When I was asked to leave TWI in 2001 because I "didn't believe that the Trustees were leading 'the ministry' in the right direction" my oldest son had already left TWI on his own. The second oldest, 22 at the time, continued for a while, but at some point his involvement just petered out. The other four at the time aged 18, 15, 13 and 10, went because their mom told them to. When my ex-wife stopped attending, they did as well. To them, it was just something that their parents made them do and viewed it as many of us viewed our parents' churches when we joined up with TWI. In addition, to them TWI represented one of the reasons for their parents divorce. I've also recently found out that there was a lot of juvenile cruelty, name calling and the like going on behind our backs directed at my kids by other TWI kids. None of them look back at their TWI days with any fondness.
I'm glad your kids weren't up to their necks in TWI indoctrination or misplaced zeal. :) And I'm glad they recognized the childish religious taunting for what it was, mean and nasty. I could only wish that everybody came through it as well as your kids did.
I think some kids have a deeper hole to climb out of than others. Those that realize they are even in a hole have a head start. Cult is family. They are not gonna let go quietly, if they can help it.
anyway.. my kids are not involved. About a year after I left, the scumbags tried to sucker them to get involved.. so one of my offspring asked me.. she knew how sinister the old organization became.. and I said something like they will treat you like ROYALTY the first few meetings.. they will appear to be the nicest people on the face of the earth.. and that's how the meeting went.
I think some kids have a deeper hole to climb out of than others. Those that realize they are even in a hole have a head start. Cult is family. They are not gonna let go quietly, if they can help it.
Hi Bolshevik,
In my first post I made reference to how Barnard broke down family relationships in a deliberate effort to replace normal familial relationships with a world view where everything centers around his own life. And while your experience may not correlate directly I find your statement,"Cult is Family" to be interesting as a comparison point.
I think some of my old aquaintances, especially the younger ones, have no idea how normal and precious family can be because of how badly there own views of their parents were broken down and replaced with Wierwillian views of "a spiritual father, etc."
But for many people these days it seems like they may not have had much, if any, good familial relationships before they got involved in TWI. Speaking just for myself I count my broken childhood family and my reactions to that situation while growing up to be a major factor in why I was more vulnerable to the preaching of a supposedly spiritual, yet truly abusive TWI family in the first place.
And one more thing Bolshevik.....do you have any examples you can share of the type of struggle that you describe when you say,"They are not going to let it go quietly."?
(Edited for the sake of clarification and a typo.)
I've thought about this issue since the thread began and my thoughts have been all over the place in terms of my children, our family, etc. and the parts that some days feel broken as a result of TWI.
A year after my husband died, I left TWI, which meant I was taking my daughters, then 16 and 3, away from their paternal family, who were all in TWI. I knew what my girls would be missing out on in terms of grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins and the decision wasn't an easy one.
For nine years, we heard nothing from them, as expected, and since then there have been a smattering of contact events but nothing that could be considered improving the situation or healthy for the girls.
The disconnect is painful some times and really ok other times; depending if it's a birthday, holiday or event that I regret is being missed by their dad's family.
It's been a long process of reconciliation and quite a maze of decisions as their mom.
So, in answer to the original question, no, my kids are not still involved. I am most thankful for our communication process that affords them information on why I made the choices I did, actually for them, but the cost has been high.
I'd do it again the same way if presented with the same circumstances.
For my son, and based on my RRF experience I was all too well aware that that controlling bastard V. Barnard knew full well how to take control of my son's life and rub my nose in it if I let him.
I am sooooo thankful we have my son and your daughters Shellon. :wub:
And one more thing Bolshevik.....do you have any examples you can share of the type of struggle that you describe when you say,"They are not going to let it go quietly."?
. . .
The constant set-ups of false choice.
I.e.
"do you want to go to fellowship? It's your choice"
"okay, I don't want to go."
"get in the car, you're going"
Obviously, a trap, deliberate or not.
There's also when you leave home, twi is in every state. Where are you gonna go to self-reflect?
