Is this who I think it is?

[Rejoice]

What's really funny are his listings. $600,000 for a house in New Bremen, OH. Bwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaahaaa!

The listings are for all agents in that area. He had one for about $164,000 and the house was 100 yrs old...I saw a listing for $650,000 but at the bottom it named another agent who had that listing.

[krys]

The listings are for all agents in that area. He had one for about $164,000 and the house was 100 yrs old...I saw a listing for $650,000 but at the bottom it named another agent who had that listing.

I didn't see any place where the amount of land was listed. A huge hunk could make a big difference.

[skyrider]

Well, the 46 hour work week pretty much canned all the work as many hours as you are told crap. About the same time the 46 hours came along they also did away with the need basis junk too. Staff are paid a "salary" and it's a pretty lousy salary at that. You get a really lame insurance plan that has less coverage than a mini-med, it even has lifetime limits that are really low. As soon as you go over the lifetime limit you are "unofficially" shown how to get Medicaid. So that should speak volumes regarding the low, crappy pay.

Let's explore the salary concept according to TWI. 46 hours a week is sold as being a salaried worker according to hourly pay. It's really not a salary at all. They pay people the absolute lowest they can for 40 hours and pay time and 1/2 for 6 hours. I suspect this is their way of masking the fact that most of the jobs at HQ are at minimum wage. How do I know you may ask? I saw minimum wage increases result in "raises" for many staffers.

Classes are run for the staff usually by cabinet area. Witnessing doesn't happen and isn't required for staff. The logic, if you call it that, is working your staff job is moving the word and being on staff you are serving in an increased capacity. I know, the whole ministry of reconciliation spiel that people on the field are fed conveniently goes out the window.

From this hq-staff disclosure........IT'S WORSE THAN I THOUGHT.

When staff are moonlighting as a rent-a-cop or wal-mart greeter, it drastically undermines the cult-zion mindset and takes the cutting edge off their rhetoric of "prevailing" or "abundance." The ship is sinking, the ship is sinking ... and yet, some staffers still have a hard time finding a lifeboat (hahahaha).

Give it another 10 years.....and hq will be a retirement center. Just section off half the warehouse for a swimming pool and exercise area.

[OldSkool]

From this hq-staff disclosure........IT'S WORSE THAN I THOUGHT.

When staff are moonlighting as a rent-a-cop or wal-mart greeter, it drastically undermines the cult-zion mindset and takes the cutting edge off their rhetoric of "prevailing" or "abundance." The ship is sinking, the ship is sinking ... and yet, some staffers still have a hard time finding a lifeboat (hahahaha).

Give it another 10 years.....and hq will be a retirement center. Just section off half the warehouse for a swimming pool and exercise area.

It is worse than I am describing too. It was bad enough back when Craig Martindale was running the show. But now headquarters has this superficial, sugary sweet, hypocritical, lovey dovey feel to it. Also, they have made so many efforts to be mindful of human resource and other laws relevant to a 501c3 that the directors are sorely limited from many of their old tyrannical ways. The old system is still there though, and in my opinion, it's worse because it's cloaked in that fake "sweetness" that Rosalie brought to the table. Plus there is no more rallying cry or "buy in point." So folks definitely lack that old united towards a common goal feel that used to be present. I think disillusionment aptly describes things.

I can't stress enough how much trouble they are having finding people to come on staff. It's been a couple years since I left but I remember during placements that Rosalie was talking about having advanced class grads serve as department coordinators. Of course it was presented like it was something Dr. Wierwille used to do and would be a good idea. I saw it for what it was - desperation and the results of attrition.

It's really become a preservation society. They have scrubbed Craig Martindale from everything possible and enshrined Dr. Wierwille.

On another note, I had several friends on the field running limbs/branches and I heard the same thing from all of them. The internet is kicking the crap out of them. Many, many people that are witnessed to hop on ye' olde interweb and google the way international. Guess what comes up? Yep....Grease Spot Cafe and others that bring all the dirty laundry to light. Needless to say most of the folks they witness to run like hell. Yet they persist in their "grassroots" efforts, going door to door, lurking in shopping malls and other stores, hitting friends, family, and fellow workers. Their model is outdated and ineffective. So when you factor in the neglible growth that happens on the field, the very restrictive debt policy, all the people who have left over the last several years, and the fact word has gotten out that HQ isn't the utopia that it was once thought to be - they are seriously hurting.

