"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but either way milk them for all you can while you've got em fooled."
"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but either way milk them for all you can while you've got em fooled."
In other words, homiletics. And yes, that was his thesis area.
Yeah.. I remember this paper being something about Peter being a front man or something..
has anybody even SEEN this "thesis"?
How many pages.. how well was it developed.. considering it was a "miracle work" of about or less than a year of BOTH supposed course work and dissertation..
and the big question: how much of it was purely "copied"?
Okay this brings up a whole thought track.. and it is related to the fact that I go to college and let me tell you, the professoras share their work. We use my English professors book to study from for one.
Why on earth was his paper (If indeed there ever was one...) why was it not part of Corps training?
Just my two cents on the subject.
and I am right there with Waysider if indeed he ever did a thesis why was he not crediting all of the contributions to his lilfes work...as is proper for an academic endeavor. Or any written work .
Generally speaking - doctoral thesis covers a very esoteric subject in minute detail. It wouldn't be something along the lines of a textbook FWIW, his "collaterals" served as our textbooks.
Why on earth was his paper (If indeed there ever was one...) why was it not part of Corps training?
His degree was from a correspondence school that was run out of a house in Manitou Springs, Colorado. I'm sure whatever work he did for his thesis or dissertation (which I understood his area of study/expertise was homiletics) was buried because if it were made public then it would be available to see how shoddy of a piece of work it was that passed for that level of paper.
I read Don W's thesis once at Emporia. It was on how TWI bought Emporia and turned it into a Biblical college.
If my memory serves me correctly, it was about Peter's preaching style or something like that, something to do with Peter anyway...
I think you are correct. I remember seeing this in Mrs. VPW's biography she wrote "Born Again To Serve". That book had I think the graduation ceremony in it and a couple other artifacts which showed the title at least.
If my memory serves me correctly, it was about Peter's preaching style or something like that, something to do with Peter anyway...
I believe that was his Master's thesis from Princeton(btw, has anyone been able to read it?). Usually for correspondence courses a certificate shows that the person paid for said degree. And I checked out rumors of his being invited to Hardvrd, Yale, Columbia, Oxford, and Cambridge to teach and work on a doctorate in theology which all institutions deny.
I believe that was his Master's thesis from Princeton(btw, has anyone been able to read it?). Usually for correspondence courses a certificate shows that the person paid for said degree. And I checked out rumors of his being invited to Hardvrd, Yale, Columbia, Oxford, and Cambridge to teach and work on a doctorate in theology which all institutions deny.
Just to clarify.... Princeton Theological Seminary..... not to be confused with THE Princeton University.
"Dr. Wierwille received his undergraduate divinity degree at Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary. He afterward studied at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he was awarded a Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. After graduating he was invited to study at Oxford University, in England, but would complete his doctorate sometime later under Dr. H. Ellis Lininger, a well-known homiletician, at the Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College in Manitou Springs, Colorado."
While Wayers proudly call Rev. Wierwille "Doctor, " the biographies in his books never mention the source of his degree (though the wording leads some readers to believe that he received it from Princeton.) Perhaps The Way is embarrassed because Wierwille received his Th.D. in 1948 from Pike's Peak Bible Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado.(28) In its checkered 60 year history, this institution has never been accredited nor recognized as reputable by any agency.(29) Herbert Diamond summarizes the weaknesses of Pike's Peak as an educational institution:
"In a letter from the Colorado Commission on Higher Education, a state official says that Pike's Peak seminary had no resident instruction, no published list of faculty, and no accreditation, and no agency of government supervised it. It offered its degree programs by "extramural..' methods, involving the sending of book reviews and papers by mail. The degrees, the official says, have no status except with the institution that conferred them" ''(30)
Wierwille once defended Pike's Peak Seminary by claiming that its president at the time he attended was Dr. H. Ellis Lininger who "had been the head of the Department of Education for the state of Colorado."(31) While Lininger had been president of Pike's Peak, the Colorado Department of Education informs us that Lininger never did head this department as Wierwille claims.(32)
Wierwille also claims "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses. "(33) Yet, Paul D. Wieland, Director of Moody's correspondence school, contradicts Wierwille's claim. Moody's records contain the names of all students who have completed courses since the school's inception in 1901. Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.(34) During the summer of 1943 Wierwille did serve as a guest professor of practical theology at Gordon Divinity School under the presidency of Dr. Nathan R. Wood.(35)
Wierwille claims that sometime in his ministry, he became so tired of "reading around The Word" of God that he hauled over 3,000 volumes of theological works to the city dump.(36) It is difficult to accept or place this in Wierwille's chronology, since he clearly relies on books and does not offer a date for this occurrence. While this dumping may have happened around 1950, it is evident that he soon accumulated more books, many of them superficial treatments of Scripture topics, which came to dominate his thinking
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JeffSjo
Perhaps it was...
"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but either way milk them for all you can while you've got em fooled."
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Tzaia
I would imagine that the lure of his particular choice for a doctoral degree had something to do with it not having that requirement.
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Ham
Ah yes.. a Doctorate without dissertation, AND coursework.
Makes perfect sense..
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waysider
I wish I could have heard his defense to the review committee.
"You guys will just hafta take my word on it.-----Dat's Riiiiight!"
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chockfull
In other words, homiletics. And yes, that was his thesis area.
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waysider
I know he said he studied homiletics, but did he defend a doctoral dissertation on it?
It seems rather broad in scope, don't you think?
