quote:The Way has become a ministry of Lists and Techiniques. Everything in the bible is taken out of it's context and made to fit in to some list to do this, another list for victorious that. It's like a freakin' self help group but without the help. As long as they get up in the morning and start ticking off something on a list of "keys for the effectual walk of power", they know they're on track, in fellowship, aligned, harmonized and on point. Their goal seems to be "Successful Living Through Micro-Management of Every Non-Essential Detail in Life". Meanwhile the important things slip away. If it didn't hurt people, it would be funny.
Poetry, pure poetry! I'd love to add a comment, but you said it all my friend. Thank you!
Jim, sorry to paint with such a broad brush but every corporate lawyer I have ever met had one thing in common....admit nothing (or if you do make sure it is in your best interest).
Now that doesn't mean all corporations operate that way but I would be willing to guess most attornies would advise their corporate clients to follow similar advice.
Al Hendrickson
P.S. my point being that TWI is more corporate than Christian so they use a cold hard business calculation when dealing with people.
The heart and soul of Weirwillianism is based on a constellation of easily-disprovable lies. Yet the more these egregiously self-serving and sordid lies are demonstrated, the more tenaciously glassy-eyed Weirwille worshippers defend them. Mr. Weirwille actually had the correct idea all along for Weirwillianism to prosper and flourish:
Don't allow debate.
Simply cutting off debate is after all a morally superior defense mechanism to encouraging lying in defense.
I believe Ginger did say it about being free from lies.
That means to me to not have to lie, really ever .
my boss calls it "confidence", knowing I am important and loved has alot to do with not lying to impress others.
I do impress people with me just me not a sugar coated me .
To know this allows me to be free to be who I am.
mistakes oh yes I make mistakes and I learn that is life, for everyone.
I notice when people lie it never really ends they even lie to their own selves about what is important who is important to them .
what kind of life is that?
where does it end?
sometimes I get nervous thinking I am the only one who will admit the truth in a situation but I muster my courage and state the truth and every time it gives someone eles the nerve to say it as well and then love and harmony and respect is generated among one another. truth .
Most know when we lie and even if they join in they now classify you as a liar as well.
naw I would rather go down with the good guys .
sometimes I do not volunteer information and say I do not know all the facts when it is a personal or of a opinion that could change .
I got M@A because I told the truth about some one.
so I guess that answers the question about whether it was taught or not yes it was encouraged because if the truth be told a lot of the abuse would have been known instead of moved to another area or ignored.
Very good point Larry P-- a control issue for sure.
I remember quite a few lies, one was from To* Horro*** when we asked about Pa** Mosqu****'* resignation. We were told ..."he was upset he wasn't called to HQ so he quit to start his own internet ministry".....
Ha- that was so transparent it wasn't even funny.
Another meeting with the same TH guy....he started off sayinghe knew nothing bad about anything....(when in fact he was fully aware of the Colorado Lawsuit --a custody case where testimony regarding LCM's sex abuses were documented) ...and then by the end of the same meeting..he was spitting while speaking and standing over my husband and I saying he was so spiritual and knew more than we would ever know. Of course he didn't know we knew as much ifnot even more than him by the time this meeting had occured. But--lying was standard operating procedure.
and what about the lies regarding every other good leader that confronted LCM....like the Clapps, all kinds of BS was spread by the way about them....
So it wasn't just lying, it was lying with the intent of defaming.
[This message was edited by washingtonweather on December 18, 2002 at 9:33.]
quote: sometimes I get nervous thinking I am the only one who will admit the truth in a situation but I muster my courage and state the truth and every time it gives someone eles the nerve to say it as well and then love and harmony and respect is generated among one another. truth .
So many times we held back in TWI. We didn't speak up when things were blatantly wrong. We feared the wrath of the reproof. Or if someone had the balls to speak-up, it was taken, but usually with a 'BUT'. Usually some leadership personality would come in and say that the 'speaking up' had some merit, BUT it wasn't done at the right time, or with the right people present, or with the right intent, or the with the right spiritual slant, blah, blah, blah, blah. That usually left you completely second guessing yourself and you'd end up the next time just shutting up and putting up.
Thanks GS for letting me speak the truth!
'til the next time...
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on December 18, 2002 at 22:07.]
93-94 WOW year and a WOW in our team was faced with a problem of working to many hours one week. It was quite a simple problem as the company was restructuring and changing the way that they scheduled and how their pay periods worked. Being a good lil WOW she thought as it wasn?t a big deal, more of a technicality than really to many hours; she asked our WC WOW leader.
