Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so.
Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was so totally "lost"...even though I knew things were going on that were not right...yet was convinced it was me that was screwed up and things would pan out.
I remember leaving and just being dumbfounded....totally dumbfounded so much I would come home from work and sit in a rocking chair and just try and digest all of it....questions flowed through my mind...Did I just lose 13 years of my life for nothing...what about God now? What was true and what was false about the bible? And how could I possibly sort ALL of that out? It was just hard to process it all in my head. I was angered because I thought the best years of my life had been taken from me...I had NO IDEA how to function now. What do you do if you don't go to twig? What do you do if there are no advances to go to or Joyful Noise to listen to? And what about all those tapes...what would happen to me for leaving? I wasn't sure about anything anymore and when I was in I was sure about Everything... I had all the answers, I had a purpose, moving the word, and I knew My God....Now, it had all fallen apart... I literally did not know how to function outside of the TWI culture...cause now I was in "their" world...all the people we had blasted because they were not with "Us" Who do you trust? Where do you go? How do you think? Totally just crushed me.
Rock my world??...I think I need stronger words to describe what it did to my life. And though I've been out for 23 years...there are STILL things I have to work through from being involved...
To quote a verse, I was as a sheep, led to the slaughter, at least that is the way I was feeling...
The good news is...God has been putting my life back together, and healing my wounds....And I'm thankful......
I knew Geer from Gartmore, hated his arrogant self-satisfied smirk, and had early encountered that he said one thing and didn't follow through what he was spouting off in public. A lot of things flowing from Gartmore and the hard attitude there caused immense hurt and confusion to me, a mere "twiggy". The fog years were there and Geer was making a play for power and re-working PFAL.
God took me out of that and I ended up in another country, where the believers were kind and tender and really cared for each other and the BCs were great. That aroused a desire in me to want to serve better and I ended up going in rez.
When in rez, I was shown a copy of Poop. It was presented as being something special for me because of my knowledge of Geer - it wasn't shown to other in rez WC. I was appalled at the venom, vitriol, vileness of the language in the document. I was so utterly completely shocked at how any so-called leader could let such abusive language and outright evil spew forth.
Any vague doubts I might have had about Geer being the "right man" were instantly dispelled and it deepened my commitment to TWI, and the BoT at the time. :wacko: <= koolaid
Little did I realize that they were (are) ALL vile, venomous, and abusive. :asdf:
Choose your poison wisely!
So it "rocked my world" in a bit different way to the "rocks" others have described. In fact, it put some real big stumbling rocks (blocks) in my Christian walk.
(edited cos my little symbols didn't turn out right!)
I think in some ways, Hiway29's post sums it up for me.
Also, I had seen CG in action - literally hissing at a woman and going non-stop, the hate was vile. I wondered, what is going on here? It then dawned on me he was enjoying it! He was a sadistic SOB and I knew right then and there he was not, nor ever would be a "man of god." He was arrogant and aloof in the corps, basically had no friends and made himself a carbon copy of VP. They laughed together during his ordination - it was all very funny dontcha know, two special peas in a pod. I think of Goebbels and Hitler when I think of those two.
Anyway, here comes this whiney, self-absorbed, look at me, oh, the struggles I've had to put up with, pity paper and I just thought, you bastard. Also, calling 90% of the corps possessed (I think he did that in one of his meetings) - then showing up, running to scotland, showing up again - the games he played.
As to what was in the paper - basically dissing everyone - I think I realized - these people really are asshats. I'd had my suspicions, but now I knew. I know many people felt betrayed, the curtain was pulled back and the man behind the curtain, VP, was just a vindictive little man. People were now given permission in their minds to leave.
I know people who had spent years, given up their homes, comfortable jobs, even spouses who now felt angry and betrayed - we gave our lives for this???!!! For many it was a first time glimpse behind the scenes and they did not like what they saw. Here was the man of God even insulting and putting down his own family for public display - what kind of a person does that?
Also, as George said, people asked and asked for specifics - well, what exactly have the trustees done wrong? What have we done wrong? How can anyone expect to "change" or fix things if no one knew what it was that needed changing. It was all vague generalities.
Here's the thing, you had a generation who had gotten involved at 15, 16 through early 20s, and after all those years they were now grown up - early thirties and more. I think, we finally just had enough of the bull. POP exposed it, and we said - we're outta here. Time to make a real life for ourselves. And most of us have.
