Yes. A "stand-alone" book. Doesn't that, in itself, raise questions about inerrancy and canonization? If "all prophesy is God breathed", adding to Revelation, even though it may be designed to stand alone, would be equivalent to adding to the canon.
That which God has given his children to use these days is not limited in that which pertains to what we are to accomplish here during the time of this SECOND EARTH. It's purpose is that we be "fully equipped" - complete for THE TASK AT HAND.
This BOX (as you have called it) merely "defines" what we have to use NOW, that we may learn to use it properly. God's explanation of what our "holy spirit" is comprised of sets the "constraints" for us that we do not misunderstand or misuse it.
It's clear we both are not going to agree on this.. I do not agree with TWI. And from what I read, you agree with their ideas for the most part concerning how the spirit works. If that's not a true statement, feel free to correct me.
I do NOT believe God gave man anything to make them little mini-gods that just have to "believe" and magical things happen. To me, that is wishful thinking at the least, and egotistical from there.
This whole idea that the spirit given today is any different than that which is spoken of and given in the Old Testament makes no sense, especially when so many NT scriptures, even those in the epistles that link the two together.
And Paul's listing of what one is given or another (in reference to manifestation of spirit], is never prefaced or said anywhere remotely that here is the definitive list of manifestations. That, to me, it is purely fanciful thinking to try and act like it is.
Add on top of that, the wording doesn't even support TWI's logic of 'to one "profit"'. But I think the thread on 1 Cor 12 has been handling that.
Just so you can understand my view [which is just that, my view], I do not confine myself to "scripture". To what Paul or Luke or Peter or anyone else wrote. God is so much larger than any book written by men, be they inspired or not. And that would include any "supposed" list "alluded" to by Paul.
This idea that God's spirit is the greatest thing He has given us, his kids, with all these gizmos and gadgets, well.. All I have to say is, enjoy the light show! Because for me, the greatest thing God has given us is His Son. And I wouldn't say either Christ or God's spirit are toys that you control and play with according to your will.
i think it the human factor that reads" For I testify unto everyone that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. "
12. Your wand is truth. With this you touch the multitudes, and every man becomes a messenger of holy light and life.
13. You touch the waves upon the sea of life; their turmoils cease; the very winds become a song of praise.
14. There is no death, because the wand of truth can change the dryest bones to living things, and bring the loveliest flowers from stagnant ponds, and turn the most discordant notes to harmony and praise.
15. Joachim said, My son, today you pass the seventh milestone of your way of life, for you are seven years of age, and we will give to you, as a remembrance of this day, whatever you desire; choose that which will afford you most delight.
16. And Jesus said, I do not want a gift, for I am satisfied. If I could make a multitude of children glad upon this day I would be greatly pleased.
17. Now, there are many hungry boys and girls in Nazareth who would be pleased to eat with us this feast and share with us the pleasures of this day.
18. The richest gift that you can give to me is your permission to go out and find these needy ones and bring them here that they may feast with us.
Chapter 17
Jesus talks with the rabbi of the synagogue of Nazareth. He criticises the narrowness of Jewish thought.
1. Now, Rabbi Barachia of the synagogue of Nazareth, was aid to Mary in the teaching of her son.
2. One morning after service in the synagogue the rabbi said to Jesus as he sat in silent thought, Which is the greatest of the Ten Commands?
3. And Jesus said, I do not see a greatest of the Ten Commands. I see a golden cord that runs through all the Ten Commands that binds them fast and makes them one.
4. This cord is love, and it belongs to every word of all the Ten Commands.
5. If one is full of love he can do nothing else than worship God; for God is love.
6. If one is full of love, he cannot kill; he cannot falsely testify; he cannot covet; can do naught but honour God and man.
7. If one is full of love he does not need commands of any kind.
8. And Rabbi Barachia said, Your words are seasoned with the salt of wisdom that is from above. Who is the teacher who has opened up this truth to you.
9. And Jesus said, I do not know that any teacher opens up this truth for me. It seems to me that truth was never shut; that it was always opened up, for truth is one and it is everywhere.