Instead of the winter staff dance, they will have Parcheesi Night - ya retirement center is the destination.

Edited February 4, 2010 by OldSkool

[Bolshevik]

. . . The old system is still there though, and in my opinion, it's worse because it's cloaked in that fake "sweetness" that Rosalie brought to the table.

. . .

It's a dual system, keeps you guessing really, they can implement and switch the old or new thinking as needed to manipulate.

[WordWolf]

(snip)

On another note, I had several friends on the field running limbs/branches and I heard the same thing from all of them. The internet is kicking the crap out of them. Many, many people that are witnessed to hop on ye' olde interweb and google the way international. Guess what comes up? Yep....Grease Spot Cafe and others that bring all the dirty laundry to light. Needless to say most of the folks they witness to run like hell. Yet they persist in their "grassroots" efforts, going door to door, lurking in shopping malls and other stores, hitting friends, family, and fellow workers. Their model is outdated and ineffective. So when you factor in the neglible growth that happens on the field, the very restrictive debt policy, all the people who have left over the last several years, and the fact word has gotten out that HQ isn't the utopia that it was once thought to be - they are seriously hurting.

(snip)

Good friend, we maintain the website for the people who become exposed to them.

An old man, going a lone highway,

Came at the evening, cold and gray,

To a chasm, vast and deep and wide,

Through which was flowing a sullen tide.

The old man crossed in the twilight dim;

The sullen stream had no fears for him;

But he turned when safe on the other side

And built a bridge to span the tide.

"Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near,

"You are wasting strength with building here;

Your journey will end with the ending day;

You never again must pass this way;

You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide -

Why build you at the eventide?"

The builder lifted his old gray head:

"Good friend, in the path I have come," he said,

"The followeth after me today

A youth whose feet must pass this way.

This chasm that has been naught to me

To that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be.

He, too, must cross in the twilight dim;

Good friend, I am building a bridge for him."

Will Allen Dromgoole (1860 - 1934)

[Bolshevik]

I can hear vpw's voice when I read that.

[WordWolf]

http://www.coldwellbankersouthshore.net/servlet/AgentListing?action=detail&ComColdwellbankerDataAgent_id=594832&page=agent&

My, what a skill at euphemism and rephrasing we see here!

"I've lived in the New Bremen, OH area for 29 years"

Right- lived on-grounds at a cult, and made sure most people were kept off-grounds for much of

those 29 years.

"My background includes experience in the bulding trades and project management."

Oh, I was impressed with this most of all!

"Experience in the 'bulding' trades" must refer to making sure

"Way Builders" kept buildings maintained.

"Project management" is referring to the bossing-around on-grounds of everyone

below him on the ladder.

It's like Jeffrey Dahmer writing that he has experience making "exotic cuisine"

(very few people, I admit, know how to prepare human flesh for digestion)

or John Wayne Gacy saying he's been a pillar of his local community, a member

of the Jaycees and even entertained children as a clown.

(True-but leaves out his vile acts and murders of minors when he says that...)

[Tzaia]

http://www.coldwellb...832&page=agent&

My, what a skill at euphemism and rephrasing we see here!

"I've lived in the New Bremen, OH area for 29 years"

Right- lived on-grounds at a cult, and made sure most people were kept off-grounds for much of

those 29 years.

"My background includes experience in the bulding trades and project management."

Oh, I was impressed with this most of all!

"Experience in the 'bulding' trades" must refer to making sure

"Way Builders" kept buildings maintained.

"Project management" is referring to the bossing-around on-grounds of everyone

below him on the ladder.

It's like Jeffrey Dahmer writing that he has experience making "exotic cuisine"

(very few people, I admit, know how to prepare human flesh for digestion)

or John Wayne Gacy saying he's been a pillar of his local community, a member

of the Jaycees and even entertained children as a clown.

(True-but leaves out his vile acts and murders of minors when he says that...)

The sad part would be if he really believed that's what he had been doing...you gotta admit that his spin on what he's been doing is priceless.