POP and Gear was one of those stories you'd hear about growing up from the old wayfers . . . when no newbies were around . . . people would begin telling these things . . . heavy talk, that's what people wanted to hear . . . Like a campfire story.
What's really sad is all those people who are still waiting around for Geer to finish his "advanced class", something he's been promising since 1989. What a terrible way to waste your life.
What's really sad is all those people who are still waiting around for Geer to finish his "advanced class", something he's been promising since 1989. What a terrible way to waste your life.
Still waiting..........and waiting............and waiting.
And the fleecing never stops as so many anticipate the final result.
Reminds me of the Crazy Horse Monument in the Black Hills of South Dakota. In 1972, I saw this *work in progress* and the tour guide pointed to all the drawings and miniature replica of what the final product would be. We looked through the telescopes, some had binoculars...........
Were you "out" by then, or was it all just kept from you? I'm just curious.
I left in 1990. Just sort of drifted out to sea, unnoticed.
My twig leaders, at the time, were old-timers from the very early days. They were genuinely good people, really. But, they surely must have know much more than they ever let on to. I don't mean about the sex and drinking, etc., I mean about the PooP paper. Maybe it was as shocking to them at the time as it was to me when I found out.
When it all hit the fan my family and I were not active in The Way. We kind of drifted away in 1983, mainly because we didn't get along with the local leadership, not because of doctrinal issues or because we thought anything was wrong at New Knoxville. We made the decision to get involved again in 1990 and were indoctrinated early on with the "Galatians tapes" and the points of view of those who had stayed through the exodus. Someone I knew who was out sent me a copy of the POP - it made no freakin' sense to me - like a few others had said, there were no specifics. To me it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap. Even after getting out and reading it again on GS in the light of more information, it still seemed like a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
Okay............I've got too much time on my hands this rainy afternoon.
So, I thought to take a glimpse at this geer paper, but couldn't get past the first ten paragraphs. These two paragraphs SPEAK VOLUMES.
We advertised locally for a cook, and the closest we came was in acquiring the help of a young man from Aberfoyle, the adjacent village, whose help was more along the lines of cleaning and washing-up. We were very blessed that he ended up taking the Power for Abundant Living class though.
I continued to do the cooking, working with some of the In-residence Corps as we went and finally took on trial one of our Advanced Class graduates from the Continent. He had the sense-knowledge qualifications to be able to handle the responsibility, but within a period of three weeks or less it became quite evident that he would not work out. So once again I assumed the responsibilities of cooking three meals a day in the kitchen in addition to handling The Way Corps programme and handling the work of the European Region. This also included all the menu preparation as well as all of the shopping to buy in the goods for the meals. I suppose I could have compromised and just let it go, but I did not feel spiritually right about it, so I did not.
Some thoughts just bubble to the surface........
1) Why couldn't the "all-wise" geer find a decent cook?
2) Are cooks in short supply in Scotland?
3) Why didn't any decent cook hirees apply to work at Gartmore House?
4) Then.....after cook let go, only Geer could cook?
5) Only Geer could do the menu preparation?
6) Anyone ever heard of DELEGATING RESPONSIBILITIES?
So yeah, it rocked my world quite a bit. Every part of my world. I'm thankful I got out when I did because from what I've heard it got a lot worse.
That's quite a story, man. I hope things got better for you over time.
So this Geer paper was the "beginning of the end" for you? Was there a specific event or realization that destroyed your credibility in the leadership and drove you out?
. . . To me it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap. Even after getting out and reading it again on GS in the light of more information, it still seemed like a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
We advertised locally for a cook, and the closest we came was in acquiring the help of a young man from Aberfoyle, the adjacent village, whose help was more along the lines of cleaning and washing-up. We were very blessed that he ended up taking the Power for Abundant Living class though.
I continued to do the cooking, working with some of the In-residence Corps as we went and finally took on trial one of our Advanced Class graduates from the Continent. He had the sense-knowledge qualifications to be able to handle the responsibility, but within a period of three weeks or less it became quite evident that he would not work out. So once again I assumed the responsibilities of cooking three meals a day in the kitchen in addition to handling The Way Corps programme and handling the work of the European Region. This also included all the menu preparation as well as all of the shopping to buy in the goods for the meals. I suppose I could have compromised and just let it go, but I did not feel spiritually right about it, so I did not.
is this the frikkin twi light zone ? it's just beyond comprehension
To me it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap. Even after getting out and reading it again on GS in the light of more information, it still seemed like a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
I think it may have only seemed that way because it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
I left in 1990. Just sort of drifted out to sea, unnoticed.