10. And if we open up the windows of our minds the truth will enter in and make herself at home; for truth can find her way through any crevice, any window, any open door.
11. The rabbi said, What hand is strong enough to open up the windows and the doors of mind so truth can enter in?
12. And Jesus said, It seems to me that love, the golden cord that binds the Ten Commands in one, is strong enough to open any human door so that the truth can enter in and cause the heart to understand.
13. Now, in the evening Jesus and his mother sat alone, and Jesus said,
14. The rabbi seems to think that God is partial in his treatment of the sons of men; that Jews are favoured and are blest above all other men.
15. I do not see how God can have his favourites and be just.
16. Are not Samaritans and Greeks and Romans just as much the children of the Holy One as are the Jews?
17. I think the Jews have built a wall about themselves, and they see nothing on the other side of it.
18. They do not know that flowers are blooming over there; that sowing times and reaping times belong to anybody but the Jews.
19. It surely would be well if we could break down these barriers down so that the Jews might see that God has other children that are just as greatly blest.
20. I want to go from Jewry land and meet my kin in other countries of my Fatherland.
This is quite a list! I can see by the order you have listed the first 8, you still seem to acknowledge their "order" as proposed and taught by TWI. (And BTW, you "just forgot" to mention "the working of miracles".)
. . .
I think this is the answer to the question in the original post. In fact, I think her question is a result of this "order"?
1. Now, Jesus with his friend Lamaas went through all the regions of Orissa, and the valley of the Ganges, seeking wisdom from the sudras and the visyas and the masters.
2. Benares of the Ganges was a city rich in culture and in learning; here the two rabbonis tarried many days.
3. And Jesus sought to learn the Hindu art of healing, and became the pupil of Udraka, greatest of the Hindu healers.
4. Udraka taught the uses of the waters, plants and earths; of heat and cold; sunshine and shade; of light and dark.
5. He said, The laws of nature are the laws of health, and he who lives according to these laws is never sick.
6. Transgression of these laws is sin, and he who sins is sick.
7. He who obeys the laws, maintains an equilibrium in all his parts, and thus insures true harmony; and harmony is health, while discord is disease.
8. That which produces harmony in all the parts of man is medicine, insuring health.
9. The body is a harpsichord, and when its strings are too relaxed, or are too tense, the instrument is out of tune, the man is sick.
10. Now, everything in nature has been made to meet the wants of man; so everything is found in medical arcanes.
11. And when the harpsichord of man is out of tune the vast expanse of nature may be searched for remedy; there is a cure for every ailment of the flesh.
12. Of course the will of man is remedy supreme; and by the vigorous exercise of will, man way make tense a chord that is relaxed, or may relax one that is too tense, and thus may heal himself.
13. When man has reached the place where he has faith in God, in nature and himself, he knows the Word of power; his word is balm for every wound, is cure for all the ills of life.
14. The healer is the man who can inspire faith. The tongue may speak to human ears, but souls are reached by souls that speak to souls.
15. He is the forceful man whose soul is large, and who can enter into souls, inspiring hope in those who have no hope, and faith in those who have no faith in God, in nature, nor in man.
16. There is no universal balm for those who tread the common walks of life.
17. A thousand things produce inharmony and make men sick; a thousand things may tune the harpsichord, and make men well.
18. That which is medicine for one is poison for another one; so one is healed by what would kill another one.
19. An herb may heal the one; a drink of water may restore another one; a mountain breeze may bring to life one seeming past all help;
20. A coal of fire, or bit of earth, may cure another one; and one may wash in certain streams, or pools, and be made whole.
21. The virtue from the hand or breath may heal a thousand more; but love is queen. Thought, reinforced by love, is God's great sovereign balm.
22. But many of the broken chords in life, and discords that so vex the soul, are caused by evil spirits of the air that men see not; that lead men on through ignorance to break the laws of nature and of God.
