You make a good observation, and in my view, it aptly addresses part of the overall setup of the Way, with the Way Corps in particular. I was in that program 1971-73. VPW used to tell us to counter any complaints from our parents about the intensity of our training and limitations on visits home by likening our isolation to that of boot camp for the military...we were to ask our parents what was the difference? Would they complain if we couldn't come home for family events while in training in the Marines or Navy or any other branch of the military? No, was the assumed answer. VPW gave us further info to try and use to intimidate our parents - that they should be happy we were in training to serve God and his people (of course VP was just using us to further his cause), and that is a much more important mission than any earthly cause like serving our country; missing family events like weddings, etc. shouldn't bother our folks!
I have to tell you I never repeated that cr*p to my father. It just wasn’t my style. And I got away with going to my father's wedding, too, because D*l D*ncan, my Corps coordinator, gave me permission to fly up to New England for that event. I never asked VP directly for permission, only D*l. But when VP found out I was away for the wedding, D*l got in trouble and took the heat for it. I was so thankful for D*l’s stepping in; he had known it was important for me to be there for my dad since my mother had died three years earlier and my father had found happiness that I needed to share in, too.
Although there are many incidents when D*l and other Corps coordinators made screwed up decisions for people’s lives, for me this is a good one to be remembered...
I was reading some articles and I ran across these statements that just pulled me up short.
"When a man joins the military, the first thing they do is strip away his individuality. He is now the member of a company or a battalion. He is no longer an individual. When you join the army, you essentially sign away your right to decide what you want to do with your life and your time. The military is filled with individuals, but they can never be individualistic. That is the first thing that a man is broken of when he joins the army."
Does this ring a bell? Anyone?
Whoever made that comment made two mistakes - that is if they are talking about the US military.
a) if "he is no longer an individual" yet later "The military is filled with individuals, but..." - well that is a contradiction
b) The US military does indeed strip you down and rebuild you...but the US military most highly values its troops being individualistic - within the mission boundaries.
However if you to make that comment about of a number of other countries' militaries I would agree. I most certainly agree that it would apply to the TWI "lifestyle" indoctrination.
Yes, newlife, I have vivid memories of all that stuff and, in fact, still carry some of it, which pizzes me off some times. Last night I was fixing my fave cup of tea and it occured to me that I didn't even drink the kinds of tea I liked while in TWI. Whatever some leadership person said was the best kind, we made our best kind; that's some silly shi+ if ya ask me and ya did.
The first time I wasted two days in a row lounging around reading some "devilish" books and leaving all the chores just because I wanted a couple of mental health days, it felt very strange and like I would probably get busted.
Most of the time I think I'm past things like this and then some reminder smacks me in the heart. The first time both my parents and my step dad all pulled into my driveway at the same time scared hell outa me. It was a total fluke; they just all happened to be driving in the same area and one saw the other pull in and so forth; nothing to do with coming to confront me about nuttin honey. But the emotions if brought were a huge wake up call to me that I still carry this crap.
They stole many important things from us, didn't they? Some stuff can not be recovered and no one can make restitution for them; we just have to figure out where we can live with it and keep going.........sigh.
As a former U.S. Marine I now find the old TWI comparison w/ the Marines to be highly objectionable.
The Marines are a legitimate organization have a well worn path (consistent throughout world history) of being a military force to serve and protect it's country.
Then TWI comes along and cons people (including me) into the comparison between itself and the Marines.
The Marines I recall were made up of unique and strong individualistic individuals who needed to be strong people to maintain themselves under the duress of a lifestyle that was extremely challenging. And while within our very own U.S. there are many people who view the military as a place where indiviualism is discouraged I recall it as a place where idividualism thrived.
And as far as military justice goes, anybody who sexually abused women and beat down idividualistic individuals as blatantly as Wierwille did would have suffered one of several possible fates at the hand of military justice IMO; including dishonerable discharge with resultant prison time, and more unofficial and possibly more permanent end (especially if his true animalistic nature came out w/in a combat situation).
I can attest to this happening when I look back on my involvement with the ministry. I remember the first time I actually lived with people and I wanted to go to a movie but was told I could not go unless everyone in the house went. That made me feel like something was amiss. Yet, I had just learned that no one could do it if we all didn't do it....
In one of my previous posts, i told how I was up for a great job on the ww field but I lost the opportunity when I brought my entire felloe=wship with me to the second interview at the advice of the LCoord. Their "believing" was supposd to help me. It made me look ridiculous. Mickey D's and other min wage jobs for me after that.
I remember acting like I enjoyed activities, books and movies touted by leadership. Thinking their personal preferences were holier than mine. I also parrotted their opinions. I got to a place where I assumed if I personally liked something, it must be wrong. One night, there was a meeting I really didn't want to go to. I just wanted time to relax and read a fiction book.
This one guy came to check on me (WYGB) so I jumped in bed, hiding the book under my pillow. I must have given it away some how because at one point he put his hand under my pillow and pulled the book out. Of course, I was confronted on wasting my mind on "worldly material" and I should have pushed myself to be at the meeting even if I was sick. (I never admitted I wasn't sick.) After that, he made it his mission to pick me up for these tedious meetings where we listened to the most boring teaching tapes known to mankind. I once pretended to have to work and he showed up to check on me.
I did see the blatant contradictions. One person would be accused of allowing the adversary into their life while another was considered under attack of the adversary for the very same thing.
Their rules, opinions and standards were arbitrary, capricious and nonnegotiable. I stopped trying to figure out the contridictions and pushed to find at best, weak ways to defend them.
