If bad things happen, it's because this is a fallen world, and the sun and the rain
fall on everyone, not because you failed somehow to exert sufficient "believing-force"
to prevent it to happen.
And when bad things happen. . . .and they always do . . . because we live in a fallen world with sin, as WordWolf so aptly points out. When they do. . . . have some FAITH in God. . . .in His sovereign will and His ability to not only give wisdom, deliver, and heal, but, in His ability to grow endurance in us as those He loves. It is all a part of the Cristian life.
God always offers help, but His will and higher ways. . . . may not always conform with what we think it should be. . . . that is when our FAITH in Him is really tested.
That is when He is glorified as God. Think about it.
While Paul, Peter, and Silas were released from prison. . . . James was martyred around the same time. He understood suffering. . . .
I'm really gonna have to trust God and do this soon. He's just gonna have to do His part But I have to do this like within this week.
I don't know what's going on in your life Gen-2, but considering the little bit that you've shared plus the fact you feel like you are up against some form of deadline I can not help but be concerned for you and how this all comes out after it is all said and done.
I refrain from speaking beyond that which I know of your situation because I know nothing of it. And to be frank my experience tells me that their is definitely more ways to make things worse for you than to actually help by shooting my mouth off. But....
I've come to consider these things a little differently than as I did in my wayfer days.
As I shared before w/ you. I do not believe it is wise to be just another misinformed believer who chases after every reported miracle because I believe most of these types of reports to be bogus and this only leaves me a fool to be taken in. But you seem to be in earnest in regards to a need so I don't think this behavior applies to you.
I believe that in TWI people saw genuine miracles and phenomenon perhaps in spite of the twisted and sick leadership and the fact that much of what the top leadership reported was in fact disingenuous for the sake of manipulation. But the ones who saw it and found it to be true were such that they fit into the category of "little children" in terms of there faith and their wisdom even.
Didn't the Lord say of the mighty works in His ministry that God saw fit to show this might to little children and not to the kings and prophets? And in another place the scriptures point out that even though a king may seek, God may hide the matter.
In another place the Lord shared that we future believers will long for the days when heaven's power was used for delivering miracles. I take that to mean that even though the Lord also spoke of believers in Him to do greater works than even his own, that He also spoke of times when people would long to do and see such things. And for even though who do manage to do mighty works even in His name, isn't it spoken of that some of the "mighty works" folks He Himself would reject saying,"...I know you not."
And a few Christian groups say they excell in these things too, I don't know if it is true or not, but I suspect that if there is genuine childlike faith then there are some real miracles. But unfortunately I can not keep track of the number of types of b.s. that goes along with some of these groups even as it turned out in "The Way International."
My opinion now is that none of us are able to show you these things of ourselves, because it is God's choosing. TWI theology tends to leave HIM out of it IMO. Even Paul after his mighty works at a later date reports that God saving one man's life was in part due to God's mercy, lest he has more sorrow that he can bear. So likewise my concern for you in your seeking, I don't know the situation or the need and I am not at all in charge of whether you will see the things you feel you must. Whether you end up with sorrow or deliverance I would choose to support you and help.
(spelling corrections and a small change for the sake of specificity)
It is funny to think this way, but when you're in a situation where spiritual power is going to be "dipped into" It's often all going to happen very quick.... God knows what's needed when you ask and he puts it all in motion, but yeah, you'd better hold on tight and do your part. And then it's over, just like that.
I would be very concerned if you are trying to "dip into" spiritual power. I don't believe that is how our heavenly Father works.
A long while back I remember looking into things of the "spirit", and more specifically the spirit God has sent and given to us until the time of redemption.
God's spirit was sent to be a help, a comforter, a revealer, and many things. But what it was not sent for, is a magic wand to be waived about to bring forth our wishes. Our fanciful dreams would like it to be, and many tear scriptures apart to make it seem true. But there is no magic formula. No magic potion. No mystical spirit that was sent to do our every wish, even if it is for "what seems" good.
To understand the spirit, is to understand Him whom gave this spirit. In fact, if you look through scripture, it is not called YOUR spirit, it is not called our spirit, it is called God's spirit.