My twig leaders, at the time, were old-timers from the very early days. They were genuinely good people, really. But, they surely must have know much more than they ever let on to. I don't mean about the sex and drinking, etc., I mean about the PooP paper. Maybe it was as shocking to them at the time as it was to me when I found out.
Here you'd been around since '72, practically one of the "originals" in your area, and this was hidden from you. How pathetically sad, I guess. Then again, maybe you were lucky, I dunno.
I know these were probably rhetorical questions.. but they deserve an answer from the world's oldest Squirrel..
1) Why couldn't the "all-wise" geer find a decent cook?
probably because *mr(?)* geer couldn't find his rear end, using both hands..
2) Are cooks in short supply in Scotland?
probably. Not just cooks, but da prevailing word over da world cooks. (cooks who would not insist on being given a decent salary.)
3) Why didn't any decent cook hirees apply to work at Gartmore House?
explanation? look at the last question..
4) Then.....after cook let go, only Geer could cook?
gawd have mercy on the intestines and entrails of said corps volunteers eating whatever it was..
5) Only Geer could do the menu preparation?
I'd call it something else other than food "preparation"..
6) Anyone ever heard of DELEGATING RESPONSIBILITIES?
a reference to question 1 is appropriate. Normally you would delegate responsibilities to someone QUALIFIED. But.. that generally involves remuneration with respect to the qualifications..
7) Why the immense amount of geer-bloviating?
I understand that this is still the case.. he's "languishing" somewhere because of somebody elses unbelief.. no soup, or advanced class yet..
I have at least a little time on my hands as well..
That's quite a story, man. I hope things got better for you over time.
So this Geer paper was the "beginning of the end" for you? Was there a specific event or realization that destroyed your credibility in the leadership and drove you out?
Thank you Soul Searcher. Yes, things did get better over time. There were several events that took place over many years that showed me that the TWI leadership is and was much less than credible. I can't possibly delineate all of that here. It would just take up too much space. But I appreciate your interest. You're right, the POP paper was the beginning of the end. :)
and with regards to my earlier posts..
God Bless you ErkJohn..
I likely betrayed some under my trust as well..
the only difference: there were fewer than others have to "deal with"..
there were times I was a damned coward..
I am thankful I did not have even more responsibility.. in a lot of ways I've already hung myself..
Good insight, my friend! And no, if you were referring to me, you haven't ruined my "trip".
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newlife
Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so. Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was
Sunesis
I think in some ways, Hiway29's post sums it up for me. Also, I had seen CG in action - literally hissing at a woman and going non-stop, the hate was vile. I wondered, what is going on here? It the
Sunesis
I did really say that. You should have seen their expressions, everyone kind of glanced at everyone else, little brains whirring... who here is possessed??? Not me, not me!!! I then said, I don't
newlife
Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so.
Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was so totally "lost"...even though I knew things were going on that were not right...yet was convinced it was me that was screwed up and things would pan out.
I remember leaving and just being dumbfounded....totally dumbfounded so much I would come home from work and sit in a rocking chair and just try and digest all of it....questions flowed through my mind...Did I just lose 13 years of my life for nothing...what about God now? What was true and what was false about the bible? And how could I possibly sort ALL of that out? It was just hard to process it all in my head. I was angered because I thought the best years of my life had been taken from me...I had NO IDEA how to function now. What do you do if you don't go to twig? What do you do if there are no advances to go to or Joyful Noise to listen to? And what about all those tapes...what would happen to me for leaving? I wasn't sure about anything anymore and when I was in I was sure about Everything... I had all the answers, I had a purpose, moving the word, and I knew My God....Now, it had all fallen apart... I literally did not know how to function outside of the TWI culture...cause now I was in "their" world...all the people we had blasted because they were not with "Us" Who do you trust? Where do you go? How do you think? Totally just crushed me.
Rock my world??...I think I need stronger words to describe what it did to my life. And though I've been out for 23 years...there are STILL things I have to work through from being involved...
To quote a verse, I was as a sheep, led to the slaughter, at least that is the way I was feeling...
The good news is...God has been putting my life back together, and healing my wounds....And I'm thankful......
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Twinky
Now for a slightly different take on PooP...
