So you meant to say that specifically VPW and Martindale engaged on Troilism? I think lots of the stories on this website about things of that nature are made up and there's motif for them to do so. Even if some of the stories are true, it doesn't really effect my working and applying the Word in my life. As I've said a few times already, man isn't perfect. In the world people tend to remember the worst things about a person. I like to focus on the positive.
If you think these are just " made-up stories", you obviously haven't taken much time to give serious consideration to the many resources here that go beyond the forums. Do you even know about the lawsuit that ultimately led to the creation of this site?
Do you suppose you would feel the same way if it had been your mother, sister, wife or daughter who was sexually abused by leadership?
There is something that puzzles me about your confidence that error has been corrected and all is well in the land of Oz. . . . and that is. . . how would you know?
Isn't this a foundational or introductory class? Are you an educated bible scholar? Have you been to seminary? Even to an accredited bible college?
How about those who collaborated on the effort? What are their qualifications to teach a bible class? Who reviewed it?
TWI does not qualify as an educational institution. Frankly, cults don't really qualify as places of higher learning. They are geared more toward indoctrination than education.
If you took the material to a recognized scholar within the framework of the mainstream Christian community and to someone with academic accountability and have the material assesed, you might have some credibility.
I would settle for Hank Hannegraff, The Bible Answer Man.
I am not speaking of those on the fringes of aberrant faith. . . . . those who came out of other ciults such a COG.
How do you know error as been corrected? You alluded to ultra dispensationalism. . . .
Seems to me, I remember being told that once I took PFAL. . . . I would know more than most seminary grads. . . . it is just not true.
Have someone with qualifications who is recognized look over the material and help you out.
You don't need a scholar to tell you that "children obey your parents" is right. You don't need a piece of paper from a worldly institution to certify every bit of knowledge in your head. Living,studying, and applying the Word isn't as arduous as you seem to want it to be. Only when the Word contradicts itself does it need to be researched deeper. Everything the Word says if for your benefit. Why would you question something like "I can do all things"? The Word energizes your actions. I feel amazing and excellent with the Word in my mind. Would you rather I believe that I'm not special? Just another life form waiting to die? Or may you would have children believe they shouldn't obey there parents? The Word is common sense.
If you think these are just " made-up stories", you obviously haven't taken much time to give serious consideration to the many resources here that go beyond the forums. Do you even know about the lawsuit that ultimately led to the creation of this site?
Do you suppose you would feel the same way if it had been your mother, sister, wife or daughter who was sexually abused by leadership?
I'm just asking.
Lot's of people just want to slander The Way, so they make stuff up to win supporters. I have no idea how I would act if something like that happened to family because it hasn't. I wouldn't murder or destroy for revenge I know that. I have forgiven people who have seriously wronged me. It felt good.
You don't need a scholar to tell you that "children obey your parents" is right. You don't need a piece of paper from a worldly institution to certify every bit of knowledge in your head. Living,studying, and applying the Word isn't as arduous as you seem to want it to be. Only when the Word contradicts itself does it need to be researched deeper. Everything the Word says if for your benefit. Why would you question something like "I can do all things"? The Word energizes your actions. I feel amazing and excellent with the Word in my mind. Would you rather I believe that I'm not special? Just another life form waiting to die? Or may you would have children believe they shouldn't obey there parents? The Word is common sense.
People can take scripture and make it mean anything. Take for example "I can do all things" well, can you? If you jumped off a ten story building. . . . could you fly? No. What you can do . . . is endure suffering, hardship and hunger, . . . . affliction is in the context. But, you wrote why would you question "I can do all things" Really, because I can't do all things.
If I am told I can have a more abundant life. . . . why would I be suffering hardship, hunger, and affliction? You can't tell me Paul didn't have faith. There has to be something more to it than "I can do all things." More to what abundance means. It isn't common sense it is about the deep things of God.
How many mountains have you cast into the sea or fig trees have you cursed? Is that what it really means? That you can actually do these things? Is that common sense? Or, is there another meaning? Would you know the difference if someone told you?
BTW, Christian Seminaries and Bible Colleges are not exactly "worldly" insitutions. This is where Christians are trained to teach the bible.
People can take scripture and make it mean anything. Take for example "I can do all things" well, can you? If you jumped off a ten story building. . . . could you fly? No. What you can do . . . is endure suffering, hardship and hunger, . . . . affliction is in the context. But, you wrote why would you question "I can do all things" Really, because I can't do all things.
