I remember leaving and just being dumbfounded....totally dumbfounded so much I would come home from work and sit in a rocking chair and just try and digest all of it....questions flowed through my mind...Did I just lose 13 years of my life for nothing...what about God now? What was true and what was false about the bible? And how could I possibly sort ALL of that out? It was just hard to process it all in my head. I was angered because I thought the best years of my life had been taken from me...I had NO IDEA how to function now. What do you do if you don't go to twig? What do you do if there are no advances to go to or Joyful Noise to listen to? And what about all those tapes...what would happen to me for leaving? I wasn't sure about anything anymore and when I was in I was sure about Everything... I had all the answers, I had a purpose, moving the word, and I knew My God....Now, it had all fallen apart... I literally did not know how to function outside of the TWI culture...cause now I was in "their" world...all the people we had blasted because they were not with "Us" Who do you trust? Where do you go? How do you think? Totally just crushed me.
So very interesting to me that this exactly describes how I felt when I left the first meeting announcing the Allen lawsuit, went straight to my computer, and tried to find any information on it that I could, and found WayDale. I read for a couple of hours, then just walked outside in the darkness, leaned on my car, and cried. Nearly 20 years of my life... the prime of my adulthood... had all been based on a hollow lie.
POP had happened years before, and I was in twi at the time, but I was just a newby, far removed from HQ, heard everything second, third, fourth-hand, almost walked away, but got talked out of it to the point that I thought I could help be part of the solution by signing up for the way corps. (big DUHHHHH on that one!!)
So I am curious now because I left before the POOP Paper... and I just read it all (Okay it took me a couple of tries to get through it all but I did... My memory of Geer is ROA 79 and him running around The grounds carrying a gun. and generally being a self important Donkey!
So that has to be the most self absorbed piece of baloney I ever read. and has anyone considered that Geer maybe helped things along for VP...
Of course he was sick with his cancer but he went down pretty fast while at Gartmoore... didn't anyone find that suspicious.
and why did the board of Trustees let him take over like that... After hearing that piece of dung of a letter.
I find it facinating that he felt he was the person to take VP's place and his presence was one of the reasons so many people walked away from TWI... Thank Goodness!
Welll we did all I find it suspicious that only Greer was there for VP to tell all this stuff to... that VP wanted done... that VP would tell Geer he was the only person in the whoole Ministry that was still on the word wHEn clearly from his OWN account of daily life at Gartmoor suggests otherwise... and has anyone ever wondered why things didn't work out with that Corps person who was there..... what did the Corps person see that their stay became an issue.
Oh that POOP Paper just brings lots of questions to my mind and I find the whole story of him having to do everything so much baloney and his whole carrying on a lot of self serving BS.
Please note I am not saying VP was Holy and getting Rev from God I am saying he wasn't and even with out REV from God I find it difficult to believe that he ever told Geer any of this stuff Geer was putting out.
IT lends more to the whole notion that Geer was blackmailing the BOT. Why else would they do this.
How long after VP passed did Geer present his POOP Paper to the BOT.
So I am curious now because I left before the POOP Paper... and I just read it all (Okay it took me a couple of tries to get through it all but I did... My memory of Geer is ROA 79 and him running around The grounds carrying a gun. and generally being a self important Donkey!
So that has to be the most self absorbed piece of baloney I ever read. and has anyone considered that Geer maybe helped things along for VP...
Of course he was sick with his cancer but he went down pretty fast while at Gartmoore... didn't anyone find that suspicious.
and why did the board of Trustees let him take over like that... After hearing that piece of dung of a letter.
I find it facinating that he felt he was the person to take VP's place and his presence was one of the reasons so many people walked away from TWI... Thank Goodness!
leafy......your questions are the ones that perplex many. In my opinion, the only way to grasp HOW THIS HAPPENED is to give it context.
Brief Background:
1) Chris Geer (and wife) were 7th Corps .... and spent countless hours while inrez studying every intimate detail of vpw & mrs. wierwille's lives to zealously become vpw's bus driver and companion.
