PFAL '77 was conceived and designed to replace the pfal '67 film class. As I understood it, ten years of wierwille in a skinny tie needed a REMAKE. Some were shocked at roa to see the older wierwille. The a/v department had grown in leaps and bounds and was ready to tackle this project and air-brush the older wierwille.Besides, there were a few gaffes in pfal.....the one where vpw gets all excited and exclaims, "When he comes back...he (Jesus) is coming back as God Almighty!"
Remember all the a/v sound checks at PFAL '77....?
Remember all the instructions to the audience....?
Remember the different camera angles, the outdoor shots...?
Remember the Bud Morgan documentary of the Stauhal family....?
In the end......the PFAL '77 class was not deemed as good as the old version.
In the end......wierwille had not taught this material to improve its substance.
In the end......twi leadership "voted" to stay the course with the '67 class.
In the end......"performance" seemed to be the deciding vote.
Twi decided to stick with the skinny-tie version and enshine it. In weighing the two side-by-side, wierwille was unable to match the enthusiasm and "they don't pay me for my jokes" spiel of the '67 class. After all, this was the class where wierwille "sacrificed" the intensity of the glaring lights to teach his people. Years later, this statement would be played over and over......as wierwille lost his eye.
PFAL 77 did result in the 'Changed' film, which may be the most effective, well produced outreach tool the way ever had. That it was produced by Bud Morgan, a professional with no way indoctrination MAY have had something to do with that.
It was just about the only thing that didn't make me cringe at the good old 'public exes'.
I was in residence at Emporia 75/76 prior to PFAL '77. While H.E. Wierwille would say the new class would replace the '67 version, later in the year Bob W. made a public announcement that it would not. So, going into PFAL '77 it was already decided it would not be a replacement. The reason given, and I'm not saying it's true, was that it was believed they already had something that worked well (in the '67 class) so it wouldn't be prudent to replace it.
AFter PFAL '77 at a "Day in the Word", VP mentioned that he didn't think he had the discipline to do another class and that it was hard work. He really did say that in public even, I'm not making that up. If I'm not mistaken I think I remember him saying he wasn't sure if he had the stamina to do it again either. That second statment I'm not completely sure about. I vividly recall the first one, however.
The decision to NOT use the new PFAL’77 to replace the 1967 film class was made by Dr. Wierwille alone, and he made it about 5 days before the new class started. I was in the BRC basement at lunch when he came in and announced this decision, and I remember it very well as a pivotal moment.
He noted that this decision was contrary to what all of the upper leadership wanted. He said it was by revelation. He said that he was incapable of doing again what had been done in 1967, and that God said the old class would do the job just fine. He said a lot more as well, which I previously reported here years ago.
A few days later, at the Sunday night service, one day before the start of PFAL ’77, he repeated many of these lunchroom remarks. Some of what he said that night was in the evening’s announcements and may possibly have been included on the “full service” version of the SNS tape of that week. But, for sure, some of what he said that night DID get recorded in the teaching section and is still there on tape. The tape is SNS #865, titled “Masters of the Word” from June 12, 1977.
He noted that this decision was contrary to what all of the upper leadership wanted.
I've seen reports of similar statements by Wierwille, more often in regard to research. Why would a leader put down his top follower/leaders in this fashion? Puff himself up maybe?
I've seen reports of similar statements by Wierwille, more often in regard to research. Why would a leader put down his top follower/leaders in this fashion? Puff himself up maybe?
I can think of another reason, and it's one I prefer. It's because God spoke contrary to what the other leaders were saying.
As I've posted long ago on this, at that BRC lunch Dr made it abundantly clear that God first told him to scrub PFAL'77 entirely. Then, as he obeyed and told us this, it seems that the revelation changed and he was given the "go-ahead" to do the class, but not as a replacement for the old class.
Since were tossing around reasons, how's about this one?
I know quite a few people who rearranged their lives and traveled great distances to attend PLAF (The Wonder Class), 1977. You know why they did that? It was because they wanted to be a part of what was being hyped as a monumental moment in the history of mankind. Bait and switch, my friends. Instead of being part of some great historical event, they got duped into buying yet another in a long string of revenue generating classes. Revelation my butt. I've seen pet rocks that get more revelation than that old horn-dog ever did.
I can think of another reason, and it's one I prefer. It's because God spoke contrary to what the other leaders were saying.
