If you dig around here a little bit and read women's accounts of their sexual abuse at the hands of VPW and put the timelines together I think that a logical conclusion is that Geer at least facilitated much of that while he was VPW's coach driver if not participated himself. Think about it - someone drugged some of the girls' drinks by their accounts while they were with VP.
That leaves aside that at least one female poster said so outright.
Thanks for the timeline, Skyrider. I was in residence as a member of the 16th Corps at Camp Gunnison when Geer read The Passing of a Patriarch to the Corps on Corps night. That was just a few days before the end of the block, when I dropped out of the Corps because my Pop had a stroke and my Mom went into the hospital for surgery on the same day. I had to go home to Indiana to help take care of them. It was easy for me to get over to HQ and to schmooze with my 16th Corps buds who were quartered there, and other old friends, so I got a little glimpse of what was going on.
In The Passing of a Patriarch, Geer never breathed a word about the rampant adultery. I think he kept it as a card up his sleeve to blackmail the Trustees into giving him the things he wanted. I think that is the reason they were so obsequious to him.
Steve.......I tend to agree with your assessment that Geer was using the adultery card to blackmail. I seriously doubt that the trustees would have given Geer the platform to speak to all the corps household otherwise.
Chris Geer was known to partake of wierwille's ideology that "adultery helps to minister to needs."
When K_rk Martindale was housed in one of the corps-tels next to twi's Corps Chalet, Chris Geer had come to hq during this turbulent time of 1986. This small, adjacent bedrooms surrounded by wood are like echo chambers as sound is easily transmitted through the walls. Late one night during Geer's stay at hq, a lady-friend came over for a "visit" and, during the night, K_rk heard and learned more about the secret life of Geer.
Kirk related this episode shortly after he left the inresidence program. He was fumed by the abuse of power knowing that his brother AND geer were partakers. He was deeply disgusted with the corps program -- thinking that all corps knew of these secret doctrines of wierwille.
I tend to agree 86-89 was more like one exodus. But to me - 86 was the "en masse" year - a huge chunk left. I went back in '87 to the Rock and corps week and realized there really wasn't anyone there I knew. Most of my 7th corps people were gone, plus many others I knew. I felt like a stranger. I was already mentally gone but was there out of "duty."
I did go to the '88 one knowing full well it was my last. I think I wanted to take one last look around. There was really no one there I knew anymore. I spent two days and left - didn't bother finishing the corps week or the rock. I saw it for what it was and knew I was truly done. I think, for me, it was a closure thing. I wanted to see it one last time. I was 33 and had been visiting since I was teen in High School, had been on staff there, etc. So, it was a goodbye thing. Which was good as I never wanted over the years to go back and see it again.
But, 86 after POP rocked our world. I remember telling my coordinator at evaluations I could not guarantee him I'd be around the next year. I think the majority booked in '86 and others felt like they could now do it safely. You have to remember the intense "peer pressure." But now, it was ok to leave. I think that was a move of God.
I tried talking to the young kids there just starting out in the corps, and realized they were so sold out to LCM. I then realized, they would have to grow up like we did. That's when I think you saw the mass exodus after the Allen suit. Ten years or so, they had grown up and were now in their early 30s. Also a move of God I believe.
I really think there were just two. People there now will never leave - unless forced.
I really think there were just two. People there now will never leave - unless forced.
I see only 2 myself.. Each happening just as the young-uns were grown up enough each time to finally see through the bs and some big change awakens their awareness. I don't think there has ever been a shortage of people heralding the truth. I know the first year I was involved I was given a big stack of "truth" about ol' Vic and TWI, and I brushed it off as sensational garbage! I left right before turning the big 3-0, and all the light coming down on LCM. I was ready a couple years before then having seen what was going on 1st hand, but the mass confusion and revealing and exodus made it all the more easier..
I figure if history is right, there will be another.. Bout the time the current tweens come of age around their early 30s.. What big revealing will happen then? Maybe Rosie and Donna's adventures together, maybe some of the current higher up's kids find out their father was really LCM or another who partook, maybe Rosie will croak! Who knows, only time will tell!
