Why did Geer's Patriarch Paper "rock our world?"

[skyrider]

On the "exodus" thread.......Sunesis stated:

But, 86 after POP rocked our world. I remember telling my coordinator at evaluations I could not guarantee him I'd be around the next year. I think the majority booked in '86 and others felt like they could now do it safely. You have to remember the intense "peer pressure." But now, it was ok to leave. I think that was a move of God.

This statement intrigues me.

Now, from the vantage point of looking in the rear-view mirror AND over 20 years of adulthood......why did that paper and experience "rock our world?" Do any of the following apply?

1) The wierwille lock-box secrets were leaking out?

2) The trustees and geer, who claimed to know wierwille's "last will & testatment," were facing off?

3) Geer told all the U.S. corps that we were "off the word?"

4) If the corps were "off the word".......then what?

5) Major schisms were fracturing our little world of puppy-dogs and lolly pops?

6) The scales were falling off our eyes....and we could see twi leaders were infallible?

7) The tsunami of suspicion to "claim the higher ground" hit us with a crushing blow?

8) Decades of trust vanished overnight?

9) Why did wierwille not confront this stuff before his death?

10) Oh, my God.......twi is a cult !!??

11) Geer is now "the man" with the mantle, not LCM?

12) Other.....................

[waysider]

I never even knew about the "poop" paper until I stumbled on GSC.

I was pretty flabergasted when I read it.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/passing-of-the-patriarch.html

Edited March 23, 2010 by waysider

[hiway29]

Lots of reasons. I do think that all bs aside, this was the FIRST time ANYTHING negative was said in public about any leader. That it came from VP's grave made it sensational.

By this point, many (certainly me) had just about enough of being told we were screwed up every other day, from people you knew were screwed up themselves, but you dare not talk back to, since you NEVER talked back to leaders in the way.

It was like cold water in the face. Repressed anger, hurts, etc were suddenly ok to express. I found it all quite refreshing.

[Ham]

I don't know if it "rocked my world.."

but all the steamy little details just filled in a whole lot of suspicions and verified a common sense conclusion that I may have drawn from what I observed.. we were following a madman.. and there were other madmen who thought their own version of wienervillian nuttiness was any better.

Like Waysider.. I didn't read any of geero's psychotic rambling until I found it on the front page of gs cafe.

Honestly.. the *man* is a moron..

in my opinion.

and he's left "holding the bag" after the vicmeisters demise..

there are those.. who I had INTIMATE relationship with. Supposedly "brothers and sisters" in the "household.."

of those two or three who thought I was too "spiritually immature" or some such nonsense to "handle the truth".. and withheld what they knew.. to you I say..

Pffft.

you were supposed to be some kind of "watchman"..

you are also left holding the bag, by default..

[Ham]

I hope you didn't just go and start a church somewhere else or something..

[skyrider]

Lots of reasons. I do think that all bs aside, this was the FIRST time ANYTHING negative was said in public about any leader. That it came from VP's grave made it sensational.

By this point, many (certainly me) had just about enough of being told we were screwed up every other day, from people you knew were screwed up themselves, but you dare not talk back to, since you NEVER talked back to leaders in the way.

It was like cold water in the face. Repressed anger, hurts, etc were suddenly ok to express. I found it all quite refreshing.

As I listened to Geer's paper.......after about an hour, I thought, HOW CONVENIENT.

Geer was wierwille's bus driver, bodyguard, valet, accomplice, buddy, side-kick, must-love-dogs, keeper of the secrets, whitewasher, etc..............WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE HIM?

The generic "off the word" didn't cut it for me. Most all was directed at Craig, Don and Howard......did Geer confront them personally, with two or three witnesses, before all this (Matthew 18)? NO? WHY NOT?

Any repressed questions I had.......came gushing forward.

[waysider]

It kinda makes me wonder if, a thousand years from now, it will be seen as some kind of profoundly relevant epistle.

"Thus saith Geer."