If I am told I can have a more abundant life. . . . why would I be suffering hardship, hunger, and affliction? You can't tell me Paul didn't have faith. There has to be something more to it than "I can do all things." More to what abundance means. It isn't common sense it is about the deep things of God.
How many mountains have you cast into the sea or fig trees have you cursed? Is that what it really means? That you can actually do these things? Is that common sense? Or, is there another meaning? Would you know the difference if someone told you?
BTW, Christian Seminaries and Bible Colleges are not exactly "worldly" insitutions. This is where Christians are trained to teach the bible.
Well, that is an assumption. . . . but, let me ask you. . . . . holding me back from what? It is just "common sense" that I can't do all things. What I can do according to that scripture is endure troubles. It doesn't mean I have a magic wand and if I repeat Phil 4:13 enough I can do anything. But, if someone tells you it means that. . . how do you know it is correct? Common sense tells us we jump off a building. . . we don't fly.
How do you know the errors have been corrected?
I am more than a conqueror. . . . in what am I more than a conqueror?. . . . Trouble, hardship, persecution, famine nakedness, danger and sword? These are not happy things. . . It isn't saying that these things are not going to happen, nor is it saying I can believe them away. . . .it says they won't separate me from the love of God. . . . not that God loves me so they won't ever happen. These situations are not going to separate me . . . THAT is how they are conquered. . .I may die from them, but I will not be separated from the love of God.
Christians are imprisoned, tortured and martyred all the time. . . . always for the glory of God. . . . are they still more than conquerors? Their situation doesn't resolve itself. . . . might be something else to these verses. . . more than common sense.
How would you know?
Psalm 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
Does this verse mean the ink on the page is greater than God himself? Not all psalms can be directly correlated to a specific event or time, but this one can. 2 Samuel 7 and the Davidic covenant. God promised David that his line would carry the seed. . . . this is refering to a specific promise which God made. . . . this revelation exceeded all previous revelations. . . . this is why it is magnified. . . . But.. . . .
If you don't understand this. . . you can easily be lead right into bible idolatry or worship. Taking one verse out of its context and making it mean something it was never meant to. . . . building a theology around it.
This is why you need qualified bible teachers to look over this class.
Well, that is an assumption. . . . but, let me ask you. . . . . holding me back from what? It is just "common sense" that I can't do all things. What I can do according to that scripture is endure troubles. It doesn't mean I have a magic wand and if I repeat Phil 4:13 enough I can do anything. But, if someone tells you it means that. . . how do you know it is correct? Common sense tells us we jump off a building. . . we don't fly.
How do you know the errors have been corrected?
I am more than a conqueror. . . . in what am I more than a conqueror?. . . . Trouble, hardship, persecution, famine nakedness, danger and sword? These are not happy things. . . It isn't saying that these things are not going to happen, nor is it saying I can believe them away. . . .it says they won't separate me from the love of God. . . . not that God loves me so they won't ever happen. These situations are not going to separate me . . . THAT is how they are conquered. . .I may die from them, but I will not be separated from the love of God.
Christians are imprisoned, tortured and martyred all the time. . . . always for the glory of God. . . . are they still more than conquerors? Their situation doesn't resolve itself. . . . might be something else to these verses. . . more than common sense.
How would you know?
Psalm 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
Does this verse mean the ink on the page is greater than God himself? Not all psalms can be directly correlated to a specific event or time, but this one can. 2 Samuel 7 and the Davidic covenant. God promised David that his line would carry the seed. . . . this is refering to a specific promise which God made. . . . this revelation exceeded all previous revelations. . . . this is why it is magnified. . . . But.. . . .
If you don't understand this. . . you can easily be lead right into bible idolatry or worship. Taking one verse out of its context and making it mean something it was never meant to. . . . building a theology around it.
This is why you need qualified bible teachers to look over this class.
I usually just give from my heart and don't entertain negative thoughts as to what's done with it. God knows my heart and he treasures it.
There is a harsh reality revealed in scripture about those who lead people astray and those who follow their pernicious ways . . . and it isn't "God knows my heart and he treasures it."
You know where Paul talks about counting all these things as dung? He is talking post conversion. Filthy rags Heckler. . . . Doesn't mean you can't be a good guy. . . . but, that. . . . amounts to squat.