I see only 2 myself.. Each happening just as the young-uns were grown up enough each time to finally see through the bs and some big change awakens their awareness. I don't think there has ever been a shortage of people heralding the truth. I know the first year I was involved I was given a big stack of "truth" about ol' Vic and TWI, and I brushed it off as sensational garbage! I left right before turning the big 3-0, and all the light coming down on LCM. I was ready a couple years before then having seen what was going on 1st hand, but the mass confusion and revealing and exodus made it all the more easier..
I figure if history is right, there will be another.. Bout the time the current tweens come of age around their early 30s.. What big revealing will happen then? Maybe Rosie and Donna's adventures together, maybe some of the current higher up's kids find out their father was really LCM or another who partook, maybe Rosie will croak! Who knows, only time will tell!
Not a *mass exodus"..........but the MINI EXODUS of 1998.
At the June/July advanced class of 1998, martindale was confronted with having sex with a married corps woman..... and tagged as "martindale's sex-capades" and led to the Colorado lawsuit.
This mini exodus of 1998..........some 40-120 people exited before damage control took hold. Along with many others, as the phones were a-buzzing........my wife and I learned about martindale's seedy predation and EXITED.
Not long after this, there were several reasons different people exited.
Ralph D was one of the people who had been approached by women abused by twi top staffers,
and he was unable to get any satisfactory answer to it, or any answers other than
"Sssshh!" "You question us? You must be possessed!" and "You are now being thrown off
grounds. We're posting a guard until you leave."
He was one person at the top who questioned things after vpw died. Some questioned (like Ralph)
because uncomfortable truths were coming to light. Others questioned because they didn't think
l craig martindale had the brains to blow his own nose, let alone run what they thought was
God's Ministry. Others had their own reasons (some speculation has included they wanted to
have been in charge, so they went off to form their own ministries based on their preferred
parts of twi.)
Anyway, so sometime in 1985-1986, there was the first big exodus. It was so big that it was
noticed by external media. Those of you so inclined can do a little research (I did once),
and go to the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature, and find the article in Christianity
Today called "Infighting trims branches at the Way International." It's about 1 page, and
was about this split. This in turn led to "the fog years", when even lcm admits he wandered
about as if in a fog.
In 1988/1989, lcm came out of his fog, and demanded an oath of loyalty to himself PERSONALLY.
(Not to "God", not to "God's Word", not even to "The Ministry", but to HIMSELF.)
One person who knew him phoned him personally to confirm this was what was meant.
"When I asked if this letter was a call to blindly follow him he said I had been doing this all along.
I then told him if that's what he thinks he could 'kiss my @$$'.
I think I was dropped from the rolls of the Way Corps that next morning."
That prompted the biggest mass exit in twi history. 80% of the rank-and-file were all gone,
including 80% of the leadership, and virtually the entire research department including
its head, Walter Cummins.
After that, twi began the process of hemorrhaging members, which lasted until around 1999,
when lcm was finally exposed in legal documents as a criminal and a pervert
(vpw was never caught legally during his lifetime, he was a criminal and a pervert
who was not caught.),
there was another exodus from twi. It couldn't be as big as the 1989 one, because so many
fewer people were still IN twi. Still, percentage-wise, they lost a sizeable chunk.
After that, twi went back to hemorrhaging members again, to the point that their current
membership numbers overall (including minors) must be about 3000 (if not less.)
So that's the major Exoduses. (Exodi? Exodia?)
A) 1985-1986, "infighting trims branches" as some top leaders leave or are kicked out
B) 1988-1989 lcm's "line in the sand", 80% leave as lcm demands blind loyalty to himself
C) 1998-1999 lcm's ousted by lawsuit and lawyers, followers are fed up and leave
D) 2017 Moneyhands and a handful at the top. about to be cut off from the payroll, pretend to be outraged about doctrine and practice. They then storm off an announce a need to form a new group (with the name and URL they conveniently registered about a year before, and bring along some other twi'ers.
