Yeah, actually, I do; but it may not be what you wanted.
From 1982-1990 we lived in Charleston, SC. I worked at a hospital downtown as a transcriptionist in the Radiology Department. I had run out to a drive-through to get lunch, and when I re-entered the hospital, I heard a "Code Blue" being called, in the front of the Ashley Avenue entrance, first floor, next to the cafeteria. Great. Right outside my office door.
I walked back there, biggie diet drink in hand, and three or four people were clustered around an older woman who was flat on her back on the floor. They looked at her. I looked at her and at them. She definitely was not breathing.
The head of the dietary department was standing there. She stared at me and said loudly "Anyone who does not know how to help this woman needs to leave RIGHT NOW."
Well, I didn't know why SHE was standing around with her head up her behind.
I walked over to the woman, stared intently at her face and silently spoke in tongues and thanked God for healing her and getting her breathing again. In the Name of Jesus Christ!
And she gasped, opened her eyes and LOOKED RIGHT AT ME!
About that time the "first responders" came around the corner, in no big hurry. The woman kept looking me. "You'll be fine." I said and they carted her away.
I turned around to find the Dietary Nazi had knocked over the drink I'd set down on a cart of some kind. It didn't matter, not after that.
I have no idea the final outcome. I just know she wasn't breathing when I got there and she was conscious when they took her around to the ER.
Yeah, actually, I do; but it may not be what you wanted.
Oh, I'm not sure there was anything specific I wanted. It's just a subject I haven't seen addressed very much here so I thought I would toss it up in the air and see where it landed.
In 1982 I was 23 years old and found a lump in my breast. My family history was full of breast cancer and I was mighty scared. Long story shortened, I was ministered to by my friend that got into the way with me. Went back to the doctor for a second opinion and when he compared the films from the before and after being prayed for he said this didn't even look like the same breast!!!
I'm 50 now and still nobody's had to remove anything from my breasts. Thank you, God!
I remember being one of the few AC grads in the area and having people ask me to "minister" to them. (Only AC grads were supposed to "minister".) It got kinda weird sometimes. You could be in the middle of the shopping mall, when some believer would spot you and want you to "minister" to them right there in front of the wishing fountain. It was awkward, to say the least. Plus, what were you supposed to do when there was no great "revelation" smacking you upside the head? And what about all the times the shoe was on the other foot? Were they just making stuff up like you did for them?
I remember some guy "ministering" to me and thanking God for healing me from some obscure thing or another. When I told him I didn't have such a problem, he said, "Of course not, I just 'ministered' to you." :blink:
A year or two ago a greasespotter started calling me on the phone regularly. They were very excited about having a prayer partner and I wasn't opposed to it, was enjoying their company quite a bit and still believed in prayer and God and Jesus. But I hadn't really been to church much and hadn't been studying my bible - almost never since being kicked out of the cult.
They asked me to pray with them and they did all the praying for a while. I'd listen intently and SIT in my head while they prayed out loud over the phone and when I knew they were done I'd say 'Amen'. One day they asked me to pray for them and just tell them whatever came to my mind. They had a specific question they were praying for an answer from God about. They said to me to just say whatever came to my mind, like in the old twi days. I was rather hesitant and I kinda stammered out what came to mind. It was NOT what they wanted to hear, but they said that they were sure I was 100% right on, that was what God wanted them to hear and that they had asked God to reveal to me what they needed to know in this situation.
Since then they've asked me to pray numerous times - would simply ask me to pray and I would pray for whatever came to mind. They said each time that I hit it right on the head and they felt relief from what ailed 'em if it was a physical thing.
I understand that healings were commonplace in the 70 and 80. I am inspired to read some of the posts above because I believe their account. I believe that God and Jesus do heal and that those that believe on Jesus can do the same works he did and greater works. I believe the bible, just not the TWI version.
Personally, I think all the martindale legalism killed it. HQ is full of sick people now. You would be hard pressed to find healings and miracles. Not that they don't happen. God is God and he is into healing his people. But the legalism and lack of love has made this type of thing virtually non-existent. Plus, there are those who would imply that if you are sick then you need to get your believing up because the word says you are already healed. You just need to keep on confessing the sickness away. I have not known one person to get healed by their own efforts such as I describe. I have known several sick people who expressed extreme disappointment and self-condemnation because they had been confessing their healing for a long time and were still diseased.
