what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

[brainfixed]

on another discussion somebody said "Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else." and it got me thinking that this isn't real life at all unless you're so rich or so poor it doesn't matter or retired or in some other way not tied to a job and a mortgage and a car payment and insurance premiums and relatives and a whole lot of other things that may or may not particularly make you happy but they are what you do to get you by for awhile until you can get to where you're happy for a minute or two. and anyway why is being happy the goal? isn't happiness fleeting? maybe i don't get happiness. but back on the subject.

but the whole point was that if you don't like hanging out with who you're hanging out with, and if you don't like the game you're playing at the moment, then find other players and play a different game, or even make the current game better in some way, but don't complain if you stick around doing something you don't like doing with people you don't like doing it with.

well that sort of is real life if you're talking about only the games and not the other things that go on in real life like jobs and grocery shopping and doctor's appointments and driving in traffic and waiting in line at the motor vehicle department or even trying to get out of the drive through line at a fast food place when it isn't so fast or living in an apartment complex. i mean if all we're going to talk about is socializing, then yes maybe you have to play only with those you play well with and that like you and you like them and they agree with you and everything is nicey nice and la ti da and hip hip hooray like on the good old playground. maybe. but life isn't one big social event where everybody gets to pick and choose their daily activities and the people they will be interacting with.

and how does this all apply to being here at the greasespot cafe anyway? well because being here is like going to the emergency room or the doctor's for me, and i can only speak for me because i'm the only head i can get inside of so what else can i do? and when i go to the doctor's office or the emergency room there are all sorts of different people there that maybe i like them and maybe i don't, and maybe they're decent people that i'd like to get to know outside of the waiting rooms, and maybe they're under arrest and in the er because they just had a shoot-out with the cops, and maybe they're hypochondriacs and they're in the doctor's office a thousand times a week and take up the doctor's time to the point that they bully all the other patients, the nurses and the doctor so that nobody is getting what they really need, and maybe they just don't feel good and they're not in the mood or presence of mind to deal with me or anybody else at the moment.

and that's what i feel like around here, that there are people coming here and i don't know why they're here and what brought them here and maybe they don't even know for sure, but nobody thinks it's because we're all one big happy family and nothing's wrong. or do they? maybe that's what i'm not getting. but i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to be able get into people's faces, to bully people, to tell people how to live their lives, to be condescending and arrogant. and i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to try to keep people from speaking their minds so long as when they're doing that speaking it doesn't fall in those last things i mentioned. so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

[waysider]

---but i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to be able get into people's faces, to bully people, to tell people how to live their lives, to be condescending and arrogant. and i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to try to keep people from speaking their minds so long as when they're doing that speaking it doesn't fall in those last things i mentioned.

Nor do I.

That's where "The Golden Rule" trumps all the other rules.

IMO, it's possible to disagree with someone and still be cordial about it.

Not that I always succeed at that, but it is possible.

so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

Within the context of this website, I think people use the term "freedom" to mean they are no longer subject to the whims, dictates and oppression of The Way.

[JeffSjo]

Hi Brainfixed,

I think that it is likely to that a person has to learn to make their own social, ethical, and/or religious distinctions after years of being involved with a controlling and abusive religious group as TWI.

I'm thinking that some of their own choices may not be good ones, especially at first.

But at least without TWI leadership self-serving lying spin they have a real chance of learning from their own mistakes.

I really, really enjoy the many levels of disagreement within the varied distinctions here at GSC for this reason.

[chockfull]

and how does this all apply to being here at the greasespot cafe anyway? well because being here is like going to the emergency room or the doctor's for me, and i can only speak for me because i'm the only head i can get inside of so what else can i do? and when i go to the doctor's office or the emergency room there are all sorts of different people there that maybe i like them and maybe i don't, and maybe they're decent people that i'd like to get to know outside of the waiting rooms, and maybe they're under arrest and in the er because they just had a shoot-out with the cops, and maybe they're hypochondriacs and they're in the doctor's office a thousand times a week and take up the doctor's time to the point that they bully all the other patients, the nurses and the doctor so that nobody is getting what they really need, and maybe they just don't feel good and they're not in the mood or presence of mind to deal with me or anybody else at the moment.

brainfixed, are you profiling me again?

just kidding.

[Ham]

so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

maybe you need to go to a Greasespot weinie roast..

anything planned for the coming year, fellas?

[mstar1]

but i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to be able get into people's faces, to bully people, to tell people how to live their lives, to be condescending and arrogant.

I don't particularly like it either but then again you are always free not to listen to it, read it or take it to heart.

There are annoyances and weirdos almost everywhere you go but nobody is forcing anyone to take the control freaks seriously much less ruminate on it.

