This topic reminds me of something by Shakespeare: Much Ado About NOTHING!
There is a lot going on here, but as far as I’m concerned, its all for NOUGHT. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but nought sounds a lot like naughty, so (with the same logic used when transliterating zera to zero), I would have to say it's on the negative side!
Oops! My Bad! If it is truly nothing, it cannot be considered "less than nothing'", so it’s really not on the negative side. It’s neither positive nor negative. It’s kinda like in “limbo”. HEY! That reminds me of LIMBerger cheese. Maybe those two terms are somehow related! :blink:
If I were to rate this topic on a scale of one to ten, I’m afraid that would be impossible: I would instead give it a ZERO.
Will this topic ever make it to the “hot topic list”? I doubt that, for it is COLD. In fact I believe if you could measure it’s temperature, it would be -273.15 degrees Celcius or 0-K, which is ABSOLUTE ZERO. :P
Nevertheless, I do consider it very entertaining indeed! In fact, there are enough posts about it here to conclude that a great many people are “putting up” with this NO-tion. Do you suppose that could be defined as zero tolerance?
And as long as we doing a lot of guesswork here, I have a few more definitions:
Sub Zero: A submarine which disappears in the Bermuda Triangle.
Ground Zero: The temperature of dirt in winter time.
Zero Gravity: What was written on the subject before Newton’s discovery.
Zero Punctuation: A term describing “uncials” and “cursives”.
Coke Zero: The bottle’s contents after you drink all the coke.
NOTE: If God is zero and God is infinite, then I suppose the bottle still somehow contains an "infinite supply of coke" – sort of like the "cruse of oil" which didn’t run out!
Now a bit more on Hebrew and Greek:
In Hebrew "nothing" is lo. This makes perfect sense to me because it is not high, and nothing is (of course) much "lo-er" than that!
The Greek word for "length" is pote. Looks to me like we might derive our English word "pot" from this. (However, I suspect I might be mistaken because pots, being round, aren’t described as having "length", as are pans.)
The Hebrew word for "fowl" is owph. Just like changing the "a" in zera to an "o", making zero, I choose to change the "ph" in owph to an "l". Now we have owl, which is a type of "fowl" – and OUALA! - it fits just like a foot in a sock.
I am thankful to DrWearWord for starting this topic. By his example of making zera to zero, I have begun to discover a whole lot more about Greek and Hebrew (as you have just seen!). :)
I give him the credit for teaching us all quite a lot about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
I had my doubts as to whether or not I might learn anything provocative by "venturing into" this topic in the first place. For me, it rather puts a “new twist” into the old addage, "Nothing ventured – NOTHING GAINED"!
SPEC
:)
PS: And if I were you, I wouldn't be concerned about anybody plagiarizing your idea, DrWearWord - After all, you said:
This post had me ROFLOL.
Thanks for your colorless take on zero. (just joking, hehe)
Yes God is infinite and what a perfect place for infinity to abode but within the most humble of places. (where we least expect)
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, NUMBERS...
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Peace with zero. :)
Such contortions of logic are amazing. ten apples given to ten people equally each one gets one. ten apples given to no people or zero people. now how many apples do each of the non-existent people have??? zero by definition means nothing, zilch,nada,empty,the opposite of something.I have 10 chairs and 0 rooms how many chairs goes in each room? what rooms??????!!!! there aren't any!!!!!!
10 divided by 1 is 10 and if 10 divided by 0 is ten; then 0 is the same as one.
If you have ten apples to give to zero people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
If you have zero apples to give to ten people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
You are not looking at the conclusion you are getting mired in the process keep your eye on the apple William Tell :)
Thanks for your colorless take on zero. (just joking, hehe)
Yes God is infinite and what a perfect place for infinity to abode but within the most humble of places. (where we least expect)
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, NUMBERS...
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Peace with zero. :)
If you have ten apples to give to zero people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
My answer is that you have the ten apples left because you gave none away.
If you have zero apples to give to ten people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
My answer is that you had no apples to start with, so all ZERO of them are left.
You are not looking at the conclusion you are getting mired in the process keep your eye on the apple William Tell :)
What a refreshing response to my "silly post", DrWearWord! I believe most people would have taken it as ridicule or sarcasm. In a strange sort of way, that's exactly what it was; however, I did mean it "all in fun" - AND YOU ACTUALLY PICKED UP ON THAT! I am truly impressed!
My last name is Elliott. In school the kids tried to be "cute" and call me Idiot (LOL), but I knew I was intelligent, so I just laughed along with them. They got no fight out of me! And I got no fight out of you either. We are a lot alike, sir!
So, your "reward" is that I will now act in a more serious manner...
I think quite a bit of your "logic" in this post has some merit. Abstract as it is, the concept of ZERO as the "beginning of creation" is interesting to me.
