Since it is twi policy not to let anyone be Way Corps or even to hold any leadership role...
and since I knew of several WC who went into debt for one reason or another....
I wonder how aggressively they 'smoke out' those in debt?
Maybe (if they are serious) will pass out more 3x5 cards with 3 options:
A. I am in debt.
B. I am not in debt.
C. I am confused - I'm not sure I know what it is.
I don't believe they bother going after anyone the way Craig used to. I would say it's akin to "don't ask, don't tell". They are so entirely wrong on the whole debt issue it amazes me that they think they are so "right". Here's the kicker. Their debt policy has decimated their numbers over the years since Craig left.
In 1995-96 as I recall, ANYONE who was in debt was to get out of debt quickly or be M&A. That included us unworthy peons, with a hospital bill to pay off, and we were ordered to sell some stock we owned in a very profitable company, pay off the debt and guess what to do with the rest of the money?
We bought CDs with the rest of the money. Didn't tell anybody. Used the money to get out of Dodge.
From what I understand, if you are in debt you can't hold any position in twi. It's dumb really, I know someone who had their parents put a home in their name so they could say the debt wasn't theirs and stay as FC. They pay the mortgage to the parents and the parents send the payments to the mort co. What's the dif?
From what I understand, if you are in debt you can't hold any position in twi. It's dumb really, I know someone who had their parents put a home in their name so they could say the debt wasn't theirs and stay as FC. They pay the mortgage to the parents and the parents send the payments to the mort co. What's the dif?
The difference is the BOD not having the brains to acknowledge their wrong doctrine, and more importantly, that their policy is FAIL. Honestly, if I wanted to have debt and be way corps, disciple, ac grad etc, I could just do it and they would never know. That's why I said it's like don't ask don't tell.
From what I understand, if you are in debt you can't hold any position in twi. It's dumb really, I know someone who had their parents put a home in their name so they could say the debt wasn't theirs and stay as FC. They pay the mortgage to the parents and the parents send the payments to the mort co. What's the dif?
I think there are current region coords that do this kind of thing with relatives. You ask TWI about it and their response is they aren't currently doing any work on the topic as it's not priority. In other words, they are run by their lawyers still who warn them about the legal and financial exposure that would go with changing policy due to Loy boy's antics. They are too afraid to change it because people who were "counseled" (forced through fear of excommunication) to sell houses at a loss during a bad time in real estate would sue their collective behinds.
I think there are current region coords that do this kind of thing with relatives. You ask TWI about it and their response is they aren't currently doing any work on the topic as it's not priority. In other words, they are run by their lawyers still who warn them about the legal and financial exposure that would go with changing policy due to Loy boy's antics. They are too afraid to change it because people who were "counseled" (forced through fear of excommunication) to sell houses at a loss during a bad time in real estate would sue their collective behinds.
They have no brains. They have no guts.
I have no doubt that is a large part of the equation. However, they still believe very much that debt is sin. They had Rico do a teaching a few years ago on the subject for the Way Corps and that has been the final answer. The long and short of it is debt was not God's will for his people and it was something that may be necessary in hard times but not as a way of life. Usury was out of the question from brother loaning to brother.
So they they take records from the Old Testament and a one out of context record from Romans in the New Testament and devise a debt policy that seriously limits people being able to participate in their classes and programs.
I have no doubt that is a large part of the equation. However, they still believe very much that debt is sin. They had Rico do a teaching a few years ago on the subject for the Way Corps and that has been the final answer.
That teaching was a complete travesty of research logic. Large leaps from OT to NT. Rules about how "some" laws do translate from OT to NT but others do not. I guess that the holy rubberstamp of the BOD determines which ones are still in effect. But it certainly was a great kiss@$$ piece of work to advance Rico's career, position, salary, etc.
Funny how JC came to fulfill the law in love, and the fruit produced by these clowns is the exact opposite - greater legalism and bondage.
It's funny now reading Romans on the "owe no man anything" verse, how just reading it in context is abundantly clear once you remove yourself from the leaven of the Pharisees. Living freely and simply is just giving respect where due, honor, etc. Nothing to do with reporting your financial condition to your overseer.
Oh, and that's another funny twisting of scriptures in this TWI administration - there used to be all this talk about "gift" ministries. Now all you hear is "ruling" ministries, overseers, language of bondage.
That teaching was a complete travesty of research logic. Large leaps from OT to NT. Rules about how "some" laws do translate from OT to NT but others do not. I guess that the holy rubberstamp of the BOD determines which ones are still in effect.
Yep. That about sums it up.
But it certainly was a great kiss@$$ piece of work to advance Rico's career, position, salary, etc.
