lcm's teaching style in his class

[Bolshevik]

Remember lcm's foundational class we were obligated to take? There was one scene, I don't remember which segment, but he started to get worked up like he'd usually do, and then bit his tongue, nodded his head and paused and gave a quick smirk, then moved on. It seemed everyone watching either started to laugh or at least smiled. People back then lived for lcm's rants. Here he was trying to be more controlled. Why?

I think the rank and file answer is so he doesn't scare the new people too much. New people are stupid and not thinking spuritually yet. Normally, we're not getting to the depth of something until faces are red and spit is flying.

Was the class filmed after some of the sex scandals came to the director's attention? I know rosie, her q-tip holiness, was a major player in filming the class. So who was in charge of the class lcm, or rosie? Another?

[bowtwi]

I wasn't subjected to that "class," but my first thought was that he was setting himself up for later being able to say that he was getting revelation from God to pipe down and not "tell all he knew."

[waysider]

I wasn't subjected to that "class," but my first thought was that he was setting himself up for later being able to say that he was getting revelation from God to pipe down and not "tell all he knew."

That was one of VPW's little gimmicks, wasn't it?

[Bolshevik]

That was one of VPW's little gimmicks, wasn't it?

lcm is not vpw

[WordWolf]

That was one of VPW's little gimmicks, wasn't it?

vpw documented that one in Whiteside's book. Of course, he said nothing about it being a gimmick-

he said there's times God won't permit him to explain further...

[Gen-2]

Remember lcm's foundational class we were obligated to take? There was one scene, I don't remember which segment, but he started to get worked up like he'd usually do, and then bit his tongue, nodded his head and paused and gave a quick smirk, then moved on. It seemed everyone watching either started to laugh or at least smiled. People back then lived for lcm's rants. Here he was trying to be more controlled. Why?

I think the rank and file answer is so he doesn't scare the new people too much. New people are stupid and not thinking spuritually yet. Normally, we're not getting to the depth of something until faces are red and spit is flying.

Was the class filmed after some of the sex scandals came to the director's attention? I know rosie, her q-tip holiness, was a major player in filming the class. So who was in charge of the class lcm, or rosie? Another?

Just curious,... How many "Basic" classes were there? ...along the way.... I didn't know Martindale made one.

[Bolshevik]

Just curious,... How many "Basic" classes were there? ...along the way.... I didn't know Martindale made one.

foundational, intermediate, advanced

defeating the dork, sex is great, rise and explosion were others 'basic' I guess

these have been remade a few times. . . there are others

[excathedra]

what losers

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Just curious,... How many "Basic" classes were there? ...along the way.... I didn't know Martindale made one.

VPW, of course, had his foundational (as well as intermediate and advanced) PFAL class.

Martindale first re-did the advanced PFAL class, and then tossed them all for his Way of Abundance and Power (WAP) series (foundational, intermediate, advanced).

I was gone before LCM was tossed, so I don't know what the class is now. I seem to recall that PFAL is taught now, but with several teachers recording individual segments.

George

[WordWolf]

Just curious,... How many "Basic" classes were there? ...along the way.... I didn't know Martindale made one.

Here's all the "basic" classes, in order.

1) BG Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class.

It completely predates victor paul wierwille, the way international, and so on.

Leonard taught a class about the Holy Spirit- a "How To" class, targeted towards ministers

primarily, with the intention that these better-trained ministers would return to their

congregations and minister to them more effectively. (The End.)

In Spring of 1953, vpw heard about that class, and went up to Canada, interrupting one in progress and demanding

to be included, which Leonard permitted. vpw then retook the next class, and brought along a few

people to take it as new students.

(This class was, and still is, in effect, Basic, Intermediate and Advanced.)

2) "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today."

In Fall of 1953, vpw asked Leonard for permission to reteach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis,

which Leonard permitted. Leonard also received a photo of that class for his photo collection.

Meanwhile, vpw ran that class, mentioned nothing of Leonard (whose class it was, word-for-word,

down to the vocal inflections), and said it was his OWN class. (He kept a photo of the class for

his own photo collection.) vpw continued to teach Leonard's class with his own name on it,

never telling Leonard. As a class textbook, he used a book of the same name. This book was

basically a retyping of JE Stiles book on the Gift of the Holy Spirit. That the classes were

identical is even more obvious when one notes that vpw considered the students who took

Leonard's class to automatically be considered grads of "his" class as well.

3) "Power for Abundant Living."

In the years following, vpw made cosmetic changes to Leonard's work and Stiles' work. He also

added material from others, including EW Kenyon (mostly Word-Faith material on "believing")

and large amounts of material from EW Bullinger, especially his book on "How to Enjoy the

Bible", which was effectively incorporated fully into the class vpw taught.