A year after my husband died, I left TWI, which meant I was taking my daughters, then 16 and 3, away from their paternal family, who were all in TWI. I knew what my girls would be missing out on in terms of grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins and the decision wasn't an easy one.
For nine years, we heard nothing from them, as expected, and since then there have been a smattering of contact events but nothing that could be considered improving the situation or healthy for the girls.
The disconnect is painful some times and really ok other times; depending if it's a birthday, holiday or event that I regret is being missed by their dad's family.
It's been a long process of reconciliation 'and quite a maze of decisions as their mom.
So, in answer to the original question, no, my kids are not still involved. I am most thankful for our communication process that affords them information on why I made the choices I did, actually for them, but the cost has been high.
I'd do it again the same way if presented with the same circumstances.
He he . . . That is the right course. . . . Only recently did I hear how common this is. It's hard cause you're always the bad guy. Oh well.
I'm not sure how to say it but here is my best attempt at it...
Once a deliberately encouraged group think has been become the norm always being "the bad guy" is automatically the result of going against the grain.
For me, I was the bad guy while fighting to have a child and desiring to being a father.And also, I was "the bad guy" while I was fighting to stay married to my ex-wife while she was selling out to this bastard who has been reported to have been sleeping with most, if not all of the women of "River Road Fellowship."
And as these things pertain to the topic of this thread, I am very concerned about those whose familial relationships were already broken down. On the one hand, how many parents are seeking to restore a healthy relationship with their kids. And how many kids are so far gone from their parents that they don't even realize that their knee-jerk rejection of their parents is simply a result of being manipulated by a skilled sociopathic predator.
And even for those that are in this situation, knowing how to come out of this situation and deal with it is a long, long process, and certainly not easy IMO.
Jeff- there are a lot of people who don't like to be disagreed with, period. Having said that, cults have a way of attracting people who are more prone to that behavior.
He he . . . That is the right course. . . . Only recently did I hear how common this is. It's hard cause you're always the bad guy. Oh well.
Yeah, Bolshevik, I did (and often still do where family/twi is concerned) most quickly become the bad guy.... ummm girl.
The perhaps easier part of wearing that particular title, crown and sash included, no batteries required, was that I knew full well going with my decision and actions, that I would be that particular winner.
I think that helped, at least in part, as it aleviated most of the shock and surprise factor as things unfolded and the fecal matter hit the air conditioner which was, of course, set on turbo in short order.
I would, as I said, do it mostly the same way again. The toughest was and remains my daughters and the great loss to their lives as they lost their father, then his entire family, my 17 year old lost friends and the little stability we'd been struggling to find foot on after her dad's death. No good mom wants to purposely turn her children's worlds upside down, especially after it's just been tipped, spilled and most of it was still gone.
As nearly 12 years has come and gone now I can't help but continue to amaze at that same young woman, my 28 year old daughter and see the strengths and wealth of love and good in her and it sufficiently serves to remind me that I made the right choice. Her 14 year old sister, who has no memory of TWI save for "singing was fun" and has almost as little memory of her dad's family save for an uncle chasing lizards with her the afternoon of their dad's memorial service; she was 23 months old. The latter I'd prefer was fuller in her memory, but they, too, made their choices. I was asked, recently, if their dad would be proud of "what I did" in leaving TWI, would he be proud of us, how would he feel about my care of his children given the circumstances faced. My answer was and remains a resounding YES he would. And would he be angry with the choices others made and directed at us because I chose to protect his children. An even bigger YES!
I am a blessed woman to have my family intact and strong and to have the joy to continue to learn from my daughters, to continue to be the mom they need, to continue to grow in my strength, to have never lost God and His infinite goodness and love in my life. Jeff and I are building our lives under that same incredibly fortunate umbrella of love, communication, understanding, passion and it's such a source of pride for me that he, having lost so much himself, and I can remain with enough of what is needed to put it all together into even more solid love than we each experienced while in TWI and he in River Road Fellowship.
