Are you still searching for "the truth"?

[Mark Clarke]

One of the problems that we ex-wayfers have to deal with is that any actual biblical studying or "research" that we do is going to be tainted with Waythink assumptions unless we take a lot of time and effort to throw out the bathwater, the baby, the tub, gut the bathroom and burn down the house, including that bony fish. So much of our research in TWI was based on Wierwille's faulty assumptions; we looked for things to fit with what we had been taught before, we based interpretations on phony translations of Greek & Hebrew words, we accepted the existence of texts that nobody had ever seen, and wove all of these things into our subconscious and into our basic premises so that our conclusions were bound to be skewed.

One advantage that I have is that I have never read the Bible before and was taught very little of it, even after nine years of Catholic catechism. There's a very liberating aspect to reading the Bible for the first time as a married, educated, middle-aged adult with kids. I see things that I could not possibly have understood as an adolescent or even as young college student.

I have to say, though, that it's very useful to have the tools that my friend introduced me to: interlinear/parallel reading, Strong's concordance, various commentaries, etc. Plus, the online versions that can be found at BibleGateway.com and Biblos.com make researching the Bible so much easier.

I agree, Soul Searcher. I don't think we need to "gut the bathroom and burn down the house." There are some pretty simple tools and methods to sift through what we were taught and avoid "throwing out the baby with the bathwater." We no longer need to accept what one person or group says, but we can search it out for ourselves. Most of the basic ideas in the Bible are pretty straight forward when you read it without preconceived ideas. And where there are differing opinions, many times you can see where one viewpoint makes more sense than another. But there are some areas where more than one viewpoint makes sense. For those, we no longer need to say A is right and B is wrong. It's OK to say both A and B have merit and "we'll understand it all by and by."

Edited December 3, 2009 by Mark Clarke

[soul searcher]

I dealt with that by embracing spiritual agnosticism. it gives me plenty of time and space to accept the fact that I don't know a damned thing and that spiritual truth may exist but I might never find it but I can examine, question, challenge or consider whatever I want, whenever I want without having to make up my mind about anything.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

-- Bertrand Russell

British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872-1970)

[taxicab]

Make room on the fence please! That's a great quote by Bertrand Russell.

Edited December 3, 2009 by taxicab

[crystalclearblue]

Hi Crystalclearblue, It's wonderful that you can appreciate anyone who is a Christian and loves God but can you appreciate anyone who may not be a Christian? There are a lot of wonderful people out there who aren't Christians. Why limit yourself? Enjoy the day!

Yes, I always have been able to because actually, the Non Christians have never been problematic for me.

In twi-other Christians were disregarded, unappreciated, ridiculed and even despised for not "knowing the truth" or being "biblically accurate". Even at times being accused of being "possesed" because of wrong doctrine.

It's great to meet other Christians and no longer have that wall up. It's like this whole network of people who have my back and I have theirs.

A question for you: Sometimes I get the sense that the reason some people say they are no longer Christian is because they have been so hurt by an organization such as twi. But maybe it's only the hurt talking and a need to feel liberated from all the crappy people that oppressed us. Have you picked up on that too?

Thanks Taxi Cab and Happy Friday!

[Oakspear]

A question for you: Sometimes I get the sense that the reason some people say they are no longer Christian is because they have been so hurt by an organization such as twi. But maybe it's only the hurt talking and a need to feel liberated from all the crappy people that oppressed us. Have you picked up on that too?

The question is not addressed to me...but as a non-Christian...no, this does not apply in my case.

[penworks]

The question is not addressed to me...but as a non-Christian...no, this does not apply in my case.

Just for the record, it doesn't apply in my case either.

[Oakspear]

Sometimes I get the sense that the reason some people say they are no longer Christian is because they have been so hurt by an organization such as twi. But maybe it's only the hurt talking and a need to feel liberated from all the crappy people that oppressed us. Have you picked up on that too?

I think most if not all of us who have been through TWI have "a need to feel liberated from all the crappy people that oppressed us." - how we deal with that will vary enormously. I imagine that the rationale for identifying as a non-Christian exists, I can also imagine that some others go whole-hog into fundamentalist/orthodox/evangelical/mainstream Christianity for the same reason.

For me, I have gone in the direction that I have post-TWI because it makes more sense and works better for me than Christianity does. Not that it's superior to Christianity, just that it's a better fit for me.

[taxicab]

A question for you: Sometimes I get the sense that the reason some people say they are no longer Christian is because they have been so hurt by an organization such as twi. But maybe it's only the hurt talking and a need to feel liberated from all the crappy people that oppressed us.

That's not why I'm no longer a Christian.

[Tzaia]

Me neither.

[potato]

Sometimes "sitting on the fence" can offer the best seat in the house.

you're right! I never thought about it like that before. I do like it, the view is good.

[Trefor Heywood]

I am not a follower of Jiddu Krishnamurti, or of anyone else, but I think he was spot on when he said:

I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect.

Certainly the truth is not in TWI, it only seemed so at the time.

[bowtwi]

Trefor! So good to cyberSEE ya! I trust all's well with you and yours.

[Trefor Heywood]

Trefor! So good to cyberSEE ya! I trust all's well with you and yours.

Good to see ya too bowtwi!

Reasonable I would say.

[Ham]

Very good to see you back..

I looked up the guy you quoted.. I'm impressed..

[So_crates]

Waterbuffulo:

Truth huh?

Not many years ago I read a short story in Again Dangerous Visions called Shall Dust Praise Thee?

It was about when the day of wrath arrived. An angel came down from the heaven to pour out the first bowel when he noticed the earth was strangely void of people. After much discussion and dealing with heavenly beauracracy, God was called down. He sent to an instillation where a message was left for him. It said: We were here where were you?

I'm sure this is one of the thoughts on the minds of many believes, something they noodle with in the back of there heads. Here we seeked the truth, we wanted that intimate relationship with God. What did we get instead? (As a Klingon put it once on Star Trek: an egotistical, tin plated swaggering dictator with delusions of Godhood. I of course left out pandering, money grubbing, womanizing alcoholic. Sometimes I can't help but wonder what kind of loving God would do that.

Yah, truth. As Abrose Bierce said about history: An account--mostly false--of events--mostly unimportant--brought about by rulers--mostly knaves--and soldiers--mostly fools.

SoCrates