It isn't about us or our hearts. It is about God and His glory.
There is a harsh reality revealed in scripture about those who lead people astray and those who follow their pernicious ways . . . and it isn't "God knows my heart and he treasures it."
You know where Paul talks about counting all these things as dung? He is talking post conversion. Filthy rags Heckler. . . . Doesn't mean you can't be a good guy. . . . but, that. . . . amounts to squat.
It isn't about us or our hearts. It is about God and His glory.
Call Hank Hannegraff.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. III John 2
You know what the Word says about leading people astray! Then why are you doing this?! It grieves me greatly. Such a smart girl.
In all sincerity, please read the articles on this site, it will help you understand some of the errors the Way teachings promote.
The first being your reference verse to ''private interpretation''.
2 Peter 1- 21. Please read the WHOLE chapter.
What is being taught has NOTHING to do with the ''subject'' of this chapter....go on....try for yourself.
Do you see it? ME, MYSELF, and I are never mentioned here in verse 21.
It is all about HOW WE GOT THE SCRIPTURES, and who wrote it!! They are clarifying the apostles authroity and authorship of the writings. That THEY (the apostles) are not giving THEIR OWN OPINION, that they are just writing what the HOLY SPIRIT tells them.
MY INTERPRETATION or my view is NOT an issue or relevant to this passage AT ALL!!
And yet, they teach it in the ''How to Word Interprets Itself'' part of the class.....where it was written before, in the verse, in the context.......and that we aren't suppossed to think of ''one's own''interpretation when reading. Really? Then who's interpretation are we listening to? It is just another way to indoctrinate your thinking to make your conscience shut off and only hear THEiR interpretation (without you realizing it ).
They disregarded their own research passages to ''privately interpret'' this verse.
This was the first peice of the ''leaving THE WAY puzzle'' for my departure. I was in, longer than you have been out of diapers. There are many more.
The Way teachings are very self-centered. It's all about ME mentality...you've already proved it in your posts....I can do all things, I , I , I.....!
His Word, this life....it's all about HIM. Who HE is, and not me. If you really want God in your life, and I believe you do. then, TRY these teachings. TEST them, and reaseach OTHER true biblical leaders of our day (or past). You will find that Way teachings will lead you down a path of selfish bible worship and egotism. imo.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. III John 2
You know what the Word says about leading people astray! Then why are you doing this?! It grieves me greatly. Such a smart girl.
Take a common greeting written by the loving Apostle John and build a theology around it. . .okay, why not . . . . Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Isn't that also "God's word"? . . . . . And remember two verses later God magnified His word above is name.
In all sincerity, please read the articles on this site, it will help you understand some of the errors the Way teachings promote.
The first being your reference verse to ''private interpretation''.
2 Peter 1- 21. Please read the WHOLE chapter.
What is being taught has NOTHING to do with the ''subject'' of this chapter....go on....try for yourself.
Do you see it? ME, MYSELF, and I are never mentioned here in verse 21.
It is all about HOW WE GOT THE SCRIPTURES, and who wrote it!! They are clarifying the apostles authroity and authorship of the writings. That THEY (the apostles) are not giving THEIR OWN OPINION, that they are just writing what the HOLY SPIRIT tells them.
MY INTERPRETATION or my view is NOT an issue or relevant to this passage AT ALL!!
And yet, they teach it in the ''How to Word Interprets Itself'' part of the class.....where it was written before, in the verse, in the context.......and that we aren't suppossed to think of ''one's own''interpretation when reading. Really? Then who's interpretation are we listening to? It is just another way to indoctrinate your thinking to make your conscience shut off and only hear THEiR interpretation (without you realizing it ).
They disregarded their own research passages to ''privately interpret'' this verse.
This was the first peice of the ''leaving THE WAY puzzle'' for my departure. I was in, longer than you have been out of diapers. There are many more.
The Way teachings are very self-centered. It's all about ME mentality...you've already proved it in your posts....I can do all things, I , I , I.....!
His Word, this life....it's all about HIM. Who HE is, and not me. If you really want God in your life, and I believe you do. then, TRY these teachings. TEST them, and reaseach OTHER true biblical leaders of our day (or past). You will find that Way teachings will lead you down a path of selfish bible worship and egotism. imo.
peace.
God says in His Word that the bible it more intricately woven that even the human body and that he magnifies it above his own name. Thus Word must interpret itself. I sense your tenderheartedness though, and I feel as if you might have my interest in mind. However, sincerity is no guarantee for Truth.