23. These powers act like demons, and they speak; they rend the man; they drive him to despair.
24. But he who is a healer, true, is master of the soul, and can, by force of will, control these evil ones.
25. Some spirits of the air are master spirits and are strong, too strong for human power alone; but man has helpers in the higher realms that may be importuned, and they will help to drive the demons out.
26. Of what this great physician said, this is the sum. And Jesus bowed his head in recognition of the wisdom of this master soul, and went his way.
This whole idea that the spirit given today is any different than that which is spoken of and given in the Old Testament makes no sense, especially when so many NT scriptures, even those in the epistles that link the two together...
I never said there is much difference between the old and new testaments concerning the "holy spirit" and its operations. They truly are "linked", as you put it. In fact, the only difference I can see is the fact that today we have it IN US as a part of our "spiritual nature", while in the OT it came upon them as needed and left after it's "work was done".
And it's not that I totally agree with TWI's teachings concerning the operation of the gift of holy spirit. I read the Bible for myself and think independently. If my conclusions are wrong, I will bear that burden myself, alone.
However, I admit that we indeed differ somewhat in the fact that I consider the Bible as the most prominent source of spiritual truth (although I do see other proof elsewhere), while you seem to give the Bible and other readings "equal merit". I don't see that as a big problem...
...This idea that God's spirit is the greatest thing He has given us, his kids, with all these gizmos and gadgets, well.. All I have to say is, enjoy the light show! Because for me, the greatest thing God has given us is His Son. And I wouldn't say either Christ or God's spirit are toys that you control and play with according to your will.
Now this is something we can readily agree upon, for I believe that the "greatest" part of our gift of holy spirit" is the fact that we have "Christ in us, the hope of glory." God himself even calls this is the "riches of the glory of this mystery".
And you did acknowledge that more concerning all this is in the TOPIC on 1Co 12. I believe I have posted enough in there to show I do not believe these manifestations are "toys that you control and play with according to your will", as you put it.
SPEC
:)
PS: I will try and forget your personal comment to me about "enjoying the light show" - just to be kind. I am really trying to be your friend - REALLY!
The misunderstanding of the greatest thing God has provided His kids with is truly LAUGHABLE! For those who mock and scoff at God's instruction, consider: Their "time" is coming, for someday they will answer for all these things in court at the Throne of God:
Ps 59:7 Behold, they belch out with their mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear?
8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
SPEC
:)
Could you explain who and what you are referring to?
Linder was big on selling the revelation manifestations. I think it is understood at HQ that the power manifestations have been "lost", due to ineffective believing. This is a big carrot for the waybots, someday, someday, someone will rise and bring these back.
I will try and forget your personal comment to me about "enjoying the light show" - just to be kind. I am really trying to be your friend - REALLY!
This is why I hate to even post in the doctrinal section. It's like my brain says don't do it, but my mind starts to lurk here anyways and then it just happens. I post, and always end up offending someone.. Don't mean to, really I don't... Anything I write is just my opinion, and I just get carried away with typing so fast.. Sorry if my expression results in this..
I never said there is much difference between the old and new testaments concerning the "holy spirit" and its operations. They truly are "linked", as you put it. In fact, the only difference I can see is the fact that today we have it IN US as a part of our "spiritual nature", while in the OT it came upon them as needed and left after it's "work was done".
While I realize you don't believe there is "MUCH", I don't believe there is ANY.. That is a difference! This whole idea of spirit IN or spirit UPON to me is just symantics. And when scripture is searched, the spirit is said to fill the Old Testament and be "IN" the Old Testament believer just as the New.. I don't have time to search, but it's been brought up here before with the scriptures, so I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to find.
Ok, I broke down and did a very quick check.. Numbers 27:18 and 1 Peter 4:14 is a ref to the opposite word being used in opposite sides of scripture.. But I'll let you look it up. This IN and UPON to me is just someones way of making a mountain out of a molehill, (that's about as kind as I can be on that...). And thus the reason I say they refer to the same, NO difference, not SOME.
Now this is something we can readily agree upon, for I believe that the "greatest" part of our gift of holy spirit" is the fact that we have "Christ in us, the hope of glory." God himself even calls this is the "riches of the glory of this mystery".