Nope, they count it a great move of God when they find the right doctor and it's all about what God has given us in medicine and how he has even given us programs to participate in so we can stay debt free. You see, wages for working on staff are so low that you can still qualify for medicaid and other insurance for the poor. You have something big, you run your insurance out, enroll in medicaid, etc. then thank God for all he has done for you. Really, it's a sad state of affairs and way short of what the bible says healings and miracles really are and how they are administered.
When I was in the hospital in St. Mary's during ROA 1994 because I had newly diagnosed insulin dependent diabetes, about a dozen and a half friends came to see me. Most of them were at least advanced class grads, and many were WC. Do you how many of them offered to minister to me?
0. Zip. Zilch.
In the 1970's I would have been hard put to keep their ministering hands off me! But LCM pretty well squelched that sort of thing with his teaching that if you were sick it was some sin you had committed that God was kicking your butt for.
But LCM pretty well squelched that sort of thing with his teaching that if you were sick it was some sin you had committed that God was kicking your butt for.
My God, is that horrible or what. That is just evil.
Everyone is waiting for the green light. The damn green light is in the bible already.
I think it must have been 1973 or '74, at ROA, immediately following the main teaching on closing night, VPW announced there was going to be a mass-healing service. Anyone wanting/needing to be "ministered to" was to come down to the front of the stage. All AC grads were told to come down front and team up with someone so they could "minister" to them. It completely took me off guard. I wasn't about to be a part of it unless God told me to. (Remember the teaching about "God told me to tell you"?) So, I stayed back. After it was over, the second guessing and guilt set in. (ie: Maybe God had told me to be a part of it and I wasn't listening. Maybe someone's life depended on me stepping forth on my "believing".) Do you know how long I carried that guilt with me? I carried it until I came here and got a glimpse of what The Way was REALLY all about.
I think it must have been 1973 or '74, at ROA, immediately following the main teaching on closing night, VPW announced there was going to be a mass-healing service. Anyone wanting/needing to be "ministered to" was to come down to the front of the stage. All AC grads were told to come down front and team up with someone so they could "minister" to them. It completely took me off guard. I wasn't about to be a part of it unless God told me to. (Remember the teaching about "God told me to tell you"?) So, I stayed back. After it was over, the second guessing and guilt set in. (ie: Maybe God had told me to be a part of it and I wasn't listening. Maybe someone's life depended on me stepping forth on my "believing".) Do you know how long I carried that guilt with me? I carried it until I came here and got a glimpse of what The Way was REALLY all about.
The law of believing teachings do nothing more than bind people in a cycle of will worship that results in deep seated self condemnation. I know because I am still dealing with the effects.
I was pretty good at that because I wanted to be. I practiced every chance I got. It didn't take too long until word got around and people would come to me whom I really didn't know all that well. I began to learn that when somebody trusts you to do that for them, you had a responsibility to protect their hearts and be sure that you never told anybody what you prayed for.....some people get very snoopy!!!
Sometimes it somebody asked me to minister to them, they really weren't sick, they just needed praying for. Maybe they needed a little confidence, or just some TLC even though I didn't have any specific revelation I could always pray for their well being, strong spiritual hearts or other generic things but the individual felt cared for....because he was.
God showed me and I did some pretty remarkable things because of that. I doubt I'll discuss these things here and now because lately too many people think these things were made up. They came to twi after the abundance of these kinds of healings had started waning and many think that we all made it up. I know for sure that some of it was marginally made up but most of it was genuine....but I don't want to fight about it.
I did have a long standing running battle with a Corps person. Since I wasn't Corps, I asked a question about something. She kept saying God wouldn't show you something if you didn't know what it meant. But I knew I "saw" something but didn't understand it. It was several months later I finally did understand it and then I knew that Father was teaching me....showed me something, then added a few things to it to the point where I did get it. The way that God worked with her was not the way He worked with me.....case closed.