2) With calculating precision, geer became fiercely loyal to wierwille and perceived himself as the most dedicated and disciplined disciple of this "man of God."
3) On many occasions, geer expressed disdain for his "brothers and sisters in Christ" who had forsaken wierwille and/or disagreed with wierwille's policies and direction.
4) Geer and wierwille shared the same narcisstic views of self. Emboldened with each passing year, geer grafted wierwille's mannerisms, tastes, dog-training, book reading, paranoia, etc....geer was vp's right hand.
5) In 1981, wierwille settled on martindale as president-elect of twi. Geer, who was adept at languages, was moving towards European Corps and Gartmore CEO status. Geer was ordained in 1982 in a private ceremony.
6) Wierwille cried at this private ordination ceremony like he was parting with an old friend. Other than the death of brother, H.E. or Ermal......wierwille's affection for geer was startling.
7) After martindale gains the presidency, wierwille takes his place in "respected retirement." As wierwille became less and less relevant....imo, vpw WANTED THE SPOTLIGHT ONCE AGAIN.
8) As the trustees treated wierwille as emeritus retiree......some believe that wierwille stewed over this. With the cancer and eye removal, vpw NEEDED geer's assurrances and adoration more than ever!!
9) Geer's rise to prominence was EXCLUSIVELY ATTACHED TO WIERWILLE. It really was no surprise that geer rose to become "the keeper of the wierwille flame and guardian of the man of God legacy."
10) Clearly, geer had significant knowledge of craig's, don's and howard's sexual predation and mistresses....and knew this information would be a bombshell to their lives, reputations, and twi. Geer had less to lose.
11) Geer had calculated well.......and the trustees folded, giving him the stage in August 1986 to read the partriarch paper to the corps at Corps Week.
12) Once the trap was set..........geer made every effort for this long-awaited POWER GRAB.
One should never underestimate the striking power of a snake.
Thanks Skyrider I just find it all fascinating... IT has taken me a while here on GS to sort out what I saw while I was there and what I heard and what I heard from other people and connecting up the dots of all that with what happened after we left.
I was having alot of second thoughts about the Ministry by the time my husband and I left in early 83. I was having real issues with the way everyone was just following along with out questioning stuff. And I was also having trouble with the notion that only TWI knew it all .. There was also the rising paranoia about devil spirits and the push against the Gays in our area(Idaho).
A lot of this stuff the POOP Paper and Martindales rein of terror are just stunning to me... but when I think back over what I saw and heard and put it into context with this stuff.. it is enlightening.
I am so glad we left when we did but I am seeing more and more that even if we had not left when we did it was only a matter of time.
Very good analysis Skyrider. I do have one question re the power grab.
Why did Chris durng corps week after POP was read keep running back and forth to Gartmore, or demanding people come to him? Then there would be rumors - he's here, or no, he's not, yes he is so and so saw him - oh well, he left.
If he wanted power he could have grabbed it right then and there. He had the trustees where he wanted them, and there were 5 at this point, he could have simply had them vote Craig out. He didn't do that. I think if he had, right then and there, come out and announced the news, gave a loving little speech, all would have gone for it.
I felt later, he and LCM were in a struggle for control of HQ.
By not grabbing it then - he forever lost.
So, why do you think he played games and didn't strike then? After that, people had time to go home and think and it would not have worked.
I am so glad we left when we did but I am seeing more and more that even if we had not left when we did it was only a matter of time.
leafty......smart move.
As I've posted many times.......there was a growing number exiting twi around 1979-1982. Corps leadership, 4th, 5th and 6th corps and followers alike were moving away from twi's lockstep march to conformity. Some were going back to college, or business ventures........I remember talking with Mike Sm!th, 1st Corps, before he left in 1982 after Living Victoriously and he'd seen enough too.
When P.O.P. was written/read, the average schmoe, like myself, had no idea the depth of depravity Wierwille was entrenched in. But, Geer knew. He, in fact, was instrumental, not only in fueling the depravity, but, also, and perhaps more importantly, in helping to create this false persona of Wierwille being some "great one". So, while he (Geer) is reading all these accolades that appear in P.O.P., he is simultaneously aware of the falsehood he is presenting. He knows he is lying through his teeth. How could anyone possibly now give an ounce of credibility to anything at all that this man might say?