Unfortunately, I don't give "parts" to the gift. Nor do I view "Christ in us" as anything near what has been mentioned thus far.
I believe I have posted enough in there to show I do not believe these manifestations are "toys that you control and play with according to your will", as you put it.
And as long as we agree on that, the rest is just academics and "unimportant" (TO ME)..
foundational class - look at me I can babble like an idiot
intermediate class - I can make stuff up on the fly
advanced class - I can rearrange my thoughts and hear the invisible one
Way D/WOW - I can interrupt a stranger's dinner to tell them they are crazy and need to obey, feel the power? The spirits are angry.
Great list! How about:
Christian Family & Sex: Hey Baby, I'm spiritual enough, let's do it in all these positions!
Biblical Principals of a Believer's Family: It's time for me to make the whole family follow orders barked from HQ or else.
Rise and Expansion: Forget about Expansion, I am going to rise up and annoy the .... out of everyone.
Dealing with the Adversary: Look at me, I can beat that der adversary! (Only don't look at my life, ain't nothing happening)
Pretty funny stuff, you two! Been there - done that.
I especially enjoyed the one about LCM promising to "rise up and annoy the .... out of everyone". Chased away quite a few, huh? Oh well - any way to have people leave TWI is justified in my sight! With our hindsight, isn't it ironic that he really may have (in reality) done a "good thing" by sending them away? Sort of reminds me of:
Job 5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong...
...15 But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth... [YEAH, BUDDY!]
Now, on a more serious note...for TrustAndObey:
About the "IN or UPON stuff": Personally, I never read in the NT that “the spirit departed” from anyone as it did Saul, for instance. And I do believe we cannot “lose our spirit” in the Grace Administration. But that is merely "my take" - no big deal.
Nevertheless, if we are to concern ourselves with the spirit’s OPERATION, I believe we do agree they are “one and the same” throughout the entire Bible.
And we don’t energize it – God does. Oh yes, we might “believe” for that, but there are constraints involved which relate to God’s justness. If we are out in “left field”, we are not in the “best position” to be receiving revelation & power in operation in the first place. And the same is true in OT times. Whether the spirit is truly “permanent” or not does not matter so much after all. Not much really happens in life without some level of obedience anyway. (And, even during "dire situations" I believe God's mercy is still big enough to allow it in order to protect "life & limb", so to speak.)
I really hate to nit pick – so no big deal about “in or upon”. It’s like you said, its “mostly academic anyway”.
Now back to more "fun & games"...I do promise to enjoy the "Light Show" as you had requested, but perhaps not the one you were referring to - it's really all about light in "one way or another", huh? :B)
So you see, my dear, this way EVERYONE can enjoy the "light show" - well, not everyone - but that's another topic...
It's pretty understandable (and somewhat expected) thet everyone rode out of twi on their own tracks, and that there is a diversity of opinion regarding beliefs. If someone had set up a vendor's booth to hack religious wares as you left, he'd've been lucky to survive the day.
I started this thread with my opinion and a obvious curiosity
I've seen people misuse this gift, so I know that can be done. So how a person uses it is somewhat at their discretion. And yeah. it's a gift (holy spirit is). After that point you're dancing with God's words in a symantic rumba
Moses parted the Red Sea
God parted the Red Sea
"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided." (Exodus 14:21)
Roman Jewish historian Josephus Flavius speculated that the parting of the Red Sea "might be of God's will or of natural origin. Let everyone believe at his own discretion." The skeptic's skeptic, Sigmund Freud, called the Passover story "a pious myth," contending that Moses was a rebellious Egyptian prince who worshiped the sun god Aton and made up the Jewish religion as a political ploy.
That one's obviously a miracle, to me, the whole Red Sea Parting thing. I saw a TV show that says it was some natural phenomenon, and I have a friend named Mikey that says it's all BS storytime. And then there are those that speculate that the voice of God is a hallucination, Psych-types constantly attempt to cast doubt on most people's personal beliefs, in favor of their explanations.