I still have the same ability, but nobody asks anymore because few people believe it. Somebody just before said if you were ill it was because of your own faulty believing......and so nobody would ask for ministering....who wants to admit faulty believing. Also, all the "smoke your sorry foot out" (in the case of the homo purge) and everybody going 2 by 2....caused everybody to spy on one another or think they were being spyed on. There was little or no genuine love for your fellow believers and very little tenderness. That's another reason that ministering healing fell away IMHO.
I wasn't sure what I was looking for when I started this thread.
You seem to have zeroed in on it.
It's not so much about healing as it is about the TWI practice we all referred to as "ministering". Lots of times, all you did was offer up a generic kind of prayer for them. And, there was an element of compassion that accompanied the "ministering" event. It was a source of comfort, if nothing else.
Yes, but at other times, there were real things to take care of! Heal ligaments torn off the back of a shoulder during a waitress's shift. And/or other things, restore fellowship or get rid of condemnation. It was a large multifaceted package.
"Father, thank you for renewing this man's fellowship."
I never knew "intercession" was in our job description. <_<
I'm not sure it is either, although reconciliation is. It does emphasize a point long forgotten in all the flesh perfecting that has taken over TWI since Lord Craig was installed. God and the Lord Jesus never care how goofy some of us are/were - they loved and healed. They are still willing to do the same. No doubt that there are some hoakie things that some have fabricated or embellished. I have talked to way too many people with first had accounts of being involved in miracles/healings etc. I believe many of the accounts.
The post above about the way corps dogging her is symptomatic of what happened. Craig's legalism and him purging many, many good people left the way corps leaving the ranks full of mini-craigs. I think the end result is all too clear.
You have to wonder, too, how many people needlessly suffered or even died because they opted for "believing & ministering" rather than seeking appropriate mental or physical treatment.
You have to wonder, too, how many people needlessly suffered or even died because they opted for "believing & ministering" rather than seeking appropriate mental or physical treatment.
That sort of thing is kind of foolish. Get ministered to, or whatever you wanna call, it and get yourself checked out to be sure all is fine. That law of believing stuff of get your believing up is very dangerous to people when applied to on going health situations. To me it would seem common sense to follow up with physicians as needed. For all we know healings in the bible had physician follow up at times. One could almost infer this where the woman with the issue of blood had spent all she had with doctors and they couldn't do anything for her. She was healed. But perhaps she followed up with her Dr.s afterwards. Maybe she didn't. Point is you could make an argument either way.
That sort of thing is kind of foolish. Get ministered to, or whatever you wanna call, it and get yourself checked out to be sure all is fine. That law of believing stuff of get your believing up is very dangerous to people when applied to on going health situations.
Of course it's foolish. But, back in the 70's, if you got "ministered to" and then went to a Dr., it sent a loud message that you didn't really "believe" in "ministering", that you had spiritual weakness. If you went to a Dr., you had to keep it quiet so no one would suspect your weakness. The very act of getting ministered to was perceived as stepping out on your believing. It's one of those unspoken kind of things that were so prevalent at that time. After someone threw away their meds and died, in about 1974, Wierwille used the main stage at ROA to put a major spin on it and launched a damage control effort. I'm sure he realized the legal liabilities that were at stake.
I witnessed an incident where a person missing a limb was witnessed to and brought into the twig family. They were told that if they would just take the class, they could learn how to get their believing up so they could then get ministered to and have their limb restored. Now, I realize some may say, "With God, all things are possible." This person was seen as a trophy. Yeah, if The Way could pull this one off, people would be begging to sign the green card. In retrospect, it was sheer cruelty. Once it became apparent that the person wasn't going to be taking the class (due to strong opposition from their family) the person was dropped like a hot potato. It was all part of VPW's drive to push PFAL sales figures up.
There were way too many evils planned and carried out just to suck money out of a neophyte and lure him/her into that class and future tortuous hours of "who shot john". The class! The class! And nothing but the class!! Too much emphasis was placed on money and not enough on people.
I saw LCM act like he was listening to God a lunch one day and "ministered" to someone on Staff with cancer. No healing happened. When I recollect on that day, it seemed like a show with snake oil.