1 Cor 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that God's spirit dwells in you?"
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
Eph 3:16 "For He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His(God's) Spirit in your inner being..."
We do not control His spirit any more than you can control God himself. It is HIS! It will not do anything outside of HIS will. It will function only according to how HE desires it to. And yet, His spirit has the power to do accomplish more things than one could ever think up, and to put it in this box of 9 manifestations is limiting at best.
Granted, God send it to us. He placed it in us to help us. But not so we become little gods with power. Instead, he sent it to help us when the need is there. And that need is not according to YOUR will. It is according to His.
If you desire to see signs, miracles, or whatever. You approach it as God has asked us to. We ask Him. We seek Him.
Our heavenly Father holds the keys. Not man. Not any ministry. Not any "belief". And not you or I.
We TRUST God.. You can "believe" anything you want, but Trust is what God desires. We put our trust, our strength, our hope, our very lives in His hands, and say Father, Your will, not mine. And from there we ask and from there it is God who allows all things to happen. You do not force God's spirit to work, you ask the Father, and He energizes according to His will.
So, if I am to understand this correctly, it's not enough to have word of knowledge, word of wisdom and discerning of spirits. One must also operate this special sort of "turbo charged" believing (that is not synonymous with the "law" of believing.) in order to bring to pass the impossible on command. And, it is a "special" kind of renewed mind.
I asked what the difference was between the two "believings" was at an adv. class once. Someone tried to explain using baseball.
I still don't know why Ohioans cut their round pizzas into squares.
And when bad things happen. . . .and they always do . . . because we live in a fallen world with sin, as WordWolf so aptly points out. When they do. . . . have some FAITH in God. . . .in His sovereign will and His ability to not only give wisdom, deliver, and heal, but, in His ability to grow endurance in us as those He loves. It is all a part of the Cristian life.
God always offers help, but His will and higher ways. . . . may not always conform with what we think it should be. . . . that is when our FAITH in Him is really tested.
That is when He is glorified as God. Think about it.
While Paul, Peter, and Silas were released from prison. . . . James was martyred around the same time. He understood suffering. . . .
Or just study the weather patterns, make your educated guess based on experience, and act accordingly.
We do not control His spirit any more than you can control God himself. It is HIS! It will not do anything outside of HIS will. It will function only according to how HE desires it to. And yet, His spirit has the power to do accomplish more things than one could ever think up, and to put it in this box of 9 manifestations is limiting at best .
Because these 9 manifestations seem to incorporate everything already, I wonder why you say that they are like a box (with a limited scope)...
Does not WORD OF WISDOM entail the best way to apply anything?
Does not WORD OF KNOWLEDGE include everything that can be known?
Does not FAITH cover any action one might take?
Does not GIFTS OF HEALING include mending any situation or remedy any sickness?
Does not WORKING OF MIRACLES include anything which can happen which goes beyond the natural means?
Does not PROPHESY include all events which ARE, WERE, or WILL BE?
Does not DISCERNING OF SPIRITS cover all which is going on "behind the scenes" in the spiritual realm?
Is there any limit as to the scope of one's conversation with God when one SPEAKS IN TONGUES?
I really don't see how you consider these to be LIMITED just the way they are. The true dimensions of this "box of yours" are as LIMITLESS as the universe.
And just because these are described by "words" does not mean they are (in reality) limited to the definitions of those words. But God had to describe this "immeasurable gift" somehow in words ("finite terms") which we humans can relate to.
And just think - we are told that what we do have is just a "token", so the REST OF IT (when we get it) will make even what seems without measure at the present to pale in insignificance!
Maybe simpler put - Would you say somebody is putting God "in a box" if he were to merely quote a verse which says "God is light"? You might then ask him, "Well, isn't God a whole lot more than just LIGHT? Calling God only "light" is limiting at best."
What is light? Is it merely a word alone, or a concept which leads to an eternal array of everything spiritual and true?
And, by the way it is called THE manifestation:
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
There can be no more "evidence" of this gift than what is in the list which follows - for in it is comprised ALL which can be manifested of the gift - for it is called THE MANIFESTATION.