I knew Geer from Gartmore, hated his arrogant self-satisfied smirk, and had early encountered that he said one thing and didn't follow through what he was spouting off in public. A lot of things flowing from Gartmore and the hard attitude there caused immense hurt and confusion to me, a mere "twiggy". The fog years were there and Geer was making a play for power and re-working PFAL.
God took me out of that and I ended up in another country, where the believers were kind and tender and really cared for each other and the BCs were great. That aroused a desire in me to want to serve better and I ended up going in rez.
When in rez, I was shown a copy of Poop. It was presented as being something special for me because of my knowledge of Geer - it wasn't shown to other in rez WC. I was appalled at the venom, vitriol, vileness of the language in the document. I was so utterly completely shocked at how any so-called leader could let such abusive language and outright evil spew forth.
Any vague doubts I might have had about Geer being the "right man" were instantly dispelled and it deepened my commitment to TWI, and the BoT at the time. :wacko:
<= koolaid
Little did I realize that they were (are) ALL vile, venomous, and abusive.
:asdf: 
Choose your poison wisely!
So it "rocked my world" in a bit different way to the "rocks" others have described. In fact, it put some real big stumbling rocks (blocks) in my Christian walk.
(edited cos my little symbols didn't turn out right!)
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Sunesis
I think in some ways, Hiway29's post sums it up for me.
Also, I had seen CG in action - literally hissing at a woman and going non-stop, the hate was vile. I wondered, what is going on here? It then dawned on me he was enjoying it! He was a sadistic SOB and I knew right then and there he was not, nor ever would be a "man of god." He was arrogant and aloof in the corps, basically had no friends and made himself a carbon copy of VP. They laughed together during his ordination - it was all very funny dontcha know, two special peas in a pod. I think of Goebbels and Hitler when I think of those two.
Anyway, here comes this whiney, self-absorbed, look at me, oh, the struggles I've had to put up with, pity paper and I just thought, you bastard. Also, calling 90% of the corps possessed (I think he did that in one of his meetings) - then showing up, running to scotland, showing up again - the games he played.
As to what was in the paper - basically dissing everyone - I think I realized - these people really are asshats. I'd had my suspicions, but now I knew. I know many people felt betrayed, the curtain was pulled back and the man behind the curtain, VP, was just a vindictive little man. People were now given permission in their minds to leave.
I know people who had spent years, given up their homes, comfortable jobs, even spouses who now felt angry and betrayed - we gave our lives for this???!!! For many it was a first time glimpse behind the scenes and they did not like what they saw. Here was the man of God even insulting and putting down his own family for public display - what kind of a person does that?
Also, as George said, people asked and asked for specifics - well, what exactly have the trustees done wrong? What have we done wrong? How can anyone expect to "change" or fix things if no one knew what it was that needed changing. It was all vague generalities.
Here's the thing, you had a generation who had gotten involved at 15, 16 through early 20s, and after all those years they were now grown up - early thirties and more. I think, we finally just had enough of the bull. POP exposed it, and we said - we're outta here. Time to make a real life for ourselves. And most of us have.
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Bolshevik
POP and Gear was one of those stories you'd hear about growing up from the old wayfers . . . when no newbies were around . . . people would begin telling these things . . . heavy talk, that's what people wanted to hear . . . Like a campfire story.
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TOMMYZ
What's really sad is all those people who are still waiting around for Geer to finish his "advanced class", something he's been promising since 1989. What a terrible way to waste your life.
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skyrider
Still waiting..........and waiting............and waiting.
And the fleecing never stops as so many anticipate the final result.
Reminds me of the Crazy Horse Monument in the Black Hills of South Dakota. In 1972, I saw this *work in progress* and the tour guide pointed to all the drawings and miniature replica of what the final product would be. We looked through the telescopes, some had binoculars...........
The monument is still NOT finished.
My link
<_<
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waysider
I left in 1990. Just sort of drifted out to sea, unnoticed.
My twig leaders, at the time, were old-timers from the very early days. They were genuinely good people, really. But, they surely must have know much more than they ever let on to. I don't mean about the sex and drinking, etc., I mean about the PooP paper. Maybe it was as shocking to them at the time as it was to me when I found out.
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Oakspear
When it all hit the fan my family and I were not active in The Way. We kind of drifted away in 1983, mainly because we didn't get along with the local leadership, not because of doctrinal issues or because we thought anything was wrong at New Knoxville. We made the decision to get involved again in 1990 and were indoctrinated early on with the "Galatians tapes" and the points of view of those who had stayed through the exodus. Someone I knew who was out sent me a copy of the POP - it made no freakin' sense to me - like a few others had said, there were no specifics. To me it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap. Even after getting out and reading it again on GS in the light of more information, it still seemed like a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
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skyrider
On Page 1 ........ of Geer's patriarch paper.
