Unless someone's ideas about god are dangerous to others, I don't see much reason to get too excited about what someone else believes or doesn't believe. Their different belief does not change what you know or have experienced, does it? And you can't make someone else feel or experience what you feel, though you can try to express it.
It's a big wide world full of many different beliefs. If someone is trying to make you feel bad or wrong about what you believe, then why engage them? You are not going to change them, they will change themselves perhaps. That is their problem. Find some place and people you can enjoy.
But in truth there is a God and there is not a God but can both ways be right because is not flesh and everything of this world is made of dirt which is flesh. Neither was God ever made or created God is like love it just there.
All creation was made, formed, and creative but God has always been because God is greater than creation itself. God is less than creation too because is a greater form of being than anything made of flesh, formed from flesh, or creation from flesh.
Spirit is imagine from creation a by creation of creation itself by believing in love itself the real God love itself. God is not a God of power but a God of love and truth that never ends.
Roy, I can't answer your questions, but your post did make me wonder...
If God is love, then to whom or what was His love directed before he created the earth? And where will it go when we are gone?
If God is love, then to whom or what was His love directed before he created the earth? And where will it go when we are gone?
Well there, now you are asking the really fun questions! :)
Is God really dependent on His creation . . . . any of His creation to actualize His love? That would make the creation just as important as God. . . . wouldn't it? He would be incomplete without it.
God is anything but incomplete. God is eternal. Good is not just the absence of evil. . . that is a finite definition, but evil is not eternal . . . is it? That goodness of God is also related within Himself and not dependent on creation to be actualized. It is not dependent on evil to exist.
I Am that I Am. . . . .many of the attributes of God have relatedness. . . . God delights within Himself and loves within Himself. He has created us out of that overflowing abundance of love to partake in it. To worship and be fulfilled in delighting in God.
Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name;
worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness.
God gives all things, but needs nothing from us. . . .He offers us the greatest gift. . . Himself
From John Piper. . . Desiring God.
"Since the Son is the image of God and the reflection of God and the stamp of God and the form of God, equal with God, and indeed IS God, therefore God's delight in the Son is delight in himself. Therefore the original, the primal, the deepest, the foundational joy of God is the joy he has in his own perfections as he sees them reflected in his Son. He loves the Son and delights in the Son and takes pleasure in the Son because the Son is God himself.
At first this sounds like vanity, and has the feel of conceitedness and smugness and selfishness about it, because that is what it would mean if any of us found our first and deepest joy by looking at ourselves in the mirror. We would be vain and conceited and smug and selfish.
But why? Because we were created for something infinitely better and nobler and greater and deeper than self-contemplation. What? The contemplation and enjoyment of God! Anything less than this would be idolatry. God is the most glorious of all beings. Not to love him and delight in him is a great insult to his worth.
But the same is true for God. How shall God not insult what is infinitely beautiful and glorious? How shall God not commit idolatry? There is only one possible answer: God must love and delight in his own beauty and perfection above all things. For us to do this in front of the mirror is the essence of vanity; for God to do it in front of his Son is the essence of righteousness.
Isn't the essence of righteousness to be moved by perfect delight in what is perfectly glorious? And isn't the opposite of righteousness when we set our highest affections on the things of little or no worth?
And so the righteousness of God is the infinite zeal and joy and pleasure that he has in his own worth and glory. And if he were to ever act contrary to this eternal passion for his own perfections, he would be unrighteous; he would be an idolater.
Herein lies the greatest obstacle to our salvation: for how shall such a righteous God ever set his affection on sinners like us? But herein lies also the very foundation of our salvation, for it is precisely the infinite regard that the Father has for the Son which makes it possible for me, a wicked sinner, to be loved and accepted in the Son, because in his death he restored all the insult and injury that I had done to the Father's glory through my sin.
. . . . . . . .
God is the most excellent and worthy of all beings. Why? Because he has loved his Son, the image of his own glory, with infinite and perfect energy from all eternity. How glorious and happy have been the Father and the Son and the Spirit of love flowing between them from all eternity!"
Not to hijack Roy's thread or anything but you said,
"Is God really dependent on His creation . . . . any of His creation to actualize His love? That would make the creation just as important as God. . . . wouldn't it? He would be incomplete without it.
God is anything but incomplete. God is eternal."
I agree with what you said there. And since God is eternal and we (the earth) are not, I have to believe that we (the earth's inhabitants) are not the only sentient beings He has ever created. After all, he created the universe (Genesis 1:16) and it's a very big universe and it's been around a long time and it will be around long after the earth is gone.
Not to hijack Roy's thread or anything but you said,
"Is God really dependent on His creation . . . . any of His creation to actualize His love? That would make the creation just as important as God. . . . wouldn't it? He would be incomplete without it.
God is anything but incomplete. God is eternal."
I agree with what you said there. And since God is eternal and we (the earth) are not, I have to believe that we (the earth's inhabitants) are not the only sentient beings He has ever created. After all, he created the universe (Genesis 1:16) and it's a very big universe and it's been around a long time and it will be around long after the earth is gone.
Scripture does speak about other created beings. . . . heavenly hosts. . . . but, like CS Lewis, I wouldn't be surprised by anything else out there. . . . you do know scripture speaks about a new earth or one not cursed by sin? Part of the hope. :) http://www.gotquesti...vens-earth.html
God offers eternity to delight in Him.