Very good analysis Skyrider. I do have one question re the power grab.
Why did Chris durng corps week after POP was read keep running back and forth to Gartmore, or demanding people come to him? Then there would be rumors - he's here, or no, he's not, yes he is so and so saw him - oh well, he left.
If he wanted power he could have grabbed it right then and there. He had the trustees where he wanted them, and there were 5 at this point, he could have simply had them vote Craig out. He didn't do that. I think if he had, right then and there, come out and announced the news, gave a loving little speech, all would have gone for it.
I felt later, he and LCM were in a struggle for control of HQ.
By not grabbing it then - he forever lost.
So, why do you think he played games and didn't strike then? After that, people had time to go home and think and it would not have worked.
Sunesis........in the essence of the patriarch paper, geer DID DEMAND that the trustees be voted out. With convincing evidence, geer HELD "the last will and testament of the man of God" and no one was able to dispute it. He built his case........he held the stage........the trustees had SIGNED and AGREED to its validity......and it upstaged the trustees fate SEALING THEIR DEMISE.
Conniving and calculating........geer assigned Johnnie T. and Ricardo C. to the trustee level. They reported back to geer......daily (??) Every trustee meeting was to include Johnnie and Ricardo. In every sense, these guys were like "spies in the white house."
Geer wouldn't return Craig's phone calls. Geer talked privately with Donna....adding schism. The trustees were on their heels and Geer relished in the spotlight.
The trustees took priority steps to have Trailer #5 as a way builders project.....designated for Chris Geer. This was to be his trailer whenever he came to hq. With new carpet, new furnishings, european a/v fittings.....all for the expressed purpose for geer's comfort. CHRIS GEER NEVER STAYED IN THAT TRAILER ONE NIGHT.
Geer gave the trustees the cold shoulder on every turn. Rumors swirled. Division worsened. Limb coordinators were flying to see Geer. Martindale was snubbed by corps leadership at major meetings.
Limb ccordinators were staying on twi's payroll.......with ALLEGIANCE to geer. Some were withholding abs, some were sending donations to geer, some were pocketing because the ship was going down. Many scoff at martindale's "loyalty letter"........but he really didn't have a choice. Twi was badly hemmorhaging money and people.
Imo......geer had read enough books to know stealth and mutiny, etc. Once set in motion, he knew that it was only a matter of time. Lots of things here........but geer and martindale couldn't co-exist on the same continent. Was this geer's dagger to martindale's ministry? Was this the ultimate gotcha?
Has anyone mentioned yet that VP was NOT a "patriarch"?
That was one of Martindale's main points of rebuttal in his "Galatians Tapes", that "Patriarch" was used sparingly in the bible and Wierwille met none of the qualifications.
Geer gave the trustees the cold shoulder on every turn. Rumors swirled. Division worsened. Limb coordinators were flying to see Geer. Martindale was snubbed by corps leadership at major meetings.
Limb coordinators were staying on twi's payroll.......with ALLEGIANCE to geer. Some were withholding abs, some were sending donations to geer, some were pocketing because the ship was going down. Many scoff at martindale's "loyalty letter"........but he really didn't have a choice. Twi was badly hemmorhaging money and people.
Interesting statement. I've brought this up before and gotten smacked around for it on occasion. Martindale was the titular and legal head of The Way International, I've never thought that it was unreasonable for him to ask people to make a choice between standing with him or standing with Geer.
Interesting statement. I've brought this up before and gotten smacked around for it on occasion. Martindale was the titular and legal head of The Way International, I've never thought that it was unreasonable for him to ask people to make a choice between standing with him or standing with Geer.
oakspear.....I've gotten smacked around for it, as well.
Martindale didn't have much of a choice. After about 18 months of keeping those Limb guys on twi's payroll, their ALLEGIANCE to geer was stiffening.
At the time, I was in Indiana.....and the Limb Coordinator had that big limb home with another couple on part-time twi staff staying in the little house on the property. All the ppfal material was boxed and stored in the secondary garage. The limb guy's boat was in the main garage.....where volunteer staff helped in its restoration.