I knew of someone else on Staff who dealt with breast cancer. They had to deal with leader.... condemning them for not believing, and the hair loss. They were left alone to deal with it themselves without any help from the so-called houseold of God. So much for the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in and TO the household. What a bunch of hypocrites!!
We are so better off out of TWI! My life has increased in joy 100 fold since leaving.
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coolchef
waysider
i remember a good one
while at away family camp in the poccones my ex wife minestered to a blin guy.he was healed and got up and walked into a tree lol
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Watered Garden
Yeah, actually, I do; but it may not be what you wanted.
From 1982-1990 we lived in Charleston, SC. I worked at a hospital downtown as a transcriptionist in the Radiology Department. I had run out to a drive-through to get lunch, and when I re-entered the hospital, I heard a "Code Blue" being called, in the front of the Ashley Avenue entrance, first floor, next to the cafeteria. Great. Right outside my office door.
I walked back there, biggie diet drink in hand, and three or four people were clustered around an older woman who was flat on her back on the floor. They looked at her. I looked at her and at them. She definitely was not breathing.
The head of the dietary department was standing there. She stared at me and said loudly "Anyone who does not know how to help this woman needs to leave RIGHT NOW."
Well, I didn't know why SHE was standing around with her head up her behind.
I walked over to the woman, stared intently at her face and silently spoke in tongues and thanked God for healing her and getting her breathing again. In the Name of Jesus Christ!
And she gasped, opened her eyes and LOOKED RIGHT AT ME!
About that time the "first responders" came around the corner, in no big hurry. The woman kept looking me. "You'll be fine." I said and they carted her away.
I turned around to find the Dietary Nazi had knocked over the drink I'd set down on a cart of some kind. It didn't matter, not after that.
I have no idea the final outcome. I just know she wasn't breathing when I got there and she was conscious when they took her around to the ER.
WG
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waysider
Oh, I'm not sure there was anything specific I wanted. It's just a subject I haven't seen addressed very much here so I thought I would toss it up in the air and see where it landed.
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bowtwi
In 1982 I was 23 years old and found a lump in my breast. My family history was full of breast cancer and I was mighty scared. Long story shortened, I was ministered to by my friend that got into the way with me. Went back to the doctor for a second opinion and when he compared the films from the before and after being prayed for he said this didn't even look like the same breast!!!
I'm 50 now and still nobody's had to remove anything from my breasts. Thank you, God!
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waysider
I remember being one of the few AC grads in the area and having people ask me to "minister" to them. (Only AC grads were supposed to "minister".) It got kinda weird sometimes. You could be in the middle of the shopping mall, when some believer would spot you and want you to "minister" to them right there in front of the wishing fountain. It was awkward, to say the least. Plus, what were you supposed to do when there was no great "revelation" smacking you upside the head? And what about all the times the shoe was on the other foot? Were they just making stuff up like you did for them?
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waysider
I remember some guy "ministering" to me and thanking God for healing me from some obscure thing or another. When I told him I didn't have such a problem, he said, "Of course not, I just 'ministered' to you." :blink:
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bowtwi
A year or two ago a greasespotter started calling me on the phone regularly. They were very excited about having a prayer partner and I wasn't opposed to it, was enjoying their company quite a bit and still believed in prayer and God and Jesus. But I hadn't really been to church much and hadn't been studying my bible - almost never since being kicked out of the cult.
They asked me to pray with them and they did all the praying for a while. I'd listen intently and SIT in my head while they prayed out loud over the phone and when I knew they were done I'd say 'Amen'. One day they asked me to pray for them and just tell them whatever came to my mind. They had a specific question they were praying for an answer from God about. They said to me to just say whatever came to my mind, like in the old twi days. I was rather hesitant and I kinda stammered out what came to mind. It was NOT what they wanted to hear, but they said that they were sure I was 100% right on, that was what God wanted them to hear and that they had asked God to reveal to me what they needed to know in this situation.
Since then they've asked me to pray numerous times - would simply ask me to pray and I would pray for whatever came to mind. They said each time that I hit it right on the head and they felt relief from what ailed 'em if it was a physical thing.