[skyrider]

I can't stress enough how much trouble they are having finding people to come on staff. It's been a couple years since I left but I remember during placements that Rosalie was talking about having advanced class grads serve as department coordinators. Of course it was presented like it was something Dr. Wierwille used to do and would be a good idea. I saw it for what it was - desperation and the results of attrition.

It's really become a preservation society. They have scrubbed Craig Martindale from everything possible and enshrined Dr. Wierwille.

On another note, I had several friends on the field running limbs/branches and I heard the same thing from all of them. The internet is kicking the crap out of them. Many, many people that are witnessed to hop on ye' olde interweb and google the way international. Guess what comes up? Yep....Grease Spot Cafe and others that bring all the dirty laundry to light. Needless to say most of the folks they witness to run like hell. Yet they persist in their "grassroots" efforts, going door to door, lurking in shopping malls and other stores, hitting friends, family, and fellow workers. Their model is outdated and ineffective. So when you factor in the neglible growth that happens on the field, the very restrictive debt policy, all the people who have left over the last several years, and the fact word has gotten out that HQ isn't the utopia that it was once thought to be - they are seriously hurting.

Instead of the winter staff dance, they will have Parcheesi Night - ya retirement center is the destination.

Thanks Oldskool for posting your observations and insight.

Twi cannot out-run the internet.....nor its past sins. The accumulative effect of twi's deception and manipulation and exploitation have permanently damaged its credibility.....an ongoing status that still, to this day, resides there. Clearly, its a shell of its former self.

Even if twi sits on their $48 million portfolio of investments/property.......so what? The scam is up. Greasespot Cafe is open 24/7 worldwide for all to see twi's hypocrisy and deceptive practices. Maybe the camera angles will have to be tightened up at the auditorium so the emptiness will not be as visible....but their reputation is an ongoing stench.

Watching twi's demise is like seeing a train wreck in slow motion......covering wierwille's sins, his cancerous death, geer's power-grab, martindale's call for allegience, homo purge, debt "research," all-corps-on-payroll-revelation, revelation fulfilled, martindale predation and ouster, rivenbark favoritism towards Donna, debt/no mortgage hoopla, mrs. w's final days, etc. So.........those of us who invested much of our lives in twi are NOT surprised at all.

And, when Lind3r......twi's "gatekeeper of secrets" is moonlighting and looking beyond twi's horizons, I think that its safe to say that Rosalie F. Rivenbark has ended her tenure with a mighty THUD.

<_<

Edited February 4, 2010 by skyrider

[OldSkool]

Thanks Oldskool for posting your observations and insight.

Your welcome. I'm glad I have the avenue to tell what I know. I get a sense of closure out of it and also can get a little justice along the way. I guess their habit of mishandling people really has some negative consequences. Especially since the way I was treated is directly related to me leaving that outfit and posting here today. Great job Rosalie! Guess you know by now that I'm not gonna silently creep off into the night.

Maybe the camera angles will have to be tightened up at the auditorium so the emptiness will not be as visible....but their reputation is an ongoing stench.

This has been going on for several years. They started rotating in branch/limb/region visits to try and fill the place up a little. They have trouble filling up the first three to four rows. It's funny.

[krys]

I can't stress enough how much trouble they are having finding people to come on staff. It's been a couple years since I left but I remember during placements that Rosalie was talking about having advanced class grads serve as department coordinators. Of course it was presented like it was something Dr. Wierwille used to do and would be a good idea. I saw it for what it was - desperation and the results of attrition.

It's really become a preservation society. They have scrubbed Craig Martindale from everything possible and enshrined Dr. Wierwille.

Imagine what about a dozen of us Greasespotters could do if we were to go and volunteer our services. We could do a boatload of damage from the inside....and if they didn't know who we were......meaning....not me....I'm sure they know who I am (heh heh). Seriously....think about it. I'll bet "we" could get the job done in under a year, including the sale of the property.

[OldSkool]

Imagine what about a dozen of us Greasespotters could do if we were to go and volunteer our services. We could do a boatload of damage from the inside....and if they didn't know who we were......meaning....not me....I'm sure they know who I am (heh heh). Seriously....think about it. I'll bet "we" could get the job done in under a year, including the sale of the property.

lol - They would immediately escort me off grounds.