The Indiana limb guy had Geer newsletters near the photocopy machine. All promotional material was for Geer material. And yet, THE INDIANA LIMB COORDINATOR DID NOT WANT TO GET OFF TWI PAYROLL. Martindale's letter stopped the hypocrisy.
Why did Chris durng corps week after POP was read keep running back and forth to Gartmore, or demanding people come to him? Then there would be rumors - he's here, or no, he's not, yes he is so and so saw him - oh well, he left.
If he wanted power he could have grabbed it right then and there. He had the trustees where he wanted them, and there were 5 at this point, he could have simply had them vote Craig out. He didn't do that. I think if he had, right then and there, come out and announced the news, gave a loving little speech, all would have gone for it.
sunesis.....one more point.
Imo....geer favored the "administrator approach" similar to rosalie. Had Geer demanded at this 1986 Corps Week an overthrow of power, Geer would have been confronted with a tsunami outcry of rebellion. Perhaps, the corps would have stormed a mass exodus overnight? How many leaders would have broken ranks? What if Geer could not contain the anger? What about the rock of ages in a few days?
Geer took the path of least resistance. He came prepared to read his paper.....and split. A little leaven of suspicion, leaveneth the whole lump.
Besides.....did Geer plan in advance to acquire the copyright of pfal materials? Back at Gartmore, Geer already had free labor with the European inrez corps. Did he also have the idea of setting up a franchise ministry? Would this be the power grab that he savored?
Good points Skyrider. I remember our corps meeting after that corps week when we were back home. I was not a geerite, nor was I following LCM, or anyone at the point. I was on my way out. But they were talking about how great it was Geer had the copyrights. There were about 20 of us there.
I looked around and said after all the talking was done, since I was a lowly peon and not a corps honcho all the bigwigs went first. But I said, did you ever think he's going to start his own ministry, now that he has the copyrights? I also said, you know, he stated that 90 percent of the corps is possessed. I look around this room, that means 18 of you should be possessed - sorry, but I don't think you are. Do not follow this man. He is not a nice person or what you think he is. They did not like my talk.
I later found it was taped and the limb leader who was a Geer follower was not happy with my comments. After that, none of the corps would talk to me, or if they did it was grudgingly. They all went after Geer and became unbelieveably legalistic.
But, ok, I see, he needed to get the copyrights. He needed to get things in place, ducks lined up. I still think, if he were as smart as he thought he was, he should have made his move then. He could have gotten LCM out. Sure, maybe he would have lost people, but HQ would have been his and many more than you think would have stayed.
Over time, with LCM there, he lost the chance and LCM became more ensconced and the wagons circled around him. Geer would never be able to dislodge him. The moment was past. I guess that's it, he was an administrator - not a political player. He could have "won" if he had played his cards right.
But, ok, I see, he needed to get the copyrights. He needed to get things in place, ducks lined up. I still think, if he were as smart as he thought he was, he should have made his move then. He could have gotten LCM out. Sure, maybe he would have lost people, but HQ would have been his and many more than you think would have stayed.
Over time, with LCM there, he lost the chance and LCM became more ensconced and the wagons circled around him. Geer would never be able to dislodge him. The moment was past. I guess that's it, he was an administrator - not a political player. He could have "won" if he had played his cards right.
Yeah......I see what you're saying, but the question remains -- "Did Geer want to overthrow the trustees and become the next twi president?" Sure, he and Barb could have moved into the Corps Chalet and he could have got the trains to run on time and all....but was that what he wanted? I don't know, but I tend to think not.
The last 20 years seems to point to the fact that Geer was little more than a businessman. Where was all that "revival" of getting the fire of the Word inside again? Where was the great depth of truth and application that resided in Geer? Why have so many US corps leaders abandoned the geerite movement?
Imo......geer wasn't the spiritual man that he thought he was. Sure, he could have reinstigated the wierwille mantra of classes, classses, etc.......like rosalie. But, so what? Any administrator could do that.