I saw an article by Bernard Haisch, staff physicist at the Lockheed Martin Solar & Astrophysics Laboratory in Palo Alto, California. He is a scientific editor of The Astrophysical Journal and editor-in-chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.
You may be VERY INTERESTED in this article. Here is the link: Zero-Point Field
He supposes that the "light" in Genesis 1 on the first day may have some connection to the "Zero-Point Field", for short. (actually, it is the "electromagnetic zero-point field of the quantum vacuum".)
Although that one verse is the only Bible reference in his relatively short article, I believe he actually may have "hit on something".
For those of you who are aware of the "gap theory", this might be interesting. (The "gap theory", as it is called, refers to the lapse of time between the first two verses of the Bible - between the crreation of the first earth and its subsequent "destruction", when it became "without form and void".)
Some who adhere to this explanation (supposedly caused by a "war among the angels in heaven") also say that this was so devastating that it not only messed up the earth, but all of creation (the entire universe) was out of order as well!
Nothing could work - gravity, centrifugal force, inertia, acceleration, electromagnetism - none of the laws of physics as we know them could function, for everthing was in chaos!
To put it back into order, God first said, "Let there be LIGHT". If Dr. Haisch's supposition is correct, this would make perfect sense, since the "zero-point field" (as a sort of "grand foundation" for the universe) would be the first thing God would have to reinstitute in order for everthing else to be built upon it, so the universe could again function the way it was designed to be.
I suppose it is time to apologize to WordWolf. I would rather have WW as a friend. I highly respect his knowledge of the word and never meant to come off in this post as arrogant or conceited though my words may have seemed that way.
WordWold I am sorry that I have seemed unfriendly it is not my intention. You are warmly welcome here. It is agreeable to disagree, many theologians disagree with much of Hislop's Babylon book yet it is still uncannily hailed as a must read for Christians. The book literally set me free over 20 years ago.
I was wondering which religion to turn to and once I realized that most if not all pagan religions were one system it made my search for truth exponentially much more simplified. This is why I still believe in the cross links of words and culture between religions as the Babylonians, Egyptians, the Norse and Celtic and even the early religions of the continent of America and Asia and India also. The premise of Hislop's theory is proved when one simply compares the Greek and Roman Pantheon.
This may also explain why Jesus also spoke in orientalisms.
Hislop's premise that the Roman catholic church is styled after Babylonian religion is right on the mark also, but Hislop carries his conclusions too far as calling the Roman catholic church "the mother of harlots" the "image of the beast" and so on. Hislop draws many erroneous conclusions as to the nature of the Babylonian system considering that the trinity is eluded to in the bible. Is man God? No, but can some humans achieve a state similar to zero? Perhaps. Only God can judge these systems and what is at the heart of them.
I just think that too many people over the centuries have been persecuted just because they believe Adam and Eve had navels and such that it is time to put away the pitchforks and rakes and learn to get along in spite of our differences. I prefer uncertainly over KNOWING.
The kinds of people who think they know are numbered along with Hitler and other murderous despots treacherous evil rulers of this world.
So my only attempt her has been o take the best of Hislop’s book and leave behind the rest.
There is too much good in that book to simply sweep it under the rug because it conations a few erroneous and hateful conclusions.
Besides, if the Roman catholic church and even the old testament (Judaism) is styled after Babylonian religion. Why not call a spade a spade? The Kabala and many other mystical Jewish writings seem, to point that way…
This leads to another point I have wanted to make.
If we ignore Hislop’s writing then we miss a great chance at understanding what “the way” really is.
Matthew 13:27 KJV
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Matthew 13:30 KJV
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Zeroes (the seeds) appears in many forms and we must gather them together to see a clear picture of what is nourishing for the mind and soul. This means even looking for the way within paganism and the roman catholic church and many other religions and of only the written word of God. This is why God wrote the word in our hearts and gave us discerning of spirits. This is why we are sent back to this world and not just taken directly to heaven. We are to search among the tares for zeroes and store them in the barn..
For when we look at the trinity it seems pagan, but then we see that gentiles are follow heirs to the promise also. So “the truth” is not black and white but perhaps gray, as gray is the zero point between the extremes.
I hear people say well that person is “on fire for the word” well I would rather be lukewarm rather than too hot or cold to people and maybe God might spit me out but I will have saved my soul from certainty in an uncertain world. In my uncertainty I feel I will be closer to zero. People may not prefer room temperature water but it is known by runners that lukewarm water has a better absorption into cells.
This is why I believe in separation of church and state. Too many religionists have been too certain over the years and have forgotten liberty and not been “kind Samaritans“. Out of their blind certainty people have suffered worse fates than had they been left to live to a different drummer.
From Wikipedia:
The Samaritans (Hebrew: שומרונים Shomronim, Arabic: السامريون as-Saamariyun) are an ethnoreligious group of the Levant. Religiously, they are the adherents to Samaritanism, a parallel but separate religion to Judaism or any of its historical forms. Based on the Samaritan Torah, Samaritans claim their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites prior to the Babylonian Exile, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they assert is a related but altered and amended religion brought back by the exiled returnees.