Take a common greeting written by the loving Apostle John and build a theology around it. . .okay, why not . . . . Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Isn't that also "God's word"? . . . . . And remember two verses later God magnified His word above is name.
Get thee to a church Heckler!!
Take Care. . . and thanks for the chat.
Come on that's silly. We don't do that in The Way and in fellowships.
I sense your tenderheartedness though, and I feel as if you might have my interest in mind. However, sincerity is no guarantee for Truth.
hello "theheckler" and welcome, but i don't know if i can be a part of the welcoming committee yet because i'm a new person around these parts too, but welcome anyway. it's been a long time since i've heard the indoctrination used "properly" and not at all since i've been having my "brain fixed" so this discussion is very revealing to watch! this little bit that i've quoted here struck me because i saw it quite clearly for something that happens quite a bit in the "real" world but to see it first-hand from the "real" world and not from inside of the way international thought patterns shows me what it always was and that is a form of "detachment". you feel the connection to another human being, but the indoctrination kicks in automatically and you detach from that connection. it's the same thing that happens when the old "i have no friends when it comes to the word" indoctrination kicks in. these things may seem all well and good and harmless enough and even quite strengthening to your "walk", but in the end they take away someone's humanity and leave the very last thing someone truly born again ever wanted to "manifest" and that is hard-heartedness one towards another.
The 5 son ship rights and the 7 is it? fruit of the spirit and is it 9? manifestations of the holy spirit? Do you operate those still?
Is that a stupid question?
not "stupid" at all. but to ask it of people you are not close friends with it is a "cold" question.
So, you pull a verse out of context like 3 John 2 . . . . like that stand alone quote is supposed to have some depth of implication to me. . . . some meaning on its own? I hear that verse and certain understanding should spring to mind? I am no longer indoctrinated into TWI theology. It doesn't speak to me of the promise of prosperity, abundance, and a trouble free life.
The context of 2nd and 3rd John is about not showing hospitality to false teachers, but showing real hospitality to the true brethren. John writing in 90AD is addressing what was then going on. . . . gnosticism, anti-christs, and false teachers challenging the church.
To use it as some kind of rallying cry for TWI's concept of "the more abundant" life. . . seems sad to me.
John himself was an old frail man when he wrote this. . . exiled on an island akin to a prison camp. Not Club Med. . . . nor was he rejoicing in some kind of prosperity and great health.
The majority of the Apostles were martyred for the faith, they were not laughing all the way to the bank.
Now, the Apostle whom "Jesus loved" might have had the inside track on "the abundant life" and what it meant. . . . even while he was sitting in painful exile on Patmos?
THINK!! . . . . you might have that uh-oh moment you need.
It is not about you or your best life now is it? Surely the Lord knows how to give us the very best . . . but, he also knows how to take it away. The question is. . . . in either poverty or wealth, sickness or health. . . do we know how to live for Him? Not always. . . no. Which is the greater goal?
How do you reconcile that one greeting with the plethora of verses which reveal the lives of Christians as full of trouble and suffering? If it has to fit with the whole word. . . . . . . someone . . . . somewhere. . . . . is going to have to start doing some serious mental gymnastics.
The result of such gymnastics. . . . . TWI theology. You might start hearing things like "For our learning" "Administrations" and "Literal according to usage".
Do you know what it means to have your ears tickled? To hear what you want to hear? It is what gets us in trouble and leads us right into groups like TWI.
Without the benefit of sound theology. . . . qualified teachers . . . . and accountability. . . . it is pretty much assured that someone . . . . somewhere. . . . is going to prey on our ignorance.
I have tried to speak to you in biblease. . . . a language you claim as your own . . . but, if you are learning it in TWI. . . it might just be pig-latin.
I have tried to speak to you in biblease. . . . a language you claim as your own . . . but, if you are learning it in TWI. . . it might just be pig-latin.
Heh heh heh - pig latin / TWI - has a nice ring to it.
Shoot Heckler....You have it going on. In every way you show that you can at least stand your ground and not back down. Here at GSC we all have the right to decide for ourselves as to our opinion of your judgement in these things.
It is one thing to "SAY" that TWI stands for God, truth, and the accuracy of God's Word (and similarly good sentiments you put in your own words)
But it is a different thing all together to prove convincingly that top TWI leadership are not truly scummy and manipulative liars who are not worthy of your willingness to speak on behalf of them or their organization.
