Who Are You Why Are You Here

[Shellon]

In the process of maybe finishing my degree in Human Service, piggy backed with my certification in Psych Therapies, I just got my books and syllabus for class that starts tomorrow.

Psychoanalysis 401

Now, yes, I agree.......eeeeeeeek

But I've always thought of greasespot cafe as a level of Group Therapy

Of course Freud conceived the Psychodynamic Theory. He believed that unconscious psychological forces determine thoughts, feelings and behavior. By analyzing "interactions among group members, psychodynamic therapies focus on helping individuals become aware of their needs and motivations as well as the concerns common to all group members"

Until the 40's, this appears to have been the only form of psychotherapy.

Is it, in fact, true that all human beings are capable of consciously controlling their behavior and taking responsibility for their own decision?

Do we do that for each other, enourage that? Do we even have to? Am I accountable for anyone's crap but my own? My answer is no, which might offer a problem in lack of cooperation.

Things to consider:

Instillation of hope

Information giving

Altruism

Corrective recapitulation of the primary family

Improved social skills

Imitiative behavior

Interpersonal learning

Group cohesiveness

Catharsis

Existential factors

Consider when immigrants showed up on the American shores; your family or mine. They formed groups, organizations were formed such as Hull House in Chicago, where they received assistance as to adjustment of their new lives. Also provided were Settlement Houses who assisted in securing decent housing, work, etc., living skills necessary.

Group participation was, of course, required.

Adler, one of Freud's students, embraced the idea that groups forming under a common bond were more effective than trying to go it alone. Support groups.

The birth of social work groups? Like this one?

Speaking only personally, I wandered in here by default from waydale and I've sorta stuck around (against my better judgement alot of days, but not the point). Does it serve a purpose as to my growth and betterment? As some what of a loner and a controversial individual, do I fit? Do I care if I do.

Do I contribute as to another's growth and betterment?

I'm well aware of the 'group think' problem. What of it might be good?

I've done therapy, group and otherwise; both as a client and a facilitator. It's a slipper slope with a few foot holds tossed in where we least expect them and it's always our own choice as to whether or not we accept them. That happens to be my favorite part of the process.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Shellon

[JeffSjo]

B-b-b-b-b-but...my leader said, if I don't meet my quota, uh, er, I mean win a lost soul he'll consider me unfit! :blink:

[Shellon]

Your leader was mistaken

[leafytwiglet]

Hmmm I have to think about this one a bit I started to jump in and just answer because I have been thinking a lot about this lately... but I want to frame my thoughts before I reply to this.

[Gen-2]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." I'm just here due to a connection to the Way Ministry that affected my life. But I stayed because of the kindness of so many of you.

[Shellon]

What I'm trying to ask or suggest is this.......

Is Greasespot Cafe like group therapy?

[Gen-2]

What I'm trying to ask or suggest is this.......

Is Greasespot Cafe like group therapy?

Oh that's a no-brainer,... YES! of course it is. And it's unique, and each of us knows why. Each of us paid some price as a result of however we were involved with TWI. There's an immediate acceptance of that fact here. If I were to try to explain that to anyone that had no connection to the Way, I'd have to tell them everything that the Way was before they'd even begin to understand that I have this slow healing open wound. Sure, sure - just move on, I know.... But don't do that with other people - explain the Way. Here I don't have to. Most of you are more familiar with it than I am.

Are you planning to send me a Bill for this thread? ;)

[bowtwi]

What I'm trying to ask or suggest is this.......

Is Greasespot Cafe like group therapy?

Yes.

Oh that's a no-brainer,... YES! of course it is. And it's unique, and each of us knows why. Each of us paid some price as a result of however we were involved with TWI. There's an immediate acceptance of that fact here. If I were to try to explain that to anyone that had no connection to the Way, I'd have to tell them everything that the Way was before they'd even begin to understand that I have this slow healing open wound. Sure, sure - just move on, I know.... But don't do that with other people - explain the Way. Here I don't have to. Most of you are more familiar with it than I am.

Are you planning to send me a Bill for this thread?

Don't be surprised if she does!

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I suppose that GS is therapeutic, though many of our "practitioners" have widely differing styles!

"Awwww, we love you!"

"Suck it up, Whiner!"

"VPW was a father figure for the girls he used."

