Mr B... That is terrible. I was just reading a bedtime story to my little one about going to bed and thinking happy thoughts so that you could have happy dreams.
Much nicer than being told to go to bed and control your mind so you didn't dream at all.
And then thee was that whole thing about how God couldn't speak to you in your dreams. I really think a lot of stuff gets sorted outcwhile we sleep, allowing usto see things in a way we wouldn't during the day. But they told us to shut that off, leading us to feel guilt when we dreamed, and to devalue the messages from our own brain (or maybe even God) in the process.
I used to have dreams all the time about zombies attacking HQ. Gee, now it all makes sense.
Admittedly, I've been gone from The Way for some time now.
Back in the 1970s, though, it was taught that dreams, good or bad, were simply devil spirits trying to get through the "trapdoor" of your unrenewed mind. So, if you told someone you had a dream, it was like saying you were spiritually deficient and devil spirits were knocking at your door.
To expound on this a bit more, it should be noted that Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that God no longer "talks" to believers via dreams unless they are so far out of fellowship that they aren't receptive to revelation.
So, wishing someone sweet dreams would have been like saying, "I hope devil spirits try to infiltrate your thoughts tonight." :o
Seems kind of hard to take a Christian leader seriously who rejects the value of dreams, especially how soaking wet the Bible is with profound dream-related experiences.
Also, nightmares are the most important kind of dreams we can have.
Thanks for the link! I will go back and read through it.
The Way International explained away dreams by saying that it should have been translated vision. I believe they blame it on King James English.
Wouldn't surprise me.
the way international always has been more about promoting their POV of the Scriptures
more than what the Scriptures actually SAY.
These are all from the King James English, and rather obviously refute twi's drivel on this subject.
1. Daniel 2:28
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
2. Daniel 4:5
I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
3. Daniel 4:10
Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
4. Daniel 4:13
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
5. Daniel 7:1
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Lots of Christians know better than twi about dreams. Back when, I made a point of by a book by a competent
Christian on the subject, since twi never seemed to know the first thing about it.
==================================
For the curious, that book was
"Exploring the World of Dreams (A Scriptural Guide to Hearing from God in the Night Season) by Benny Thomas, Whitaker House Publishing."
Admittedly, I've been gone from The Way for some time now.
Back in the 1970s, though, it was taught that dreams, good or bad, were simply devil spirits trying to get through the "trapdoor" of your unrenewed mind. So, if you told someone you had a dream, it was like saying you were spiritually deficient and devil spirits were knocking at your door.
To expound on this a bit more, it should be noted that Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that God no longer "talks" to believers via dreams unless they are so far out of fellowship that they aren't receptive to revelation.
So, wishing someone sweet dreams would have been like saying, "I hope devil spirits try to infiltrate your thoughts tonight." :o
Funny...I recall him saying that if you dreamt you were out of alignment and harmony with God, but I don't recall what he said regarding the Apostle Paul when a soldier appeared to him in a dream and said, "Come to Macedonia and help us."
Wouldn't surprise me.
the way international always has been more about promoting their POV of the Scriptures
more than what the Scriptures actually SAY.
These are all from the King James English, and rather obviously refute twi's drivel on this subject.
1. Daniel 2:28
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
2. Daniel 4:5
I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
3. Daniel 4:10
Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
4. Daniel 4:13
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
5. Daniel 7:1
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Lots of Christians know better than twi about dreams. Back when, I made a point of by a book by a competent
Christian on the subject, since twi never seemed to know the first thing about it.
==================================
For the curious, that book was
"Exploring the World of Dreams (A Scriptural Guide to Hearing from God in the Night Season) by Benny Thomas, Whitaker House Publishing."
(I tried to find a flaw in its logic, and was unable to find one. From me, that's an endorsement.)
They always wiggled out of that by saying it was Old Testament, different administration. VP, if I remember coreectly, said God spoke to people in dreams back in the O.T. because they didn't have Christ in them so He had to. I don't agree with that, I'm just repeating what he said.
They always wiggled out of that by saying it was Old Testament, different administration. VP, if I remember coreectly, said God spoke to people in dreams back in the O.T. because they didn't have Christ in them so He had to. I don't agree with that, I'm just repeating what he said.
See that's one of the problems with these circular fargin bastages! When it's convenient they claim New Testament, when it's not the claim Old Testament and ultimately work both ends towards the middle to suit their own ends.
....heads....tails.....tail....I mean heads.....wayt, tails....
I believe that they used this resource to verify da revalation...
They always wiggled out of that by saying it was Old Testament, different administration. VP, if I remember coreectly, said God spoke to people in dreams back in the O.T. because they didn't have Christ in them so He had to. I don't agree with that, I'm just repeating what he said.
They couldn't wiggle out of the MEANINGS OF THE WORDS meaning other than what they said,
which is why I posted them.
Thanks for the link! I will go back and read through it.
The Way International explained away dreams by saying that it should have been translated vision. I believe they blame it on King James English.
Wouldn't surprise me.
the way international always has been more about promoting their POV of the Scriptures
more than what the Scriptures actually SAY.
These are all from the King James English, and rather obviously refute twi's drivel on this subject.
