about the way indeed

[doojable]

sometimes when i write things here i write so many things that what i'm trying to say gets lost in what i'm writing because i have so many things i want to say running around in my brain at the same time and i think i want to look at this very first thing said on this discussion and see some things again.

"i talked to someone today who was in for almost 30 years and out less than five"

that's a pretty big statement when i stop to think about it because that means the person was probably in for the majority of their adult lives or even all but 5 years of their adult lives. can anybody imagine what that means? if it hadn't been for school or my other parent i wouldn't have known what the outside world was like at all because tv and newspapers and unbelievers were not allowed my one parent's home or discussions or life. i knew kids that didn't go to school and were "tutored" at home and they had no clue about things like who was the president of the united states or even big bird (sesame street was full of devil spirits, does anybody remember that?). i can't imagine what it would be like for somebody to spend most of their adult lives in the way international and suddenly find themselves cut lose from that and out in the real world and not under the "umbrella of protection". it must be insane for them to function among people that don't obey leadership or jump to commands of other people or answer to others about their every minute of every day scheduling. the very idea of what to do with the suddenly found free time is probably scary as hell, but having fear surely must be proof they made a bad, bad decision, isn't it? but there's nobody there to tell them one way or the other.

"why do we think others are where we are ?"

that's a valid question for here because i felt and still feel that expectation often if i say things that don't quite "fit in" here.

"and even if they don't please us (or "line up with us") in their particular place in their path, why doesn't compassion rule ?"

well? it's a valid question. it has nothing to do with "meeting needs" and it has nothing to do with "the purpose of this site" and it has nothing to do with anything but is just a valid question in my opinion, and it is particularly valid considering that totally compassionless cult called the way international we all came from.

It's entirely possible that the person in question got "in" when they were 18, spent 30 years in (til he/she was 48) and now, nearly 5 years later, is 53. It makes little difference. My point is that it's very easy to "project" our feelings and situations onto someone else.

BUT - if that's the case (that the person is now 53) then all the following scenarios you stated don't apply.

On the point of compassion - sometimes (note that I said sometimes) the most compassionate thing you can do is give someone a verbal slap in the face to wake them out of their stupor.

I think the reason the mission of the site keeps getting repeated is that this has never been put forth as a place to heal Granted, people have found healing but only through hearing and telling the other side of the story.

In my case, the only way I could find my own voice was to engage in the heated discussions. There was great freedom in expressing a differing opinion and having to defend it. I realize everyone has their own journey, but perhaps there is more than one person here that found their voice in the same manner I did.

Lots of conjecture. Lots of "what ifs" and "if onlys"...

[Shellon]

Ya know what strikes me in this? That we, as ex-cult individuals, say we (ok, me) want the truth about TWI, about the leaders who led us into stupid stuff, but do we really?

I mean, if someone comes along into GSC and says something like "LCM was amazingly wonderful" and someone says "you're fulla it, he sucked", isn't that the truth?

Could that have been framed more gently, sure ! But it's the truth, then it can at least be dealt with, honestly.

If someone asks a question, be ready for an anwer, else don't ask it. Maybe it is that simple.

I'm not going to approach an issue or question the same as you or you and thank God for that; how boring. I think the point is that we ARE approaching things and dealing with them and at least continuing to move in some direction of resolution, even if only for ourselves and understanding that it's ok to do that.

[brainfixed]

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really?

because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines.

and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here.

boy do i feel duped all over again.

[excathedra]

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really?

because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines.

and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here.

boy do i feel duped all over again.

OHMYFRIKKINGOD

[excathedra]

[waysider]

And you read your Emily Dickinson,

And I my Robert Frost,

And we note our place with bookmarkers

That measure what we've lost.

Like a poem poorly written

We are verses out of rhythm,

Couplets out of rhyme,

In syncopated time

Lost in the dangling conversation

And the superficial sighs,

Are the borders of our lives.

----Simon and Garfunkle

[doojable]

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really?

because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines.

and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here.

boy do i feel duped all over again.

Why do you feel duped?

Were you promised something if you posted here?

Did someone tell you about this site and say it had magical powers?

Or did you make a free will decision to read and post?

Just wondering... Not accusing at all - but you sound like you were somehow tricked into participating here.

[Tzaia]

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really?

because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines.

and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here.

boy do i feel duped all over again.

Did you have a rough day or something?

I really don't know how to help you other than to tell you my "take" on TWI and the people who involved themselves in the organization. Most of us became involved with the best of intentions. We didn't plan to hand over our lives to a few sick fuks and some are very angry that it happened and what that has made their lives look like.

Whether a person finds their voice here is largely determined by them.

[JeffSjo]

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really?

because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines.

and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here.

boy do i feel duped all over again.

I like this one!

People and relationships with them are a large part of life. If it wasn't for individuals and their own unique perspectives, yeah, shut the place down and simply archive the most relavent information!