"Don't blame TWI for your choices."

"Let it out."

"Let it go."

:) George

[Shellon]

Amen George and hello, how the heck are you?

Is it the Dilbert Effect where managers, for instance, place the least productive or most problematic employee in the least exposed position where s/he can do the least amount of damage? It's an odd form of Psychotherapy to consider that one, although I can see it, here and elsewhere.

My personal fave, actually, at least some day. Right now, I'm the boss and only employee, so that's kinda weird sometimes...

Or the Hawthorn Effect where clients (or employees since I've gone to that context here it seems) modify their behavior and attitudes because they know they are being measured.

I'll ever be thankful for this joint for the platform it has and will continue to provide but yeah, I agree with what you've said.

I spent some time recently hanging out at Al-Anon to gain coping skills with my oldest's daughters drinking problem(s) and felt sort of in group therapy sometimes, but it did help me to see others in like situations, suffering the same kinds of losses and emotions and speaking the same questions, seeking the same answers.

Some kind of comfort, yes. Which is, of course, the premise to group therapy; make those involved feel less alone, less isolated, less vulnerable and more "whew, it's not just me!"

[soul searcher]

Is it, in fact, true that all human beings are capable of consciously controlling their behavior and taking responsibility for their own decision?

If you ask a psychologist from the "radical behaviorist" school the answer is no: we are basically just pigeons in a Skinner box. Thought, conscious or unconscious, plays a very small role in behavior.

[Lifted Up]

Thought, conscious or unconscious, plays a very small role in behavior.

Does that mean we are basically "reactors"? (not the nuke kind). Just respond to others?

I think this pigeon will fly out of that box and drop something on the nearest radical behaviourist psychologist.

I think we are too complicated for such a generalization, just my uneducated (in that field) opinion.

[soul searcher]

Does that mean we are basically "reactors"? (not the nuke kind). Just respond to others?

To various stimuli, yes. You got it.

I think we are too complicated for such a generalization...

So do I and scores of other psychologists. But, regardless of what you think of B.F. Skinner, operant conditioning (together with cognitive therapy) has been shown, both experimentally and in practice, to be the most effective method of learning new behaviors and extiguishing others.

Edited March 25, 2010 by soul searcher

[Shellon]

I think this pigeon will fly out of that box and drop something on the nearest radical behaviourist psychologist.

Hi Billy, wow I"ve missed your face around here !

And what you said there, may I just simply say...........

I do think that us human beings do, in fact, react and while it's not always pretty and it can even be very messy, it's normal. I am learning lately that while I might react to something in that manner, I have got to stop and collect my self and do some painful "oh shi+" time and figure out why.

Hopefully I do that better and better all the time and even get it right once in awhile.

In therapy sessions, often that kind of thing is vital to getting it out there and said and then can be taken on fully to the end of understanding for all involved.

Painful process, to be sure.

I'm reminded lately, too, of the "meet people where they are" and I don't know that to be any specific method or theory, just a note to self and hopefully to my clients if I'm worth a damn as their facilitator.

I'm also learning the hardest way that I get, now, why most shrinks are required to see a shrink before they can practice. Sure can't hurt !

We here at the 'ol cafe are, or have the potential to be very valuable for and to each other. It's in the context, it's in the situation, it's in the need and the specific charge isn't it?

Absolutely I do think we human beings benefit much more with both cognitive AND behavioral therapy coupled, no doubt whatsoever.

The most painful words to me about 9 years ago, but the words I learned the most from were a fellow student of this stuff who had the courage and said to me "you can't decide to walk the talk or talk the walk, please make up your mind or better yet, do both !"

I actually did write it down exactly as he said it. I've never forgotten it and I even get it right from time to time; that's where the value lies for me.

[Lifted Up]

To various stimuli, yes. You got it.

So do I and scores of other psychologists. But, regardless of what you think of B.F. Skinner, operant conditioning (together with cognitive therapy) has been shown, both experimentally and in practice, to be the most effective method of learning new behaviors and extiguishing others.

Okay, I don't get it all but I certainly have no grounds (knowledge) to argue. Presumably that is not what others tried to do for (to) me in my deprogramming eons ago, because it didn't work very well. Thanks for responding.

Hi Billy, wow I"ve missed your face around here !

And what you said there, may I just simply say...........