Rico doesn't fart without running it by Rosalie first. It's likely that Rosalie assigned Rico the topic. Which means it would have been bounced between presidents publications and rosalie many times to make sure it matches all the ministry has published as proven ministry research. Funny they consider themselves above question.
Rico is a shallow pond with a lot of potential stymied up by an obvious lust for position within TWI. So much so that he is willing to take his intelligence and kill it in layers of bondage and foot kissing. I digress.
Funny how JC came to fulfill the law in love, and the fruit produced by these clowns is the exact opposite - greater legalism and bondage.
To them love is having good table manners at the noon meal. Matters of mercy, grace, and empathy are lost on them.
It's funny now reading Romans on the "owe no man anything" verse, how just reading it in context is abundantly clear once you remove yourself from the leaven of the Pharisees. Living freely and simply is just giving respect where due, honor, etc. Nothing to do with reporting your financial condition to your overseer.
I started to see that sometime in 2003. It's plain as the nose on my face and the paper it's printed on. If you just go and read that section of Romans, without trying to mash it into TWI's legalistic errors, it is so obvious that it is not talking about financial debt. And for them to follow that up in Craig's day by looking over peoples financial records and running them out of the ministry is INSANE!
Oh, and that's another funny twisting of scriptures in this TWI administration - there used to be all this talk about "gift" ministries. Now all you hear is "ruling" ministries, overseers, language of bondage.
I had never considered that before. Thanks for pointing it out.
. . WC who went into debt for one reason or another....
. . .
like having a premi-baby?
Shouldn't the people who promoted these WC to leadership levels be dropped? Couldn't they see they didn't have enough believing power to have healthy children and avoid going into debt?
Shouldn't the people who promoted these WC to leadership levels be dropped?
That would be asking the BOD, and ultimately Rosie and Donnie, to play by the same rules that everyone else in TWI is subject to. They are above that and not like everyone else.
The Way Corps Who Are In Debt - What will they do?
If they have any sense, they will stay in debt (at sensibly manageable levels), say "yah boo sucks" to TWI, and get on with their lives and their families.
Of course, "having sense" presupposes not too much Waybrain. But if any WC do have debt, clearly they are not fully TWI reduced (sorry, renewed) minded yet. Folks, there's still a way out. Declare your debt, get dropped, and live abundantly.
The Way Corps Who Are In Debt - What will they do?
If they have any sense, they will stay in debt (at sensibly manageable levels), say "yah boo sucks" to TWI, and get on with their lives and their families.
Kind of the major problem there is that the type of debt that makes the most sense is that which is most externally obvious. Mortgage debt to advance a long-term financial investment, loans for education or business origination, those are the types of debt most advantageous to people. The worst type of debt - credit card debt, is also that which is easiest to conceal and that which most of the Corps probably have. They can't very well buy a house without someone knowing. Same with student loans. So they have to disagree in private and conceal their consumer debt, all the while sending money in to TWI.
I've heard several people on TWI payroll in this type of situation, living below their spending because they can't get a reasonable salary from TWI. The only ones who make a corporate level salary live in a little podunc town where they don't need it, and are paying cash for homes there off of their salaries. So they have debt. I've heard a couple hint around to people with money that if someone would just give them money they could be free.
When you start looking into the finances of TWI, that's where you see a lot of the evil. Money and position - as bad or worse than any corporate fiasco you see.
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OldSkool
I don't believe they bother going after anyone the way Craig used to. I would say it's akin to "don't ask, don't tell". They are so entirely wrong on the whole debt issue it amazes me that they think they are so "right". Here's the kicker. Their debt policy has decimated their numbers over the years since Craig left.
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Watered Garden
In 1995-96 as I recall, ANYONE who was in debt was to get out of debt quickly or be M&A. That included us unworthy peons, with a hospital bill to pay off, and we were ordered to sell some stock we owned in a very profitable company, pay off the debt and guess what to do with the rest of the money?
We bought CDs with the rest of the money. Didn't tell anybody. Used the money to get out of Dodge.
WG
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crystalclearblue
From what I understand, if you are in debt you can't hold any position in twi. It's dumb really, I know someone who had their parents put a home in their name so they could say the debt wasn't theirs and stay as FC. They pay the mortgage to the parents and the parents send the payments to the mort co. What's the dif?
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OldSkool
The difference is the BOD not having the brains to acknowledge their wrong doctrine, and more importantly, that their policy is FAIL. Honestly, if I wanted to have debt and be way corps, disciple, ac grad etc, I could just do it and they would never know. That's why I said it's like don't ask don't tell.