Personally, my favorite ones are the ones that use the bible to achieve personal notoriety. But my question about spirit is now,... Wait!,... what's that?
have you read about Joseph who dream in tongues and interpreted the dream
Gen 41:12 And there was there with us a young man, an Hebrew, servant to the captain of the guard; and we told him, and he interpreted to us our dreams; to each man according to his dream he did interpret
Now who's will was at work? Moses' or the Lord's? And by Lord it must mean Jesus.
Yeah B,.... But why does it just seem logical to me (taking the position that the record is true) that if Moses hadn't raised his Hands - none of that would have mattered"
have you read about Joseph who dream in tongues and interpreted the dream
with love and a holy kiss Roy
Yes Roy, and I read your longer version of this in the "Speaking in Tongues" thread. We know that God gave those dreams to Joseph, and the interpretations, according to the accounts. It would seem that the Lord God enjoys working with people. Your view of them being a form of tongues is unique, though I have heard something like it before in a Pentecostal church sermon. They were more interested in the Interpretation side of it.
You have God in Exodus 20 telling Moses I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Seems God is taking credit here. . . . almost like He wasn't dependent on Moses raising the staff or something.
Then in 32 The LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. But then Moses comes back with No, No, No . . . YOUR PEOPLE... YOU DID IT! "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?
I know there is more to it, that in responding Moses is acknowledging God as the one who did(the exodus). . . . in pleading for Israel he is acknowledging they are God's people to do as He wills.Like Moses has any authority here other than appeal to God.
Probably not meant to be funny. . . . but, it still makes me laugh. . . mine, no yours, no, really, they are yours. . . fine, we will just kill them and start all over.
Yeah B,.... But why does it just seem logical to me (taking the position that the record is true) that if Moses hadn't raised his Hands - none of that would have mattered"
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spectrum49
And now, a post concerning the manifestations. Please remember though, this is "my take" on them... A word to begin with: As Gen-2 has indicated so many times, the physical and spiritual realms are
geisha779
Some of the accounts in the OT make me laugh. You have God in Exodus 20 telling Moses I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Seems God is taking credit here
year2027
God first thanks Gen-2 yes my friend we can understand tongues by dreams but can we understand the serpent by understanding God Eve was tempted by serpent but was she really tempted or was a l
waysider
Yes. A "stand-alone" book. Doesn't that, in itself, raise questions about inerrancy and canonization? If "all prophesy is God breathed", adding to Revelation, even though it may be designed to stand alone, would be equivalent to adding to the canon.
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TrustAndObey
It's clear we both are not going to agree on this.. I do not agree with TWI. And from what I read, you agree with their ideas for the most part concerning how the spirit works. If that's not a true statement, feel free to correct me.
I do NOT believe God gave man anything to make them little mini-gods that just have to "believe" and magical things happen. To me, that is wishful thinking at the least, and egotistical from there.
This whole idea that the spirit given today is any different than that which is spoken of and given in the Old Testament makes no sense, especially when so many NT scriptures, even those in the epistles that link the two together.
And Paul's listing of what one is given or another (in reference to manifestation of spirit], is never prefaced or said anywhere remotely that here is the definitive list of manifestations. That, to me, it is purely fanciful thinking to try and act like it is.
Add on top of that, the wording doesn't even support TWI's logic of 'to one "profit"'. But I think the thread on 1 Cor 12 has been handling that.
Just so you can understand my view [which is just that, my view], I do not confine myself to "scripture". To what Paul or Luke or Peter or anyone else wrote. God is so much larger than any book written by men, be they inspired or not. And that would include any "supposed" list "alluded" to by Paul.
This idea that God's spirit is the greatest thing He has given us, his kids, with all these gizmos and gadgets, well.. All I have to say is, enjoy the light show! Because for me, the greatest thing God has given us is His Son. And I wouldn't say either Christ or God's spirit are toys that you control and play with according to your will.