She couldn?t quit over it as that would break her commitment just as working that extra 5 hrs would. This went all the way to headquarters and the simple solution came back from the *top*............................... call in sick! ?Wouldn?t that be lying????? No that will be keeping your commitment!!!!!!
She really pushed the matter how she thought it was wrong to say she was sick when she wasn?t. She could do what they said and that would be *obeying* and keeping her commitment and that was what was important.
quote: 93-94 WOW year and a WOW in our team was faced with a problem of working to many hours one week. It was quite a simple problem as the company was restructuring and changing the way that they scheduled and how their pay periods worked. Being a good lil WOW she thought as it wasn?t a big deal, more of a technicality than really to many hours; she asked our WC WOW leader.
She couldn?t quit over it as that would break her commitment just as working that extra 5 hrs would. This went all the way to headquarters and the simple solution came back from the *top*............................... call in sick! ?Wouldn?t that be lying????? No that will be keeping your commitment!!!!!!
I believe the answer to this problem was completely overlooked. Instead of TWI realizing that their 'rules' on the WOW field were 'guidelines' and not etched in stone, those Wows could have been given the permission to work the extra hours for that week.
But IMO, TWI is so caught up in their pettiness and all their regulations that they have to cover their A$$es. What was important to them? The individual or their program rules?
Often, when people are so caught up in their anal thinking, they corner themselves like this. And so, to save face, they do anything, lie, cheat, deny, anything to save their precious hides.
God does not live in a box. IMO, TWI desperately tries to keep him locked in one.
I witnessed to a guy and was undersheparding him. I spent my Saturday afternoons and evenings with him, which was our designated free time. I was a good wow and always behaved like one. I loved being a wow.
This guy happened to live about 10 feet outside the city limits sign. When my team coordinator found that out, she told me that I was not to go to his house anymore! She told me that I was not allowed outside the city limits, that my commitment was to stay within the city limits! She felt compelled to inform the limb coordinator of my crime.
Then, the lc, who was such a nerd anyway, acted like I was a naughty, disobedient kid!!! I didn't respect him anyways, but this sealed my opinion of him.
I continued to go to my friend's house in my free time and I just didn't say anything about it - heck, he and I stayed friends even after twi didn't want me anymore.
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A la prochaine
Poetry, pure poetry! I'd love to add a comment, but you said it all my friend. Thank you!
'til the next time...
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WyoMan
Jim, sorry to paint with such a broad brush but every corporate lawyer I have ever met had one thing in common....admit nothing (or if you do make sure it is in your best interest).
Now that doesn't mean all corporations operate that way but I would be willing to guess most attornies would advise their corporate clients to follow similar advice.
Al Hendrickson
P.S. my point being that TWI is more corporate than Christian so they use a cold hard business calculation when dealing with people.
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excathedra
i am sorry firebee
i got upset and overreacted
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WyoMan
Am I to assume Ginger Tea you are making a statement about my post?
I hope not because I ain't lying!
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Goey
Sorry
Wrong thread - Carry on.
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Larry P2
The heart and soul of Weirwillianism is based on a constellation of easily-disprovable lies. Yet the more these egregiously self-serving and sordid lies are demonstrated, the more tenaciously glassy-eyed Weirwille worshippers defend them. Mr. Weirwille actually had the correct idea all along for Weirwillianism to prosper and flourish:
Don't allow debate.
Simply cutting off debate is after all a morally superior defense mechanism to encouraging lying in defense.
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mj412
I believe Ginger did say it about being free from lies.
That means to me to not have to lie, really ever .
my boss calls it "confidence", knowing I am important and loved has alot to do with not lying to impress others.
I do impress people with me just me not a sugar coated me .
To know this allows me to be free to be who I am.
mistakes oh yes I make mistakes and I learn that is life, for everyone.
I notice when people lie it never really ends they even lie to their own selves about what is important who is important to them .
what kind of life is that?
where does it end?
sometimes I get nervous thinking I am the only one who will admit the truth in a situation but I muster my courage and state the truth and every time it gives someone eles the nerve to say it as well and then love and harmony and respect is generated among one another. truth .
Most know when we lie and even if they join in they now classify you as a liar as well.
naw I would rather go down with the good guys .
sometimes I do not volunteer information and say I do not know all the facts when it is a personal or of a opinion that could change .
I got M@A because I told the truth about some one.
so I guess that answers the question about whether it was taught or not yes it was encouraged because if the truth be told a lot of the abuse would have been known instead of moved to another area or ignored.
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washingtonweather
Very good point Larry P-- a control issue for sure.
I remember quite a few lies, one was from To* Horro*** when we asked about Pa** Mosqu****'* resignation. We were told ..."he was upset he wasn't called to HQ so he quit to start his own internet ministry".....