Even Geer's approach was a business model to Christianity.......franchise his classes. After all those years of serving alongside wierwille, THIS was the best he could do? THIS was his "spiritual" wisdom? His pathetic response shouldn't surprise any one....it was simply the wierwille class mode on overdrive. Yet, geer was taking it beyond the wierwille pail. Extremely impersonal and disconnected. Cut out the overhead. Cut out the root local. Cut off the major payroll expense. Franchise it....and count the money rolling in.
I think the franchise concept was part of Wierwille's business plan all along. What was Fellow Laborers if not a franchised version of the Corps? It just took Geer a while to figure out how to cash in on it himself.
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newlife
Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so. Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was
Sunesis
I think in some ways, Hiway29's post sums it up for me. Also, I had seen CG in action - literally hissing at a woman and going non-stop, the hate was vile. I wondered, what is going on here? It the
Sunesis
I did really say that. You should have seen their expressions, everyone kind of glanced at everyone else, little brains whirring... who here is possessed??? Not me, not me!!! I then said, I don't
TheHighWay
So very interesting to me that this exactly describes how I felt when I left the first meeting announcing the Allen lawsuit, went straight to my computer, and tried to find any information on it that I could, and found WayDale. I read for a couple of hours, then just walked outside in the darkness, leaned on my car, and cried. Nearly 20 years of my life... the prime of my adulthood... had all been based on a hollow lie.
POP had happened years before, and I was in twi at the time, but I was just a newby, far removed from HQ, heard everything second, third, fourth-hand, almost walked away, but got talked out of it to the point that I thought I could help be part of the solution by signing up for the way corps. (big DUHHHHH on that one!!)
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excathedra
oh i just can't shut up when it comes to the poo poo paper and the pathetic pervet who penned it
my friend, you CANNOT put "dazzle" or "brilliance" for that matter in the same context as psycho geer
and this piece of poop was what you would call a prck who definitely aided and abetted the #1 moggie prck
also, he was caught (fac, don't care if you believe it) with someone other than his wife while in residence in the 7th corps
big surprise
well the surpise is who would want him, but the same thing goes for veepster
oh yeah, i be waiting for his advanced class
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Ham
but.. there are those who seem to have the unparalleled skill of polishing or gold plating a turd..
" a turd by any other name is a turd, the same.."
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leafytwiglet
So I am curious now because I left before the POOP Paper... and I just read it all (Okay it took me a couple of tries to get through it all but I did... My memory of Geer is ROA 79 and him running around The grounds carrying a gun. and generally being a self important Donkey!
So that has to be the most self absorbed piece of baloney I ever read. and has anyone considered that Geer maybe helped things along for VP...
Of course he was sick with his cancer but he went down pretty fast while at Gartmoore... didn't anyone find that suspicious.
and why did the board of Trustees let him take over like that... After hearing that piece of dung of a letter.
I find it facinating that he felt he was the person to take VP's place and his presence was one of the reasons so many people walked away from TWI... Thank Goodness!
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waysider
We sure were a gullible bunch, though, weren't we?
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leafytwiglet
Welll we did all
I find it suspicious that only Greer was there for VP to tell all this stuff to... that VP wanted done... that VP would tell Geer he was the only person in the whoole Ministry that was still on the word wHEn clearly from his OWN account of daily life at Gartmoor suggests otherwise... and has anyone ever wondered why things didn't work out with that Corps person who was there..... what did the Corps person see that their stay became an issue.
Oh that POOP Paper just brings lots of questions to my mind and I find the whole story of him having to do everything so much baloney and his whole carrying on a lot of self serving BS.
Please note I am not saying VP was Holy and getting Rev from God I am saying he wasn't and even with out REV from God I find it difficult to believe that he ever told Geer any of this stuff Geer was putting out.
IT lends more to the whole notion that Geer was blackmailing the BOT. Why else would they do this.
How long after VP passed did Geer present his POOP Paper to the BOT.
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skyrider
leafy......your questions are the ones that perplex many. In my opinion, the only way to grasp HOW THIS HAPPENED is to give it context.