TrustAndObey: You said, "And yet, His spirit has the power to do accomplish more things than one could ever think up, and to put it in this box of 9 manifestations is limiting at best."
You speak as if there is more to it than what God has described. Everything which the gift of holy spirit can "accomplish" is covered by one or more, or a combination of these 9.
I really don't see how you consider these to be LIMITED just the way they are. The true dimensions of this "box of yours" are as LIMITLESS as the universe.
And just think - we are told that what we do have is just a "token", so the REST OF IT (when we get it) will make even what seems without measure at the present to pale in insignificance!
I think you answered your own question there spec... the "REST OF IT".. Well, Guess that means there is MORE!
You speak as if there is more to it than what God has described. Everything which the gift of holy spirit can "accomplish" is covered by one or more, or a combination of these 9.
First off, it is what Paul describes not what God describes. Second off, he never said there are ONLY 9. He just lists 9..
There can be no more "evidence" of this gift than what is in the list which follows - for in it is comprised ALL which can be manifested of the gift - for it is called THE MANIFESTATION.
Yes, and that, my friend, is the box you decide to put God's spirit and the many ways it can be manifest.
And lest we forget, there was also the example, in PFAL, of the fella who came out of the tavern so full of the spirit, he was certain he could "lick any man in town".
Where would the Mount of Transfiguration event fit the 9.
It doesn't fit into the nine:
Mt 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was not a manifestation. It was a VISION, similar to that which God showed prophets at times in the OT, and elsewhere.
Even in our times, there are those with a "gift ministry" of a prophet. And there is a big difference between a "gift" and a "manifestion".
In addition, this was a "phenomenon", because others were allowed to see it along with Jesus - and the purpose was to teach them something, which you will see from the context.
I think you answered your own question there spec... the "REST OF IT".. Well, Guess that means there is MORE!
Yes, and that, my friend, is the box you decide to put God's spirit and the many ways it can be manifest.
Enjoy your box! I take this as a SNIDE COMMENT - rather uncalled for.
You do have a valid point here; however - perhaps I should "qualify" my reasoning a bit more...
That which God has given his children to use these days is not limited in that which pertains to what we are to accomplish here during the time of this SECOND EARTH. It's purpose is that we be "fully equipped" - complete for THE TASK AT HAND.
In this context is what I meant by it's being "UNLIMITED". There is nothing we cannot accomplish with it toward the GOAL God has set for us during this time on earth.
However, in the future we shall have it IN FULL, that we may accomplish the NEW GOALS which will be set for us starting with the 3rd earth - New Jerusalem and beyond.
God has not explained much at all about what "that future" will be like. Surely what He had provided in written form for us in OUR TIME is NOT the end of the "whole story".
I suppose in the future God will reveal even more "scripture" which we will need in order to accomplish what He has planned for us - BEYOND what is written NOW - which does cover everything we need for the present.
This BOX (as you have called it) merely "defines" what we have to use NOW, that we may learn to use it properly. God's explanation of what our "holy spirit" is comprised of sets the "constraints" for us that we do not misunderstand or misuse it.
Everything in life needs definition so we may operate correctly - even our jobs, or games, or how to build things. The details of each of these may be considered as the BOX which shows how they are to be used - And God's details concerning the "manifestations of the gift of holy spirit" are no different.
1. SIT
2. interpret
3. prophecy
4. w of k
5. w of w
6. d of spurts
7. super Believing
8. gifts of healings (note the "s"s)
9. something else
10. spidey sense
11. the sixth sense
12. word of whatever
13. ESP
14. telekinetics
15. radar
16. deja vu
17. the rally cap
18. groundhogs day aka interpretation of shadows
19. gifts of unhealings (someone's got to believe for when someone else has stopped believing and believe to bring the sickness back.)
20. tax aversion
21. how mom knows your lying aka word of superknowledge
22. *the mystery manifestation not yet revealed*
23. the boldness to wear a devil spurt costume
24. the even greater boldness to be the guy in super-short-shorts chase the spurts around
24 so far
This is quite a list! I can see by the order you have listed the first 8, you still seem to acknowledge their "order" as proposed and taught by TWI. (And BTW, you "just forgot" to mention "the working of miracles".)