[irisheyes]

I don't know if I exactly wondered if Geer confronted the three "stooges" or not. What I do remember more than anything was thinking "where is the love of God in this?" I was so totally disgusted that a father could actually leave a legacy like that to his son that I looked at my husband and said this just ain't right. I don't think it took us 24 hours to clear out. What we did was go home and actually read the bible for our own selves and low and behold the first thing I looked into was agape because that was what bothered me the most about the whole paper bs. Boy, was I surprised to see how wrong we had been taught about that one "little" word. It was a field day after that and ever since. If anyone should have confronted anyone it should have been VP confronting his own son. Are we called to hurt each other? How could I believe anything I was taught by a man who hurts the people he is supposed to love above all others. Blatant hypocracy. Oops, I mean hypocrisy (maybe).

[waysider]

You know, when this thing was originally read, the reality of what The Way was really all about was still cloaked in secrecy. Trying to read this tripe after discovering what a lecherous drunk Wierwille was and what a boot-licking toady Geer was is almost surrealistic.

page 5

"Dr. Wierwille was a wonderful man, a "man of God" in the truest and fullest sense. I saw him give his utmost for God's highest day after day in his life and finally in his death. And, I should know. I lived; I worked; I took care of the man and his heart for years." <_<

Edited March 24, 2010 by waysider

[excathedra]

it absolutely rocked my world. i'll try to explain. FIRST, the MAJOR FRIKKIN DOG WAS DEAD -- that was release from my prisons

SECOND (but not necessarily in that order), i hated that BASTAD GEER -- and i had excellent proof how F'd up he was

but the changing thing for me was going to a corps meeting at the limb home to listen to a teape and fortunately for me two people were there -- well more than two -- three i think -- it was joe fair and nancy and also ralp graham

after some tape, i shared how guilt ridden i felt and joe and nancy and ralph said "WHY"? what have you done wrong?

all of a sudden, i realized i hadn't done anything wrong

it was a tape about the corps being responsible for his death or something like that

and when we were told we could not tell anyone about this, the first thing david and i did was go back and tell our twig/branch et al about what we had just heard

hope this makes sense

not too long after (i think) john lynn breezed through -- trying to remember -- i didn't like that

i might be confusing some stuff, but anyway I HATE GEER

[excathedra]

ps. there were other people there too

and a limb leader who i LOVE(D)

i just couldn't lie anymore to people i loved -- maybe because it dawned on me i couldn't lie to myself anymore --

there are other things that happend too whre i wrote to craig and told him he shouuld not carry on with wierwille's sexual perversities, i just have to figure out where that comes into play

but hwo cares?

[waysider]

but who cares?

I do.

I just wish I could explain "why?".

Edited March 24, 2010 by waysider

[irisheyes]

Why? Because it was years of our lives, that's why. We were turned inside out and upside down and not even able to enjoy it!

[waysider]

Why? Because it was years of our lives, that's why. We were turned inside out and upside down and not even able to enjoy it!

Yeah---that, too.

[excathedra]

so sad everything

i got in at 18/19

i left at 34 or around there

and now i'm 53 i think

and i'm still ....ng here

[Tzaia]

As I listened to Geer's paper.......after about an hour, I thought, HOW CONVENIENT.

Geer was wierwille's bus driver, bodyguard, valet, accomplice, buddy, side-kick, must-love-dogs, keeper of the secrets, whitewasher, etc..............WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE HIM?

I *tried* to wade through it once. I thought it was incredibly self-indulgent - and how convenient.

[irisheyes]

Ex: Hey girl, are you ok? I'm 50+, too, and still kicking butt. I got out when I was maybe 35 and I'm so glad I wasn't around for the stuff that followed. I learned to listen to myself one day and I think I have holy spirit in there somewhere. Most days I realize that I don't know crap and that's okay, at least I can own up to it. And crazy? Sure we know crazy. Just think, no one can bulls**t us and get away with it. We've learned from the masters....

[waysider]

I'll bet there are STILL people whose world gets "rocked" when they come here and read the darn thing themselves for the very first time and contrast it to the information that is here.

HERE

[excathedra]

you know he's insane don't you ? but why should that bother anyone who is spiritually minded ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ahahaha

ohmygod just get out of THE WAY and

there are really heavy sad things happening in my life at the moment

so this old man with the puny deck who prentended to be important and then the psycho man with problems etc. seem really stupid to me right now

and everything else

[Broken Arrow]

Supposedly "brothers and sisters" in the "household.."

of those two or three who thought I was too "spiritually immature" or some such nonsense to "handle the truth".. and withheld what they knew.. to you I say..