He eventually renamed that class "Power For Abundant Living" and divided it into 3 classes-

Foundational, Intermediate, Advanced. Eventually, that class was taped onto audio and

video. Previously, only vpw and one or 2 others (Del Dunc@n) were permitted to teach it,

and did so live.

4) "Way of Abundance and Power."

After vpw's death, l craig martindale put his stamp on everything the way international did.

(Before vpw's death, too. He showed up in nearly everything Way Productions did, culminating

in playing the lead role in the ripoff of "Satan's Alley" he called "Athletes of the Spirit"

(a phrase he ripped off the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.")

It was only a matter of time before he ripped off vpw's pfal class and replaced it with his

own, instructing people to destroy the old class.

lcm's wap class was far weaker than pfal was. lcm had less style, and less substance.

He inserted bizarre topics, and changed things vpw taught for reasons left to speculation.

This class cause twi to lose more people, because rank-and-file had little confidence in it.

They addressed its weaknesses to their local leadership, who stamped out discussion like forest

fires. "The Board of Trustees approved it, that's good enough for me", despite some errors

being quite glaring. The most obvious one is where lcm claims "original sin" was homosexuality,

and lcm tortures Genesis 3 until he claims Eve had carnal relations with the devil in the form

of a woman, with Adam also taking part. (Much discussion has ensued about lcm's seeming

fascination with the idea of a man partaking in a threesome with 2 women.)

IIRC, it's also where they tortured one verse into saying that ANY form of financial debt

is evil and DEMANDED all twi'ers terminate mortgages, get rid of car leases, etc.

twi doesn't push that one so loudly anymore- so many people have documented how stupid it is-

but they still soft-pedal it and it's still an issue when the public isn't looking.

[Edited to add: all versions of wap are divided into Foundational, Intermediate

and Advanced, just like pfal was.]

5) "Way of Abundance and Power" lite.

After lcm was canned/"forced to resign" because he got caught molesting and raping women,

twi had people locally teach his class, not using his tapes. They soft-pedaled the more ridiculous

stuff, covering it quickly and moving on to other material, but they still included it.

6) "Way of Abundance and Power", version 2.

That's the current version, with 3 different twi people recording different sessions.

It's essentially the lite version on tape, but I hear they don't include telling people

they teach the original sin threesome and that all debt is evil.

(Those are instead snuck in AFTER the person has taken wap.)

Please note that wap began a policy where 3 people was the minimum to run a class,

where 7 used to be the minimum for pfal. Even so, there were usually 2 pfal Foundational

classes locally per year, whereas wap barely runs once per year, even with only needing

3 new people. Oh, and wap is a REQUIREMENT. If you took pfal, it no longer counts as

a prerequisite towards ANYTHING. In fact, it's treated as a detriment.

===================

The Others-Splinter Versions.

Please note that various splinter groups have taught their own classes, some of them

still doing so. Some people still run recorded pfal classes done by vpw. Others have

taught that class live, with names like "Power for Victorious Living" and so on,

and other iterations have been made, with more than cosmetic changes but including

much of the pfal material. Vince Finnegan taped "His Story" and Chris Geer has his

own class, "Walking in God's Power." I'm sure there's others. None of these classes are

ever advertised online- as if the teachers are AFRAID TO BE NOTICED, or are

AFRAID TO DRAW SCRUTINY, possibly because they use vpw's class extensively and

never mention HIS name, just as vpw used Leonard's class and never mentioned HIM.

Edited March 14, 2010 by WordWolf

[Bolshevik]

Remember lcm's foundational class we were obligated to take? There was one scene, I don't remember which segment, but he started to get worked up like he'd usually do, and then bit his tongue, nodded his head and paused and gave a quick smirk, then moved on. It seemed everyone watching either started to laugh or at least smiled. People back then lived for lcm's rants. Here he was trying to be more controlled. Why?

I think the rank and file answer is so he doesn't scare the new people too much. New people are stupid and not thinking spuritually yet. Normally, we're not getting to the depth of something until faces are red and spit is flying.

Was the class filmed after some of the sex scandals came to the director's attention? I know rosie, her q-tip holiness, was a major player in filming the class. So who was in charge of the class lcm, or rosie? Another?

So, uh, was anyone here around for this?

[Oakspear]

So, uh, was anyone here around for this?

I was

[Bolshevik]

I was

cool

[excathedra]

i was not

sniff

[Gen-2]

Thanks WordWolf, that's exactly what I was wanting to know. The only one I knew about for sure (and have seen) was the Weirwille One that looked quite old, although I knew there was a current one as well.

