Think about it for a minute...king okie was handed a gold mine!...on a silver platter!...and what does he do? He shuts down the three biggest money makers in the cult...rock of ages, the wow program and the pfal class...good move loy...next comes his rendition of Aquaman of the spirit followed by the loyalty oath demand and then his numerous affairs that were finally his undoing...what a freaking moron!
I think Moe Howard would have had better success trying to perform brain surgery...
It doesn't speak well of his credibility regarding "spiritual perception", does it?
Not hardly...Wierwille was a drunk who chased women all his life...he was lazy, insecure and egotistical...spiritual?...about as spiritual as P.T. Barnum...
...and to all you "kids" out there...I'm not just shuckin' and jivin'...I KNEW these guys! Spent time with them...Martindale had the gift of gab...but was dumber than a tub full of chicken livers.
I've seen a close second.. I had an employer who pulled support from a whole department, mainly because he thought I should not make that much money..
no kidding..
I had SEVERAL "conversations" with the numbnuts.. "now.. isn't the money we are making in this little section every bit as green as the money we earn selling second rate appliances?"
I think that the selection of L. Craig Dufus is PROOF that Wierwille never received revelation in his entire life...Wierwille, who claimed that God spoke to him as often as Beavis spoke to Butthead...and the most important decision he had to make (who's gonna replace him)..and he picks the Okie!!! God spoke to Wierwille?...right...and I'm the fifth Beatle.
How dumb was the okie?...when I look back on it all...I find his stupidity to be astounding!
any comments?
OMG - Boy have I heard the double speak on that one. Comparisons to Craig and David, the adversary taking him out because of his ministries, attacks by the adversary from within the household of Zion, Craig being fired was a major impediment removed from victory in the Allen lawsuit, etc. But one thing I have never heard a wayfer admit. That they were duped into believing that Wierwille had a special pipeline to God and he installed Craig by revelation. Craig was rotten from the beginning and Wierwille made a terrible choice. But hey, when Craig walked he walked....
I remember hearing that VP, moments before death, said that he had "made a terrible mistake" and asked God to forgive him. It was implied that this mistake was the instating of LCM as the MOG. Nice story. Whatever.
I remember hearing that VP, moments before death, said that he had "made a terrible mistake" and asked God to forgive him. It was implied that this mistake was the instating of LCM as the MOG. Nice story. Whatever.
Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake.
"Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake."
As it turns out,craig was just a dumb jock who got used,He should have walked when wierwille said you can screw any gal in the kingdom( sorry ladies,
I think that was wrong too.)The temptation was too great,Someone in the background waiting patiently to take over.His confidant,who know what he did with her,
yeech!Too many skeletons,too many I'll just go back to okie and pump gas(which we we know he did not)now he is one "working below his poistion".
What a load of mystical bull..... God showing him the error of his ways on his deathbed. It would have been more useful if God had showed him the error of his ways while he was alive and could change his evilness before he victimized all those unsuspecting ladies. And perhaps he could have showed VPW that Craig was an idiot.
Perhaps ole Vicster could have operated discerning of foreheads to know all about Craig or something....anyways.
I know!! But those people don't even believe that the old tricky Vic even raped women! Nope, not him! He was perfect and kind. Not like LCM. Nope. LCM was where ALL the problems started! VP was near perfect. He only made one mistake - putting LCM on the throne, don't you know. It must be nice for Rosie to have such a convenient scapegoat for everything. Sorry, folks! If the tree is producing rotten fruit, then look to its roots. LCM was bad, RFR is evil, and the worst was VPW. I used to think it was just LCM. Iwas one who bought the lie of the "kinder gentler" twi. It's not. It's just hidden behind a devil wearing the clothes of a sweet little old lady. If VPW gotany revelation on his deathbed it was probably a vision of the special kind of hell reserved for ministers who feed off the flock they are supposed to take care of.