D) 2017 Moneyhands and a handful at the top. about to be cut off from the payroll, pretend to be outraged about doctrine and practice. They then storm off an announce a need to form a new group (with the name and URL they conveniently registered about a year before, and bring along some other twi'ers.
Well..........Moneyhands, Horn3ys, and Forts (3 former corps coordinators) can feign outrage all they want. The corps campuses were nothing but INDOCTRINATION CAMPS and headquarters was its CULT COMPOUND.
Go ahead, tho........and wallow in your way-daze nostalgia. Pat yourselves on the back for "standing with wierwille."
Maybe you can go spend time with John Lynn.......ANOTHER former cult corps coordinator.
During the second half of 1986, I was in the bogus Yuk Twig at HQ. My "assignment" from April to November, 1986, was "Way Corpse Director, Way Corpse In-Residence Coordinator, HQ Oversight of US Trunk with Howard Allen." The elder corpse that year was the 15th. First year in-rez was the 17th. Horneys were "Area Leaders" among the in-Rez corpses at HQ that year. I was their Corpse Director AND corpse Coordinator. I know more than I ever needed to know about these manipulative little horny bastids. LOL! After I left in December that year, and became the seed-boy possesso, da forehead made it his mission to get all the in-rez corpse whom I had corrupted and opened to the billions of debbil spurts that are ALWAYS all over new Knoxville and every "root locale". The horneys were among his most loyal and "lockbox" sycophants and co-participators.
As far as Michael Blowhard Fort,....don't even get me started! I've known him since he was the loudmouth asshole courting coward allen's oldest child, and taking advantage of every nepotistic advantage bestowed upon him once he married her. TOTAL ASSHOLE! My disdain for Boob and Doody has been a matter of record here since 2000.
These jerks are among the most insignificant self-important delusional sociopaths and Elmer Gantrys fundamentalist "Christianity" has every crapped on the innocents.
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WordWolf
That leaves aside that at least one female poster said so outright.
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JustThinking
How great is that?!
JT
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OldSkool
It's a beautiful thing.
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skyrider
Steve.......I tend to agree with your assessment that Geer was using the adultery card to blackmail. I seriously doubt that the trustees would have given Geer the platform to speak to all the corps household otherwise.
Chris Geer was known to partake of wierwille's ideology that "adultery helps to minister to needs."
When K_rk Martindale was housed in one of the corps-tels next to twi's Corps Chalet, Chris Geer had come to hq during this turbulent time of 1986. This small, adjacent bedrooms surrounded by wood are like echo chambers as sound is easily transmitted through the walls. Late one night during Geer's stay at hq, a lady-friend came over for a "visit" and, during the night, K_rk heard and learned more about the secret life of Geer.
Kirk related this episode shortly after he left the inresidence program. He was fumed by the abuse of power knowing that his brother AND geer were partakers. He was deeply disgusted with the corps program -- thinking that all corps knew of these secret doctrines of wierwille.
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Sunesis
I tend to agree 86-89 was more like one exodus. But to me - 86 was the "en masse" year - a huge chunk left. I went back in '87 to the Rock and corps week and realized there really wasn't anyone there I knew. Most of my 7th corps people were gone, plus many others I knew. I felt like a stranger. I was already mentally gone but was there out of "duty."
I did go to the '88 one knowing full well it was my last. I think I wanted to take one last look around. There was really no one there I knew anymore. I spent two days and left - didn't bother finishing the corps week or the rock. I saw it for what it was and knew I was truly done. I think, for me, it was a closure thing. I wanted to see it one last time. I was 33 and had been visiting since I was teen in High School, had been on staff there, etc. So, it was a goodbye thing. Which was good as I never wanted over the years to go back and see it again.
But, 86 after POP rocked our world. I remember telling my coordinator at evaluations I could not guarantee him I'd be around the next year. I think the majority booked in '86 and others felt like they could now do it safely. You have to remember the intense "peer pressure." But now, it was ok to leave. I think that was a move of God.