The rest of the list made me laugh - especially some of the things you mentioned which are COUNTERFEITS. (like ESP and 6th sense)
But I know you only meant to be sarcastic and facetious - and perhaps not in a truly demeaning context - that is why I laughed at it.
The misunderstanding of the greatest thing God has provided His kids with is truly LAUGHABLE! For those who mock and scoff at God's instruction, consider: Their "time" is coming, for someday they will answer for all these things in court at the Throne of God:
Ps 59:7 Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?
8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
1. Again Elihu met his pupils in the sacred grove and said,
2. No man lives unto himself; for every living thing is bound by cords to every other living thing.
3. Blest are the pure in heart; for they will love and not demand love in return.
4. They will not do to other men what they would not have other men do unto them.
5. There are two selfs; the higher and the lower self.
6. The higher self is human spirit clothed with soul, made in the form of God.
7. The lower self, the carnal self, the body of desires, is a reflection of the higher self, distorted by the murky ethers of the flesh.
8. The lower self is an illusion, and will pass away; the higher self is God in man, and will not pass away.
9. The higher self is the embodiment of truth reversed, and so is falsehood manifest.
10. The higher self is justice, mercy, love and right; the lower self is what the higher self is not.
11. The lower self breeds hatred, slander, lewdness, murders, theft, and everything that harms; the higher self is mother of the virtues and the harmonies of life.
12. The lower self is rich in promises, but poor in blessedness and peace; it offers pleasure, joy and satisfying gains; but gives unrest and misery and death.
13. It gives men apples that are lovely to the eye and pleasant to the smell; their cores are full of bitterness and gall.
14. If you would ask me what to study I would say, yourselves; and when you will have studied them, and then would ask me what to study next, I would reply, yourselves.
15. He who knows well his lower self, knows the illusions of the world, knows of the things that pass away; and he who knows his higher self, know God; knows well the things that cannot pass away.
16. Thrice blessed is the man who has made purity and love his very own; he has been ransomed from the perils of the lower self and is himself his higher self.
17. Men seek salvation from an evil that they deem a living monster of the nether world; and they have gods that are but demons in disguise; all powerful, yet full of jealousy and hate and lust;
18. Whose favours must be bought with costly sacrifice of fruits, and of the lives of birds, and animals, and human kind.
19. And yet these gods possess no ears to hear, no eyes to see, no heart to sympathise, no power to save.
20. This evil is myth; these gods are made of air, clothed with shadows of a thought.
21. The only devil from which men must be redeemed is self, the lower self. If man would find his devil he must look within; his name is self.
22. If man would find his saviour he must look within; and when the demon self has been dethroned the saviour, Love, will be exulted to the throne of power.
23. The David of the light is Purity, who slays the strong Goliath of the dark, and seats the saviour, Love, upon the throne.
I suppose in the future God will reveal even more "scripture" which we will need in order to accomplish what He has planned for us - BEYOND what is written NOW - which does cover everything we need for the present.
Oopsie!
That would create quite an "inerrancy problem" because of Revelation 22:18.
For I testify unto everyone that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
That would create quite an "inerrancy problem" because of Revelation 22:18.
For I testify unto everyone that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
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spectrum49
And now, a post concerning the manifestations. Please remember though, this is "my take" on them... A word to begin with: As Gen-2 has indicated so many times, the physical and spiritual realms are
geisha779
Some of the accounts in the OT make me laugh. You have God in Exodus 20 telling Moses I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Seems God is taking credit here
year2027
God first thanks Gen-2 yes my friend we can understand tongues by dreams but can we understand the serpent by understanding God Eve was tempted by serpent but was she really tempted or was a l
WordWolf
twi and its affiliates thereof- and the Word-Faith movement in general-
mistake 2 similar things for each other,
with catastrophic results.
A) Trusting God. Believing God's promises, believing the Bible.
Those are good things we're supposed to do. (If you take the Bible as your standard.)
B) Exerting a mental "believing-force" on reality to bend it to your whims-
or worse, exerting a mental "believing-force" on God Almighty to bend HIM to your whim,
believing He's some sort of Divine Genie, but only after your Believing has
roughed Him up or put Him in his place.