Q. What was your thesis on?
A. Monkeys.
Q. Oh, well that narrows it down.
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Ham
Yeah.. I remember this paper being something about Peter being a front man or something..
has anybody even SEEN this "thesis"?
How many pages.. how well was it developed.. considering it was a "miracle work" of about or less than a year of BOTH supposed course work and dissertation..
and the big question: how much of it was purely "copied"?
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waysider
Now you've gone an opened up the family sized can of worms.
How come a guy who, supposedly, successfully defended a doctoral dissertation forgot all about citation of sources in latter years?
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GrouchoMarxJr
I guess you just had to see it in the original...
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Ham
What original?
first came Stiles.. bullinger.. etc. etc.
then came the clones..
wouldn't surprise me if we found herr doctor's "thesis" somewhere else, in part or in whole..
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waysider
I dunno. I think I'd be surprised if I just FOUND it. period.
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leafytwiglet
Okay this brings up a whole thought track.. and it is related to the fact that I go to college and let me tell you, the professoras share their work. We use my English professors book to study from for one.
Why on earth was his paper (If indeed there ever was one...) why was it not part of Corps training?
Just my two cents on the subject.
and I am right there with Waysider if indeed he ever did a thesis why was he not crediting all of the contributions to his lilfes work...as is proper for an academic endeavor. Or any written work .
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Tzaia
Generally speaking - doctoral thesis covers a very esoteric subject in minute detail. It wouldn't be something along the lines of a textbook FWIW, his "collaterals" served as our textbooks.
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chockfull
His degree was from a correspondence school that was run out of a house in Manitou Springs, Colorado. I'm sure whatever work he did for his thesis or dissertation (which I understood his area of study/expertise was homiletics) was buried because if it were made public then it would be available to see how shoddy of a piece of work it was that passed for that level of paper.
I read Don W's thesis once at Emporia. It was on how TWI bought Emporia and turned it into a Biblical college.
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penworks
If my memory serves me correctly, it was about Peter's preaching style or something like that, something to do with Peter anyway...
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chockfull
I think you are correct. I remember seeing this in Mrs. VPW's biography she wrote "Born Again To Serve". That book had I think the graduation ceremony in it and a couple other artifacts which showed the title at least.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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Belle
Just to clarify.... Princeton Theological Seminary..... not to be confused with THE Princeton University.
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waysider
Yeah. Like Columbia---- (School of Broadcasting)
HeeHee
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Gen-2
"Dr. Wierwille received his undergraduate divinity degree at Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary. He afterward studied at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he was awarded a Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. After graduating he was invited to study at Oxford University, in England, but would complete his doctorate sometime later under Dr. H. Ellis Lininger, a well-known homiletician, at the Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College in Manitou Springs, Colorado."
http://www.biblicalresearchjournal.org/brj-pages_html/001mm04_teachings_vpw.html
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Ham
I just emailed *these people*.. princeton theological seminary et al..
let's see what they have to say..
Their site seemed "kinda weird"..
they offer masters and doctorate programs.. for whatever..
seems no introductory programs.. no math or english proficiency..
we'll see I guess..
which is vewy, vewy interesting. An internet search only will find the name of *mr ellis* accompanied with the name of herr victser..
so how "well known" was this character? Just wonder..
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Gen-2
Other Information (I'm not saying it's correct)
source is: http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/rsr_vcchap1-2.htm
A SCHOLARLY EDUCATION?
While Wayers proudly call Rev. Wierwille "Doctor, " the biographies in his books never mention the source of his degree (though the wording leads some readers to believe that he received it from Princeton.) Perhaps The Way is embarrassed because Wierwille received his Th.D. in 1948 from Pike's Peak Bible Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado.(28) In its checkered 60 year history, this institution has never been accredited nor recognized as reputable by any agency.(29) Herbert Diamond summarizes the weaknesses of Pike's Peak as an educational institution:
"In a letter from the Colorado Commission on Higher Education, a state official says that Pike's Peak seminary had no resident instruction, no published list of faculty, and no accreditation, and no agency of government supervised it. It offered its degree programs by "extramural..' methods, involving the sending of book reviews and papers by mail. The degrees, the official says, have no status except with the institution that conferred them" ''(30)
Wierwille once defended Pike's Peak Seminary by claiming that its president at the time he attended was Dr. H. Ellis Lininger who "had been the head of the Department of Education for the state of Colorado."(31) While Lininger had been president of Pike's Peak, the Colorado Department of Education informs us that Lininger never did head this department as Wierwille claims.(32)
Wierwille also claims "I took everything I could take at the Moody Bible Institute, too, through their correspondence courses. "(33) Yet, Paul D. Wieland, Director of Moody's correspondence school, contradicts Wierwille's claim. Moody's records contain the names of all students who have completed courses since the school's inception in 1901. Wierwille's name never appears, indicating that if he took any courses, he never completed a single one.(34) During the summer of 1943 Wierwille did serve as a guest professor of practical theology at Gordon Divinity School under the presidency of Dr. Nathan R. Wood.(35)
Wierwille claims that sometime in his ministry, he became so tired of "reading around The Word" of God that he hauled over 3,000 volumes of theological works to the city dump.(36) It is difficult to accept or place this in Wierwille's chronology, since he clearly relies on books and does not offer a date for this occurrence. While this dumping may have happened around 1950, it is evident that he soon accumulated more books, many of them superficial treatments of Scripture topics, which came to dominate his thinking
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waysider
Deleted due to duplication
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Ham
I really think, it is as correct, as we are going to get..
No, he was not a "doctor".
not by any conceivable stretch of the imagination..
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