Brief Background:
1) Chris Geer (and wife) were 7th Corps .... and spent countless hours while inrez studying every intimate detail of vpw & mrs. wierwille's lives to zealously become vpw's bus driver and companion.
2) With calculating precision, geer became fiercely loyal to wierwille and perceived himself as the most dedicated and disciplined disciple of this "man of God."
3) On many occasions, geer expressed disdain for his "brothers and sisters in Christ" who had forsaken wierwille and/or disagreed with wierwille's policies and direction.
4) Geer and wierwille shared the same narcisstic views of self. Emboldened with each passing year, geer grafted wierwille's mannerisms, tastes, dog-training, book reading, paranoia, etc....geer was vp's right hand.
5) In 1981, wierwille settled on martindale as president-elect of twi. Geer, who was adept at languages, was moving towards European Corps and Gartmore CEO status. Geer was ordained in 1982 in a private ceremony.
6) Wierwille cried at this private ordination ceremony like he was parting with an old friend. Other than the death of brother, H.E. or Ermal......wierwille's affection for geer was startling.
7) After martindale gains the presidency, wierwille takes his place in "respected retirement." As wierwille became less and less relevant....imo, vpw WANTED THE SPOTLIGHT ONCE AGAIN.
8) As the trustees treated wierwille as emeritus retiree......some believe that wierwille stewed over this. With the cancer and eye removal, vpw NEEDED geer's assurrances and adoration more than ever!!
9) Geer's rise to prominence was EXCLUSIVELY ATTACHED TO WIERWILLE. It really was no surprise that geer rose to become "the keeper of the wierwille flame and guardian of the man of God legacy."
10) Clearly, geer had significant knowledge of craig's, don's and howard's sexual predation and mistresses....and knew this information would be a bombshell to their lives, reputations, and twi. Geer had less to lose.
11) Geer had calculated well.......and the trustees folded, giving him the stage in August 1986 to read the partriarch paper to the corps at Corps Week.
12) Once the trap was set..........geer made every effort for this long-awaited POWER GRAB.
One should never underestimate the striking power of a snake.
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leafytwiglet
Thanks Skyrider I just find it all fascinating... IT has taken me a while here on GS to sort out what I saw while I was there and what I heard and what I heard from other people and connecting up the dots of all that with what happened after we left.
I was having alot of second thoughts about the Ministry by the time my husband and I left in early 83. I was having real issues with the way everyone was just following along with out questioning stuff. And I was also having trouble with the notion that only TWI knew it all .. There was also the rising paranoia about devil spirits and the push against the Gays in our area(Idaho).
A lot of this stuff the POOP Paper and Martindales rein of terror are just stunning to me... but when I think back over what I saw and heard and put it into context with this stuff.. it is enlightening.
I am so glad we left when we did but I am seeing more and more that even if we had not left when we did it was only a matter of time.
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Sunesis
Very good analysis Skyrider. I do have one question re the power grab.
Why did Chris durng corps week after POP was read keep running back and forth to Gartmore, or demanding people come to him? Then there would be rumors - he's here, or no, he's not, yes he is so and so saw him - oh well, he left.
If he wanted power he could have grabbed it right then and there. He had the trustees where he wanted them, and there were 5 at this point, he could have simply had them vote Craig out. He didn't do that. I think if he had, right then and there, come out and announced the news, gave a loving little speech, all would have gone for it.
I felt later, he and LCM were in a struggle for control of HQ.
By not grabbing it then - he forever lost.
So, why do you think he played games and didn't strike then? After that, people had time to go home and think and it would not have worked.
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waysider
Has anyone mentioned yet that VP was NOT a "patriarch"?
He was just some charismatic, power hungry, drunken sexual predator.
Doesn't it make the whole premise of the paper a rather moot point?
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skyrider
leafty......smart move.
As I've posted many times.......there was a growing number exiting twi around 1979-1982. Corps leadership, 4th, 5th and 6th corps and followers alike were moving away from twi's lockstep march to conformity. Some were going back to college, or business ventures........I remember talking with Mike Sm!th, 1st Corps, before he left in 1982 after Living Victoriously and he'd seen enough too.