One is not the other. God doesn't need any more power than He already has.
Go ahead and pray and trust God.
If bad things happen, it's because this is a fallen world, and the sun and the rain
fall on everyone, not because you failed somehow to exert sufficient "believing-force"
to prevent it to happen.
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Bolshevik
so simple
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geisha779
And when bad things happen. . . .and they always do . . . because we live in a fallen world with sin, as WordWolf so aptly points out. When they do. . . . have some FAITH in God. . . .in His sovereign will and His ability to not only give wisdom, deliver, and heal, but, in His ability to grow endurance in us as those He loves. It is all a part of the Cristian life.
God always offers help, but His will and higher ways. . . . may not always conform with what we think it should be. . . . that is when our FAITH in Him is really tested.
That is when He is glorified as God. Think about it.
While Paul, Peter, and Silas were released from prison. . . . James was martyred around the same time. He understood suffering. . . .
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JeffSjo
I don't know what's going on in your life Gen-2, but considering the little bit that you've shared plus the fact you feel like you are up against some form of deadline I can not help but be concerned for you and how this all comes out after it is all said and done.
I refrain from speaking beyond that which I know of your situation because I know nothing of it. And to be frank my experience tells me that their is definitely more ways to make things worse for you than to actually help by shooting my mouth off. But....
I've come to consider these things a little differently than as I did in my wayfer days.
As I shared before w/ you. I do not believe it is wise to be just another misinformed believer who chases after every reported miracle because I believe most of these types of reports to be bogus and this only leaves me a fool to be taken in. But you seem to be in earnest in regards to a need so I don't think this behavior applies to you.
I believe that in TWI people saw genuine miracles and phenomenon perhaps in spite of the twisted and sick leadership and the fact that much of what the top leadership reported was in fact disingenuous for the sake of manipulation. But the ones who saw it and found it to be true were such that they fit into the category of "little children" in terms of there faith and their wisdom even.
Didn't the Lord say of the mighty works in His ministry that God saw fit to show this might to little children and not to the kings and prophets? And in another place the scriptures point out that even though a king may seek, God may hide the matter.
In another place the Lord shared that we future believers will long for the days when heaven's power was used for delivering miracles. I take that to mean that even though the Lord also spoke of believers in Him to do greater works than even his own, that He also spoke of times when people would long to do and see such things. And for even though who do manage to do mighty works even in His name, isn't it spoken of that some of the "mighty works" folks He Himself would reject saying,"...I know you not."
And a few Christian groups say they excell in these things too, I don't know if it is true or not, but I suspect that if there is genuine childlike faith then there are some real miracles. But unfortunately I can not keep track of the number of types of b.s. that goes along with some of these groups even as it turned out in "The Way International."
My opinion now is that none of us are able to show you these things of ourselves, because it is God's choosing. TWI theology tends to leave HIM out of it IMO. Even Paul after his mighty works at a later date reports that God saving one man's life was in part due to God's mercy, lest he has more sorrow that he can bear. So likewise my concern for you in your seeking, I don't know the situation or the need and I am not at all in charge of whether you will see the things you feel you must. Whether you end up with sorrow or deliverance I would choose to support you and help.
(spelling corrections and a small change for the sake of specificity)
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year2027
God first
thanks Gen-2
do you need a miracle or something?
is it for yourself or a family member
because if you need healing i give to you or your family member
but do not blame me if the healing you want is more than you were believing for
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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TrustAndObey
I would be very concerned if you are trying to "dip into" spiritual power. I don't believe that is how our heavenly Father works.
A long while back I remember looking into things of the "spirit", and more specifically the spirit God has sent and given to us until the time of redemption.
God's spirit was sent to be a help, a comforter, a revealer, and many things. But what it was not sent for, is a magic wand to be waived about to bring forth our wishes. Our fanciful dreams would like it to be, and many tear scriptures apart to make it seem true. But there is no magic formula. No magic potion. No mystical spirit that was sent to do our every wish, even if it is for "what seems" good.
To understand the spirit, is to understand Him whom gave this spirit. In fact, if you look through scripture, it is not called YOUR spirit, it is not called our spirit, it is called God's spirit.