Comment: What is the truth? Only by living in tolerance and in good heart open minded in the age of reason above religion will God show us the way to the perfect seeds of his great and glorious wisdom.
receive retain reason then release
It seems I have been babbling on...I am not sure what I am saying here. Sometime my brain is tired and well, this is what you get... :)
I love you Roy, I was harsh on you (perhaps far too harsh) I need to read all of your links dear friend, thus you have given me endless study before I can comment intelligently on that particular post. You may do better to talk to me on the subject of zero out of your own logic rather than sending me to links. I think your own personal insight is much better than that of others. For example your brilliant words of being born again as being zero that was "radically new" and perhaps one of the highest points of this whole discussion and, all your own thought. Something like that I can respond to more readily.
I also still need to respond to SPECTRUM49’s post where I am not a physicist I come off that way sometimes. I have read many articles on physics but often I find myself swimming in them rather than really understanding. Yet I am better at metaphysics and I do have an interest and an intense zeal for physics and science in general. It will take me a bit of time to respond to that post too. I am glad Spectrum and I have become friends now. I plan to respond to both your post and spectrum49's post soon. As for the gap theory I have believed in the gap theory for many years but this zero thing has given me a bit of pause lately to rethink the whole matter.
Consequently, I go blank at the event horizon, (lol) perhaps this is why zero seems to always come to mind at such times.
And as for my argument of dividing by zero I am sure you are all right and I am wrong on that one. But my mind is stubborn and sometimes refuses to let go of its idiosyncrasies. Something bothers me about dividing ten apples by zero and getting nothing... as if the apples vanish. If an accountant did that with my money (if I had money) they would be audited. :)
I was thinking today it is strange to think that we were probably once all under the big top together and only now are we really becoming acquainted.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
It is interesting to note that the wheel of the flag of India is circular also as a seed or as zero.
Though we all came out of Africa it is widely believed that Asians and European descended from India by way of Indians that came from Africa. DNA also attests to this.
Buddha was the first to use the wheel as a metaphysical concept of action. That Buddha sitting under the Bodhi-Tree realized he needed to stop sitting and contemplating and to get up and mobilize his ministry into action.
Thus we can surmise from this that God as zero and the seed symbolizing enlightenment is action also.
This can be seen as the wheel of the earth always turning and traveling around the sun. The sun is always in motion as it is in a constant state of flaring its light and the supplier, radiating enormous energy to feed the solar system.
Were the physical world static then life could not have arisen, as the moon also encircles the earth we can clearly see that life requires motion and mobility.
The spokes of the wheel move in stages and emanating from the center of the wheel is the axle of creation. Zero the source of all life, that life is alive and animated by our connection to zero.
Enlightenment as new birth come first and then action. Sedentary thought over time stagnates without action.
We travel back to zero only to travel out again as the reincarnation of zero.
The angel Iaoel came to me in a vision and said I must see what is unseen. I was flown to a precipice high above a canyon. I was perched there with another soul, one who thirsts but does not hunger. They spoke to me and said, faith is desire to overcome. I looked over the canyon and was taken by fear, for I stood atop a pillar of stone with seemingly no way over the canyon to the surface.
It suddenly occurred to me that if I hugged the stone pillar I could slide myself down into the canyon. It was nearly 150 feet till I reached the canyon floor.
Once there I ran to the sandy edge of the canyon and began to climb up the steep incline till I reached nearly the surface. There was a thick overgrowth of bushes that hung over the canyon edge. I jumped and hung there halfway in and out of the canyon. My feet dangled down below me and my hands were grasping at the bushes. I found they were dry and when I grabbed them to pull myself out of the canyon they gave way and were of no use.
I turned my head and noticed another had found their way to the surface ahead of me and looking back I saw still perched above the pillar of stone was the person who thirsted but did not hunger.
Suddenly I awoke yet I could still feel myself struggling inside to get out of the canyon.
The canyon represents zero and our struggle to become one.
I am clipping up or down or side ways but overtime i get an inch i fall back-forward- sideways more i do know which to climb because i lost almost without an ideal.
What a refreshing response to my "silly post", DrWearWord! I believe most people would have taken it as ridicule or sarcasm. In a strange sort of way, that's exactly what it was; however, I did mean it "all in fun" - AND YOU ACTUALLY PICKED UP ON THAT! I am truly impressed!
My last name is Elliott. In school the kids tried to be "cute" and call me Idiot (LOL), but I knew I was intelligent, so I just laughed along with them. They got no fight out of me! And I got no fight out of you either. We are a lot alike, sir!
So, your "reward" is that I will now act in a more serious manner...
I think quite a bit of your "logic" in this post has some merit. Abstract as it is, the concept of ZERO as the "beginning of creation" is interesting to me.