Ha- that was so transparent it wasn't even funny.
Another meeting with the same TH guy....he started off sayinghe knew nothing bad about anything....(when in fact he was fully aware of the Colorado Lawsuit --a custody case where testimony regarding LCM's sex abuses were documented) ...and then by the end of the same meeting..he was spitting while speaking and standing over my husband and I saying he was so spiritual and knew more than we would ever know. Of course he didn't know we knew as much ifnot even more than him by the time this meeting had occured. But--lying was standard operating procedure.
and what about the lies regarding every other good leader that confronted LCM....like the Clapps, all kinds of BS was spread by the way about them....
So it wasn't just lying, it was lying with the intent of defaming.
[This message was edited by washingtonweather on December 18, 2002 at 9:33.]
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tomtuttle
Please stand and have the blessing ...
Rev. Ex, was he lying when he blessed our food at gunnijenkinson???
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Oakspear
I just don't have enough time to document it all
Oakspear
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
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A la prochaine
So many times we held back in TWI. We didn't speak up when things were blatantly wrong. We feared the wrath of the reproof. Or if someone had the balls to speak-up, it was taken, but usually with a 'BUT'. Usually some leadership personality would come in and say that the 'speaking up' had some merit, BUT it wasn't done at the right time, or with the right people present, or with the right intent, or the with the right spiritual slant, blah, blah, blah, blah. That usually left you completely second guessing yourself and you'd end up the next time just shutting up and putting up.
Thanks GS for letting me speak the truth!
'til the next time...
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on December 18, 2002 at 22:07.]
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ljn698
we just don't tell all we know!!
like when the cop asks how many drinks did you have you can say none officer (in the last 10 seconds anyway) so you don't tell all you know!
or revelation changes with the circumstances!!
like they say in the thread about M&A TWI claims to have never taught it or practiced it!
history and countless accounts on this site would lead one to believe otherwise, but hey, revelation changes with the circumstances.
two simple principles to remember and you too can be fib free for life just like all the TWI big shots!!!
i'm here to help!!
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tomtuttle
If you lie about a lie, would it then be the truth, or is this the fallacy of negating the consequent???
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excathedra
if one lies not to hurt someone, is that a loving sin?
"honey, how do i look"?
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Grizzy
93-94 WOW year and a WOW in our team was faced with a problem of working to many hours one week. It was quite a simple problem as the company was restructuring and changing the way that they scheduled and how their pay periods worked. Being a good lil WOW she thought as it wasn?t a big deal, more of a technicality than really to many hours; she asked our WC WOW leader.
She couldn?t quit over it as that would break her commitment just as working that extra 5 hrs would. This went all the way to headquarters and the simple solution came back from the *top*............................... call in sick! ?Wouldn?t that be lying????? No that will be keeping your commitment!!!!!!
She really pushed the matter how she thought it was wrong to say she was sick when she wasn?t. She could do what they said and that would be *obeying* and keeping her commitment and that was what was important.
Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>
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Oakspear
Wasn't it Mudd on the original Star Trek series that said "I always lie, in fact I'm lying right now", causing the computer to fry itself?
Oakspear
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
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A la prochaine
I believe the answer to this problem was completely overlooked. Instead of TWI realizing that their 'rules' on the WOW field were 'guidelines' and not etched in stone, those Wows could have been given the permission to work the extra hours for that week.
But IMO, TWI is so caught up in their pettiness and all their regulations that they have to cover their A$$es. What was important to them? The individual or their program rules?
Often, when people are so caught up in their anal thinking, they corner themselves like this. And so, to save face, they do anything, lie, cheat, deny, anything to save their precious hides.
God does not live in a box. IMO, TWI desperately tries to keep him locked in one.
'til the next time...
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bowtwi
I witnessed to a guy and was undersheparding him. I spent my Saturday afternoons and evenings with him, which was our designated free time. I was a good wow and always behaved like one. I loved being a wow.
This guy happened to live about 10 feet outside the city limits sign. When my team coordinator found that out, she told me that I was not to go to his house anymore! She told me that I was not allowed outside the city limits, that my commitment was to stay within the city limits! She felt compelled to inform the limb coordinator of my crime.
Then, the lc, who was such a nerd anyway, acted like I was a naughty, disobedient kid!!! I didn't respect him anyways, but this sealed my opinion of him.
I continued to go to my friend's house in my free time and I just didn't say anything about it - heck, he and I stayed friends even after twi didn't want me anymore.
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A la prochaine
You decided the individual mattered more than that box they were wanting to squeeze you and God into!
Good For You! Now there's a success story if I've ever heard one!
'til the next time...
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