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OldSkool
I understand that healings were commonplace in the 70 and 80. I am inspired to read some of the posts above because I believe their account. I believe that God and Jesus do heal and that those that believe on Jesus can do the same works he did and greater works. I believe the bible, just not the TWI version.
Personally, I think all the martindale legalism killed it. HQ is full of sick people now. You would be hard pressed to find healings and miracles. Not that they don't happen. God is God and he is into healing his people. But the legalism and lack of love has made this type of thing virtually non-existent. Plus, there are those who would imply that if you are sick then you need to get your believing up because the word says you are already healed. You just need to keep on confessing the sickness away. I have not known one person to get healed by their own efforts such as I describe. I have known several sick people who expressed extreme disappointment and self-condemnation because they had been confessing their healing for a long time and were still diseased.
Nope, they count it a great move of God when they find the right doctor and it's all about what God has given us in medicine and how he has even given us programs to participate in so we can stay debt free. You see, wages for working on staff are so low that you can still qualify for medicaid and other insurance for the poor. You have something big, you run your insurance out, enroll in medicaid, etc. then thank God for all he has done for you. Really, it's a sad state of affairs and way short of what the bible says healings and miracles really are and how they are administered.
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Watered Garden
When I was in the hospital in St. Mary's during ROA 1994 because I had newly diagnosed insulin dependent diabetes, about a dozen and a half friends came to see me. Most of them were at least advanced class grads, and many were WC. Do you how many of them offered to minister to me?
0. Zip. Zilch.
In the 1970's I would have been hard put to keep their ministering hands off me! But LCM pretty well squelched that sort of thing with his teaching that if you were sick it was some sin you had committed that God was kicking your butt for.
WG
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OldSkool
My God, is that horrible or what. That is just evil.
Everyone is waiting for the green light. The damn green light is in the bible already.
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waysider
I think it must have been 1973 or '74, at ROA, immediately following the main teaching on closing night, VPW announced there was going to be a mass-healing service. Anyone wanting/needing to be "ministered to" was to come down to the front of the stage. All AC grads were told to come down front and team up with someone so they could "minister" to them. It completely took me off guard. I wasn't about to be a part of it unless God told me to. (Remember the teaching about "God told me to tell you"?) So, I stayed back. After it was over, the second guessing and guilt set in. (ie: Maybe God had told me to be a part of it and I wasn't listening. Maybe someone's life depended on me stepping forth on my "believing".) Do you know how long I carried that guilt with me? I carried it until I came here and got a glimpse of what The Way was REALLY all about.
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OldSkool
The law of believing teachings do nothing more than bind people in a cycle of will worship that results in deep seated self condemnation. I know because I am still dealing with the effects.
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krys
I was pretty good at that because I wanted to be. I practiced every chance I got. It didn't take too long until word got around and people would come to me whom I really didn't know all that well. I began to learn that when somebody trusts you to do that for them, you had a responsibility to protect their hearts and be sure that you never told anybody what you prayed for.....some people get very snoopy!!!
Sometimes it somebody asked me to minister to them, they really weren't sick, they just needed praying for. Maybe they needed a little confidence, or just some TLC even though I didn't have any specific revelation I could always pray for their well being, strong spiritual hearts or other generic things but the individual felt cared for....because he was.
God showed me and I did some pretty remarkable things because of that. I doubt I'll discuss these things here and now because lately too many people think these things were made up. They came to twi after the abundance of these kinds of healings had started waning and many think that we all made it up. I know for sure that some of it was marginally made up but most of it was genuine....but I don't want to fight about it.
I did have a long standing running battle with a Corps person. Since I wasn't Corps, I asked a question about something. She kept saying God wouldn't show you something if you didn't know what it meant. But I knew I "saw" something but didn't understand it. It was several months later I finally did understand it and then I knew that Father was teaching me....showed me something, then added a few things to it to the point where I did get it. The way that God worked with her was not the way He worked with me.....case closed.
I still have the same ability, but nobody asks anymore because few people believe it. Somebody just before said if you were ill it was because of your own faulty believing......and so nobody would ask for ministering....who wants to admit faulty believing. Also, all the "smoke your sorry foot out" (in the case of the homo purge) and everybody going 2 by 2....caused everybody to spy on one another or think they were being spyed on. There was little or no genuine love for your fellow believers and very little tenderness. That's another reason that ministering healing fell away IMHO.