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year2027
God first
thanks waysider
my old friend
i think it the human factor that reads" For I testify unto everyone that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. "
James was human
in Revelation is in flesh form
God moves as the spirit gives to the men James
it was his personally words
he James testify unto you
not I God words but James words
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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year2027
God first
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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Bolshevik
I think this is the answer to the question in the original post. In fact, I think her question is a result of this "order"?
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year2027
God first
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
What do you mean by vision?
I think it really happened, therefore visible to the ones that could see.
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geisha779
Trust and Obey,
I enjoyed your posts. . . thanks for sharing.
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spectrum49
SPEC
:)
PS: I will try and forget your personal comment to me about "enjoying the light show" - just to be kind. I am really trying to be your friend - REALLY!
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geisha779
Could you explain who and what you are referring to?
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Bolshevik
foundational class - look at me I can babble like an idiot
intermediate class - I can make stuff up on the fly
advanced class - I can rearrange my thoughts and hear the invisible one
Way D/WOW - I can interrupt a stranger's dinner to tell them they are crazy and need to obey, feel the power? The spirits are angry.
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Bolshevik
Linder was big on selling the revelation manifestations. I think it is understood at HQ that the power manifestations have been "lost", due to ineffective believing. This is a big carrot for the waybots, someday, someday, someone will rise and bring these back.
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waysider
Hey! You left out the Renewed Mind class.
"I can self delude myself into thinking I'm lovin' it."
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TrustAndObey
This is why I hate to even post in the doctrinal section. It's like my brain says don't do it, but my mind starts to lurk here anyways and then it just happens. I post, and always end up offending someone.. Don't mean to, really I don't... Anything I write is just my opinion, and I just get carried away with typing so fast.. Sorry if my expression results in this..
While I realize you don't believe there is "MUCH", I don't believe there is ANY.. That is a difference! This whole idea of spirit IN or spirit UPON to me is just symantics. And when scripture is searched, the spirit is said to fill the Old Testament and be "IN" the Old Testament believer just as the New.. I don't have time to search, but it's been brought up here before with the scriptures, so I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to find.
Ok, I broke down and did a very quick check.. Numbers 27:18 and 1 Peter 4:14 is a ref to the opposite word being used in opposite sides of scripture.. But I'll let you look it up. This IN and UPON to me is just someones way of making a mountain out of a molehill, (that's about as kind as I can be on that...). And thus the reason I say they refer to the same, NO difference, not SOME.
Unfortunately, I don't give "parts" to the gift. Nor do I view "Christ in us" as anything near what has been mentioned thus far.
And as long as we agree on that, the rest is just academics and "unimportant" (TO ME)..
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TrustAndObey
Great list! How about:
Christian Family & Sex: Hey Baby, I'm spiritual enough, let's do it in all these positions!
Biblical Principals of a Believer's Family: It's time for me to make the whole family follow orders barked from HQ or else.
Rise and Expansion: Forget about Expansion, I am going to rise up and annoy the .... out of everyone.
Dealing with the Adversary: Look at me, I can beat that der adversary! (Only don't look at my life, ain't nothing happening)
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spectrum49
Pretty funny stuff, you two! Been there - done that.
I especially enjoyed the one about LCM promising to "rise up and annoy the .... out of everyone". Chased away quite a few, huh? Oh well - any way to have people leave TWI is justified in my sight! With our hindsight, isn't it ironic that he really may have (in reality) done a "good thing" by sending them away? Sort of reminds me of:
Job 5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong...
...15 But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth... [YEAH, BUDDY!]
Now, on a more serious note...for TrustAndObey:
About the "IN or UPON stuff": Personally, I never read in the NT that “the spirit departed” from anyone as it did Saul, for instance. And I do believe we cannot “lose our spirit” in the Grace Administration. But that is merely "my take" - no big deal.
Nevertheless, if we are to concern ourselves with the spirit’s OPERATION, I believe we do agree they are “one and the same” throughout the entire Bible.
