missing the "fellowship"

[Oakspear]

About the only situation that I see where the so-called trauma bonding would make sense would be in a "persecution" situation. There were times during my TWI days when there was opposition united against the local wayfers for one reason or another. The first half of my own WOW year was a good example of this. A local pastor got people in a froth against us; loudly confronting us in the streets, radio programs against us, community meetings with us as the subject, even to the point of rock throwing and at least one incident involving someone trying to run us down with their car. It was us versus the world it seemed to the four of us. All of this only served to cement the idea that it was the true believers of TWI standing up to the Satan-inspired world.

In my opinion though, the rose-colored glasses view some folks' time in TWI is more a function of belonging to something in our youth that at the time we thought was worthwhile.

[Bramble]

I found that friendship in TWI was pretty shallow in the end. Friends were expected to reveal dirt about other friends to the leadership or be in trouble themselves, so it was easier to just not know too much.

The three plus meetings a week were not intimate friend meets, everyone wore their perfect faithful believer suit and conversation was constrained to ministry-speak. There was little time outside the schedule to just hang out or do something pleasant with a friend. Moms of young children did try, but TWi was absolutly unsupportive and stressful for young families so friendship wasn't really the issue, survival was. And you certainly didn't reveal any problem you had with TWI!

[brainfixed]

for me the trauma bond makes sense because well it was pretty traumatic what us kids that i knew were going through and we most certainly were in fear of our lives and knew that we knew that we knew (yes, we thought like that about it) some of us would really be killed at some point by some of the leaders or even our parents and we had to escape to survive. yes it was like that for us kids that i knew but i am not saying it was like that for all kids but i am saying that i do get the "foxhole" thing but i don't have much to do with those kids nowadays and they don't have much to do with me because we really don't have anything we particularly want to talk about that we have in common, but we do check in on each other a couple of times a year and some of us are dead now from suicides or "hard living" or something else and it's not the "good old days" or "friendship" or "fellowship" we remember when we remember those that have fallen, so i don't get the whole "foxhole" thing totally because there is no "glory" to fall because of the things we fall from or to fall from what caused the things we fall from.

[T-Bone]

i've been reading a lot lately around here about people missing the "fellowship" of being in the way international, and it might be that i'm just noticing it a lot more nowadays or something and it's not being said a lot more around here, but anyway i've also been noticing that the "fellowship" is also being equated to "friendship" and that this happens a lot in the "real" world, too, like with co-workers or in exercise groups or even in support groups that people find "common ground" and equate that to "friendship".

well i had to unlearn this habit because it's not really "friendship" and it's not really "fellowship" in the sense that i've read some people make "fellowship" out to be, and even the dictionary defines "fellowship" to be as one part " friendly relationship; companionship: the fellowship of father and son.", or even another part of "communion, as between members of the same church" because in the way international "communion" wasn't even practiced correctly and did not at all build true fellowship between people but divided people one against another

i've had to learn a new way to define "friendship" and "fellowship" that is healthy, helpful, and builds trust and caring and longevity into a relationship, instead of the false "friendship" and "fellowship" offered at the way international that was always "upon condition" and was proudly used to divide husband against wife, mother against child, brother against sister, and all that pure evil that the way international took only one verse out of context to "justify" their sin. "friendship" for me must now be built and it is no longer a given just because of common interests or even common goals. "fellowship" i now take far more seriously than sitting around being told how to think and yelled at if i don't think it quite right. i also have to be able to trust the person farther than our belief systems before i will consider them part of a "friendship" or even a "fellowship" with me. it surprises me now that i ever considered that stuff as true "friendship" or "fellowship".

What I realize now is that there was two different categories in my relationships - and it was a distinction between who I wanted to hang out with [friends I chose] and those I had to be with - the rest of believers - fellowship - folks TWI preferred I be with.

As the years went on - I so looked forward to non-TWI get-togethers when I could hang out with friends - they were TWI believers of course, and they were mostly serving in some kind of leadership capacity also, all of us advancing in the TWI hierarchy at more or less the same time. We could let it all hang out - even complain about stuff. Ya gotta have a way to let off steam. Those were the times I hold in fond memory - the good times & bad times that we experienced together - what true friends do - with each other through thick & thin.

Running fellowships was a lot of work - having to be with people that I would never choose to be with.So being with friends was a real treat for me. genuine friendships just happen - something that comes naturally - and Tonto and I only had a handful of friends.I feel most relationships in TWI were artificial - arranged - maybe even "forced". But genuine friendships can develop out of any situation - something we all need being the social creatures that we are.