Finally, I'd add that our children are involved with us, with our experiences and our joy and our love and I can not contemplate a better way to teach them understanding of family and love and doing what they have to do with a given situation and doing their damn best to keep their heads up in pride of knowing that, even if their actions might be most painful and it's going to be a pretty tough trek because of some decision, they'll not lose family, they'll not lose support of us or each other, they'll not lose laughter, they'll not lose that unconditional good that their parents had to endure.
I just don't think it gets better than that in this life for kids involved in any thing.
I am a blessed woman to have my family intact and strong and to have the joy to continue to learn from my daughters, to continue to be the mom they need, to continue to grow in my strength, to have never lost God and His infinite goodness and love in my life. Jeff and I are building our lives under that same incredibly fortunate umbrella of love, communication, understanding, passion and it's such a source of pride for me that he, having lost so much himself, and I can remain with enough of what is needed to put it all together into even more solid love than we each experienced while in TWI and he in River Road Fellowship.
Finally, I'd add that our children are involved with us, with our experiences and our joy and our love and I can not contemplate a better way to teach them understanding of family and love and doing what they have to do with a given situation and doing their damn best to keep their heads up in pride of knowing that, even if their actions might be most painful and it's going to be a pretty tough trek because of some decision, they'll not lose family, they'll not lose support of us or each other, they'll not lose laughter, they'll not lose that unconditional good that their parents had to endure.
I just don't think it gets better than that in this life for kids involved in any thing.
Wow, Shellon. You and Jeff "are a gig"? I guess I don't get out much. That's awesome for you guys.
In My case I'm the kid (though 29 now), I'm not in the Way. Never was. But My dad was a tremendous influence in my life. Taught me the Bible. Much of that obviously came from what he learned in the Way. Never did I have the troubles many of you describe, and I'm certainly not complaining about that fact. Dad never made me go anywhere for Way things and he got out when I was little in 1990. Now I was only ten then.
So till I was 10 I could have been in the Way, except for one thing I have Aspergers Syndrome and was totally Autistic as a little kid. I spoke my first words when I was seven. Good news is I am now working on a PhD (yes I have some difficulties yet) Mom died a while back. Dad Died last year and I have lots of teaching in my head that might be wrong. So I am trying to sort it out.
Greasespot has been helpful. As an unregistered person I read so much from the site.
By the time I was understanding enough to go to fellowships, dad was no longer in the Way
Mom's and Dad's don't tell kids everything, but I lknow they were both hurt by the Way very bad.
So In my case, I'm the kid. I'm grown up, Self sufficient, and have no one in this world. I suppose until I sort out Way Teachings and decide what is right for me the best I can, I am still inviolved. but in a different way. Events put in action can have ramifications to others. I guess I'm just a ramification.
I think most all of us as former or even current Wayfers are ramifications in some sense Gen-2.
And IMO no matter our ages or individual situations there is inherint value in our lives and our journey.
And all of us have things to give.
I'm thankful for your parents to have set you on this journey with God and His Word. And IMO you are no less valuable than the bigshots with connections and the history that makes them feel to be "all that."
I think most all of us as former or even current Wayfers are ramifications in some sense Gen-2.
And IMO no matter our ages or individual situations there is inherint value in our lives and our journey.
And all of us have things to give.
I'm thankful for your parents to have set you on this journey with God and His Word. And IMO you are no less valuable than the bigshots with connections and the history that makes them feel to be "all that."
for over 15 years me and my wife forced our kids to go to fellowship for the most part there was nothing for them to do but sit on the floor and keep quiet a great way to know god ? one of many reasons for leaving the way was nothing for the children to be involved in . we are long gone now a found a great church where there is teen fellowship and also for the childred too . most if not all the kid that were in the way at the time haved moved on without the way international in their lives (form last count there is less then 25 belivers standing in south florida ) praise the lord !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sticking with a sinking stinking ship is more like it. Standing makes it sound like they are doing something noble and good. Believers in what? Being stubborn?