And we don’t energize it – God does. Oh yes, we might “believe” for that, but there are constraints involved which relate to God’s justness. If we are out in “left field”, we are not in the “best position” to be receiving revelation & power in operation in the first place. And the same is true in OT times. Whether the spirit is truly “permanent” or not does not matter so much after all. Not much really happens in life without some level of obedience anyway. (And, even during "dire situations" I believe God's mercy is still big enough to allow it in order to protect "life & limb", so to speak.)
I really hate to nit pick – so no big deal about “in or upon”. It’s like you said, its “mostly academic anyway”.
Now back to more "fun & games"...I do promise to enjoy the "Light Show" as you had requested, but perhaps not the one you were referring to - it's really all about light in "one way or another", huh? :B)
So you see, my dear, this way EVERYONE can enjoy the "light show" - well, not everyone - but that's another topic...
SPEC
:)
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Gen-2
It's pretty understandable (and somewhat expected) thet everyone rode out of twi on their own tracks, and that there is a diversity of opinion regarding beliefs. If someone had set up a vendor's booth to hack religious wares as you left, he'd've been lucky to survive the day.
I started this thread with my opinion and a obvious curiosity
I've seen people misuse this gift, so I know that can be done. So how a person uses it is somewhat at their discretion. And yeah. it's a gift (holy spirit is). After that point you're dancing with God's words in a symantic rumba
Moses parted the Red Sea
God parted the Red Sea
"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided." (Exodus 14:21)
Roman Jewish historian Josephus Flavius speculated that the parting of the Red Sea "might be of God's will or of natural origin. Let everyone believe at his own discretion." The skeptic's skeptic, Sigmund Freud, called the Passover story "a pious myth," contending that Moses was a rebellious Egyptian prince who worshiped the sun god Aton and made up the Jewish religion as a political ploy.
That one's obviously a miracle, to me, the whole Red Sea Parting thing. I saw a TV show that says it was some natural phenomenon, and I have a friend named Mikey that says it's all BS storytime. And then there are those that speculate that the voice of God is a hallucination, Psych-types constantly attempt to cast doubt on most people's personal beliefs, in favor of their explanations.
Personally, my favorite ones are the ones that use the bible to achieve personal notoriety. But my question about spirit is now,... Wait!,... what's that?
My spider sense is tingling.......
better go now,
OFF to save the world yanno?
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Bolshevik
Now who's will was at work? Moses' or the Lord's? And by Lord it must mean Jesus.
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year2027
God first
thanks everybody
have you read about Joseph who dream in tongues and interpreted the dream
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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Gen-2
Yeah B,.... But why does it just seem logical to me (taking the position that the record is true) that if Moses hadn't raised his Hands - none of that would have mattered"
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Gen-2
Yes Roy, and I read your longer version of this in the "Speaking in Tongues" thread. We know that God gave those dreams to Joseph, and the interpretations, according to the accounts. It would seem that the Lord God enjoys working with people. Your view of them being a form of tongues is unique, though I have heard something like it before in a Pentecostal church sermon. They were more interested in the Interpretation side of it.
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geisha779
Some of the accounts in the OT make me laugh.
You have God in Exodus 20 telling Moses I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Seems God is taking credit here. . . . almost like He wasn't dependent on Moses raising the staff or something.
Then in 32 The LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. But then Moses comes back with No, No, No . . . YOUR PEOPLE... YOU DID IT! "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?
I know there is more to it, that in responding Moses is acknowledging God as the one who did(the exodus). . . . in pleading for Israel he is acknowledging they are God's people to do as He wills. Like Moses has any authority here other than appeal to God.
Probably not meant to be funny. . . . but, it still makes me laugh. . . mine, no yours, no, really, they are yours. . . fine, we will just kill them and start all over.
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Bolshevik
or just Moses wouldn't have mattered.
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year2027
God first
thanks Gen-2
yes my friend
we can understand tongues by dreams but can we understand the serpent by understanding God
Eve was tempted by serpent
but was she really tempted or was a lesson from to teach right from wrong
when we see the serpent has not bad or good just a lesson God is showing us
the lesson comes more important
then what we think of the serpent
God teaching about love because wants us to learn it good where we only love
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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