[geisha779]

for me the trauma bond makes sense because well it was pretty traumatic what us kids that i knew were going through and we most certainly were in fear of our lives and knew that we knew that we knew (yes, we thought like that about it) some of us would really be killed at some point by some of the leaders or even our parents and we had to escape to survive. yes it was like that for us kids that i knew but i am not saying it was like that for all kids but i am saying that i do get the "foxhole" thing but i don't have much to do with those kids nowadays and they don't have much to do with me because we really don't have anything we particularly want to talk about that we have in common, but we do check in on each other a couple of times a year and some of us are dead now from suicides or "hard living" or something else and it's not the "good old days" or "friendship" or "fellowship" we remember when we remember those that have fallen, so i don't get the whole "foxhole" thing totally because there is no "glory" to fall because of the things we fall from or to fall from what caused the things we fall from.

That makes sense and where the analogy would fit. It wouldn't make sense if you all were bonded around the idea that TWI was a real Christian movement and you all missed the fellowship and friendship you had around "the word".

Off to work. . . thanks for the topic brainfixed. It is obviously very complex and very individual. . . .and there is no way around the fact it was part of our past and because it was intense conditioning. . . . it did shape much of our youthful perceptions. . . . yikes!

[excathedra]

for me the trauma bond makes sense because well it was pretty traumatic what us kids that i knew were going through and we most certainly were in fear of our lives and knew that we knew that we knew (yes, we thought like that about it) some of us would really be killed at some point by some of the leaders or even our parents and we had to escape to survive. yes it was like that for us kids that i knew but i am not saying it was like that for all kids but i am saying that i do get the "foxhole" thing but i don't have much to do with those kids nowadays and they don't have much to do with me because we really don't have anything we particularly want to talk about that we have in common, but we do check in on each other a couple of times a year and some of us are dead now from suicides or "hard living" or something else and it's not the "good old days" or "friendship" or "fellowship" we remember when we remember those that have fallen, so i don't get the whole "foxhole" thing totally because there is no "glory" to fall because of the things we fall from or to fall from what caused the things we fall from.

how heartbreaking

[Ham]

I don't know if I miss the fellowship.. I think more than that, I miss my family..

[chockfull]

That being said, I can understand why some ex way corps folks would be bonded together thus the way corps only site. I can understand why some ex wow folks would be bonded together. Genuine people living in the trenches of life together forms a bond.

You know, that Way Corps Ning site really is only a place where a whole bunch of people put up pictures of their families. A few are getting together and going on a cruise. Some people connect again, but for the most part there's no real fellowship there any more than there ever was in TWI. Any communication there is always shrouded over by the stigma of "what are people doing regarding their spritual life" and if they are still involved, what position they have. So John R keeps controversy out, and people talk nicey nicey with no depth.

You're not missing anything over there. And all that rhetoric about people living in trenches forming a bond is a bunch of horse puckey. Sure people who went through training together putting up with all sorts of BS get close at that time. But that doesn't last either. And once people leave 99% of the time nobody contacts them ever. They are shunned.

Sheesh, life has enough trenches to forge through now without needing to live in the foxholes of the past like an out of sorts Vietnam vet with PTSD.

[brainfixed]

well i'm glad i'm not ex way corps because i wouldn't be able to "talk nicey nicey" particularly if i ran into some certain people because i'd want to take them through some "trenches" and see if we "bonded" afterwards.

edited to say that this discussion got a whole lot deeper than i thought it would get for me and i'm not threatening any violence towards anybody but i'm speaking sarcastically and i use words to express myself but i'm not even that good with words.

Edited December 12, 2009 by brainfixed

[waysider]

I think I can sorta understand the trench analogy in regard to the kids. They got drafted into the mess. They couldn't possibly have walked away, even if it was the foremost thought in their minds. So, they had to hang tight together for survival. I think that's a different kind of bonding than the one experienced by we who elected to join.

[cheranne]

http://hubpages.com/hub/Camoflage-Cocoons

[cheranne]

what Bramble said.

Edited December 12, 2009 by cheranne

[excathedra]

So John R keeps controversy out, and people talk nicey nicey with no depth.

a shame

[waysider]

I don't know if I miss the fellowship.. I think more than that, I miss my family..

I hear THAT!

[brainfixed]

even though my head knows that my family was going to be my family with or without the way international i can't help but to wonder if it would have gotten so bad if it weren't for the way international because my mom was at one time somebody i could turn to but then she got deep into way indoctrination and became somebody that was my worst enemy in the end because she turned against her own children if it meant choosing the way international or her children, and the same thing with my brother and my sisters. so i can't say i miss my family but i can say i miss what my might have been given a different chance at things, but even that is a "what if" fantasy because i'll never know for sure if it was way indoctrination or their basic nature.

[excathedra]

i think or at least hope it was way indoctrination

[RumRunner]

i think or at least hope it was way indoctrination

I probably would agree with that. Given the number of failed families in TWI it seems the common thread is TWI's indoctrination and not that the parents or children were messed up by nature.