If you showed a fraction of the up close and personal contact that many Greasespotters have shared from their own life it would tend to give your version of the truth more credibility. But most of us were dedicated Wayfers at one point as you seem to be now. And our sharings come from our experiences while a part of TWI for the most part.
What specific experiences of your own do you offer us that back up your side of the story as it concerns The Way International?
I will generally consider your version of things as a unfortunate result of TWI public relations and spin until you show or tell me why I should give your understanding of what TWI is any credibility.
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TheHeckler
I appreciate the warm welcome. So far I've done an hour or more of reading. I've drawn a few conclusions so far. 1. Their are wise men amidst, both in Word and in world. I have respect for you and ev
pawtucket
The abused most certainly exist. The damage was and is real. If you are here to diminish the actions of twi leadership, this probably isn't the place for you.
waysider
If you think these are just " made-up stories", you obviously haven't taken much time to give serious consideration to the many resources here that go beyond the forums. Do you even know about the lawsuit that ultimately led to the creation of this site?
Do you suppose you would feel the same way if it had been your mother, sister, wife or daughter who was sexually abused by leadership?
I'm just asking.
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TheHeckler
You don't need a scholar to tell you that "children obey your parents" is right. You don't need a piece of paper from a worldly institution to certify every bit of knowledge in your head. Living,studying, and applying the Word isn't as arduous as you seem to want it to be. Only when the Word contradicts itself does it need to be researched deeper. Everything the Word says if for your benefit. Why would you question something like "I can do all things"? The Word energizes your actions. I feel amazing and excellent with the Word in my mind. Would you rather I believe that I'm not special? Just another life form waiting to die? Or may you would have children believe they shouldn't obey there parents? The Word is common sense.
Lot's of people just want to slander The Way, so they make stuff up to win supporters. I have no idea how I would act if something like that happened to family because it hasn't. I wouldn't murder or destroy for revenge I know that. I have forgiven people who have seriously wronged me. It felt good.
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waysider
It's obvious to me that you have no desire for genuine discussion.
I bid you farewell.
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TheHeckler
Was it the part about forgiveness?
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geisha779
People can take scripture and make it mean anything. Take for example "I can do all things" well, can you? If you jumped off a ten story building. . . . could you fly? No. What you can do . . . is endure suffering, hardship and hunger, . . . . affliction is in the context. But, you wrote why would you question "I can do all things" Really, because I can't do all things.
If I am told I can have a more abundant life. . . . why would I be suffering hardship, hunger, and affliction? You can't tell me Paul didn't have faith. There has to be something more to it than "I can do all things." More to what abundance means. It isn't common sense it is about the deep things of God.
How many mountains have you cast into the sea or fig trees have you cursed? Is that what it really means? That you can actually do these things? Is that common sense? Or, is there another meaning? Would you know the difference if someone told you?
BTW, Christian Seminaries and Bible Colleges are not exactly "worldly" insitutions. This is where Christians are trained to teach the bible.
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TheHeckler
That's called private interpretation.
"I can't do all things". It's holding you back.
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TheHeckler
eval(die()); //
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mstar1
wisest thing Ive read in the entire thread.
..walk not with a foolish man...Proverbs
its just 'common sense'
see ya
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geisha779
Well, that is an assumption. . . . but, let me ask you. . . . . holding me back from what? It is just "common sense" that I can't do all things. What I can do according to that scripture is endure troubles. It doesn't mean I have a magic wand and if I repeat Phil 4:13 enough I can do anything. But, if someone tells you it means that. . . how do you know it is correct? Common sense tells us we jump off a building. . . we don't fly.
How do you know the errors have been corrected?
I am more than a conqueror. . . . in what am I more than a conqueror?. . . . Trouble, hardship, persecution, famine nakedness, danger and sword? These are not happy things. . . It isn't saying that these things are not going to happen, nor is it saying I can believe them away. . . .it says they won't separate me from the love of God. . . . not that God loves me so they won't ever happen. These situations are not going to separate me . . . THAT is how they are conquered. . .I may die from them, but I will not be separated from the love of God.
Christians are imprisoned, tortured and martyred all the time. . . . always for the glory of God. . . . are they still more than conquerors? Their situation doesn't resolve itself. . . . might be something else to these verses. . . more than common sense.