1 Cor 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that God's spirit dwells in you?"
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
Eph 3:16 "For He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His(God's) Spirit in your inner being..."
We do not control His spirit any more than you can control God himself. It is HIS! It will not do anything outside of HIS will. It will function only according to how HE desires it to. And yet, His spirit has the power to do accomplish more things than one could ever think up, and to put it in this box of 9 manifestations is limiting at best.
Granted, God send it to us. He placed it in us to help us. But not so we become little gods with power. Instead, he sent it to help us when the need is there. And that need is not according to YOUR will. It is according to His.
If you desire to see signs, miracles, or whatever. You approach it as God has asked us to. We ask Him. We seek Him.
Our heavenly Father holds the keys. Not man. Not any ministry. Not any "belief". And not you or I.
We TRUST God.. You can "believe" anything you want, but Trust is what God desires. We put our trust, our strength, our hope, our very lives in His hands, and say Father, Your will, not mine. And from there we ask and from there it is God who allows all things to happen. You do not force God's spirit to work, you ask the Father, and He energizes according to His will.
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Bolshevik
I asked what the difference was between the two "believings" was at an adv. class once. Someone tried to explain using baseball.
I still don't know why Ohioans cut their round pizzas into squares.
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Bolshevik
Or just study the weather patterns, make your educated guess based on experience, and act accordingly.
Dumb luck helps too.
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geisha779
What ever works for you!
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spectrum49
Because these 9 manifestations seem to incorporate everything already, I wonder why you say that they are like a box (with a limited scope)...
Does not WORD OF WISDOM entail the best way to apply anything?
Does not WORD OF KNOWLEDGE include everything that can be known?
Does not FAITH cover any action one might take?
Does not GIFTS OF HEALING include mending any situation or remedy any sickness?
Does not WORKING OF MIRACLES include anything which can happen which goes beyond the natural means?
Does not PROPHESY include all events which ARE, WERE, or WILL BE?
Does not DISCERNING OF SPIRITS cover all which is going on "behind the scenes" in the spiritual realm?
Is there any limit as to the scope of one's conversation with God when one SPEAKS IN TONGUES?
I really don't see how you consider these to be LIMITED just the way they are. The true dimensions of this "box of yours" are as LIMITLESS as the universe.
And just because these are described by "words" does not mean they are (in reality) limited to the definitions of those words. But God had to describe this "immeasurable gift" somehow in words ("finite terms") which we humans can relate to.
And just think - we are told that what we do have is just a "token", so the REST OF IT (when we get it) will make even what seems without measure at the present to pale in insignificance!
Maybe simpler put - Would you say somebody is putting God "in a box" if he were to merely quote a verse which says "God is light"? You might then ask him, "Well, isn't God a whole lot more than just LIGHT? Calling God only "light" is limiting at best."
What is light? Is it merely a word alone, or a concept which leads to an eternal array of everything spiritual and true?
And, by the way it is called THE manifestation:
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
There can be no more "evidence" of this gift than what is in the list which follows - for in it is comprised ALL which can be manifested of the gift - for it is called THE MANIFESTATION.
TrustAndObey: You said, "And yet, His spirit has the power to do accomplish more things than one could ever think up, and to put it in this box of 9 manifestations is limiting at best."
You speak as if there is more to it than what God has described. Everything which the gift of holy spirit can "accomplish" is covered by one or more, or a combination of these 9.
SPEC
:)
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cman
Where would the Mount of Transfiguration event fit the 9.
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TrustAndObey
I think you answered your own question there spec... the "REST OF IT".. Well, Guess that means there is MORE!
First off, it is what Paul describes not what God describes. Second off, he never said there are ONLY 9. He just lists 9..
Yes, and that, my friend, is the box you decide to put God's spirit and the many ways it can be manifest.
Enjoy your box!
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cman
I have no intention of debating whether there are 9 or 90 manifestations.
But to discover the workings of the spirit as it allows me to see.
Just thought I'd say that.
Cause it's not important to me.
Only as a tool to perhaps let go of it.
If we were to count the fruit of the spirit,
it would mean nothing as well.
Sure enough another will blossom...