I think the info posted by Jeff could be really helpful for someone who might be trying to get out of a a TWI group now.
My kids were in early elementary school when we left, children's fellowship had been abandoned a couple years before, and though we never talked about it back then, hubby and I were uncomfortable about how our children were treated in the fellowship as if they were horrible behavior problems, while in fact they were well behaved then and now. Sitting on the floor( like STAYAWAY mentioned) and listening to a rehash of LCM's latest tape--gack, it was hard for the adults!
About year after we left TWI we took the kids to Hubby's mom's Methodist church(an attempt to rebuild a relationship, too) which had a wonderful children's progam, and it was a big church where we could kind of blend in with the crowd and process on our own. WHile hubby and I are not church goers, our kids are still off and on involved in the Methodist church teen progam, which ahs a summer camp/theater experience for teens we contribute to.
The biggest issue we have had with TWI child rearing is that all our kids needed to be perfect in their own eyes. This caused tears and stress in elementary school but seems to have relaxed now. I'm hopeful they have a better balance in acheiving their best vs crashing when something doesn't go well. Competitive activities actually seemed to help, because sometimes you win or a team mate they admire does, sometimes you lose, and losing isn't the end of the world.
Since my oldest is in the hospital after having major surgery yesterday and my youngest is ill with something intestinal as well as something we're not completely sure of yet, I'm reminded of dealing with medical issues in TWI.
So much easier, now, to just take care of things and not have to just believe God or TWI's guilt laden bullshi+ and never know for sure if I'm doing what's right for my child; taking a shot and hoping, then of course facing the consequences of my inaction, bad choices cuz I listened to the wrong person, or faced my self in the mirror when my child was still sick after I'd wasted days following silliness. For me that nonsense started off quickly when my oldest was a year old; my inaction almost killed her and you think TWI would have backed me up or visited me in prison?
I know my child, period, amen, the end.
Now I can act accordingly, freely, confidently. And I don't have to wait for some one's permission or stupid opinion about a kid they've never met, don't know like I do or has lumped into some pile of "my kid had that and.........."
While in TWI, that was always my biggest pain. I'm the mom and it's my job and my responsibility to know what she needs. And I do.
In this I am thankful, TWI seems to be a dried and dead pile of stale, rehashed, subpar biblical fellowship for most kids nowadays based on what I've heard.
Not so much in my former splinter group "River Road Fellowship." Although considering how my former associates are steeped in denial that is lamely covered by twisted TWI style cliches RRF folks seemed headed down the same TWI style road.
The younger generation rightly rejects their parents' foolishness and the parents are stuck in a place of inaction and stupidity IMO. In the case of some of the younger ones that have left they actually seem fairly well enthralled by the very son of the one who so abused their mothers...sad. But it was not too long ago when their youthful exuberance was spent on the one who so brutally destroyed families and set himself up as the so-called "Word in the Flesh."
______________________________
River Road Felllowship under the leadership of Victor Barnard, 14th Corps grad:
Abused women and girls.
Broken families.
Idiots in denial held captive by religious cliches within some twisted and freaky group think.
Younger adults enthralled and controlled by Barnard's methods being led to a place that looks new but still under the same old yolk of deception and manipulation.
______________________________
I seems to me that much of this may not apply to TWI as a whole, perhaps because TWI is very much farther along the road to simply drying up and being blown away, lost forever in every sense except the Lord will remember IMO.
But perhaps for some, whether another splinter or as it may relate to more current recruits this thread may be a good read. I hope so.
Since my oldest is in the hospital after having major surgery yesterday and my youngest is ill with something intestinal as well as something we're not completely sure of yet, I'm reminded of dealing with medical issues in TWI.
So much easier, now, to just take care of things and not have to just believe God or TWI's guilt laden bullshi+ and never know for sure if I'm doing what's right for my child; taking a shot and hoping, then of course facing the consequences of my inaction, bad choices cuz I listened to the wrong person, or faced my self in the mirror when my child was still sick after I'd wasted days following silliness. For me that nonsense started off quickly when my oldest was a year old; my inaction almost killed her and you think TWI would have backed me up or visited me in prison?