In one way a little opposition keeps this place active and moving. Eventually the condescending and arrogant either relax and start to converse or leave when no one takes their crap or listens to them anymore

so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

Within the context of this website, I think people use the term "freedom" to mean they are no longer subject to the whims, dictates and oppression of The Way.

It is also used in the Politics forum by those whose party is out of power who always insist that it is being taken away :)

Edited November 17, 2009 by mstar1

[brainfixed]

I don't particularly like it either but then again you are always free not to listen to it, read it or take it to heart.

There are annoyances and weirdos almost everywhere you go but nobody is forcing anyone to take the control freaks seriously much less ruminate on it.

In one way a little opposition keeps this place active and moving. Eventually the condescending and arrogant either relax and start to converse or leave when no one takes their crap or listens to them anymore

It is also used in the Politics forum by those whose party is out of power who always insist that it is being taken away :)

i think this is what i was trying to figure out in my head and couldn't get it screwed down into the words that would make sense to me so well as you just did. thanks!

ham, i looked at the gallery pictures of a couple of the weenie roasts past and they looked like camping trips and i am not a camping trip type of person in any way at all, and i'm not the type of person to meet people off the internet either especially people that the only thing i have in common with them is they were in the same cult i was in, but that means i just haven't gotten to know anybody here beyond that, so anyway i'm just saying it wouldn't be this year or next year for me anyway, but thanks for the suggestion.

jeffsjo yes i like being able to disagree especially with people that were in the way international because it's like getting do-overs for all the times i wasn't allowed to disagree.

lol chockfull.

yes waysider i think you and i agree.

[Bolshevik]

on another discussion somebody said "Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else." and it got me thinking that this isn't real life at all unless you're so rich or so poor it doesn't matter or retired or in some other way not tied to a job and a mortgage and a car payment and insurance premiums and relatives and a whole lot of other things that may or may not particularly make you happy but they are what you do to get you by for awhile until you can get to where you're happy for a minute or two. and anyway why is being happy the goal? isn't happiness fleeting? maybe i don't get happiness. but back on the subject.

but the whole point was that if you don't like hanging out with who you're hanging out with, and if you don't like the game you're playing at the moment, then find other players and play a different game, or even make the current game better in some way, but don't complain if you stick around doing something you don't like doing with people you don't like doing it with.

well that sort of is real life if you're talking about only the games and not the other things that go on in real life like jobs and grocery shopping and doctor's appointments and driving in traffic and waiting in line at the motor vehicle department or even trying to get out of the drive through line at a fast food place when it isn't so fast or living in an apartment complex. i mean if all we're going to talk about is socializing, then yes maybe you have to play only with those you play well with and that like you and you like them and they agree with you and everything is nicey nice and la ti da and hip hip hooray like on the good old playground. maybe. but life isn't one big social event where everybody gets to pick and choose their daily activities and the people they will be interacting with.

and how does this all apply to being here at the greasespot cafe anyway? well because being here is like going to the emergency room or the doctor's for me, and i can only speak for me because i'm the only head i can get inside of so what else can i do? and when i go to the doctor's office or the emergency room there are all sorts of different people there that maybe i like them and maybe i don't, and maybe they're decent people that i'd like to get to know outside of the waiting rooms, and maybe they're under arrest and in the er because they just had a shoot-out with the cops, and maybe they're hypochondriacs and they're in the doctor's office a thousand times a week and take up the doctor's time to the point that they bully all the other patients, the nurses and the doctor so that nobody is getting what they really need, and maybe they just don't feel good and they're not in the mood or presence of mind to deal with me or anybody else at the moment.

and that's what i feel like around here, that there are people coming here and i don't know why they're here and what brought them here and maybe they don't even know for sure, but nobody thinks it's because we're all one big happy family and nothing's wrong. or do they? maybe that's what i'm not getting. but i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to be able get into people's faces, to bully people, to tell people how to live their lives, to be condescending and arrogant. and i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to try to keep people from speaking their minds so long as when they're doing that speaking it doesn't fall in those last things i mentioned. so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

Nothing is free, all has a cost. Is freedom even real?

"Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else." - The people who say this are usually the same one's who make sure you don't go do something else (in the context of twi). You can't just walk away from twi, they will always find you. This just means you have to put more time and effort into keeping them at bay. Time and energy are a cost.

everyone is a manipulator and being manipulated, bullying is just one form, their is no freedom.

[Jim]

Nothing is free, all has a cost. Is freedom even real?