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Bolshevik
It's the same thing, perhaps a simpler explanation is all.
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Bolshevik
1. SIT
2. interpret
3. prophecy
4. w of k
5. w of w
6. d of spurts
7. super Believing
8. gifts of healings (note the "s"s)
9. something else
10. spidey sense
11. the sixth sense
12. word of whatever
13. ESP
14. telekinetics
15. radar
16. deja vu
17. the rally cap
18. groundhogs day aka interpretation of shadows
19. gifts of unhealings (someone's got to believe for when someone else has stopped believing and believe to bring the sickness back.)
20. tax aversion
21. how mom knows your lying aka word of superknowledge
22. *the mystery manifestation not yet revealed*
23. the boldness to wear a devil spurt costume
24. the even greater boldness to be the guy in super-short-shorts chase the spurts around
24 so far
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waysider
And lest we forget, there was also the example, in PFAL, of the fella who came out of the tavern so full of the spirit, he was certain he could "lick any man in town".
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spectrum49
It doesn't fit into the nine:
Mt 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was not a manifestation. It was a VISION, similar to that which God showed prophets at times in the OT, and elsewhere.
Even in our times, there are those with a "gift ministry" of a prophet. And there is a big difference between a "gift" and a "manifestion".
In addition, this was a "phenomenon", because others were allowed to see it along with Jesus - and the purpose was to teach them something, which you will see from the context.
You do have a valid point here; however - perhaps I should "qualify" my reasoning a bit more...
That which God has given his children to use these days is not limited in that which pertains to what we are to accomplish here during the time of this SECOND EARTH. It's purpose is that we be "fully equipped" - complete for THE TASK AT HAND.
In this context is what I meant by it's being "UNLIMITED". There is nothing we cannot accomplish with it toward the GOAL God has set for us during this time on earth.
However, in the future we shall have it IN FULL, that we may accomplish the NEW GOALS which will be set for us starting with the 3rd earth - New Jerusalem and beyond.
God has not explained much at all about what "that future" will be like. Surely what He had provided in written form for us in OUR TIME is NOT the end of the "whole story".
I suppose in the future God will reveal even more "scripture" which we will need in order to accomplish what He has planned for us - BEYOND what is written NOW - which does cover everything we need for the present.
This BOX (as you have called it) merely "defines" what we have to use NOW, that we may learn to use it properly. God's explanation of what our "holy spirit" is comprised of sets the "constraints" for us that we do not misunderstand or misuse it.
Everything in life needs definition so we may operate correctly - even our jobs, or games, or how to build things. The details of each of these may be considered as the BOX which shows how they are to be used - And God's details concerning the "manifestations of the gift of holy spirit" are no different.
This is quite a list! I can see by the order you have listed the first 8, you still seem to acknowledge their "order" as proposed and taught by TWI. (And BTW, you "just forgot" to mention "the working of miracles".)
The rest of the list made me laugh - especially some of the things you mentioned which are COUNTERFEITS. (like ESP and 6th sense)
But I know you only meant to be sarcastic and facetious - and perhaps not in a truly demeaning context - that is why I laughed at it.
The misunderstanding of the greatest thing God has provided His kids with is truly LAUGHABLE! For those who mock and scoff at God's instruction, consider: Their "time" is coming, for someday they will answer for all these things in court at the Throne of God:
Ps 59:7 Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?
8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
SPEC
:)
Edited by spectrum49Link to comment
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year2027
God first
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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year2027
God first
thanks SPEC
is one's self scope depends on what one believes
truth is more than that
as I try to count the manifestations i add more each time i grow
9 is just a beginning place to start
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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waysider
Oopsie!
That would create quite an "inerrancy problem" because of Revelation 22:18.
For I testify unto everyone that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
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spectrum49
LOL - But MAN will not be adding - God will.
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waysider
How will we know the difference?
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spectrum49
By their fruits perhaps?
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year2027
God first
thanks waysider
look at the book who takes credit for it James or God or Prince James
Prince James takes credit for the Book adding to the others
but James word of prophecy sets alone
Revelation was wrote to in a man's book IT WAS WROTE TO STAND BY ITSELF
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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