I know my child, period, amen, the end.
Now I can act accordingly, freely, confidently. And I don't have to wait for some one's permission or stupid opinion about a kid they've never met, don't know like I do or has lumped into some pile of "my kid had that and.........."
While in TWI, that was always my biggest pain. I'm the mom and it's my job and my responsibility to know what she needs. And I do.
I'm sorry about your health issues, but i agree--TWI made any health issue worse! The reproof/guilt inducing, where did you blow it crap. No support, help or compassion.
One of my kids had double ear infections, strep throat and a slight case of pneumonia following a case of flu. We were of course thoroughly reamed about the flu...so when kid got even sicker we didn't say a word. No loving household believers praying for our kid to get well. I figured it would wreck my 'believing' to go through another reaming.
Kid got well, and later after we left TWi, kid got tonsils removed and has rarely been ill since then.
Thanks Bramble, yup, sad isn't it? And of course my children's father died and was held up as an example of unbelief after he died. See people, this is what we mean, ya believe us now?
It's tough enough when our babies are sick without their bullshi+, guilt, condemnation and the added stress of them just freakin breathing near us.
A few health issues have come up since we got the heck outa there and I've remained so thankful that I didn't have to jump through their hoops, answering their questions, acting on their suggestions and revelations and discernations and confusion while knowing that I, as the mom, already know what to do.
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Oakspear
When I was asked to leave TWI in 2001 because I "didn't believe that the Trustees were leading 'the ministry' in the right direction" my oldest son had already left TWI on his own. The second oldest, 22 at the time, continued for a while, but at some point his involvement just petered out. The other four at the time aged 18, 15, 13 and 10, went because their mom told them to. When my ex-wife stopped attending, they did as well. To them, it was just something that their parents made them do and viewed it as many of us viewed our parents' churches when we joined up with TWI. In addition, to them TWI represented one of the reasons for their parents divorce. I've also recently found out that there was a lot of juvenile cruelty, name calling and the like going on behind our backs directed at my kids by other TWI kids. None of them look back at their TWI days with any fondness.
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JeffSjo
Hi Oakspear,
I'm glad your kids weren't up to their necks in TWI indoctrination or misplaced zeal. :) And I'm glad they recognized the childish religious taunting for what it was, mean and nasty. I could only wish that everybody came through it as well as your kids did.
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Bolshevik
I think some kids have a deeper hole to climb out of than others. Those that realize they are even in a hole have a head start. Cult is family. They are not gonna let go quietly, if they can help it.
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Ham
Oops.. posted in the wrong place..
anyway.. my kids are not involved. About a year after I left, the scumbags tried to sucker them to get involved.. so one of my offspring asked me.. she knew how sinister the old organization became.. and I said something like they will treat you like ROYALTY the first few meetings.. they will appear to be the nicest people on the face of the earth.. and that's how the meeting went.
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JeffSjo
Hi Bolshevik,
In my first post I made reference to how Barnard broke down family relationships in a deliberate effort to replace normal familial relationships with a world view where everything centers around his own life. And while your experience may not correlate directly I find your statement,"Cult is Family" to be interesting as a comparison point.
I think some of my old aquaintances, especially the younger ones, have no idea how normal and precious family can be because of how badly there own views of their parents were broken down and replaced with Wierwillian views of "a spiritual father, etc."
But for many people these days it seems like they may not have had much, if any, good familial relationships before they got involved in TWI. Speaking just for myself I count my broken childhood family and my reactions to that situation while growing up to be a major factor in why I was more vulnerable to the preaching of a supposedly spiritual, yet truly abusive TWI family in the first place.
And one more thing Bolshevik.....do you have any examples you can share of the type of struggle that you describe when you say,"They are not going to let it go quietly."?
(Edited for the sake of clarification and a typo.)
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Shellon
I've thought about this issue since the thread began and my thoughts have been all over the place in terms of my children, our family, etc. and the parts that some days feel broken as a result of TWI.