1. Daniel 2:28
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
2. Daniel 4:5
I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
3. Daniel 4:10
Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
4. Daniel 4:13
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
5. Daniel 7:1
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Lots of Christians know better than twi about dreams. Back when, I made a point of by a book by a competent
Christian on the subject, since twi never seemed to know the first thing about it.
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OldSkool
Eeeks - I have heard admonitions from parents to not say that to their kids but I never knew why!
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frank123lol
Geez,Inever heard that,Guess I was'nt spiritual enough.Twi must not of heard of rem sleep.
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Bolshevik
I know I was told as a kid if I had bad dreams to just "stop it". . . . uh . . okay . . . I'll just renew my mind . . . uh . .
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JavaJane
Mr B... That is terrible. I was just reading a bedtime story to my little one about going to bed and thinking happy thoughts so that you could have happy dreams.
Much nicer than being told to go to bed and control your mind so you didn't dream at all.
And then thee was that whole thing about how God couldn't speak to you in your dreams. I really think a lot of stuff gets sorted outcwhile we sleep, allowing usto see things in a way we wouldn't during the day. But they told us to shut that off, leading us to feel guilt when we dreamed, and to devalue the messages from our own brain (or maybe even God) in the process.
I used to have dreams all the time about zombies attacking HQ. Gee, now it all makes sense.
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OldSkool
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dmiller
Docvic used to teach that a lack of dreaming meant you were "standing'.
Wherever the heck that came from, I've no clue. But he taught that.
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waysider
Admittedly, I've been gone from The Way for some time now.
Back in the 1970s, though, it was taught that dreams, good or bad, were simply devil spirits trying to get through the "trapdoor" of your unrenewed mind. So, if you told someone you had a dream, it was like saying you were spiritually deficient and devil spirits were knocking at your door.
To expound on this a bit more, it should be noted that Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that God no longer "talks" to believers via dreams unless they are so far out of fellowship that they aren't receptive to revelation.
So, wishing someone sweet dreams would have been like saying, "I hope devil spirits try to infiltrate your thoughts tonight." :o
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OldSkool
Good grief, did Vicster make this crap up as he went?
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waysider
Nah, I think he got this stuff the same way he got the rest of it--------he "borrowed" it from other people.
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OldSkool
Well one thing is for sure....he sure loved his devil spirits.
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dmiller
I'm convinced that in his drambuie influenced states he found himself in on a daily basis, that he had no brain power to copy anything like that.
Just my imo, but my imo none-the-less.
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OldSkool
Well, see he was operating discerning of spirits. They were just distilled!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Sweet dreams everyone...and don't let the bed bugs bite.
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sirguessalot
Here is a recent thread on the topic.
Seems kind of hard to take a Christian leader seriously who rejects the value of dreams, especially how soaking wet the Bible is with profound dream-related experiences.
Also, nightmares are the most important kind of dreams we can have.
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OldSkool
Thanks for the link! I will go back and read through it.
The Way International explained away dreams by saying that it should have been translated vision. I believe they blame it on King James English.
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WordWolf
Wouldn't surprise me.
the way international always has been more about promoting their POV of the Scriptures
more than what the Scriptures actually SAY.
These are all from the King James English, and rather obviously refute twi's drivel on this subject.
1. Daniel 2:28
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
2. Daniel 4:5
I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
3. Daniel 4:10
Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
4. Daniel 4:13
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
5. Daniel 7:1
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Lots of Christians know better than twi about dreams. Back when, I made a point of by a book by a competent
Christian on the subject, since twi never seemed to know the first thing about it.
==================================
For the curious, that book was
"Exploring the World of Dreams (A Scriptural Guide to Hearing from God in the Night Season) by Benny Thomas, Whitaker House Publishing."
It's straightforward, sensible, and, AFAIK, completely correct.
(I tried to find a flaw in its logic, and was unable to find one. From me, that's an endorsement.)
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JeffSjo
Sheesh, I'm not even sure which direction to take this one on from, I'll go with both...
There have been conclusive studies that show that people need dreams to maintain sanity.
The bible clearly shows that dreams can be vital and even spiritual.
So on this topic Wierwille's side was unbiblical and promoted insanity. Nice going huh?
If I were to venture a guess I would say that Wierwille probably didn't like the "Vic is a monster type dreams" folks were having fairly regularly.
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Broken Arrow
Funny...I recall him saying that if you dreamt you were out of alignment and harmony with God, but I don't recall what he said regarding the Apostle Paul when a soldier appeared to him in a dream and said, "Come to Macedonia and help us."
They always wiggled out of that by saying it was Old Testament, different administration. VP, if I remember coreectly, said God spoke to people in dreams back in the O.T. because they didn't have Christ in them so He had to. I don't agree with that, I'm just repeating what he said.
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OldSkool
See that's one of the problems with these circular fargin bastages! When it's convenient they claim New Testament, when it's not the claim Old Testament and ultimately work both ends towards the middle to suit their own ends.
....heads....tails.....tail....I mean heads.....wayt, tails....
I believe that they used this resource to verify da revalation...
http://www.random.org/coins/?num=2&cur=20-novelty.decision-maker
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WordWolf
They couldn't wiggle out of the MEANINGS OF THE WORDS meaning other than what they said,
which is why I posted them.
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