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waysider
Thanks, Krys
I wasn't sure what I was looking for when I started this thread.
You seem to have zeroed in on it.
It's not so much about healing as it is about the TWI practice we all referred to as "ministering". Lots of times, all you did was offer up a generic kind of prayer for them. And, there was an element of compassion that accompanied the "ministering" event. It was a source of comfort, if nothing else.
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krys
Yes, but at other times, there were real things to take care of! Heal ligaments torn off the back of a shoulder during a waitress's shift. And/or other things, restore fellowship or get rid of condemnation. It was a large multifaceted package.
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waysider
Now THIS one used to bug me.
"Father, thank you for renewing this man's fellowship."
I never knew "intercession" was in our job description. <_<
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OldSkool
I'm not sure it is either, although reconciliation is. It does emphasize a point long forgotten in all the flesh perfecting that has taken over TWI since Lord Craig was installed. God and the Lord Jesus never care how goofy some of us are/were - they loved and healed. They are still willing to do the same. No doubt that there are some hoakie things that some have fabricated or embellished. I have talked to way too many people with first had accounts of being involved in miracles/healings etc. I believe many of the accounts.
The post above about the way corps dogging her is symptomatic of what happened. Craig's legalism and him purging many, many good people left the way corps leaving the ranks full of mini-craigs. I think the end result is all too clear.
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waysider
You have to wonder, too, how many people needlessly suffered or even died because they opted for "believing & ministering" rather than seeking appropriate mental or physical treatment.
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Shellon
So much too many !
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OldSkool
That sort of thing is kind of foolish. Get ministered to, or whatever you wanna call, it and get yourself checked out to be sure all is fine. That law of believing stuff of get your believing up is very dangerous to people when applied to on going health situations. To me it would seem common sense to follow up with physicians as needed. For all we know healings in the bible had physician follow up at times. One could almost infer this where the woman with the issue of blood had spent all she had with doctors and they couldn't do anything for her. She was healed. But perhaps she followed up with her Dr.s afterwards. Maybe she didn't. Point is you could make an argument either way.
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waysider
Of course it's foolish. But, back in the 70's, if you got "ministered to" and then went to a Dr., it sent a loud message that you didn't really "believe" in "ministering", that you had spiritual weakness. If you went to a Dr., you had to keep it quiet so no one would suspect your weakness. The very act of getting ministered to was perceived as stepping out on your believing. It's one of those unspoken kind of things that were so prevalent at that time. After someone threw away their meds and died, in about 1974, Wierwille used the main stage at ROA to put a major spin on it and launched a damage control effort. I'm sure he realized the legal liabilities that were at stake.
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waysider
How about this one:
I witnessed an incident where a person missing a limb was witnessed to and brought into the twig family. They were told that if they would just take the class, they could learn how to get their believing up so they could then get ministered to and have their limb restored. Now, I realize some may say, "With God, all things are possible." This person was seen as a trophy. Yeah, if The Way could pull this one off, people would be begging to sign the green card. In retrospect, it was sheer cruelty. Once it became apparent that the person wasn't going to be taking the class (due to strong opposition from their family) the person was dropped like a hot potato. It was all part of VPW's drive to push PFAL sales figures up.
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krys
There were way too many evils planned and carried out just to suck money out of a neophyte and lure him/her into that class and future tortuous hours of "who shot john". The class! The class! And nothing but the class!! Too much emphasis was placed on money and not enough on people.
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Nottawayfer
I saw LCM act like he was listening to God a lunch one day and "ministered" to someone on Staff with cancer. No healing happened. When I recollect on that day, it seemed like a show with snake oil.
I knew of someone else on Staff who dealt with breast cancer. They had to deal with leader.... condemning them for not believing, and the hair loss. They were left alone to deal with it themselves without any help from the so-called houseold of God. So much for the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in and TO the household. What a bunch of hypocrites!!
We are so better off out of TWI! My life has increased in joy 100 fold since leaving.
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