Connecting all the dots.........AMAZING.
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waysider
When P.O.P. was written/read, the average schmoe, like myself, had no idea the depth of depravity Wierwille was entrenched in. But, Geer knew. He, in fact, was instrumental, not only in fueling the depravity, but, also, and perhaps more importantly, in helping to create this false persona of Wierwille being some "great one". So, while he (Geer) is reading all these accolades that appear in P.O.P., he is simultaneously aware of the falsehood he is presenting. He knows he is lying through his teeth. How could anyone possibly now give an ounce of credibility to anything at all that this man might say?
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skyrider
Sunesis........in the essence of the patriarch paper, geer DID DEMAND that the trustees be voted out. With convincing evidence, geer HELD "the last will and testament of the man of God" and no one was able to dispute it. He built his case........he held the stage........the trustees had SIGNED and AGREED to its validity......and it upstaged the trustees fate SEALING THEIR DEMISE.
Conniving and calculating........geer assigned Johnnie T. and Ricardo C. to the trustee level. They reported back to geer......daily (??) Every trustee meeting was to include Johnnie and Ricardo. In every sense, these guys were like "spies in the white house."
Geer wouldn't return Craig's phone calls. Geer talked privately with Donna....adding schism. The trustees were on their heels and Geer relished in the spotlight.
The trustees took priority steps to have Trailer #5 as a way builders project.....designated for Chris Geer. This was to be his trailer whenever he came to hq. With new carpet, new furnishings, european a/v fittings.....all for the expressed purpose for geer's comfort. CHRIS GEER NEVER STAYED IN THAT TRAILER ONE NIGHT.
Geer gave the trustees the cold shoulder on every turn. Rumors swirled. Division worsened. Limb coordinators were flying to see Geer. Martindale was snubbed by corps leadership at major meetings.
Limb ccordinators were staying on twi's payroll.......with ALLEGIANCE to geer. Some were withholding abs, some were sending donations to geer, some were pocketing because the ship was going down. Many scoff at martindale's "loyalty letter"........but he really didn't have a choice. Twi was badly hemmorhaging money and people.
Imo......geer had read enough books to know stealth and mutiny, etc. Once set in motion, he knew that it was only a matter of time. Lots of things here........but geer and martindale couldn't co-exist on the same continent. Was this geer's dagger to martindale's ministry? Was this the ultimate gotcha?
I think so.
<_<
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Oakspear
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Oakspear
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skyrider
oakspear.....I've gotten smacked around for it, as well.
Martindale didn't have much of a choice. After about 18 months of keeping those Limb guys on twi's payroll, their ALLEGIANCE to geer was stiffening.
At the time, I was in Indiana.....and the Limb Coordinator had that big limb home with another couple on part-time twi staff staying in the little house on the property. All the ppfal material was boxed and stored in the secondary garage. The limb guy's boat was in the main garage.....where volunteer staff helped in its restoration.
The Indiana limb guy had Geer newsletters near the photocopy machine. All promotional material was for Geer material. And yet, THE INDIANA LIMB COORDINATOR DID NOT WANT TO GET OFF TWI PAYROLL. Martindale's letter stopped the hypocrisy.
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excathedra
i remember back before wierwille was even dying
a friend of mine called from the UK because psychogeer was destroying him
so i went to wierwille and finnegan and someone else oh yeah martindale
then i get his phonecall from geer on my HOME phone (iwas on staff at HQ)
he tells me that this friend of mine is packing
i'm like "packing what"
he tells me big ones -- i'm like "bit what" and he tells me devil spirits
so i go and tell wierwille that this guy is nuts and wierwille goes nuts
i think this is the time he (veepee) says to me "how long do i have to suck your corps asses
(huh?)
then when my friend comes to HQ -- oh man -- never mind -- but it all started with....
it's just too sad
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skyrider
sunesis.....one more point.
Imo....geer favored the "administrator approach" similar to rosalie. Had Geer demanded at this 1986 Corps Week an overthrow of power, Geer would have been confronted with a tsunami outcry of rebellion. Perhaps, the corps would have stormed a mass exodus overnight? How many leaders would have broken ranks? What if Geer could not contain the anger? What about the rock of ages in a few days?