A year after my husband died, I left TWI, which meant I was taking my daughters, then 16 and 3, away from their paternal family, who were all in TWI. I knew what my girls would be missing out on in terms of grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins and the decision wasn't an easy one.
For nine years, we heard nothing from them, as expected, and since then there have been a smattering of contact events but nothing that could be considered improving the situation or healthy for the girls.
The disconnect is painful some times and really ok other times; depending if it's a birthday, holiday or event that I regret is being missed by their dad's family.
It's been a long process of reconciliation and quite a maze of decisions as their mom.
So, in answer to the original question, no, my kids are not still involved. I am most thankful for our communication process that affords them information on why I made the choices I did, actually for them, but the cost has been high.
I'd do it again the same way if presented with the same circumstances.
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JeffSjo
For my son, and based on my RRF experience I was all too well aware that that controlling bastard V. Barnard knew full well how to take control of my son's life and rub my nose in it if I let him.
I am sooooo thankful we have my son and your daughters Shellon. :wub:
(edited to correct a typo)
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Bolshevik
The constant set-ups of false choice.
I.e.
"do you want to go to fellowship? It's your choice"
"okay, I don't want to go."
"get in the car, you're going"
Obviously, a trap, deliberate or not.
There's also when you leave home, twi is in every state. Where are you gonna go to self-reflect?
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Bolshevik
He he . . . That is the right course. . . . Only recently did I hear how common this is. It's hard cause you're always the bad guy. Oh well.
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JeffSjo
Hi Bolshevik,
I'm not sure how to say it but here is my best attempt at it...
Once a deliberately encouraged group think has been become the norm always being "the bad guy" is automatically the result of going against the grain.
For me, I was the bad guy while fighting to have a child and desiring to being a father.And also, I was "the bad guy" while I was fighting to stay married to my ex-wife while she was selling out to this bastard who has been reported to have been sleeping with most, if not all of the women of "River Road Fellowship."
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JeffSjo
And as these things pertain to the topic of this thread, I am very concerned about those whose familial relationships were already broken down. On the one hand, how many parents are seeking to restore a healthy relationship with their kids. And how many kids are so far gone from their parents that they don't even realize that their knee-jerk rejection of their parents is simply a result of being manipulated by a skilled sociopathic predator.
And even for those that are in this situation, knowing how to come out of this situation and deal with it is a long, long process, and certainly not easy IMO.
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Tzaia
Jeff- there are a lot of people who don't like to be disagreed with, period. Having said that, cults have a way of attracting people who are more prone to that behavior.
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Shellon
Yeah, Bolshevik, I did (and often still do where family/twi is concerned) most quickly become the bad guy.... ummm girl.
The perhaps easier part of wearing that particular title, crown and sash included, no batteries required, was that I knew full well going with my decision and actions, that I would be that particular winner.
I think that helped, at least in part, as it aleviated most of the shock and surprise factor as things unfolded and the fecal matter hit the air conditioner which was, of course, set on turbo in short order.
I would, as I said, do it mostly the same way again. The toughest was and remains my daughters and the great loss to their lives as they lost their father, then his entire family, my 17 year old lost friends and the little stability we'd been struggling to find foot on after her dad's death. No good mom wants to purposely turn her children's worlds upside down, especially after it's just been tipped, spilled and most of it was still gone.
As nearly 12 years has come and gone now I can't help but continue to amaze at that same young woman, my 28 year old daughter and see the strengths and wealth of love and good in her and it sufficiently serves to remind me that I made the right choice. Her 14 year old sister, who has no memory of TWI save for "singing was fun" and has almost as little memory of her dad's family save for an uncle chasing lizards with her the afternoon of their dad's memorial service; she was 23 months old. The latter I'd prefer was fuller in her memory, but they, too, made their choices. I was asked, recently, if their dad would be proud of "what I did" in leaving TWI, would he be proud of us, how would he feel about my care of his children given the circumstances faced. My answer was and remains a resounding YES he would. And would he be angry with the choices others made and directed at us because I chose to protect his children. An even bigger YES!