Not a likely answer, but maybe it was revelation and the right choice. It might have been the method God used to bring out in the open the corruption that had become TWI and begin bringing it down.
Not a likely answer, but maybe it was revelation and the right choice. It might have been the method God used to bring out in the open the corruption that had become TWI and begin bringing it down.
I have a hard time with that explanation. It's just another variation of God making you sick so he can teach you to be thankful for good health.
"Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake."
If that's true, that may have been the only time V.P. actually received revelation from God.
But it does seem simular to some of the things that happened in the OT.
The way international has quite an ability to mimic / reference Old Testament events and practices. On one hand they talk about the New Testament being written to us, and more specific the Church epistles being specifically doctrine for this day and time. They quote Romans 15:4 saying the Old Testament (those things written aforetime) are for our learning. Then in practice they initiate law upon law, some of them are in the Old Testament and some of them are not - law of believing isn't even in the bible. They especially cling to a fabricated version of the curse of the law. In other words, this awful thing happened to you because you failed to do / did this thing that was contrary to .....
The way corpse leadership are especially adept at working people over with this sort of crap. So I am not surprised that there are rumors such as this that would compare Dr. Wierwille to a bastardized Moses like event where he got this incredible revelation on his deathbed.
Oh, it's not a rumor at least not one I've heard before, just something I've sometimes wondered about. Much like I wonder about the High priest that gave the death prophecy regarding Jesus. I have some idea's about that, but it would go in doctornal, not here, and I would want to study it out more even there. No matter what the reason for chosing Craig, it was obviously one of the worst choices he could have made for the continuation of the ministry.
No matter what the reason for chosing Craig, it was obviously one of the worst choices he could have made for the continuation of the ministry.
And I think there were a fair number of people who thought so at the time, but no one spoke up (that I know of) and said it out loud. I think that people thought that TWI was bigger than its leadership - and that might have been had it been more Christ centered. However, it wasn't, and that was really the problem all along.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Think about it for a minute...king okie was handed a gold mine!...on a silver platter!...and what does he do? He shuts down the three biggest money makers in the cult...rock of ages, the wow program and the pfal class...good move loy...next comes his rendition of Aquaman of the spirit followed by the loyalty oath demand and then his numerous affairs that were finally his undoing...what a freaking moron!
I think Moe Howard would have had better success trying to perform brain surgery...
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waysider
It doesn't speak well of his credibility regarding "spiritual perception", does it?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Not hardly...Wierwille was a drunk who chased women all his life...he was lazy, insecure and egotistical...spiritual?...about as spiritual as P.T. Barnum...
...and to all you "kids" out there...I'm not just shuckin' and jivin'...I KNEW these guys! Spent time with them...Martindale had the gift of gab...but was dumber than a tub full of chicken livers.
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Ham
I've seen a close second.. I had an employer who pulled support from a whole department, mainly because he thought I should not make that much money..
no kidding..
I had SEVERAL "conversations" with the numbnuts.. "now.. isn't the money we are making in this little section every bit as green as the money we earn selling second rate appliances?"
"well, hmmm.. I dunno..."
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OldSkool
OMG - Boy have I heard the double speak on that one. Comparisons to Craig and David, the adversary taking him out because of his ministries, attacks by the adversary from within the household of Zion, Craig being fired was a major impediment removed from victory in the Allen lawsuit, etc. But one thing I have never heard a wayfer admit. That they were duped into believing that Wierwille had a special pipeline to God and he installed Craig by revelation. Craig was rotten from the beginning and Wierwille made a terrible choice. But hey, when Craig walked he walked....
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krys
Yeah...one foot in front of the other!
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JavaJane
I remember hearing that VP, moments before death, said that he had "made a terrible mistake" and asked God to forgive him. It was implied that this mistake was the instating of LCM as the MOG. Nice story. Whatever.
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Tzaia
Only "a" terrible mistake?
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JavaJane
Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake.