Geer took the path of least resistance. He came prepared to read his paper.....and split. A little leaven of suspicion, leaveneth the whole lump.
Besides.....did Geer plan in advance to acquire the copyright of pfal materials? Back at Gartmore, Geer already had free labor with the European inrez corps. Did he also have the idea of setting up a franchise ministry? Would this be the power grab that he savored?
<_<
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Sunesis
Good points Skyrider. I remember our corps meeting after that corps week when we were back home. I was not a geerite, nor was I following LCM, or anyone at the point. I was on my way out. But they were talking about how great it was Geer had the copyrights. There were about 20 of us there.
I looked around and said after all the talking was done, since I was a lowly peon and not a corps honcho all the bigwigs went first. But I said, did you ever think he's going to start his own ministry, now that he has the copyrights? I also said, you know, he stated that 90 percent of the corps is possessed. I look around this room, that means 18 of you should be possessed - sorry, but I don't think you are. Do not follow this man. He is not a nice person or what you think he is. They did not like my talk.
I later found it was taped and the limb leader who was a Geer follower was not happy with my comments. After that, none of the corps would talk to me, or if they did it was grudgingly. They all went after Geer and became unbelieveably legalistic.
But, ok, I see, he needed to get the copyrights. He needed to get things in place, ducks lined up. I still think, if he were as smart as he thought he was, he should have made his move then. He could have gotten LCM out. Sure, maybe he would have lost people, but HQ would have been his and many more than you think would have stayed.
Over time, with LCM there, he lost the chance and LCM became more ensconced and the wagons circled around him. Geer would never be able to dislodge him. The moment was past. I guess that's it, he was an administrator - not a political player. He could have "won" if he had played his cards right.
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skyrider
Yeah......I see what you're saying, but the question remains -- "Did Geer want to overthrow the trustees and become the next twi president?" Sure, he and Barb could have moved into the Corps Chalet and he could have got the trains to run on time and all....but was that what he wanted? I don't know, but I tend to think not.
The last 20 years seems to point to the fact that Geer was little more than a businessman. Where was all that "revival" of getting the fire of the Word inside again? Where was the great depth of truth and application that resided in Geer? Why have so many US corps leaders abandoned the geerite movement?
Imo......geer wasn't the spiritual man that he thought he was. Sure, he could have reinstigated the wierwille mantra of classes, classses, etc.......like rosalie. But, so what? Any administrator could do that.
Even Geer's approach was a business model to Christianity.......franchise his classes. After all those years of serving alongside wierwille, THIS was the best he could do? THIS was his "spiritual" wisdom? His pathetic response shouldn't surprise any one....it was simply the wierwille class mode on overdrive. Yet, geer was taking it beyond the wierwille pail. Extremely impersonal and disconnected. Cut out the overhead. Cut out the root local. Cut off the major payroll expense. Franchise it....and count the money rolling in.
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Ham
I dunno.. to me it looks like he was (is) an uncharismatic, brain damaged goon..
one of those of the "inner circle" where the vicster required them to huff the prescribed amount of glue or something..
enough to leave them obnoxious, but intellectually inept to pull off the coup, even if they held all the cards..
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Ham
what a frigging moron..
sorry. I don't tend to talk about people in this manner.. but its just all too obvious..
there are only three people in existence I reserve this kind of label for..
if I held the power of life and death.. I would choose life. Why? If he just unexpectedly croaked.. that would end his travail of ineptness..
I think I'm starting to see what exie sees in this nutcase..
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Ham
Yep.. only three people..
there's the geero the goon..
a boss who sabotaged a whole department in a business, simply because he was afraid I'd earn too much money..
and one absolutely mathematically brilliant non-colleague who "sucks" in terms of being a human being..
human nature.. is absolutely FASCINATING..
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waysider
I think the franchise concept was part of Wierwille's business plan all along. What was Fellow Laborers if not a franchised version of the Corps? It just took Geer a while to figure out how to cash in on it himself.
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