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chockfull
I think there are current region coords that do this kind of thing with relatives. You ask TWI about it and their response is they aren't currently doing any work on the topic as it's not priority. In other words, they are run by their lawyers still who warn them about the legal and financial exposure that would go with changing policy due to Loy boy's antics. They are too afraid to change it because people who were "counseled" (forced through fear of excommunication) to sell houses at a loss during a bad time in real estate would sue their collective behinds.
They have no brains. They have no guts.
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OldSkool
I have no doubt that is a large part of the equation. However, they still believe very much that debt is sin. They had Rico do a teaching a few years ago on the subject for the Way Corps and that has been the final answer. The long and short of it is debt was not God's will for his people and it was something that may be necessary in hard times but not as a way of life. Usury was out of the question from brother loaning to brother.
So they they take records from the Old Testament and a one out of context record from Romans in the New Testament and devise a debt policy that seriously limits people being able to participate in their classes and programs.
ok words are failing me:
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chockfull
That teaching was a complete travesty of research logic. Large leaps from OT to NT. Rules about how "some" laws do translate from OT to NT but others do not. I guess that the holy rubberstamp of the BOD determines which ones are still in effect. But it certainly was a great kiss@$$ piece of work to advance Rico's career, position, salary, etc.
Funny how JC came to fulfill the law in love, and the fruit produced by these clowns is the exact opposite - greater legalism and bondage.
It's funny now reading Romans on the "owe no man anything" verse, how just reading it in context is abundantly clear once you remove yourself from the leaven of the Pharisees. Living freely and simply is just giving respect where due, honor, etc. Nothing to do with reporting your financial condition to your overseer.
Oh, and that's another funny twisting of scriptures in this TWI administration - there used to be all this talk about "gift" ministries. Now all you hear is "ruling" ministries, overseers, language of bondage.
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OldSkool
Yep. That about sums it up.
Rico doesn't fart without running it by Rosalie first. It's likely that Rosalie assigned Rico the topic. Which means it would have been bounced between presidents publications and rosalie many times to make sure it matches all the ministry has published as proven ministry research. Funny they consider themselves above question.
Rico is a shallow pond with a lot of potential stymied up by an obvious lust for position within TWI. So much so that he is willing to take his intelligence and kill it in layers of bondage and foot kissing. I digress.
To them love is having good table manners at the noon meal. Matters of mercy, grace, and empathy are lost on them.
I started to see that sometime in 2003. It's plain as the nose on my face and the paper it's printed on. If you just go and read that section of Romans, without trying to mash it into TWI's legalistic errors, it is so obvious that it is not talking about financial debt. And for them to follow that up in Craig's day by looking over peoples financial records and running them out of the ministry is INSANE!
I had never considered that before. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Bolshevik
That's what I keep telling them!
like having a premi-baby?
Shouldn't the people who promoted these WC to leadership levels be dropped? Couldn't they see they didn't have enough believing power to have healthy children and avoid going into debt?
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OldSkool
That would be asking the BOD, and ultimately Rosie and Donnie, to play by the same rules that everyone else in TWI is subject to. They are above that and not like everyone else.
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Ham
So.. in other words, they are Lords (or Lordettes)..
so.. you (innies) serve the Lords.. what do the Lords do for you?
save you from what?
I know, I know.. they save you from gluttony.
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Twinky
The Way Corps Who Are In Debt - What will they do?
If they have any sense, they will stay in debt (at sensibly manageable levels), say "yah boo sucks" to TWI, and get on with their lives and their families.
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Twinky
Of course, "having sense" presupposes not too much Waybrain. But if any WC do have debt, clearly they are not fully TWI reduced (sorry, renewed) minded yet. Folks, there's still a way out. Declare your debt, get dropped, and live abundantly.
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chockfull
Kind of the major problem there is that the type of debt that makes the most sense is that which is most externally obvious. Mortgage debt to advance a long-term financial investment, loans for education or business origination, those are the types of debt most advantageous to people. The worst type of debt - credit card debt, is also that which is easiest to conceal and that which most of the Corps probably have. They can't very well buy a house without someone knowing. Same with student loans. So they have to disagree in private and conceal their consumer debt, all the while sending money in to TWI.
I've heard several people on TWI payroll in this type of situation, living below their spending because they can't get a reasonable salary from TWI. The only ones who make a corporate level salary live in a little podunc town where they don't need it, and are paying cash for homes there off of their salaries. So they have debt. I've heard a couple hint around to people with money that if someone would just give them money they could be free.
When you start looking into the finances of TWI, that's where you see a lot of the evil. Money and position - as bad or worse than any corporate fiasco you see.
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