[chockfull]

Your welcome. I'm glad I have the avenue to tell what I know. I get a sense of closure out of it and also can get a little justice along the way. I guess their habit of mishandling people really has some negative consequences. Especially since the way I was treated is directly related to me leaving that outfit and posting here today. Great job Rosalie! Guess you know by now that I'm not gonna silently creep off into the night.

Thanks for posting OldSkool. Good insight and details from the inside.

All these things remind me of a couple of scriptures, actually. I'm glad I don't need a worthless rubberstamp appoval anymore for thinking and sharing scripture.

Matt 12:25 ...Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.

and

I Tim. 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck.

Those idiots in their delusional paranoid positions are killing their own organization off from the inside with their devilish judgements, slander and ostracization of good Christian people. Rosalie even marked and avoided her own child from reports. So her pattern is to slander and destroy from the inside.

And they would say that of us regarding I Tim. 1:19, but we were never the ones steering the d@mn boat, so it's not us that is wrecking it on the shoals. Their treatment of the saints and of good people who have given their lives in service to God and their organization is what will testify against them eventually. Their decisions are making the family faith shipwreck.

Anyone whose conscience is not governed by good Christian concepts but requires being restrained by legal consequences has a conscience seared with a hot iron and is the lowest form of society, down by the criminals who only behave out of fear of consequence.

And you're d@mn right some of us aren't going to creep off silently into the night. As long as I have a pulse, a brain, and a Bible I will be telling the truth about these false prophets and apostles.

[skyrider]

Your welcome. I'm glad I have the avenue to tell what I know. I get a sense of closure out of it and also can get a little justice along the way. I guess their habit of mishandling people really has some negative consequences. Especially since the way I was treated is directly related to me leaving that outfit and posting here today. Great job Rosalie! Guess you know by now that I'm not gonna silently creep off into the night.

Yeah.....many of us know the confrontation that erupts before exiting twi. Wierwille had his yes-men and slanderous remarks of "cop outs" to drive out dissent and martindale escalated it to homo purges, debt purges, destructive and non-productive purges, mark & avoid letters, character assassinations and gun-strapped bodyguards to initiated "the bum's rush".......one, who entitles this thread.

Ten years ago.......P@ul All3n started the website Waydale as a result of twi's "mishandling people" (a gross understatement) and he certainly didn't go silently. On the contrary, he trumpeted the march of thousands who've felt the heavy hand of twi's leadership......with his tip of the spear being a lawsuit aimed at martindale's sexual predation on all3n's wife.

No silent retreat.........but a frontal assault!!! Waydale was awesome as current and damaging information was posted day after day. With a lawsuit pending, depositions being gathered, another lawsuit surfaced, six region coordinators resigned, limb coordinators exiting, twi's lawyers advised martindale to be ousted, etc etc.......hot topics were surfacing on a daily basis.

Lawsuit was won, waydale was closed......and the doors to GreaseSpot Cafe opened. With more and more disgruntled people leaving twi, there is bound to be more stories and postings in the upcoming months. Stay tuned.........and twi? Stay afraid.

[Belle]

They are certainly masters of spin. Wouldn't, though, anyone in the area know his true background? And, hopefully, avoid using his services?

Really pathetic. Makes me wonder how many jobs my ex is working up there trying to make up for lack of any savings and retirement. He gave up so much in the way of a promising career down here to work security at the compound.

[skyrider]

They scaled back a lot of positions in many departments over the past few years. They did give a pay increase a couple years ago. Rosalie announced it and then immediately in the next breath announced an increase in rent for on grounds housing. She hates moonlighting and has the same rhetoric that Wierwille hatched but she will not do anything because of laws. The Allen lawsuit really changed how they operate and interface with the staff. Rosalie hates that too.

The Allen lawsuit really changed how they operate and interface with the staff.

Did the Allen Lawsuit open the floodgates for several lawsuits from other staff women?

Did twi's lawyers counsel them to abolish many of their archaic practices set up by wierwille?

Did the staff mount a surge for better compensation and working conditions.......or else?

Did the "infallibility of the MOG" exposed (wizard behind the curtain) unshackle the bondage?

Did the massive hemorrhaging of innies (and their money) become the "knockdown punch" for twi?

Any of these..........or all of the above??

[OldSkool]

Did the Allen Lawsuit open the floodgates for several lawsuits from other staff women?