[Bolshevik]

i was not

sniff

that's okay . . . did you ever see leash marks on his neck though?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I was around for the WAP class. I don't remember any particular point where LCM appeared to restrain himself, by biting his tongue or any other means! :lol:

George

[Twinky]

I was there when he was teaching some Class live - Adv Class? DTA? Started out teaching it to the in-rez WC live (in the auditorium) but after a few sessions shifted the Corps to the room at the side (to the left as you enter the aud).

Said this was because he was "teaching to the needs of the Corps" rather than teaching to wider more general needs that was appropriate to a class to be widely released (those weren't his words but the general import of what he said).

I guess he might be right on that. Anyone presenting a lecture, show, play, whatever, does to some extent feed off the audience response...even though the WC was ordered to be silent.

I do remember him getting het up about ...who knows what? being "spiritually angry" about something. Perhaps that was coming through in what he was teaching when the WC was present.

[Bolshevik]

Oh, I'm referring to his filmed foundational class, saw it a number of times. You'd think they'd have caught that, with their detailed frontal lobes and all.

[TheHighWay]

I was around for the WAP class. I don't remember any particular point where LCM appeared to restrain himself, by biting his tongue or any other means! :lol:

Ditto, George... and I sat through it twice!! The first time was required for all standing grads. The second was right before I left twi, after having spent a great deal of time on WayDale clearing out the cobwebs. I volunteered to work the class so I could sit through it sans way-brain. I put a check-mark next to any Biblical passage where Craig taught one thing but that I knew from first-hand experience they practiced something entirely different... my syllabus was full of check-marks. (imagine that)

Twinky... I remember hearing that Craig started out teaching in front of a live (albeit silenced) audience and then decided to stop. We were told just what you were, that he wanted to focus on the 'broader' audience that 'would be'... But I suspect that even though they were told to be silent, there were some shocked and confused expressions in that audience that ol' Craiggers found distracting, and that's why he had them removed. Trust me, any time that guy could corral a live audience he was up for it!

[WordWolf]

I think this older thread about the wap class, the "way of abundance and power" class,

explains it.

lcm had poor impulse control, ego problems, and lacked the brains and skill to snow

people like vpw did. So when he taught wap, it was nonsensical, disjointed,

error-ridden, easily disproven, and bizarre.

People in the audience could be seen looking at him like he was an idiot, whenever

he spouted off some nonsense. That's why he added a comment to his silly "explanation"

about the original sin being a threesome with the supposedly clever

"Don't see it? Too bad-I do!" As if his opinion was the only one that mattered, and

disagreement was to be stomped out and didn't count at all.

He also flew off the handle a number of times, telling people that if they didn't

like what he was teaching, to "go to church"- investing that phrase with the context

of jumping into the effluvia of some sewage plant, as if sitting through church really

was worse than sitting through lcm's class.

[Ham]

lcm had poor impulse control, ego problems, and lacked the brains and skill to snow

people like vpw did. So when he taught wap, it was nonsensical, disjointed,

error-ridden, easily disproven, and bizarre.

Nobody's perfect I guess..

[Bolshevik]

I think this older thread about the wap class, the "way of abundance and power" class,

explains it.

lcm had poor impulse control, ego problems, and lacked the brains and skill to snow

people like vpw did. So when he taught wap, it was nonsensical, disjointed,

error-ridden, easily disproven, and bizarre.

People in the audience could be seen looking at him like he was an idiot, whenever

he spouted off some nonsense. That's why he added a comment to his silly "explanation"

about the original sin being a threesome with the supposedly clever

"Don't see it? Too bad-I do!" As if his opinion was the only one that mattered, and

disagreement was to be stomped out and didn't count at all.

He also flew off the handle a number of times, telling people that if they didn't

like what he was teaching, to "go to church"- investing that phrase with the context

of jumping into the effluvia of some sewage plant, as if sitting through church really

was worse than sitting through lcm's class.

And Rosie probably understood that? Or is that giving her too much credit?

[crystalclearblue]

I got some peole to sign up for it in my city. They just stared at me when Loyster got to the part he rewrote about Eve. I'm glad my city is big enough to not run into these people often. Whatever friendship I had with them was gone after they asked me about it and I condoned it. They wrote me off as a whack-a-doo.

[Oakspear]

Twinky... I remember hearing that Craig started out teaching in front of a live (albeit silenced) audience and then decided to stop.

As I recall, when he taught Defeating the Adversary it was in front of a live audience (I was there) but decided to do the subsequent classes without an audience. That's just my rememberance though...could be wrong.