I tried talking to the young kids there just starting out in the corps, and realized they were so sold out to LCM. I then realized, they would have to grow up like we did. That's when I think you saw the mass exodus after the Allen suit. Ten years or so, they had grown up and were now in their early 30s. Also a move of God I believe.
I really think there were just two. People there now will never leave - unless forced.
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TrustAndObey
I see only 2 myself.. Each happening just as the young-uns were grown up enough each time to finally see through the bs and some big change awakens their awareness. I don't think there has ever been a shortage of people heralding the truth. I know the first year I was involved I was given a big stack of "truth" about ol' Vic and TWI, and I brushed it off as sensational garbage! I left right before turning the big 3-0, and all the light coming down on LCM. I was ready a couple years before then having seen what was going on 1st hand, but the mass confusion and revealing and exodus made it all the more easier..
I figure if history is right, there will be another.. Bout the time the current tweens come of age around their early 30s.. What big revealing will happen then? Maybe Rosie and Donna's adventures together, maybe some of the current higher up's kids find out their father was really LCM or another who partook, maybe Rosie will croak! Who knows, only time will tell!
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skyrider
Not a *mass exodus"..........but the MINI EXODUS of 1998.
At the June/July advanced class of 1998, martindale was confronted with having sex with a married corps woman..... and tagged as "martindale's sex-capades" and led to the Colorado lawsuit.
This mini exodus of 1998..........some 40-120 people exited before damage control took hold. Along with many others, as the phones were a-buzzing........my wife and I learned about martindale's seedy predation and EXITED.
All of this is well-documented on the GS threads.
<_<
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Gen-2
I don't need to. He did fume at the traitors, went on a purge and had others vow alleigance to him.
He did fume at the traitors.
That was the second Exodus
The first Exodus was when my Dad left which was when he heard of Ralph D's treatment.
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Bolshevik
traitors? . . . hmmm . . . they were all in the same boat together . . . if you can't throw horses over someone's got to go.
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WordWolf
D) 2017 Moneyhands and a handful at the top. about to be cut off from the payroll, pretend to be outraged about doctrine and practice. They then storm off an announce a need to form a new group (with the name and URL they conveniently registered about a year before, and bring along some other twi'ers.
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skyrider
Well..........Moneyhands, Horn3ys, and Forts (3 former corps coordinators) can feign outrage all they want. The corps campuses were nothing but INDOCTRINATION CAMPS and headquarters was its CULT COMPOUND.
Go ahead, tho........and wallow in your way-daze nostalgia. Pat yourselves on the back for "standing with wierwille."
Maybe you can go spend time with John Lynn.......ANOTHER former
cultcorps coordinator.Link to comment
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DontWorryBeHappy
During the second half of 1986, I was in the bogus Yuk Twig at HQ. My "assignment" from April to November, 1986, was "Way Corpse Director, Way Corpse In-Residence Coordinator, HQ Oversight of US Trunk with Howard Allen." The elder corpse that year was the 15th. First year in-rez was the 17th. Horneys were "Area Leaders" among the in-Rez corpses at HQ that year. I was their Corpse Director AND corpse Coordinator. I know more than I ever needed to know about these manipulative little horny bastids. LOL! After I left in December that year, and became the seed-boy possesso, da forehead made it his mission to get all the in-rez corpse whom I had corrupted and opened to the billions of debbil spurts that are ALWAYS all over new Knoxville and every "root locale". The horneys were among his most loyal and "lockbox" sycophants and co-participators.
As far as Michael Blowhard Fort,....don't even get me started! I've known him since he was the loudmouth asshole courting coward allen's oldest child, and taking advantage of every nepotistic advantage bestowed upon him once he married her. TOTAL ASSHOLE! My disdain for Boob and Doody has been a matter of record here since 2000.
These jerks are among the most insignificant self-important delusional sociopaths and Elmer Gantrys fundamentalist "Christianity" has every crapped on the innocents.
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