Pffft.

you were supposed to be some kind of "watchman"..

you are also left holding the bag, by default..

Yeah, well you're right, and I accept your "Pffft". I don't know your identity but I could have just as easily been one of those egotistical pharasaical numbskulls who judged people's spirituality by the color of their nametag. I was very elitist and that was, well, evil quite frankly. So, on behalf of all the elitist pharasaical, egotistical numbskull snobs who devalued you, I apologize. A watchman? Yeah right! Watching to see how I could progress up the TWI ladder. I would like to think I've changed.

[Broken Arrow]

It kinda makes me wonder if, a thousand years from now, it will be seen as some kind of profoundly relevant epistle.

"Thus saith Geer."

TWI won't even be a blip on the radar screen in 20 years much less in 1,000.

I never even knew about the "poop" paper until I stumbled on GSC.

I was pretty flabergasted when I read it.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/passing-of-the-patriarch.html

Were you "out" by then, or was it all just kept from you? I'm just curious.

Edited March 24, 2010 by erkjohn

[Ham]

Yeah, well you're right, and I accept your "Pffft". I don't know your identity but I could have just as easily been one of those egotistical pharasaical numbskulls who judged people's spirituality by the color of their nametag. I was very elitist and that was, well, evil quite frankly. So, on behalf of all the elitist pharasaical, egotistical numbskull snobs who devalued you, I apologize. A watchman? Yeah right! Watching to see how I could progress up the TWI ladder. I would like to think I've changed.

I hope I've changed as well..

a few facts I learned post-way.. I'm not inferior to anyone.. of course that goes both ways..

maybe its like.. I'd really like to know if my friends had some real closure of sorts..

I hope they aren't just hiding out somewhere, trying to run another "twig" or something..

In my lower position on the totem pole, I am sure I was every bit as arrogant..

[Ham]

sowy.. wrong forum..

Edited March 24, 2010 by Ham

[Broken Arrow]

Skyrider, for me everything applies on your list except #1. At the time I didn't believe any of the lockbox stuff that was leaking out. I was shocked beyond belief by the POP paper. I got "in" at 17 in 1974. I just thought these guys were all above reproach. I believed that the top leadership operated by revelation and decisions made were unquestionably God's will. I thought the doctrine TWI taught was perfect, the greatest teaching of God's Word since the 1st century. There were no doubts in me. I had committed by entire life, future, and career on "moving the Word" which meant serving the Way International. There was no other purpose for me, and I believed no higher calling. When I heard about the paper, and then heard the paper read, I was just shocked. Is it possible I could have actually been wrong and the critics were right? I just couldn't stomach the possibility that I had built my entire life on a hollow lie. I went through quite a crisis over this. To make matters worse, I also developed cancer and I ignored the symptoms for so long that I ended up in stage 2. So I was haunted with questions about how I, a Way Corps grad, could have let myself develop cancer. Where was my believing? Wasn't cancer a devil spirit? What kind of a person am I if I opened myself up to devil spirit possession? How could I expect to lead God's people. I had just spent 3 years of my life in a training program, another 3 years on the field and now I have cancer? Does that mean I can't lead now? With the POP paper, is there even a ministry to lead in? If not, where do I go now? If it's not TWI leadership, what do I do now? I also had a newborn baby at the time and wondered how I was going to take care of a family since I kept quitting my jobs to attend Corps Week and ROA, so I could "stand" with the Man of God.

So yeah, it rocked my world quite a bit. Every part of my world. I'm thankful I got out when I did because from what I've heard it got a lot worse.

[George Aar]

The one overarching question I had from first hearing of the "POP" paper till when I finally left WayWorld (about 3 years later) was "What the hell IS wrong?".

We constantly heard how screwed up the BOT was and all the Corps and various and sundry leaders and how "spiritually" we were just all F-ed up, but specifics were damned scarce. All we ever got was a whole lotta vague. We were all "off the WURD" and Geer doubted if we'd ever get right again. BUT WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG? We were just supposed to know.

It was so childish and stupid. I still blush in utter embarassment for the fool I was played for. Honestly, to be middleaged and STILL playing a ridiculous, real-life game of "The Emperor's New Clothes", really it's almost shameful to be that credulous. How could I be that farking stupid.

Regret is a mutha-@#%ker...