I do think that us human beings do, in fact, react and while it's not always pretty and it can even be very messy, it's normal. I am learning lately that while I might react to something in that manner, I have got to stop and collect my self and do some painful "oh shi+" time and figure out why.

Hopefully I do that better and better all the time and even get it right once in awhile.

Well, if I find my face, I'll bring it here...

I have no argument with the idea that most things we do are a reaction. Even an author or composer working on something original is surely reacting in some way. But we can react with or without thinking, feeling, etc.

[Shellon]

. But we can react with or without thinking, feeling, etc.

Oh I agree with that whole heartedly, yes !

I just reacted without thinking, without stopping and thinking some more and even more "am I sure" and hurt someone I love. It wasn't with out feeling, however or without being sure of what I thought I believed at the time. Regardless it caused great damage that I'll forever remember and hope to not repeat in our relationship.

So, yes, it can do more harm than good. Even a good therapist can do alot o harm if s/he and the client are not locked in pretty tightly, moving in the same direction.

It's a tenious balance on the best day.

I hope we learn and do better and as I've said about my life, I hope I get it right more than not.

Communication, thinking through as much as possible, everything and hanging back sometimes til we react, YES~! And now I can say I'm getting a huge dose of remembering that acting and reacting are two very different animals.

"It's all in the going......."

Edited March 25, 2010 by Shellon

[Gen-2]

Oh I agree with that whole heartedly, yes !

I just reacted without thinking, without stopping and thinking some more and even more "am I sure" and hurt someone I love. It wasn't with out feeling, however or without being sure of what I thought I believed at the time. Regardless it caused great damage that I'll forever remember and hope to not repeat in our relationship.

So, yes, it can do more harm than good. Even a good therapist can do alot o harm if s/he and the client are not locked in pretty tightly, moving in the same direction.

It's a tenious balance on the best day.

I hope we learn and do better and as I've said about my life, I hope I get it right more than not.

Communication, thinking through as much as possible, everything and hanging back sometimes til we react, YES~! And now I can say I'm getting a huge dose of remembering that acting and reacting are two very different animals.

"It's all in the going......."

Steve L has a thread going over in Doctrine regarding how we look at Bible passages. In it he mentions the biblical use of the word Heart. It's a funny word heart. It has many meanings and you can have fun with it, even if a situation is serious. For instance, did you know you could break someone's heart by stepping on their toes?

We react from our hearts, not our heads. Sometimes we tell ourselves "I should have known better." if what we said turned out to be ill considered. Other times only our hearts can communicate what our minds fail to conceive, and yes,.... it can be deceitful above all things, as well. Our hearts tend to disregard all the rules at times and get us into trouble, but if your heart is in the right place, it's a beautiful thing, but that takes more than kittens and snowflakes, that takes love.

[Broken Arrow]

To various stimuli, yes. You got it.

So do I and scores of other psychologists. But, regardless of what you think of B.F. Skinner, operant conditioning (together with cognitive therapy) has been shown, both experimentally and in practice, to be the most effective method of learning new behaviors and extiguishing others.

What does "operant conditioning" mean? I realize it's probably an entire discipline in itself. I just want to get a general idea of what you're referring to if you don't mind.

[soul searcher]

What does "operant conditioning" mean? I realize it's probably an entire discipline in itself.

Operant conditioning is the use of rewards and punishments to modify behavior. Simple example: if you tell your dog to sit, and he sits, and then you give him a biscuit -- that's operant conditioning using positive reinforcement.

If your child comes home with failing grades on his report card and you withold priveleges as a result -- that's operant conditioning using negative reinforcement (the withholding a positive reinforcer).

If you come home from work and your dog has chewed up your $100 shoes and you whack him (gently) wih a rolled up-newspaper - that's operant conditioning using punishment.

Classical conditioning is a different type of behavior modification that uses the association (spatial or temporal) of a stimulus with a response to modify beavior. It was originally documented by the Russian scientist Ivan Pavlov, who noticed that his dogs would begin to salivate without actually giving them food by simply presenting another stimulus repeatedly together with the food. He would sound a bell (I think) at mealtime and eventually the dogs would salivate every time they heard the bell, whether it was actually mealtime or not.

Hope that helps.