I am a blessed woman to have my family intact and strong and to have the joy to continue to learn from my daughters, to continue to be the mom they need, to continue to grow in my strength, to have never lost God and His infinite goodness and love in my life. Jeff and I are building our lives under that same incredibly fortunate umbrella of love, communication, understanding, passion and it's such a source of pride for me that he, having lost so much himself, and I can remain with enough of what is needed to put it all together into even more solid love than we each experienced while in TWI and he in River Road Fellowship.
Finally, I'd add that our children are involved with us, with our experiences and our joy and our love and I can not contemplate a better way to teach them understanding of family and love and doing what they have to do with a given situation and doing their damn best to keep their heads up in pride of knowing that, even if their actions might be most painful and it's going to be a pretty tough trek because of some decision, they'll not lose family, they'll not lose support of us or each other, they'll not lose laughter, they'll not lose that unconditional good that their parents had to endure.
I just don't think it gets better than that in this life for kids involved in any thing.
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chockfull
Wow, Shellon. You and Jeff "are a gig"? I guess I don't get out much. That's awesome for you guys.
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Gen-2
In My case I'm the kid (though 29 now), I'm not in the Way. Never was. But My dad was a tremendous influence in my life. Taught me the Bible. Much of that obviously came from what he learned in the Way. Never did I have the troubles many of you describe, and I'm certainly not complaining about that fact. Dad never made me go anywhere for Way things and he got out when I was little in 1990. Now I was only ten then.
So till I was 10 I could have been in the Way, except for one thing I have Aspergers Syndrome and was totally Autistic as a little kid. I spoke my first words when I was seven. Good news is I am now working on a PhD (yes I have some difficulties yet) Mom died a while back. Dad Died last year and I have lots of teaching in my head that might be wrong. So I am trying to sort it out.
Greasespot has been helpful. As an unregistered person I read so much from the site.
By the time I was understanding enough to go to fellowships, dad was no longer in the Way
Mom's and Dad's don't tell kids everything, but I lknow they were both hurt by the Way very bad.
So In my case, I'm the kid. I'm grown up, Self sufficient, and have no one in this world. I suppose until I sort out Way Teachings and decide what is right for me the best I can, I am still inviolved. but in a different way. Events put in action can have ramifications to others. I guess I'm just a ramification.
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JeffSjo
I think most all of us as former or even current Wayfers are ramifications in some sense Gen-2.
And IMO no matter our ages or individual situations there is inherint value in our lives and our journey.
And all of us have things to give.
I'm thankful for your parents to have set you on this journey with God and His Word. And IMO you are no less valuable than the bigshots with connections and the history that makes them feel to be "all that."
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STAYAWAY
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STAYAWAY
for over 15 years me and my wife forced our kids to go to fellowship for the most part there was nothing for them to do but sit on the floor and keep quiet a great way to know god ? one of many reasons for leaving the way was nothing for the children to be involved in . we are long gone now a found a great church where there is teen fellowship and also for the childred too . most if not all the kid that were in the way at the time haved moved on without the way international in their lives (form last count there is less then 25 belivers standing in south florida ) praise the lord !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tzaia
Sticking with a sinking stinking ship is more like it. Standing makes it sound like they are doing something noble and good. Believers in what? Being stubborn?
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Bramble
I think the info posted by Jeff could be really helpful for someone who might be trying to get out of a a TWI group now.
My kids were in early elementary school when we left, children's fellowship had been abandoned a couple years before, and though we never talked about it back then, hubby and I were uncomfortable about how our children were treated in the fellowship as if they were horrible behavior problems, while in fact they were well behaved then and now. Sitting on the floor( like STAYAWAY mentioned) and listening to a rehash of LCM's latest tape--gack, it was hard for the adults!