Oh, so it's God that wants to publicly put down the so-called top leaders?
If the "leaders" said one thing, and apparently Wierwille was saying it too, then God tells Wierwille otherwise, why wouldn't Wierwille just tell the leaders "Hey guys, God told me that it wasn't going to replace the original PFAL...let's move on" - but no, he has to point out how he's getting revelation and everyone else was wrong, but he, the mighty Wierwille was talking to God...geez, the ego...
As I've posted long ago on this, at that BRC lunch Dr made it abundantly clear that God first told him to scrub PFAL'77 entirely. Then, as he obeyed and told us this, it seems that the revelation changed and he was given the "go-ahead" to do the class, but not as a replacement for the old class.
Yes, it was abundantly clear that he couldn't make up his friggin' mind and was putting the blame on God.
asides from some "rousing" tunes and such from way productions.. the snippets of sessions I've seen really were lame.. or more lame and less convincing than the earlier days..
maybe he took an honest look at it.. and realized in a marketable sense, it would be a failure..
"well, keeds.. thanks and all, but gawd (me) says we need to stick with the old schtick.."
I think you're trying too hard to "protect" the upper leadership. They were not at all attacked nor put down.
At that lunch meeting Dr was relatively "put down" himself. He fully admitted he couldn't do it again, because he was at that exact time viewing the original class for his first time. The revelation was that the "re-do" idea was not of God, and Dr was humiliated himself, in that he allowed everyone to talk him into it. He admitted there that he did NOT have God's "go-ahead" on the project. The revelation was that the 1967 film class WAS of God and would do the job.
I'm very GLAD they kept the 1967 class. It's still hot today, 33 years after the lunchroom incident, and 43 years after the filming. I know of nothing in the clone ministries that comes even close. The mediocrity of ALL the clone classes attests to the validity of the revelation.
***
dmiller,
Howdy. Nice to see you again too, and Oakspear as well!
In a long gone thread I once posted here the entire transcript of that SNS tape, "Masters of the Word." I can send that transcript to you by e-mail if you want.
Plus, some grads in Colorado ten years ago amassed and MP3ed ALL of Dr's SNS teachings and his Tape of the Month teachings into one 17 CD set and are still selling it for 88 bucks. The SNS tapes were never copyrighted so they are totally legal, and findable, maybe even via a Google search. I've seen them advertized on grad websites.
If you want I can send you an mp3 of said teaching. Send me your e-address via PM. I don't know if or how to send an attachment via GreaseSpot PMs.
Howdy. Nice to see you again too, and Oakspear as well!
In a long gone thread I once posted here the entire transcript of that SNS tape, "Masters of the Word." I can send that transcript to you by e-mail if you want.
Plus, some grads in Colorado ten years ago amassed and MP3ed ALL of Dr's SNS teachings and his Tape of the Month teachings into one 17 CD set and are still selling it for 88 bucks. The SNS tapes were never copyrighted so they are totally legal, and findable, maybe even via a Google search. I've seen them advertized on grad websites.
If you want I can send you an mp3 of said teaching. Send me your e-address via PM. I don't know if or how to send an attachment via GreaseSpot PMs.
Thanks for the offer Mike, but I'll pass. I remember you telling me in the "old days" here at GSC in chat (when chat was a separate forum unto itself and independent of the regular forums) about the the CD compilations. If I recollect correct, I told you about Rev. Richter here in Minnesota, and you were able to get hold of him and talk about "Doctor's Last Teaching" (I think that's what you called it). Them were the days, eh?
I've moved on in my life, Mike. God's Word is certainly important to me but these days (as I get older), I find it more and more important (to me), to consider any (and all) aspects of "religiosity" instead of just "One" such as we were presented with in twi via the class/ tapes/ magazines/ collaterals/ etc. Shucks. I've attended (since twi) Baptist congregations (several -- with other ex-twi folks who go there regularly)/ have gone to (several) "Community Churches" (evangelical leaning)/ Jewish Messianic congregations/ and Jehovah Witness' meetings as well. Did I learn "Total Truth" from any of them? No. Same as (imo) twi. BUT - - - did I learn SOMETHING FROM THEM? Yes, I did and from ALL of them.