But it wasn't information alone that helped me here. More than that it was people sharing their stories. It's one thing to read that Wierwille was a sexual predator, but the impact is entirely different when I hear somebody share that he abused her while she was still in college and that he used her history of abuse to manipulate her into sex.

Or when I here any others share their own personal experiences and the crapola they went through.

Or when I here of others who were broken as I was, or had to learn to keep on living after their families were broken as mine was.

The information is critical, but without the sharings, exchanges, the possibilities of friendships, and the possibility of actually helping other flesh and blood people I would have ditched this place long ago, even though I haven't been here nearly as long as many of you.

(added in editing)

Maybe circular arguments just need to be dealt with better. People can break the cycle...er...circle too, eh?

Edited November 24, 2009 by JeffSjo

[bowtwi]

snip-

Maybe circular arguments just need to be dealt with better. People can break the cycle...er...circle too, eh?

You betcha, dere, eh! And ooftah dere, too, hey!

[excathedra]

free will

rough day

magical powers

you're kidding me, right ?

[excathedra]

WERE YOU PROMISED SOMETHING ?

god, you people are really rough

[waysider]

Gee, I just stumbled in the door when I was looking for a replacement for my PFAL book.

(Ummmmmmm-----I'm not looking for one anymore.)

[excathedra]

TRICKED ?

JESUS

[excathedra]

some people here are so snooty and i-don't-know-what

have the nerve to justify it with logic

i won't even bother to go on

I think the reason the mission of the site keeps getting repeated is that this has never been put forth as a place to heal

damn, i just wanted to note that i concur

[waysider]

I guess you have to stop and figure out what "healing" means.

When I first came here, I had a lot of guilt. I felt like I was tripped out and failed God by leaving the household and all that kind of horse pucky. I don't feel that way anymore. Is that "healing"? I dunno. I think maybe it is in a sense, though.

[excathedra]

fine, i used to know what healing means

[waysider]

I think it means different things to different people. I wasn't looking for healing when I came here. Darned if I didn't find some anyhow.

[rascal]

Did you have a rough day or something?

I really don't know how to help you other than to tell you my "take" on TWI and the people who involved themselves in the organization. Most of us became involved with the best of intentions. We didn't plan to hand over our lives to a few sick fuks and some are very angry that it happened and what that has made their lives look like.

Whether a person finds their voice here is largely determined by them.

I think that this is well said tzaia.

We aren`t qualified to fix or heal one another, but like waysider said, be darned if I didn`t manage to find healing here.

Talking about what happened with other folks realizing that I was allowed to question, allowed to have a say in my life, in my marriage, in the raising of my kiddos...it was empowering. Without these discussional forums, I don`t know that I would have ever could have been able move on past the narrow confines of twi thinking.

[Tzaia]

We aren`t qualified to fix or heal one another, but like waysider said, be darned if I didn`t manage to find healing here.

Talking about what happened with other folks realizing that I was allowed to question, allowed to have a say in my life, in my marriage, in the raising of my kiddos...it was empowering. Without these discussional forums, I don`t know that I would have ever could have been able move on past the narrow confines of twi thinking.

amen.

[Tzaia]

free will

rough day

magical powers

you're kidding me, right ?

Yeah, rough day. As if you've never ever had one of those days where you've had a burr up your butt and ranted for no reason that anyone else can determine. You know - like the opening post of this thread. A few of us are trying to look past the rants and see what's going on behind the words.

[doojable]

some people here are so snooty and i-don't-know-what

have the nerve to justify it with logic

i won't even bother to go on

damn, i just wanted to note that i concur

So you think that there were promises made when you joined GSC?

I'm not sure who or what you're referring to as "snooty."

Justify what with logic?

Perhaps you should stick to your own words and let everyone else speak for themselves.

Edited November 25, 2009 by doojable

[chockfull]

has greasespot evolved so much that people here forget ?

you know, I don't think so, excie. I think people remember very well. I think all someone needs to do to "find their voice" is to keep posting here. It evens out over time. It's kind of human nature to attack that which is new and different and that does happen, especially if someone comes in swinging so to speak. Under a cruel system of religion like TWI, that happens a whole lot more, and many of us have experienced it. So here kind of in a reverse manner people react strongly to someone perceived as supporting TWI in some fashion.

sure we all could be more tolerant and less argumentative sometimes. but that kind of stuff goes in waves. people get in attack mode then in sympathy mode. they get out of it though. there's a lot more value here than just spouting off then running off.

[Ham]

If you haven't.. maybe you *really* need to go to a greasespot wienie roast..

you might learn an expression of.. #$%^@ %#$ that you never even dreamed of..

So fellas.. are there any roasts planned this year? I'd love to meet a few others..

[waysider]

Hmmmmmm---Wienie roast.

Never been to one, though I did meet up with ChattyKathy and her hubby for a day of blues music and pulled pork sandwiches a couple years ago. Don't know if that counts but it sure was a lot of fun.