About year after we left TWI we took the kids to Hubby's mom's Methodist church(an attempt to rebuild a relationship, too) which had a wonderful children's progam, and it was a big church where we could kind of blend in with the crowd and process on our own. WHile hubby and I are not church goers, our kids are still off and on involved in the Methodist church teen progam, which ahs a summer camp/theater experience for teens we contribute to.
The biggest issue we have had with TWI child rearing is that all our kids needed to be perfect in their own eyes. This caused tears and stress in elementary school but seems to have relaxed now. I'm hopeful they have a better balance in acheiving their best vs crashing when something doesn't go well. Competitive activities actually seemed to help, because sometimes you win or a team mate they admire does, sometimes you lose, and losing isn't the end of the world.
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Shellon
Since my oldest is in the hospital after having major surgery yesterday and my youngest is ill with something intestinal as well as something we're not completely sure of yet, I'm reminded of dealing with medical issues in TWI.
So much easier, now, to just take care of things and not have to just believe God or TWI's guilt laden bullshi+ and never know for sure if I'm doing what's right for my child; taking a shot and hoping, then of course facing the consequences of my inaction, bad choices cuz I listened to the wrong person, or faced my self in the mirror when my child was still sick after I'd wasted days following silliness. For me that nonsense started off quickly when my oldest was a year old; my inaction almost killed her and you think TWI would have backed me up or visited me in prison?
I know my child, period, amen, the end.
Now I can act accordingly, freely, confidently. And I don't have to wait for some one's permission or stupid opinion about a kid they've never met, don't know like I do or has lumped into some pile of "my kid had that and.........."
While in TWI, that was always my biggest pain. I'm the mom and it's my job and my responsibility to know what she needs. And I do.
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JeffSjo
In this I am thankful, TWI seems to be a dried and dead pile of stale, rehashed, subpar biblical fellowship for most kids nowadays based on what I've heard.
Not so much in my former splinter group "River Road Fellowship." Although considering how my former associates are steeped in denial that is lamely covered by twisted TWI style cliches RRF folks seemed headed down the same TWI style road.
The younger generation rightly rejects their parents' foolishness and the parents are stuck in a place of inaction and stupidity IMO. In the case of some of the younger ones that have left they actually seem fairly well enthralled by the very son of the one who so abused their mothers...sad. But it was not too long ago when their youthful exuberance was spent on the one who so brutally destroyed families and set himself up as the so-called "Word in the Flesh."
______________________________
River Road Felllowship under the leadership of Victor Barnard, 14th Corps grad:
Abused women and girls.
Broken families.
Idiots in denial held captive by religious cliches within some twisted and freaky group think.
Younger adults enthralled and controlled by Barnard's methods being led to a place that looks new but still under the same old yolk of deception and manipulation.
______________________________
I seems to me that much of this may not apply to TWI as a whole, perhaps because TWI is very much farther along the road to simply drying up and being blown away, lost forever in every sense except the Lord will remember IMO.
But perhaps for some, whether another splinter or as it may relate to more current recruits this thread may be a good read. I hope so.
(edited for spelling errors)
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Bramble
I'm sorry about your health issues, but i agree--TWI made any health issue worse! The reproof/guilt inducing, where did you blow it crap. No support, help or compassion.
One of my kids had double ear infections, strep throat and a slight case of pneumonia following a case of flu. We were of course thoroughly reamed about the flu...so when kid got even sicker we didn't say a word. No loving household believers praying for our kid to get well. I figured it would wreck my 'believing' to go through another reaming.
Kid got well, and later after we left TWi, kid got tonsils removed and has rarely been ill since then.
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Shellon
Thanks Bramble, yup, sad isn't it? And of course my children's father died and was held up as an example of unbelief after he died. See people, this is what we mean, ya believe us now?
It's tough enough when our babies are sick without their bullshi+, guilt, condemnation and the added stress of them just freakin breathing near us.
A few health issues have come up since we got the heck outa there and I've remained so thankful that I didn't have to jump through their hoops, answering their questions, acting on their suggestions and revelations and discernations and confusion while knowing that I, as the mom, already know what to do.
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