I've got to admit that the first time I walked into a church after leaving twi (I'm thinking it was one of the Baptist ones - - but I'm not sure now since that was two decades or so ago), I had my PFAL- colored glasses on BIG TIME, and was ready to critique and criticize dang near every verse and word the preacher at the podium said, just because I didn't "think he was gonna get it right". Well what do ya know. He "didn't get it right", but that was because of my "Way-Brain". I totally failed to hear the message (whatever it might have been back then), because I was so set on "PROVING HIM WRONG - - - courtesy of pfal and docvic's class".
So - - - the upshot of this little diatribe here is nothing more than: Does ONE PERSON/ OUTFIT (RELIGION) hold the only truth?
At the risk of sounding ignorant (I think this was an lcm'ism) - - - I think not.
Here's a stow-ry for you (as Jonny Lingo used to say):
As willing as I was to "prove that Baptist preacher wrong" (mentally), I was willing to do more than that (physically), when I was at a Jehovah Witness "Memorial Meeting" (their version of the Communion service). For those who don't know, the Jehovah Witnesses will "partake in communion" by passing both the plate and the cup without actually eating the "bread" or drinking the "wine". That privilege is reserved for the 144,000 only, and NO ONE in any local congregation considers themselves worthy of that honor.
Well - - - I was dating an ex-JW lady at the time, she invited me to the service, and I went. When the plate was passed to me and she saw I was reaching for one of the wafers, I got a VERY HARD ELBOW jabbed into my ribs. I had a LOT OF LEARNING TO DO, AND REAL FAST!
The upshot of all this is there's a buncha religious outfits out there that aLL CLAIM TO HAVE THE HANDLE ON "THE TRUTH". My contention is that none of them do, but I'm willing to concede that they've all tapped into parts of it.
Same with Docvic, Mike. It's pretty apparent to me that he got most of his teaching stuff from others who'd done the research work before he did. Some truth? Yes. Total truth? No.
Here's a song that kinda describes me. Perhaps it describes many of us, eh?
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skyrider
PFAL '77 was conceived and designed to replace the pfal '67 film class. As I understood it, ten years of wierwille in a skinny tie needed a REMAKE. Some were shocked at roa to see the older wierwille. The a/v department had grown in leaps and bounds and was ready to tackle this project and air-brush the older wierwille.Besides, there were a few gaffes in pfal.....the one where vpw gets all excited and exclaims, "When he comes back...he (Jesus) is coming back as God Almighty!"
Remember all the a/v sound checks at PFAL '77....?
Remember all the instructions to the audience....?
Remember the different camera angles, the outdoor shots...?
Remember the Bud Morgan documentary of the Stauhal family....?
In the end......the PFAL '77 class was not deemed as good as the old version.
In the end......wierwille had not taught this material to improve its substance.
In the end......twi leadership "voted" to stay the course with the '67 class.
In the end......"performance" seemed to be the deciding vote.
Twi decided to stick with the skinny-tie version and enshine it. In weighing the two side-by-side, wierwille was unable to match the enthusiasm and "they don't pay me for my jokes" spiel of the '67 class. After all, this was the class where wierwille "sacrificed" the intensity of the glaring lights to teach his people. Years later, this statement would be played over and over......as wierwille lost his eye.
Others might know alot more than me.
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hiway29
PFAL 77 did result in the 'Changed' film, which may be the most effective, well produced outreach tool the way ever had. That it was produced by Bud Morgan, a professional with no way indoctrination MAY have had something to do with that.
It was just about the only thing that didn't make me cringe at the good old 'public exes'.
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excathedra
the changed film was much easier to swallow (i mean promote)
i was at that pfal 77, but that's all i know lol
hey d, i miss ya
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Broken Arrow
I was in residence at Emporia 75/76 prior to PFAL '77. While H.E. Wierwille would say the new class would replace the '67 version, later in the year Bob W. made a public announcement that it would not. So, going into PFAL '77 it was already decided it would not be a replacement. The reason given, and I'm not saying it's true, was that it was believed they already had something that worked well (in the '67 class) so it wouldn't be prudent to replace it.
AFter PFAL '77 at a "Day in the Word", VP mentioned that he didn't think he had the discipline to do another class and that it was hard work. He really did say that in public even, I'm not making that up. If I'm not mistaken I think I remember him saying he wasn't sure if he had the stamina to do it again either. That second statment I'm not completely sure about. I vividly recall the first one, however.