Sorry to Roy. . . . I don't want to takeover his thread either. . . . I have a way of doing that!
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year2027
God first
What is real God is true or not?
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love Roy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp-S5dbMmPI
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Bramble
Unless someone's ideas about god are dangerous to others, I don't see much reason to get too excited about what someone else believes or doesn't believe. Their different belief does not change what you know or have experienced, does it? And you can't make someone else feel or experience what you feel, though you can try to express it.
It's a big wide world full of many different beliefs. If someone is trying to make you feel bad or wrong about what you believe, then why engage them? You are not going to change them, they will change themselves perhaps. That is their problem. Find some place and people you can enjoy.
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year2027
God first
thanks Bramble
yes nothing someone feels or experience matters anything
i like to hear others views
and compare them to my own understanding
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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soul searcher
Roy, I can't answer your questions, but your post did make me wonder...
If God is love, then to whom or what was His love directed before he created the earth? And where will it go when we are gone?
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year2027
God first
thanks soul searcher
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geisha779
Well there, now you are asking the really fun questions! :)
Is God really dependent on His creation . . . . any of His creation to actualize His love? That would make the creation just as important as God. . . . wouldn't it? He would be incomplete without it.
God is anything but incomplete. God is eternal. Good is not just the absence of evil. . . that is a finite definition, but evil is not eternal . . . is it? That goodness of God is also related within Himself and not dependent on creation to be actualized. It is not dependent on evil to exist.
I Am that I Am. . . . .many of the attributes of God have relatedness. . . . God delights within Himself and loves within Himself. He has created us out of that overflowing abundance of love to partake in it. To worship and be fulfilled in delighting in God.
Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name;
worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness.
God gives all things, but needs nothing from us. . . .He offers us the greatest gift. . . Himself
From John Piper. . . Desiring God.
"Since the Son is the image of God and the reflection of God and the stamp of God and the form of God, equal with God, and indeed IS God, therefore God's delight in the Son is delight in himself. Therefore the original, the primal, the deepest, the foundational joy of God is the joy he has in his own perfections as he sees them reflected in his Son. He loves the Son and delights in the Son and takes pleasure in the Son because the Son is God himself.
At first this sounds like vanity, and has the feel of conceitedness and smugness and selfishness about it, because that is what it would mean if any of us found our first and deepest joy by looking at ourselves in the mirror. We would be vain and conceited and smug and selfish.
But why? Because we were created for something infinitely better and nobler and greater and deeper than self-contemplation. What? The contemplation and enjoyment of God! Anything less than this would be idolatry. God is the most glorious of all beings. Not to love him and delight in him is a great insult to his worth.
But the same is true for God. How shall God not insult what is infinitely beautiful and glorious? How shall God not commit idolatry? There is only one possible answer: God must love and delight in his own beauty and perfection above all things. For us to do this in front of the mirror is the essence of vanity; for God to do it in front of his Son is the essence of righteousness.
Isn't the essence of righteousness to be moved by perfect delight in what is perfectly glorious? And isn't the opposite of righteousness when we set our highest affections on the things of little or no worth?
And so the righteousness of God is the infinite zeal and joy and pleasure that he has in his own worth and glory. And if he were to ever act contrary to this eternal passion for his own perfections, he would be unrighteous; he would be an idolater.
Herein lies the greatest obstacle to our salvation: for how shall such a righteous God ever set his affection on sinners like us? But herein lies also the very foundation of our salvation, for it is precisely the infinite regard that the Father has for the Son which makes it possible for me, a wicked sinner, to be loved and accepted in the Son, because in his death he restored all the insult and injury that I had done to the Father's glory through my sin.
. . . . . . . .
God is the most excellent and worthy of all beings. Why? Because he has loved his Son, the image of his own glory, with infinite and perfect energy from all eternity. How glorious and happy have been the Father and the Son and the Spirit of love flowing between them from all eternity!"
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soul searcher
Great post, geisha.
Not to hijack Roy's thread or anything but you said,
"Is God really dependent on His creation . . . . any of His creation to actualize His love? That would make the creation just as important as God. . . . wouldn't it? He would be incomplete without it.
God is anything but incomplete. God is eternal."
I agree with what you said there. And since God is eternal and we (the earth) are not, I have to believe that we (the earth's inhabitants) are not the only sentient beings He has ever created. After all, he created the universe (Genesis 1:16) and it's a very big universe and it's been around a long time and it will be around long after the earth is gone.
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year2027
God first
thanks geisha779
my friend
what God is hate because when one loves they control their actions
i blessed to have your reply
that why I tried to answer
the other side of God the serpent
does it have to go anywhere
the devil makes things happen
with out the devil there no love
by our hate we love
hate builds love
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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year2027
God first
thanks soul searcher
how can God not be dependent on His creation
the Serpent makes God real and God makes the Serpent real
the two must be in harmony with each other
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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geisha779
Scripture does speak about other created beings. . . . heavenly hosts. . . . but, like CS Lewis, I wouldn't be surprised by anything else out there. . . . you do know scripture speaks about a new earth or one not cursed by sin? Part of the hope. :) http://www.gotquesti...vens-earth.html
God offers eternity to delight in Him.
Sorry to Roy. . . . I don't want to takeover his thread either. . . . I have a way of doing that!
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year2027
God first
thanks geisha779
it ok my friend I enjoy hearing you thinking things out
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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