"You're gonna have to serve somebody"

My take on the matter is that you can be relatively free after you've left home and before you settle down with a mate, a house and a kid. Make those commitments and they stay with you in one form or another, good or bad, for the rest of your life. We are also bound by our economic position in society, our health, and our ethical and moral commitments to our friends and neighbors. Build up your own business to be financially free and you find an even greater web of obligations to employees, suppliers and customers. Grow old and you loose the ability to choose a different career path. I'm sure someone will argue about the last one, but it is certainly true of some career paths I might have chosen.

I think it's important to know the types of freedoms that are important to you and protect them.

See my sig.

[mstar1]

My take on the matter is that you can be relatively free after you've left home and before you settle down with a mate, a house and a kid. Make those commitments and they stay with you in one form or another, good or bad, for the rest of your life. We are also bound by our economic position in society, our health, and our ethical and moral commitments to our friends and neighbors. Build up your own business to be financially free and you find an even greater web of obligations to employees, suppliers and customers. Grow old and you loose the ability to choose a different career path. I'm sure someone will argue about the last one, but it is certainly true of some career paths I might have chosen.

I think it's important to know the types of freedoms that are important to you and protect them.

Well said, I wholeheartedly agree especially with your last statement. Some paths do lead to a greater sense of freedom than others but there are also many benefits to the obligations that you mentioned.

IMO everyone needs to find the balance that works for them and make thoughtful and reflective decisions BEFORE they find themselves in over their head.

In my book that is a very uncomfortable place to be and a cause for all sorts of misery. In my experience its difficult to extricate yourself from thigs once you are in them as well.

Ive always tended toward living simply with obligations that are things that I want to do, are doable and not overwhelming but all too often it still gets complex.

In an old shop that I worked in there was a sign above the door that read "Constant Vigilance is the Price of Liberty". Its a little dramatic but true--you have to constantly stay on your toes or any freedom you do have can be wisked away in no time by demands placed on you that sometimes-ofttimes dont really need to be there

[T-Bone]

"You're gonna have to serve somebody"

My take on the matter is that you can be relatively free after you've left home and before you settle down with a mate, a house and a kid. Make those commitments and they stay with you in one form or another, good or bad, for the rest of your life. We are also bound by our economic position in society, our health, and our ethical and moral commitments to our friends and neighbors. Build up your own business to be financially free and you find an even greater web of obligations to employees, suppliers and customers. Grow old and you loose the ability to choose a different career path. I'm sure someone will argue about the last one, but it is certainly true of some career paths I might have chosen.

I think it's important to know the types of freedoms that are important to you and protect them.

See my sig.

Great post Jim! Well said. You reminded me that though we have the freedom to make choices we should give them some thought as we may become bound to them for awhile. I believe our ability to think and make choices may be one of our most important freedoms and worthy of our utmost protection. Check out my sig too.

Edited November 27, 2009 by T-Bone

[excathedra]

for me personally, freedom here does not work

[GrouchoMarxJr]

for me personally, freedom here does not work

I'm not sure I understand what you mean...Nobody interferes with my freedom. There may be social restrictions that keeps me from doing everything that I would like to do but true freedom is within your mind...

...At this point in my life, I really don't care what other people think...

As far as the "bullies" at Greasespot...give me a break! A lot of folks here speak their minds and I appreciate that. There's room for disagreement here...I enjoy the fact that we can disagree...who wants to be "likeminded" anyway?...not me.

[kimberly]

Not here on this site, but I am just about sick and tired of hearing folks rant it is their freedom to do this, freedom to do that, say this, say that....some folks want to justify their actions and whatever comes out of their mouth by claiming freedom. Yet, they forget about responsibility. To little ole me freedom and responsibilty go hand in hand. I dare say responsibility comes first.

I also think duty is underrated and seems to be forgotten by many.

[Shellon]

Yup and wouldn't any place, cyber or otherwise, be damn boring if it never changed, got better, improved?

Greasespot Cafe serves many purposes to many people and no two the same, I dare hope. But if, after hanging out at some place like this, there is no change, no expectation of change, no desire for change and better, then isn't that just boredom and doing the same things over and over and yet expecting something else to happen?

I think that as individuals grow and lives change, ones needs in that life change. For me, personally, as I've said around here too many times, GSC was at first a place for me to find others who got it, as well as provide a place for my husband's family to find me if they so wished. One of those reasons worked out fine. While the other didn't at least I came to a place where my needs and focus changed; I could no longer wait and wonder and wish.

Why we might expect or anticipate the admin of this site to read our minds or why we might hope others will continue to validate our needs is a mystery and not reality.

I think we've come to understand in this life that if we want something changed, we have to be that change, we have to speak up, we have to express our needs and do something about it.

Hoping anyone has a crystal ball is futile at best.