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Mike
erkjohn is right.
The decision to NOT use the new PFAL’77 to replace the 1967 film class was made by Dr. Wierwille alone, and he made it about 5 days before the new class started. I was in the BRC basement at lunch when he came in and announced this decision, and I remember it very well as a pivotal moment.
He noted that this decision was contrary to what all of the upper leadership wanted. He said it was by revelation. He said that he was incapable of doing again what had been done in 1967, and that God said the old class would do the job just fine. He said a lot more as well, which I previously reported here years ago.
A few days later, at the Sunday night service, one day before the start of PFAL ’77, he repeated many of these lunchroom remarks. Some of what he said that night was in the evening’s announcements and may possibly have been included on the “full service” version of the SNS tape of that week. But, for sure, some of what he said that night DID get recorded in the teaching section and is still there on tape. The tape is SNS #865, titled “Masters of the Word” from June 12, 1977.
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Oakspear
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Mike
I can think of another reason, and it's one I prefer. It's because God spoke contrary to what the other leaders were saying.
As I've posted long ago on this, at that BRC lunch Dr made it abundantly clear that God first told him to scrub PFAL'77 entirely. Then, as he obeyed and told us this, it seems that the revelation changed and he was given the "go-ahead" to do the class, but not as a replacement for the old class.
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waysider
Since were tossing around reasons, how's about this one?
I know quite a few people who rearranged their lives and traveled great distances to attend PLAF (The Wonder Class), 1977. You know why they did that? It was because they wanted to be a part of what was being hyped as a monumental moment in the history of mankind. Bait and switch, my friends. Instead of being part of some great historical event, they got duped into buying yet another in a long string of revenue generating classes. Revelation my butt. I've seen pet rocks that get more revelation than that old horn-dog ever did.
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excathedra
well, revelation changes and all that. if people can't handle it, there's the door
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waysider
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skyrider
Yeah......"revelation" changes when the dick-tator is drunk, hung-over or somewhere in-between.
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Ham
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irisheyes
Heck, I needed a good laugh to end a great day!
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Jim
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Oakspear
If the "leaders" said one thing, and apparently Wierwille was saying it too, then God tells Wierwille otherwise, why wouldn't Wierwille just tell the leaders "Hey guys, God told me that it wasn't going to replace the original PFAL...let's move on" - but no, he has to point out how he's getting revelation and everyone else was wrong, but he, the mighty Wierwille was talking to God...geez, the ego...
Yes, it was abundantly clear that he couldn't make up his friggin' mind and was putting the blame on God."Doctor"...
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waysider
We all know he wasn't really a "Dr.", right?
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Ham
or that he couldn't really "perform" anymore and needed a convenient reason to can the project..
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Ham
asides from some "rousing" tunes and such from way productions.. the snippets of sessions I've seen really were lame.. or more lame and less convincing than the earlier days..
maybe he took an honest look at it.. and realized in a marketable sense, it would be a failure..
"well, keeds.. thanks and all, but gawd (me) says we need to stick with the old schtick.."
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Ham
That my friend.. and I say that sincerely.
Is the reason you cannot seem to really consider..
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dmiller
Hey there Mike! Long time no see.
How's things out on the West Coast? Thanks for your comments about the meeting you were at.
I'm pretty sure I have SNS tape #865 kicking around the house somewhere here. I'll see if I can roust it out, and give it a listen.
Now - - - where did I leave my cassette tape player?? Oh yea! Right next to the 8-track tape player and the betamax video machine!
Seriously - - - I'll see if I can't find the tape. I haven't listened to any of them for nigh on 20 years now. I wonder if they still work?
Thanks to everyone else also (did I get the "ALSO" in the right place?) who took time to respond. It's appreciated.
The only news we ever got about the "ministry" up here was heard third hand from others who had heard it second hand.
Shucks - - it seems the further one was from the "seat of revelation", the less the "real" info was shared or known.
Most of us who trekked on down from northern Minney-soda knew none of this until day 2 (or so) after being there.
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Mike
Oakspear,
I think you're trying too hard to "protect" the upper leadership. They were not at all attacked nor put down.
At that lunch meeting Dr was relatively "put down" himself. He fully admitted he couldn't do it again, because he was at that exact time viewing the original class for his first time. The revelation was that the "re-do" idea was not of God, and Dr was humiliated himself, in that he allowed everyone to talk him into it. He admitted there that he did NOT have God's "go-ahead" on the project. The revelation was that the 1967 film class WAS of God and would do the job.