Edited March 26, 2010 by soul searcher

[WordWolf]

the way international denied all of us-when in- the information to fairly decide

for ourselves, and denied us the venue to communicate for ourselves.

Thus, ANY venue where we NOW can do so can be seen as "therapeutic."

The GSC is many things to many people. It is an information resource,

a social hangout, a place to speak one's mind, a place to vent one's spleen,

and many other things.

Many people have stayed for a time and moved on. They either got what they wanted

from the GSC, or as much as they were willing to get, or decided they would

benefit more from spending their time elsewhere. That's fine. There's no

categorical imperative requiring GSC attendance. I enjoy socializing here between

informing the new arrivals, and the occasional arrival of news that we still haven't

heard.

[act2]

Shellon, I originally signed up with GS Cafe to find out about the Martindale lawsuit, etc, even though I had been out for about 8 years at that time. I thought I escaped unscathed (after 19 years!!) but I realized time and again how The Way International ripped me off of my life, my time, my money, and many other things, including happiness!! But, guess what, I got all that back and more now!!!

I stick around for the latest news about The Way International, to pray for those in need in the prayer forum, and many other reasons, actually.

I haven't posted as much as I used to because my life has become more hectic in the past 3 years since my great-nephew bombarded my life with his presence, his beautiful smile, and his love. Not to mention working toward my college degree!!!

I want to thank you publicly for your encouraging support in my English essays. You are a special blessing to many, and I certainly include my little ole self in that group!!!

Edited to correct the number of years I had been 'out' : - ))

Edited March 26, 2010 by act2

[Shellon]

Not to mention working toward my college degree!!!

I want to thank you publicly for your encouraging support in my English essays. You are a special blessing to many, and I certainly include my little ole self in that group!!!

You are very welcome act 2 ! It's been such a joy of mine to read them to be allowed in that part of your own journey and I get to apply stuff you learn to my own, so not a bad combo gig huh?

Congratulations, in advance, for your strength and determination at working toward your college degree. I know all too well what a challenge that is and know the courage it takes and the fight it can be to hang in there. I can't wait to celebrate with you ! !

As I've said, I landed her by default after wandering into Waydale in 1999, my goal was to connect with my husband's family when they might find the guts to talk to me. That never happened there or here, but friendships have been forged and experiences have gone on that I wouldn't change for a thing. I've been able to hang out here and think and consider and wonder and make my own choices about, because someone else had the courage to tell their story or answer a question; alot of the time I didn't know I had the question.

My needs, as far as a group therapy setting might go, are not about what TWI did to me, although I suppose they did 'do' those things. But my reality is that they didn't do any more to me than others before them or some since. I've said TWI was the best and worst thing I ever did and I don't have to many 'oh crap' moments about that time.

As I wander around in this life, I am so very curious and want to know everything ! I want to ask questions and happen upon the right people who will be tough enough to not be afraid, who will actually really honestly truly tell me. That has happened often here.

If I never returned to greasespot again, I still hold dear and precious the things I would take from it and I hope that for those souls with enough guts and a little honesty to seek theraputic help, they find such a setting as well.

[nyunknown]

Well why I am here. To find the truth, and I apply the quote From the book written by Master Sun Tzu. The supreme art of war is not how many battles you are in, but to win the war without fighting.

[Shellon]

I understand that this place is not like intense therapy with the desired results of same.

And the term PsychoTherapy makes the beginning dynamic of it sound so distasteful, doesn't it? Hell, I was recently compared to a psycho, so I understand the bristleing at that prefix in that regard.

Doesn't exactly make any of us seek out or desire or want to, much less feel all warm and fuzzy about sharing our lives, does it?

But we here do offer each other a valuable service if we choose and if we choose to accept it. The best part, for me at least, is that it can be given or taken in whatever dosage one chooses for them at any given time.

Not so bad

If I were to call TWI and tell them I want to go back to their fellowships, would anyone here have the stones to try to help me, have the courage to love me, have the strength to tell me the truth?

Uhhuh, see what I mean?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Shellon

[GeorgeStGeorge]

This reminds me of a cartoon that appeared in a freshman brochure when I was at MIT (almost FOUR DECADES ago!!!): A man is standing at in Information booth and asks, "Who am I; where am I going; and when am I going to get there?"

Now, if I could just remember where I put my keys...

George