How would you know?
Psalm 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
Does this verse mean the ink on the page is greater than God himself? Not all psalms can be directly correlated to a specific event or time, but this one can. 2 Samuel 7 and the Davidic covenant. God promised David that his line would carry the seed. . . . this is refering to a specific promise which God made. . . . this revelation exceeded all previous revelations. . . . this is why it is magnified. . . . But.. . . .
If you don't understand this. . . you can easily be lead right into bible idolatry or worship. Taking one verse out of its context and making it mean something it was never meant to. . . . building a theology around it.
This is why you need qualified bible teachers to look over this class.
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dmiller
Good idea Mstar.
I think I'll catch that White Freightliner outta here. 
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="
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TheHeckler
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TheHeckler
Spiritual growth is my goal. I would like to make habit of twarting temptation to be angry, or lustful, greedy, and prideful, etc.
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geisha779
There is a harsh reality revealed in scripture about those who lead people astray and those who follow their pernicious ways . . . and it isn't "God knows my heart and he treasures it."
You know where Paul talks about counting all these things as dung? He is talking post conversion. Filthy rags Heckler. . . . Doesn't mean you can't be a good guy. . . . but, that. . . . amounts to squat.
It isn't about us or our hearts. It is about God and His glory.
Call Hank Hannegraff.
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TheHeckler
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. III John 2
You know what the Word says about leading people astray! Then why are you doing this?! It grieves me greatly. Such a smart girl.
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bliss
Welcome The Heckler.
In all sincerity, please read the articles on this site, it will help you understand some of the errors the Way teachings promote.
The first being your reference verse to ''private interpretation''.
2 Peter 1- 21. Please read the WHOLE chapter.
What is being taught has NOTHING to do with the ''subject'' of this chapter....go on....try for yourself.
Do you see it? ME, MYSELF, and I are never mentioned here in verse 21.
It is all about HOW WE GOT THE SCRIPTURES, and who wrote it!! They are clarifying the apostles authroity and authorship of the writings. That THEY (the apostles) are not giving THEIR OWN OPINION, that they are just writing what the HOLY SPIRIT tells them.
MY INTERPRETATION or my view is NOT an issue or relevant to this passage AT ALL!!
And yet, they teach it in the ''How to Word Interprets Itself'' part of the class.....where it was written before, in the verse, in the context.......and that we aren't suppossed to think of ''one's own''interpretation when reading. Really? Then who's interpretation are we listening to? It is just another way to indoctrinate your thinking to make your conscience shut off and only hear THEiR interpretation (without you realizing it ).
They disregarded their own research passages to ''privately interpret'' this verse.
This was the first peice of the ''leaving THE WAY puzzle'' for my departure. I was in, longer than you have been out of diapers. There are many more.
The Way teachings are very self-centered. It's all about ME mentality...you've already proved it in your posts....I can do all things, I , I , I.....!
His Word, this life....it's all about HIM. Who HE is, and not me. If you really want God in your life, and I believe you do. then, TRY these teachings. TEST them, and reaseach OTHER true biblical leaders of our day (or past). You will find that Way teachings will lead you down a path of selfish bible worship and egotism. imo.
peace.
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geisha779
Take a common greeting written by the loving Apostle John and build a theology around it. . .okay, why not . . . . Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Isn't that also "God's word"? . . . . . And remember two verses later God magnified His word above is name.
Get thee to a church Heckler!!
Take Care. . . and thanks for the chat.
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TheHeckler
God says in His Word that the bible it more intricately woven that even the human body and that he magnifies it above his own name. Thus Word must interpret itself. I sense your tenderheartedness though, and I feel as if you might have my interest in mind. However, sincerity is no guarantee for Truth.
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TheHeckler
Come on that's silly. We don't do that in The Way and in fellowships.
It must fit with the whole Word.
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TheHeckler
The 5 son ship rights and the 7 is it? fruit of the spirit and is it 9? manifestations of the holy spirit? Do you operate those still?
Is that a stupid question?