I'm very GLAD they kept the 1967 class. It's still hot today, 33 years after the lunchroom incident, and 43 years after the filming. I know of nothing in the clone ministries that comes even close. The mediocrity of ALL the clone classes attests to the validity of the revelation.
***
dmiller,
Howdy. Nice to see you again too, and Oakspear as well!
In a long gone thread I once posted here the entire transcript of that SNS tape, "Masters of the Word." I can send that transcript to you by e-mail if you want.
Plus, some grads in Colorado ten years ago amassed and MP3ed ALL of Dr's SNS teachings and his Tape of the Month teachings into one 17 CD set and are still selling it for 88 bucks. The SNS tapes were never copyrighted so they are totally legal, and findable, maybe even via a Google search. I've seen them advertized on grad websites.
If you want I can send you an mp3 of said teaching. Send me your e-address via PM. I don't know if or how to send an attachment via GreaseSpot PMs.
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dmiller
Thanks for the offer Mike, but I'll pass. I remember you telling me in the "old days" here at GSC in chat (when chat was a separate forum unto itself and independent of the regular forums) about the the CD compilations. If I recollect correct, I told you about Rev. Richter here in Minnesota, and you were able to get hold of him and talk about "Doctor's Last Teaching" (I think that's what you called it). Them were the days, eh?
I've moved on in my life, Mike. God's Word is certainly important to me but these days (as I get older), I find it more and more important (to me), to consider any (and all) aspects of "religiosity" instead of just "One" such as we were presented with in twi via the class/ tapes/ magazines/ collaterals/ etc. Shucks. I've attended (since twi) Baptist congregations (several -- with other ex-twi folks who go there regularly)/ have gone to (several) "Community Churches" (evangelical leaning)/ Jewish Messianic congregations/ and Jehovah Witness' meetings as well. Did I learn "Total Truth" from any of them? No. Same as (imo) twi. BUT - - - did I learn SOMETHING FROM THEM? Yes, I did and from ALL of them.
I've got to admit that the first time I walked into a church after leaving twi (I'm thinking it was one of the Baptist ones - - but I'm not sure now since that was two decades or so ago), I had my PFAL- colored glasses on BIG TIME, and was ready to critique and criticize dang near every verse and word the preacher at the podium said, just because I didn't "think he was gonna get it right". Well what do ya know. He "didn't get it right", but that was because of my "Way-Brain". I totally failed to hear the message (whatever it might have been back then), because I was so set on "PROVING HIM WRONG - - - courtesy of pfal and docvic's class".
So - - - the upshot of this little diatribe here is nothing more than: Does ONE PERSON/ OUTFIT (RELIGION) hold the only truth?
At the risk of sounding ignorant (I think this was an lcm'ism) - - - I think not.
Here's a stow-ry for you (as Jonny Lingo used to say):
As willing as I was to "prove that Baptist preacher wrong" (mentally), I was willing to do more than that (physically), when I was at a Jehovah Witness "Memorial Meeting" (their version of the Communion service). For those who don't know, the Jehovah Witnesses will "partake in communion" by passing both the plate and the cup without actually eating the "bread" or drinking the "wine". That privilege is reserved for the 144,000 only, and NO ONE in any local congregation considers themselves worthy of that honor.
Well - - - I was dating an ex-JW lady at the time, she invited me to the service, and I went. When the plate was passed to me and she saw I was reaching for one of the wafers, I got a VERY HARD ELBOW jabbed into my ribs. I had a LOT OF LEARNING TO DO, AND REAL FAST!
The upshot of all this is there's a buncha religious outfits out there that aLL CLAIM TO HAVE THE HANDLE ON "THE TRUTH". My contention is that none of them do, but I'm willing to concede that they've all tapped into parts of it.
Same with Docvic, Mike. It's pretty apparent to me that he got most of his teaching stuff from others who'd done the research work before he did. Some truth? Yes. Total truth? No.
Here's a song that kinda describes me. Perhaps it describes many of us, eh?
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dmiller
Dang!! I think I just derailed my own thread, and royally at that!
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Broken Arrow
All hail the almighty class!! Still hot today, eh? TWI must be hiding their numbers.
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