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waysider
"Just a singular mistake, revealed to the MOG on his deathbed by revelation from the Almighty... Like some sort of mythic hero. The way the story was related to me, God showed him in that moment of time what would happen to his Ministry because of his (singular) mistake."
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frank123lol
As it turns out,craig was just a dumb jock who got used,He should have walked when wierwille said you can screw any gal in the kingdom( sorry ladies,
I think that was wrong too.)The temptation was too great,Someone in the background waiting patiently to take over.His confidant,who know what he did with her,
yeech!Too many skeletons,too many I'll just go back to okie and pump gas(which we we know he did not)now he is one "working below his poistion".
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nyunknown
These guys make more sence!
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excathedra
it's all very sad
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OldSkool
What a load of mystical bull..... God showing him the error of his ways on his deathbed. It would have been more useful if God had showed him the error of his ways while he was alive and could change his evilness before he victimized all those unsuspecting ladies. And perhaps he could have showed VPW that Craig was an idiot.
Perhaps ole Vicster could have operated discerning of foreheads to know all about Craig or something....anyways.
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JavaJane
I know!! But those people don't even believe that the old tricky Vic even raped women! Nope, not him! He was perfect and kind. Not like LCM. Nope. LCM was where ALL the problems started! VP was near perfect. He only made one mistake - putting LCM on the throne, don't you know. It must be nice for Rosie to have such a convenient scapegoat for everything. Sorry, folks! If the tree is producing rotten fruit, then look to its roots. LCM was bad, RFR is evil, and the worst was VPW. I used to think it was just LCM. Iwas one who bought the lie of the "kinder gentler" twi. It's not. It's just hidden behind a devil wearing the clothes of a sweet little old lady. If VPW gotany revelation on his deathbed it was probably a vision of the special kind of hell reserved for ministers who feed off the flock they are supposed to take care of.
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Keith
Not a likely answer, but maybe it was revelation and the right choice. It might have been the method God used to bring out in the open the corruption that had become TWI and begin bringing it down.
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waysider
I have a hard time with that explanation. It's just another variation of God making you sick so he can teach you to be thankful for good health.
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Broken Arrow
If that's true, that may have been the only time V.P. actually received revelation from God.
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Broken Arrow
He should've walked when he first heard Donnie Fugit teach at the University of Kansas.
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Keith
I did say it was not a likely answer.
But it does seem simular to some of the things that happened in the OT.
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OldSkool
The way international has quite an ability to mimic / reference Old Testament events and practices. On one hand they talk about the New Testament being written to us, and more specific the Church epistles being specifically doctrine for this day and time. They quote Romans 15:4 saying the Old Testament (those things written aforetime) are for our learning. Then in practice they initiate law upon law, some of them are in the Old Testament and some of them are not - law of believing isn't even in the bible. They especially cling to a fabricated version of the curse of the law. In other words, this awful thing happened to you because you failed to do / did this thing that was contrary to .....
The way corpse leadership are especially adept at working people over with this sort of crap. So I am not surprised that there are rumors such as this that would compare Dr. Wierwille to a bastardized Moses like event where he got this incredible revelation on his deathbed.
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Keith
Oh, it's not a rumor at least not one I've heard before, just something I've sometimes wondered about. Much like I wonder about the High priest that gave the death prophecy regarding Jesus. I have some idea's about that, but it would go in doctornal, not here, and I would want to study it out more even there. No matter what the reason for chosing Craig, it was obviously one of the worst choices he could have made for the continuation of the ministry.
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Tzaia
And I think there were a fair number of people who thought so at the time, but no one spoke up (that I know of) and said it out loud. I think that people thought that TWI was bigger than its leadership - and that might have been had it been more Christ centered. However, it wasn't, and that was really the problem all along.
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JavaJane
I can witness to the fact that it IS a rumor being spread inside twi... or at least has been spread in the past, because I heard it when I was in.
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