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brainfixed
hello "theheckler" and welcome, but i don't know if i can be a part of the welcoming committee yet because i'm a new person around these parts too, but welcome anyway. it's been a long time since i've heard the indoctrination used "properly" and not at all since i've been having my "brain fixed" so this discussion is very revealing to watch! this little bit that i've quoted here struck me because i saw it quite clearly for something that happens quite a bit in the "real" world but to see it first-hand from the "real" world and not from inside of the way international thought patterns shows me what it always was and that is a form of "detachment". you feel the connection to another human being, but the indoctrination kicks in automatically and you detach from that connection. it's the same thing that happens when the old "i have no friends when it comes to the word" indoctrination kicks in. these things may seem all well and good and harmless enough and even quite strengthening to your "walk", but in the end they take away someone's humanity and leave the very last thing someone truly born again ever wanted to "manifest" and that is hard-heartedness one towards another.
not "stupid" at all. but to ask it of people you are not close friends with it is a "cold" question.
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WordWolf
You really haven't given thought to HALF the things you suppose you have.
vpw said that most people "only think that they think"-and this is an example.
I'll illustrate quickly.
A) These so-called 5 sonship rights.
If your beliefs are really "It is written" and "Chapter and verse, please",
then cite and post the verse where it gives the sonship rights,
they number exactly 5, and they are called "RIGHTS".
You will not find "5". You will not find they are called "rights".
And they're not said to refer to our "sonship."
B) Which verse says there are 9 manifestationS of the holy spirit?
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geisha779
So, you pull a verse out of context like 3 John 2 . . . . like that stand alone quote is supposed to have some depth of implication to me. . . . some meaning on its own? I hear that verse and certain understanding should spring to mind? I am no longer indoctrinated into TWI theology. It doesn't speak to me of the promise of prosperity, abundance, and a trouble free life.
The context of 2nd and 3rd John is about not showing hospitality to false teachers, but showing real hospitality to the true brethren. John writing in 90AD is addressing what was then going on. . . . gnosticism, anti-christs, and false teachers challenging the church.
To use it as some kind of rallying cry for TWI's concept of "the more abundant" life. . . seems sad to me.
John himself was an old frail man when he wrote this. . . exiled on an island akin to a prison camp. Not Club Med. . . . nor was he rejoicing in some kind of prosperity and great health.
The majority of the Apostles were martyred for the faith, they were not laughing all the way to the bank.
Now, the Apostle whom "Jesus loved" might have had the inside track on "the abundant life" and what it meant. . . . even while he was sitting in painful exile on Patmos?
THINK!! . . . . you might have that uh-oh moment you need.
It is not about you or your best life now is it? Surely the Lord knows how to give us the very best . . . but, he also knows how to take it away. The question is. . . . in either poverty or wealth, sickness or health. . . do we know how to live for Him? Not always. . . no. Which is the greater goal?
How do you reconcile that one greeting with the plethora of verses which reveal the lives of Christians as full of trouble and suffering? If it has to fit with the whole word. . . . . . . someone . . . . somewhere. . . . . is going to have to start doing some serious mental gymnastics.
The result of such gymnastics. . . . . TWI theology. You might start hearing things like "For our learning" "Administrations" and "Literal according to usage".
Do you know what it means to have your ears tickled? To hear what you want to hear? It is what gets us in trouble and leads us right into groups like TWI.
Without the benefit of sound theology. . . . qualified teachers . . . . and accountability. . . . it is pretty much assured that someone . . . . somewhere. . . . is going to prey on our ignorance.
I have tried to speak to you in biblease. . . . a language you claim as your own . . . but, if you are learning it in TWI. . . it might just be pig-latin.
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RumRunner
Heh heh heh - pig latin / TWI - has a nice ring to it.
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JeffSjo
Shoot Heckler....You have it going on. In every way you show that you can at least stand your ground and not back down. Here at GSC we all have the right to decide for ourselves as to our opinion of your judgement in these things.
It is one thing to "SAY" that TWI stands for God, truth, and the accuracy of God's Word (and similarly good sentiments you put in your own words)
But it is a different thing all together to prove convincingly that top TWI leadership are not truly scummy and manipulative liars who are not worthy of your willingness to speak on behalf of them or their organization.
If you showed a fraction of the up close and personal contact that many Greasespotters have shared from their own life it would tend to give your version of the truth more credibility. But most of us were dedicated Wayfers at one point as you seem to be now. And our sharings come from our experiences while a part of TWI for the most part.
What specific experiences of your own do you offer us that back up your side of the story as it concerns The Way International?
I will generally consider your version of things as a unfortunate result of TWI public relations and spin until you show or tell me why I should give your understanding of what TWI is any credibility.
(edited for spelling and grammar)
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