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penworks
You make a good observation, and in my view, it aptly addresses part of the overall setup of the Way, with the Way Corps in particular. I was in that program 1971-73. VPW used to tell us to counter any complaints from our parents about the intensity of our training and limitations on visits home by likening our isolation to that of boot camp for the military...we were to ask our parents what was the difference? Would they complain if we couldn't come home for family events while in training in the Marines or Navy or any other branch of the military? No, was the assumed answer. VPW gave us further info to try and use to intimidate our parents - that they should be happy we were in training to serve God and his people (of course VP was just using us to further his cause), and that is a much more important mission than any earthly cause like serving our country; missing family events like weddings, etc. shouldn't bother our folks!
I have to tell you I never repeated that cr*p to my father. It just wasn’t my style. And I got away with going to my father's wedding, too, because D*l D*ncan, my Corps coordinator, gave me permission to fly up to New England for that event. I never asked VP directly for permission, only D*l. But when VP found out I was away for the wedding, D*l got in trouble and took the heat for it. I was so thankful for D*l’s stepping in; he had known it was important for me to be there for my dad since my mother had died three years earlier and my father had found happiness that I needed to share in, too.
Although there are many incidents when D*l and other Corps coordinators made screwed up decisions for people’s lives, for me this is a good one to be remembered...
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waysider
Pretty much describes it for me, too.
('ceptin' that there part 'bout bein' a English major.)
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excathedra
i definitely remember all that horsesheet
if i wanted to go into the army, i would have
makes me sick
ps. my greatest lost in the way was me and that is who i was trying to find :)
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RumRunner
Whoever made that comment made two mistakes - that is if they are talking about the US military.
a) if "he is no longer an individual" yet later "The military is filled with individuals, but..." - well that is a contradiction
b) The US military does indeed strip you down and rebuild you...but the US military most highly values its troops being individualistic - within the mission boundaries.
However if you to make that comment about of a number of other countries' militaries I would agree. I most certainly agree that it would apply to the TWI "lifestyle" indoctrination.
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Shellon
Yes, newlife, I have vivid memories of all that stuff and, in fact, still carry some of it, which pizzes me off some times. Last night I was fixing my fave cup of tea and it occured to me that I didn't even drink the kinds of tea I liked while in TWI. Whatever some leadership person said was the best kind, we made our best kind; that's some silly shi+ if ya ask me and ya did.
The first time I wasted two days in a row lounging around reading some "devilish" books and leaving all the chores just because I wanted a couple of mental health days, it felt very strange and like I would probably get busted.
Most of the time I think I'm past things like this and then some reminder smacks me in the heart. The first time both my parents and my step dad all pulled into my driveway at the same time scared hell outa me. It was a total fluke; they just all happened to be driving in the same area and one saw the other pull in and so forth; nothing to do with coming to confront me about nuttin honey. But the emotions if brought were a huge wake up call to me that I still carry this crap.
They stole many important things from us, didn't they? Some stuff can not be recovered and no one can make restitution for them; we just have to figure out where we can live with it and keep going.........sigh.
http://outofmymouthontothepage.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-i-were-you.html
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chockfull
The more people think for themselves, the more trouble they are going to be in with TWI.
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cheranne
I loved the Army! Army Strong is what they are training you to be. But,in TWI it was all about TWI
and nothing else!
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JeffSjo
As a former U.S. Marine I now find the old TWI comparison w/ the Marines to be highly objectionable.
The Marines are a legitimate organization have a well worn path (consistent throughout world history) of being a military force to serve and protect it's country.
Then TWI comes along and cons people (including me) into the comparison between itself and the Marines.
The Marines I recall were made up of unique and strong individualistic individuals who needed to be strong people to maintain themselves under the duress of a lifestyle that was extremely challenging. And while within our very own U.S. there are many people who view the military as a place where indiviualism is discouraged I recall it as a place where idividualism thrived.
And as far as military justice goes, anybody who sexually abused women and beat down idividualistic individuals as blatantly as Wierwille did would have suffered one of several possible fates at the hand of military justice IMO; including dishonerable discharge with resultant prison time, and more unofficial and possibly more permanent end (especially if his true animalistic nature came out w/in a combat situation).
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crystalclearblue
In one of my previous posts, i told how I was up for a great job on the ww field but I lost the opportunity when I brought my entire felloe=wship with me to the second interview at the advice of the LCoord. Their "believing" was supposd to help me. It made me look ridiculous. Mickey D's and other min wage jobs for me after that.
I remember acting like I enjoyed activities, books and movies touted by leadership. Thinking their personal preferences were holier than mine. I also parrotted their opinions. I got to a place where I assumed if I personally liked something, it must be wrong. One night, there was a meeting I really didn't want to go to. I just wanted time to relax and read a fiction book.
This one guy came to check on me (WYGB) so I jumped in bed, hiding the book under my pillow. I must have given it away some how because at one point he put his hand under my pillow and pulled the book out. Of course, I was confronted on wasting my mind on "worldly material" and I should have pushed myself to be at the meeting even if I was sick. (I never admitted I wasn't sick.) After that, he made it his mission to pick me up for these tedious meetings where we listened to the most boring teaching tapes known to mankind. I once pretended to have to work and he showed up to check on me.
I did see the blatant contradictions. One person would be accused of allowing the adversary into their life while another was considered under attack of the adversary for the very same thing.
Their rules, opinions and standards were arbitrary, capricious and nonnegotiable. I stopped trying to figure out the contridictions and pushed to find at best, weak ways to defend them.
SOOOOOOOOOOOO glad those days are over for me.
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