I saw an article by Bernard Haisch, staff physicist at the Lockheed Martin Solar & Astrophysics Laboratory in Palo Alto, California. He is a scientific editor of The Astrophysical Journal and editor-in-chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.
You may be VERY INTERESTED in this article. Here is the link: Zero-Point Field
He supposes that the "light" in Genesis 1 on the first day may have some connection to the "Zero-Point Field", for short. (actually, it is the "electromagnetic zero-point field of the quantum vacuum".)
Although that one verse is the only Bible reference in his relatively short article, I believe he actually may have "hit on something".
For those of you who are aware of the "gap theory", this might be interesting. (The "gap theory", as it is called, refers to the lapse of time between the first two verses of the Bible - between the crreation of the first earth and its subsequent "destruction", when it became "without form and void".)
Some who adhere to this explanation (supposedly caused by a "war among the angels in heaven") also say that this was so devastating that it not only messed up the earth, but all of creation (the entire universe) was out of order as well!
Nothing could work - gravity, centrifugal force, inertia, acceleration, electromagnetism - none of the laws of physics as we know them could function, for everthing was in chaos!
To put it back into order, God first said, "Let there be LIGHT". If Dr. Haisch's supposition is correct, this would make perfect sense, since the "zero-point field" (as a sort of "grand foundation" for the universe) would be the first thing God would have to reinstitute in order for everthing else to be built upon it, so the universe could again function the way it was designed to be.
Is that a little better, DrWearWord, my friend?
SPEC
:)
Hey SPECTRUM
I read and studied Dr. Haisch's supposition and it seem to me that even deeper than the light section prior to creation of the physical universe is an invisible abyss cone shaped that stretches down to a zero point. Out of the cone shaped abyss seeps the light field.
I have thought on this for a few days.
The abyss would be like a fall of energy from heaven. So zero may descend even deeper than the light field.
The light field is a result of the darkness of the deep abyss being opened up.
Hope that makes sense :)
I wanted to make a photoshop diagram but I have been busy working on a song I just entered into a contest in Australia. The song is free to listen to online it only costs if people want to download it.
If anyone is interested please sign up, add yourself as a fan and vote. If you have any questions private message me. (sorry this is off topic peeps)
Also
Roy, Your links were very interesting I studied them too, I would like to get my hands on the book mentioned in one of the links it sounds very interesting. More on that in a bit. Thanks!
I remember being taught years ago in the way that it was thought foolishness by the wise to think that we could pray to an invisible God and believe for something concrete and tangible, but this was the wisdom of God. For man's wisdom is foolishness to God's way of thinking.
1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
I read and studied Dr. Haisch's supposition and it seem to me that even deeper than the light section prior to creation of the physical universe is an invisible abyss cone shaped that stretches down to a zero point. Out of the cone shaped abyss seeps the light field.
I have thought on this for a few days.
The abyss would be like a fall of energy from heaven. So zero may descend even deeper than the light field.
The light field is a result of the darkness of the deep abyss being opened up.
Hope that makes sense :)
It makes perfect sense to me, DrWearWord! Let me elaborate a bit...
First of all, I am certainly no scientist, but I have always been interested in that field. I am no math whiz either. (Although, in college I nearly ACED the entire course in "Analytical Geometry and Calculus", the only 5-credit course offered at the school. I got 100's on each weekly quiz, a 98 on the midterm and ACED the final exam.)
Sorry if that's sounds a bit "haughty"...it's been a long time since then! But I tell you what: If you ever care to examine the MATH behind Dr Haisch's supposition, it would make your head swim! It all looks like hieroglyphics to me!
Now, back to "reality", if there really is such a thing!...
I have found that things are really MUCH DEEPER than all this, as you also had said! I am a firm believer in the fact that ALL PHYSICAL THINGS have something "spiritual" behind them. Jesus Christ spoke in parables, showing an "interconnection" between the physical and spiritual realms. The Bible also reveals such a thing in Romans:
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him [spiritual realities] from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
That verse reveals that even things concerning God's "eternal power" and "Godhead" may be understood by looking "behind" the things that are made. Genesis chapter one shows (in "six days") a vast array of that which was made, so you may consider that as a wonderful source of information to LOOK BEHIND and discover some of the most amazing things in the entire universe!
Yet, for all this, I say: Even if Dr Haisch and his collaborators are indeed correct about the "light" in Genesis 1 on the first day being connected to their "zero-point field", even that in itself is yet but another PHYSICAL THING with a name attatched to it. And guess what? Behind that is something MORE...and behind that, EVEN MORE - and more, and more, even on to "infinity" - whatever that term truly means!
Yes, DrWearWord, we are both in total agreement that "zero may descend even deeper than the light field", as you put it!
Man, in his "feeble attempt" to discover all the secrets of the universe only finds a mere "drop in the ocean" with every new advance in technology. But isn't that what makes life so fun? The thrill of exploration and discovery has kept man searching for "answers" since the very dawn of civilization.