Okay............I've got too much time on my hands this rainy afternoon.
So, I thought to take a glimpse at this geer paper, but couldn't get past the first ten paragraphs. These two paragraphs SPEAK VOLUMES.
Some thoughts just bubble to the surface........
1) Why couldn't the "all-wise" geer find a decent cook?
2) Are cooks in short supply in Scotland?
3) Why didn't any decent cook hirees apply to work at Gartmore House?
4) Then.....after cook let go, only Geer could cook?
5) Only Geer could do the menu preparation?
6) Anyone ever heard of DELEGATING RESPONSIBILITIES?
7) Why the immense amount of geer-bloviating?
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waysider
It takes a certain level of "spiritual maturity" to properly poach an egg. I though everyone knew that.
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skyrider
Yeah.....I know THAT.
But I thought the minions did the menu prep and shopping?
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Ham
I thought it was that it takes "spiritual maturity" to approach an egg. Especially if it was laid by a possessed chicken..
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soul searcher
That's quite a story, man. I hope things got better for you over time.
So this Geer paper was the "beginning of the end" for you? Was there a specific event or realization that destroyed your credibility in the leadership and drove you out?
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Bolshevik
roflol!
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excathedra
is this the frikkin twi light zone ? it's just beyond comprehension
come on, can you laugh ?
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Broken Arrow
I think it may have only seemed that way because it was just a rambling bunch of self-serving crap.
Here you'd been around since '72, practically one of the "originals" in your area, and this was hidden from you. How pathetically sad, I guess. Then again, maybe you were lucky, I dunno.
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excathedra
everything was hidden from the beautiful people in the regular frikkin twigs
that's a big reason i left because i was no different than they were
iwas just sucked in to thinking i was special
gorss
what was so special and secret ?
that these perverts ran the way ?
ohmygod
when it dawned on methat special meant "f'd up" --- i doubt i'm making any sense
it even sounds elitist when i say these things
pfffttttt
thank god i'm out and know and love real people -- just like the ones i used to be "over" -- how gross
and my heartfelt apologies and shame to anyone who thought i was something because i was a way corps grad
the way corps program and being in the know (of what) destroyed me
not looking for sympathy -- i'm 53 -- i wasn't then but i'm still sorry for the joke that was on me and on anyone i knew and loved
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excathedra
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRNTQvXSsfA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRNTQvXSsfA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRNTQvXSsfA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
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Ham
I know these were probably rhetorical questions.. but they deserve an answer from the world's oldest Squirrel..
probably because *mr(?)* geer couldn't find his rear end, using both hands..
probably. Not just cooks, but da prevailing word over da world cooks. (cooks who would not insist on being given a decent salary.)
explanation? look at the last question..
gawd have mercy on the intestines and entrails of said corps volunteers eating whatever it was..
I'd call it something else other than food "preparation"..
a reference to question 1 is appropriate. Normally you would delegate responsibilities to someone QUALIFIED. But.. that generally involves remuneration with respect to the qualifications..
I understand that this is still the case.. he's "languishing" somewhere because of somebody elses unbelief.. no soup, or advanced class yet..
I have at least a little time on my hands as well..
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Ham
and with regards to my earlier posts..
God Bless you ErkJohn..
I likely betrayed some under my trust as well..
the only difference: there were fewer than others have to "deal with"..
there were times I was a damned coward..
I am thankful I did not have even more responsibility.. in a lot of ways I've already hung myself..
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Ham
Its kinda pathetic.. my claim to fame here.. I have less(?) blood on my hands.. its still blood..
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Ham
maybe its just human nature..
we tend to be a savage, bloody bunch..
I hope I haven't ruined your "trip" here..
it just doesn't frighten me anymore..
we all want the simple days..
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Broken Arrow
Thank you Soul Searcher. Yes, things did get better over time. There were several events that took place over many years that showed me that the TWI leadership is and was much less than credible. I can't possibly delineate all of that here. It would just take up too much space. But I appreciate your interest. You're right, the POP paper was the beginning of the end. :)
Good insight, my friend! And no, if you were referring to me, you haven't ruined my "trip".
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Ham
Thanks friend..
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