Not to my knowledge.

Did twi's lawyers counsel them to abolish many of their archaic practices set up by wierwille?

A resounding yes. Working in-house is Gary Frederick who gives much legal-esque advice, even though he is not a lawyer. I believe they still use Baker Hostetler, but who knows. http://www.bakerlaw.com/

The attorneys definitely have a hand in running the show by counsel. Basically, from my understanding, it boils down to this: In that a church's practices do not violate established laws the church may continue in it's practices. Personally, I think they really push the envelope on this one and sooner or later they will screw with the right person who will be savvy enough to document the case and file suit with a competent attorney. They have in no way abolished all of the old, illegal practices and many of the top leadership are totally ignorant of Human Resource matters.

Did the staff mount a surge for better compensation and working conditions.......or else?

Definitely not. Too many cheerleaders and spineless worms around to do that. Besides, the BOD are foolish enough to bite off their nose to spite their face. They would call the bluff and downsize or make due with what they have or whatever.

Did the "infallibility of the MOG" exposed (wizard behind the curtain) unshackle the bondage?

Not really. When I was there it was the same thing. A camp of quiet dissenters and a camp of cheerleaders. The dissenters usually leave staff and the cheerleaders are the dominant bunch. Any dissent that manages to make it's way to top leadership is squashed and dismissed via character assanation. i.e. - "So and so needs to renew their mind to blah....and learn to be thankful for blah...we have years of accumulated wisdom at the director level....blah....blah...." (I was actually told by a director that there is years of accumulated wisdom at the director level.... )

Did the massive hemorrhaging of innies (and their money) become the "knockdown punch" for twi?

No, they are too dense for that to make a difference and remain in denial to the on-going attrition. Nostalgia is the flip side of denial.

Edited February 8, 2010 by OldSkool

[Bolshevik]

. . . . Nostalgia is the flip side of denial.

I still like that one.

who was that lady that used to do housing financing for wayfers? in New Bremen? Maybe the BOD wanted to cut off her cut of the market.

[Tzaia]

This is a bit off the topic - maybe - but I remember how we were all supposed to serve as a sort of income generator for our fellow wayfers. They were (to be) the first choice when you were shopping for something. Having said that, with the policy towards debt, just exactly who in the household is he supposed to be selling home to? And with the debt policy, how can he (in good faith) sell a house to anyone? Is he no longer a part of TWI or has TWI altered its debt policy?

[Bolshevik]

Twi is not the only group with these policies. I think they even learn from Islam/Muslims.

[Ham]

So L*nder is out fending for himself.. to one degree or another..

what about his *replacement*?

I wonder how long it will be before it is a part time *job*..

you'll have to work nights in the mall in Cincinnati, fella..

well.. it would be better than coming home to..

I won't say.

you know..

coming home.. to NOTHING..

sorry, I said..

You have absolutely NO IDEA what you threw away..

[Ham]

V*^#e.. you are a M O R O N..

christ..

well, maybe rosie could make some arrangements for you..

oh, sorry. there aren't very many nice looking corps grads around..

hmm. We'll have to rethink this..

[Jim]

"I was actually told by a director that there is years of accumulated wisdom at the director level...."

You misspelt "prideful foolishness"

[chockfull]

Did the Allen Lawsuit open the floodgates for several lawsuits from other staff women?

January Parker / Barnes followed that, and was also settled for an undisclosed amount.

After that, Rosie and Harvey went down the laundry list of women involved with indiscretions and "counseled" them. Part of the "counseling" was to point out that these women were partly responsible as well because they must have done it for selfish reasons, or for their own advantage. This in effect staved off other potential lawsuits, as any other legal action from those still involved in TWI would be "ignoring director counsel". There are many of these still around and involved in TWI. Some of them that "had the goods" on LCM have traded that for a political favor and are protected from the wrath and character assassination of RR.

Any dissent that manages to make it's way to top leadership is squashed and dismissed via character assanation. i.e. - "So and so needs to renew their mind to blah....and learn to be thankful for blah...we have years of accumulated wisdom at the director level....blah....blah...." (I was actually told by a director that there is years of accumulated wisdom at the director level.... )

Only to be surpassed by their years of accumulated stubbornness, egotism, blindness, and mistreatment of the saints.