It sort of reminds me of the lyrics in a song by the Moody Blues (in reference to a verse in Revelation, no doubt):
"Knights in white satin, never reaching the end, Letters I've written, never meaning to send.
Beauty I've always missed, with these eyes before. Just what the truth is, I can't say anymore"...
Well, I can't say much more right now, either - this area is just too darn vast!
I will be listening to your song soon, DrWearWord. And speaking of that, I will now also "plug" my stuff too...
A few here at Greasespot are aware of the fact that I have recently written my first book. I believe I will entitle it, "Genesis One: God's Table of Contents". I hope it will be interesting reading to many.
It is in the "conceptual editing phase" of publication at the moment. (lot's of work to be done yet) Advanced copies should be available around August, and the official "worldwide release" in November. Please wish me "luck".
SPEC
:)
PS: After I posted this, I noticed you had commented again:
I remember being taught years ago in the way that it was thought foolishness by the wise to think that we could pray to an invisible God and believe for something concrete and tangible, but this was the wisdom of God. For man's wisdom is foolishness to God's way of thinking.
1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
I was once again visited by the angel Iaoel to establish zero in my thoughts and heart. I stood on a great plane where the was a small ranch behind me. I was outside and there was one who hungered but did not thirst accompanying me.
The wind began to blow and the clouds started to move exceedingly fast overhead. The clouds were low and and light with huge dark patches. At first the clouds moved in rapidly from the distance and breezed overhead with an ominous pattern. They started to move with such a virulent speed I tried to race towards the ranch house. The wind pulled at me to slow my speed. Then a large patch of clouds became animated as if they were alive! I turned to look at the one who hungered but did not thirst and the wind engulfed their attempt to run from the face of its pull. The clouds came down from the heavens and held this person against their will and attempt to retreat, all while the clouds still raced over head.
I awoke from this vision knowing it was not a mere dream but a sign from above. That what seems as lifeless and empty as zero has the power to hold us, engulf us and even sustain us in spite of its seemingly vacant nature.
That one is never to underestimate the power of zero for zero is a living God.
Hebrews 12:1 KJV
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Comment: I've looked at zero from both sides now. :)
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DrWearWord
The Cult Of Zero (An alternative explanation of existence.) This is my own attempt to explain existence and give of myself to the powers that be. Why a cult? Well all systems of faith start out as re
DrWearWord
What are you all talking about? :) When one speaks in tongues privately there is no interpreter... While we were being instructed in PFAL to speak in tongues we all just spoke out loud together. If
DrWearWord
Carte blanche
Tzaia
I think the notion that god is logical is a premise.
It might be a correct premise, but it also might not.
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DrWearWord
Does God reason? :)
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DrWearWord
This post had me ROFLOL.
Thanks for your colorless take on zero. (just joking, hehe)
Yes God is infinite and what a perfect place for infinity to abode but within the most humble of places. (where we least expect)
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, NUMBERS...
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Peace with zero. :)
If you have ten apples to give to zero people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
If you have zero apples to give to ten people how many apples do you have left? Zero or ten?
You are not looking at the conclusion you are getting mired in the process keep your eye on the apple William Tell :)
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spectrum49
What a refreshing response to my "silly post", DrWearWord! I believe most people would have taken it as ridicule or sarcasm. In a strange sort of way, that's exactly what it was; however, I did mean it "all in fun" - AND YOU ACTUALLY PICKED UP ON THAT! I am truly impressed!
My last name is Elliott. In school the kids tried to be "cute" and call me Idiot (LOL), but I knew I was intelligent, so I just laughed along with them. They got no fight out of me! And I got no fight out of you either. We are a lot alike, sir!
So, your "reward" is that I will now act in a more serious manner...
I think quite a bit of your "logic" in this post has some merit. Abstract as it is, the concept of ZERO as the "beginning of creation" is interesting to me.
I saw an article by Bernard Haisch, staff physicist at the Lockheed Martin Solar & Astrophysics Laboratory in Palo Alto, California. He is a scientific editor of The Astrophysical Journal and editor-in-chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.
You may be VERY INTERESTED in this article. Here is the link: Zero-Point Field
He supposes that the "light" in Genesis 1 on the first day may have some connection to the "Zero-Point Field", for short. (actually, it is the "electromagnetic zero-point field of the quantum vacuum".)
Although that one verse is the only Bible reference in his relatively short article, I believe he actually may have "hit on something".
For those of you who are aware of the "gap theory", this might be interesting. (The "gap theory", as it is called, refers to the lapse of time between the first two verses of the Bible - between the crreation of the first earth and its subsequent "destruction", when it became "without form and void".)
Some who adhere to this explanation (supposedly caused by a "war among the angels in heaven") also say that this was so devastating that it not only messed up the earth, but all of creation (the entire universe) was out of order as well!
Nothing could work - gravity, centrifugal force, inertia, acceleration, electromagnetism - none of the laws of physics as we know them could function, for everthing was in chaos!
To put it back into order, God first said, "Let there be LIGHT". If Dr. Haisch's supposition is correct, this would make perfect sense, since the "zero-point field" (as a sort of "grand foundation" for the universe) would be the first thing God would have to reinstitute in order for everthing else to be built upon it, so the universe could again function the way it was designed to be.
Is that a little better, DrWearWord, my friend?
SPEC
:)
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waysider
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="
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DrWearWord
Perhaps the author of those lyrics has been reading Hislop too :)
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year2027
God first
thanks DrWearWord
for nothing i see you talk to everyone but me
maybe you forgot
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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DrWearWord
I suppose it is time to apologize to WordWolf. I would rather have WW as a friend. I highly respect his knowledge of the word and never meant to come off in this post as arrogant or conceited though my words may have seemed that way.
WordWold I am sorry that I have seemed unfriendly it is not my intention. You are warmly welcome here. It is agreeable to disagree, many theologians disagree with much of Hislop's Babylon book yet it is still uncannily hailed as a must read for Christians. The book literally set me free over 20 years ago.
I was wondering which religion to turn to and once I realized that most if not all pagan religions were one system it made my search for truth exponentially much more simplified. This is why I still believe in the cross links of words and culture between religions as the Babylonians, Egyptians, the Norse and Celtic and even the early religions of the continent of America and Asia and India also. The premise of Hislop's theory is proved when one simply compares the Greek and Roman Pantheon.
This may also explain why Jesus also spoke in orientalisms.
Hislop's premise that the Roman catholic church is styled after Babylonian religion is right on the mark also, but Hislop carries his conclusions too far as calling the Roman catholic church "the mother of harlots" the "image of the beast" and so on. Hislop draws many erroneous conclusions as to the nature of the Babylonian system considering that the trinity is eluded to in the bible. Is man God? No, but can some humans achieve a state similar to zero? Perhaps. Only God can judge these systems and what is at the heart of them.
I just think that too many people over the centuries have been persecuted just because they believe Adam and Eve had navels and such that it is time to put away the pitchforks and rakes and learn to get along in spite of our differences. I prefer uncertainly over KNOWING.
The kinds of people who think they know are numbered along with Hitler and other murderous despots treacherous evil rulers of this world.
So my only attempt her has been o take the best of Hislop’s book and leave behind the rest.
There is too much good in that book to simply sweep it under the rug because it conations a few erroneous and hateful conclusions.
Besides, if the Roman catholic church and even the old testament (Judaism) is styled after Babylonian religion. Why not call a spade a spade? The Kabala and many other mystical Jewish writings seem, to point that way…
This leads to another point I have wanted to make.
If we ignore Hislop’s writing then we miss a great chance at understanding what “the way” really is.
Matthew 13:27 KJV
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Matthew 13:30 KJV
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Zeroes (the seeds) appears in many forms and we must gather them together to see a clear picture of what is nourishing for the mind and soul. This means even looking for the way within paganism and the roman catholic church and many other religions and of only the written word of God. This is why God wrote the word in our hearts and gave us discerning of spirits. This is why we are sent back to this world and not just taken directly to heaven. We are to search among the tares for zeroes and store them in the barn..
For when we look at the trinity it seems pagan, but then we see that gentiles are follow heirs to the promise also. So “the truth” is not black and white but perhaps gray, as gray is the zero point between the extremes.
I hear people say well that person is “on fire for the word” well I would rather be lukewarm rather than too hot or cold to people and maybe God might spit me out but I will have saved my soul from certainty in an uncertain world. In my uncertainty I feel I will be closer to zero. People may not prefer room temperature water but it is known by runners that lukewarm water has a better absorption into cells.
This is why I believe in separation of church and state. Too many religionists have been too certain over the years and have forgotten liberty and not been “kind Samaritans“. Out of their blind certainty people have suffered worse fates than had they been left to live to a different drummer.
From Wikipedia:
The Samaritans (Hebrew: שומרונים Shomronim, Arabic: السامريون as-Saamariyun) are an ethnoreligious group of the Levant. Religiously, they are the adherents to Samaritanism, a parallel but separate religion to Judaism or any of its historical forms. Based on the Samaritan Torah, Samaritans claim their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites prior to the Babylonian Exile, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they assert is a related but altered and amended religion brought back by the exiled returnees.
Comment: What is the truth? Only by living in tolerance and in good heart open minded in the age of reason above religion will God show us the way to the perfect seeds of his great and glorious wisdom.
receive retain reason then release
It seems I have been babbling on...I am not sure what I am saying here. Sometime my brain is tired and well, this is what you get... :)
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DrWearWord
I love you Roy, I was harsh on you (perhaps far too harsh) I need to read all of your links dear friend, thus you have given me endless study before I can comment intelligently on that particular post. You may do better to talk to me on the subject of zero out of your own logic rather than sending me to links. I think your own personal insight is much better than that of others. For example your brilliant words of being born again as being zero that was "radically new" and perhaps one of the highest points of this whole discussion and, all your own thought. Something like that I can respond to more readily.
I also still need to respond to SPECTRUM49’s post where I am not a physicist I come off that way sometimes. I have read many articles on physics but often I find myself swimming in them rather than really understanding. Yet I am better at metaphysics and I do have an interest and an intense zeal for physics and science in general. It will take me a bit of time to respond to that post too. I am glad Spectrum and I have become friends now. I plan to respond to both your post and spectrum49's post soon. As for the gap theory I have believed in the gap theory for many years but this zero thing has given me a bit of pause lately to rethink the whole matter.
Consequently, I go blank at the event horizon, (lol) perhaps this is why zero seems to always come to mind at such times.
And as for my argument of dividing by zero I am sure you are all right and I am wrong on that one. But my mind is stubborn and sometimes refuses to let go of its idiosyncrasies. Something bothers me about dividing ten apples by zero and getting nothing... as if the apples vanish. If an accountant did that with my money (if I had money) they would be audited. :)
I was thinking today it is strange to think that we were probably once all under the big top together and only now are we really becoming acquainted.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Comment: This seems to be a play on words...
That "zero is something".
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year2027
God first
thanks DrWearWord
ok I can sum it up Gap theory it takes before time as a Day O
see chart
http://year2027bibletimeline.wetpaint.com/page/No+Gap+theory
making no Gap at all
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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DrWearWord
Thanks for that fixx Waysider :)
According to the oldest myths from India, the first humans came from a golden egg laid by the king of the Gods in the churning of the cosmic ocean.
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DrWearWord
The flag of India
It is interesting to note that the wheel of the flag of India is circular also as a seed or as zero.
Though we all came out of Africa it is widely believed that Asians and European descended from India by way of Indians that came from Africa. DNA also attests to this.
Buddha was the first to use the wheel as a metaphysical concept of action. That Buddha sitting under the Bodhi-Tree realized he needed to stop sitting and contemplating and to get up and mobilize his ministry into action.
Thus we can surmise from this that God as zero and the seed symbolizing enlightenment is action also.
This can be seen as the wheel of the earth always turning and traveling around the sun. The sun is always in motion as it is in a constant state of flaring its light and the supplier, radiating enormous energy to feed the solar system.
Were the physical world static then life could not have arisen, as the moon also encircles the earth we can clearly see that life requires motion and mobility.
The spokes of the wheel move in stages and emanating from the center of the wheel is the axle of creation. Zero the source of all life, that life is alive and animated by our connection to zero.
Enlightenment as new birth come first and then action. Sedentary thought over time stagnates without action.
We travel back to zero only to travel out again as the reincarnation of zero.
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DrWearWord
The angel Iaoel came to me in a vision and said I must see what is unseen. I was flown to a precipice high above a canyon. I was perched there with another soul, one who thirsts but does not hunger. They spoke to me and said, faith is desire to overcome. I looked over the canyon and was taken by fear, for I stood atop a pillar of stone with seemingly no way over the canyon to the surface.
It suddenly occurred to me that if I hugged the stone pillar I could slide myself down into the canyon. It was nearly 150 feet till I reached the canyon floor.
Once there I ran to the sandy edge of the canyon and began to climb up the steep incline till I reached nearly the surface. There was a thick overgrowth of bushes that hung over the canyon edge. I jumped and hung there halfway in and out of the canyon. My feet dangled down below me and my hands were grasping at the bushes. I found they were dry and when I grabbed them to pull myself out of the canyon they gave way and were of no use.
I turned my head and noticed another had found their way to the surface ahead of me and looking back I saw still perched above the pillar of stone was the person who thirsted but did not hunger.
Suddenly I awoke yet I could still feel myself struggling inside to get out of the canyon.
The canyon represents zero and our struggle to become one.
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cman
no wings, still attached
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waysider
Maybe it was just some bad chicken salad.
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year2027
God first
I am clipping up or down or side ways but overtime i get an inch i fall back-forward- sideways more i do know which to climb because i lost almost without an ideal.
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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DrWearWord
Perhaps if I hadn't hungered I wouldn't have ate the chicken salad. :)
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DrWearWord
Hey SPECTRUM
I read and studied Dr. Haisch's supposition and it seem to me that even deeper than the light section prior to creation of the physical universe is an invisible abyss cone shaped that stretches down to a zero point. Out of the cone shaped abyss seeps the light field.
I have thought on this for a few days.
The abyss would be like a fall of energy from heaven. So zero may descend even deeper than the light field.
The light field is a result of the darkness of the deep abyss being opened up.
Hope that makes sense :)
I wanted to make a photoshop diagram but I have been busy working on a song I just entered into a contest in Australia. The song is free to listen to online it only costs if people want to download it.
My song's title is "Who's Loving You Tonight" My artist name is RexRed
If anyone is interested please sign up, add yourself as a fan and vote. If you have any questions private message me. (sorry this is off topic peeps)
Also
Roy, Your links were very interesting I studied them too, I would like to get my hands on the book mentioned in one of the links it sounds very interesting. More on that in a bit. Thanks!
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DrWearWord
I remember being taught years ago in the way that it was thought foolishness by the wise to think that we could pray to an invisible God and believe for something concrete and tangible, but this was the wisdom of God. For man's wisdom is foolishness to God's way of thinking.
1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
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spectrum49
It makes perfect sense to me, DrWearWord! Let me elaborate a bit...
First of all, I am certainly no scientist, but I have always been interested in that field. I am no math whiz either. (Although, in college I nearly ACED the entire course in "Analytical Geometry and Calculus", the only 5-credit course offered at the school. I got 100's on each weekly quiz, a 98 on the midterm and ACED the final exam.)
Sorry if that's sounds a bit "haughty"...it's been a long time since then! But I tell you what: If you ever care to examine the MATH behind Dr Haisch's supposition, it would make your head swim! It all looks like hieroglyphics to me!
Now, back to "reality", if there really is such a thing!...
I have found that things are really MUCH DEEPER than all this, as you also had said! I am a firm believer in the fact that ALL PHYSICAL THINGS have something "spiritual" behind them. Jesus Christ spoke in parables, showing an "interconnection" between the physical and spiritual realms. The Bible also reveals such a thing in Romans:
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him [spiritual realities] from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
That verse reveals that even things concerning God's "eternal power" and "Godhead" may be understood by looking "behind" the things that are made. Genesis chapter one shows (in "six days") a vast array of that which was made, so you may consider that as a wonderful source of information to LOOK BEHIND and discover some of the most amazing things in the entire universe!
Yet, for all this, I say: Even if Dr Haisch and his collaborators are indeed correct about the "light" in Genesis 1 on the first day being connected to their "zero-point field", even that in itself is yet but another PHYSICAL THING with a name attatched to it. And guess what? Behind that is something MORE...and behind that, EVEN MORE - and more, and more, even on to "infinity" - whatever that term truly means!
Yes, DrWearWord, we are both in total agreement that "zero may descend even deeper than the light field", as you put it!
Man, in his "feeble attempt" to discover all the secrets of the universe only finds a mere "drop in the ocean" with every new advance in technology. But isn't that what makes life so fun? The thrill of exploration and discovery has kept man searching for "answers" since the very dawn of civilization.
It sort of reminds me of the lyrics in a song by the Moody Blues (in reference to a verse in Revelation, no doubt):
"Knights in white satin, never reaching the end, Letters I've written, never meaning to send.
Beauty I've always missed, with these eyes before. Just what the truth is, I can't say anymore"...
Well, I can't say much more right now, either - this area is just too darn vast!
I will be listening to your song soon, DrWearWord. And speaking of that, I will now also "plug" my stuff too...
A few here at Greasespot are aware of the fact that I have recently written my first book. I believe I will entitle it, "Genesis One: God's Table of Contents". I hope it will be interesting reading to many.
It is in the "conceptual editing phase" of publication at the moment. (lot's of work to be done yet) Advanced copies should be available around August, and the official "worldwide release" in November. Please wish me "luck".
SPEC
:)
PS: After I posted this, I noticed you had commented again:
HOW VERY VERY TRUE!
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nyunknown
Just adding a little levity!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPE_xB0HIbw
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DrWearWord
I don't remember that one. But yes, zero is my hero 2... :)
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DrWearWord
I was once again visited by the angel Iaoel to establish zero in my thoughts and heart. I stood on a great plane where the was a small ranch behind me. I was outside and there was one who hungered but did not thirst accompanying me.
The wind began to blow and the clouds started to move exceedingly fast overhead. The clouds were low and and light with huge dark patches. At first the clouds moved in rapidly from the distance and breezed overhead with an ominous pattern. They started to move with such a virulent speed I tried to race towards the ranch house. The wind pulled at me to slow my speed. Then a large patch of clouds became animated as if they were alive! I turned to look at the one who hungered but did not thirst and the wind engulfed their attempt to run from the face of its pull. The clouds came down from the heavens and held this person against their will and attempt to retreat, all while the clouds still raced over head.
I awoke from this vision knowing it was not a mere dream but a sign from above. That what seems as lifeless and empty as zero has the power to hold us, engulf us and even sustain us in spite of its seemingly vacant nature.
That one is never to underestimate the power of zero for zero is a living God.
Hebrews 12:1 KJV
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Comment: I've looked at zero from both sides now. :)
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waysider
Ahhh 'cmon.
You had to know I would post
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