about the way indeed

[RumRunner]

Perhaps, Rumrunner - - - you could provide some sort of proof of your statement I quoted from your post above??

You're making (imo) a fallacious statement that requires an apology to both Excie specifically, and GSC in general.

The ex-JW board that you mentioned that Excie is a member of (as I am also), is a "Members Only" board so if what you say is true,

you must be registered there too, eh? I've NEVER heard Excie mention ANYONE by their real name there, and neither have I done so.

I've yet ( and I've been a member of MoChat since it's inception) to hear Paw's real name name mentioned there on that site.

Yup - - - there's a bunch of us there that know it, but common courtesy rules there and those who do not give out their real name,

are never mentioned by their real name. When referring to posters there at MoChat, it's a given that it's the screen name is used;

and NOT a person's real name.

So like I said - - - Put up, or Shut up. You, RumRunner (if you are a member of the MoChat site) will have access to it,

unlike any others here who are not. Please provide a screen shot of the posts she made naming Paw by his real name.

If you can't do that - - - then your allegations are just so much smoke out of your @$. I'll chalk it up to Global Warming.

If you can do so, I'll apologize. But as it stands - - - I think you made a personal attack on a poster here without validation.

Ain't a member, ain't got the time, ain't got the interest. But thanks for standing up for her. She's been through a lot.

[dmiller]

Ain't a member, ain't got the time, ain't got the interest. But thanks for standing up for her. She's been through a lot.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. If you're not a member of the MoChat site (which is a member-only-viewing/posting-site),

then how-in-the-hell-can-you-say-that-she's-trashing-GSC-and-naming-Paw-by-name there??

You're a liar, or if you're running the rum (as your screen name suggests),

you've been imbibing your cargo while posting. You need to apologize for what you said. Period!

This is not a personal attack. It's an observation that you spoke TOO freely, and have NO validation for your accusations.

If you can't apologize for it, SHUT-THE-HELL-UP-ABOUT-THAT-WHICH-YOU-KNOW-NOT-THEREOF!!!

Sincerely yours;

David

[RumRunner]

Hmmmmmmmmmm. If you're not a member of the MoChat site (which is a member-only-viewing/posting-site),

then how-in-the-hell-can-you-say-that-she's-trashing-GSC-and-naming-Paw-by-name there??

You're a liar, or if you're running the rum (as your screen name suggests),

you've been imbibing your cargo while posting. You need to apologize for what you said. Period!

This is not a personal attack. It's an observation that you spoke TOO freely, and have NO validation for your accusations.

If you can't apologize for it, SHUT-THE-HELL-UP-ABOUT-THAT-WHICH-YOU-KNOW-NOT-THEREOF!!!

Sincerely yours;

David

Lighten up sweetie. The screen name comes from Robert Hunter who was a lyricist for the Grateful Dead and has nothing to do with imbibing rum. And since I understand you are quite the banjo player perhaps you might want to check into Robert Hunter and perhaps a couple of tunes from "Old and In the Way" which includes not only Garcia but Vassar Clemens, David Griswold and some other great bluegrass folk.

In any case,as I said before, thanks for sticking up for Excie. She's been through the mill.

Nighty night.

[Linda Z]

I withheld comment on RR's sarcastic post to excathedra because I was waiting, watching, to see if his usual pattern would emerge.

This time it starts with an unsubstantiated accusation and a mean-spirited zinger:

Excie - perhaps you should go back to the JW site where you have been trashing GSC as well as Pawtucket by his real name. It has not been missed by several here on GSC. Pawtucket gave you safe haven and you have endeavored to trash him on the net. Wanna buy a used motor coach too?

BTW, when this same accusation about "trashing Pawtucket" was leveled at two or three GSC posters some time ago, I registered on the JW site, read the posts there, and lurked for a while to see if it was true or a product of the GSC rumor mill. It wasn't true. Were there criticisms about how some things were handled on this site? Yes, but no one was "trashing" anyone or naming names.

Then someone calls him on his over-the-top remark:

That WAS more than a little harsh Rum, and not equal to your usual self.

HAP, you must have missed equally cruel cracks made by RR to excathedra in the past. This isn't new territory.

Next comes the feigned innocence with another not-so-subtle dig (in bold):

Uhhh harsh to whom? TWI? If so then yes it was harsh. I figured with all of Excie's posts about abuse that if anyone would grin about buying up that coach and setting it on fire she might be first on the list. As long as TWI is selling of property etc I think it might me a real gas to set the coach on fire and post vids on you tube.

If anyone on God's green earth thinks that the motor coach crack was made to make excathedra or anyone else "grin," I have some prime swamp land for sale. Call me.

And when someone asks for the accusation to be backed up with fact:

Perhaps, Rumrunner - - - you could provide some sort of proof of your statement I quoted from your post above?? You're making (imo) a fallacious statement that requires an apology to both Excie specifically, and GSC in general.

RR dodges that and responds with more sarcasm:

Ain't a member, ain't got the time, ain't got the interest. But thanks for standing up for her. She's been through a lot.

Quelle surprise! "I'm not going to back up what I said. I'd rather just fling out the rumor and, for good measure, follow it with another zinger." Again, if anyone thinks "She's been through a lot" was said in sincere empathy and wasn't just another sarcastic dig, I also have an old Ford Pinto for sale.

You're way too predictable, RR.

Maybe if RR is finished back-pedaling, we could get back to the topic at hand, which prompted a good discussion, IMO.

[bowtwi]

Linda - I'm impressed with most of your last post here and agree with most all of it. However, I have to say that since I was one person being trashed over there at that site a couple years ago back when IGotBagPipes started trashing paw and some others of us that I was shocked and stunned to see posters from here over there talking about paw by his real name and saying things that were really not only "not nice," but downright mean and untrue.

I have no screenshots for proof, but as I ended up emailing someone in an attempt to explain things he thought I shouldn't be doing, I received email copies of threads from someone who was registered over there.

It always stuns me and I would think I'd be immune to it now when I see people that have really benefited from this site throw temper tantrums, cause unsuspecting other posters to "take sides" and then leave in a huff only to return at some future time and stir up more poop. And somehow it seems worse when it's aimed at paw.

[Linda Z]

Bow, there might have been trashing going on over there by some people that I didn't see because it happened before or after I looked at the posts and lurked there. My point was that when RR was called out for leveling this accusation against excathedra without substantiation, not only did he offer no proof, but it turns out he's not even registered on the site so he couldn't have seen what he accused her of for himself.

As far as Paw getting trashed on the JW site, or anywhere, it's pretty obvious to me that anyone who runs an online discussion forum is going to be the object of criticism, some of it legitimate, some of it not. Misunderstandings happen. Mistakes happen. Anger flares. People feel wronged or get their feelings hurt, and they speak up. It sorta goes with the territory. Anyone who runs a site like this has to grow some thick skin, IMO. It's not fun, but it's not surprising.

What's trashing to some may be voicing legitimate beefs to others. We don't know all sides of every story, do we?

If you got spoken ill of on that site, I don't know why. I've never seen you do anything to warrant that.

It's just my opinion, but I think if people who once participated here and now choose not to or were kicked off (not saying anyone was...just saying if) want to criticize how this site is run, it's their right. Their criticisms may be correct sometimes and sometimes not, but it's a public forum and subject to public comment.

Some of this is a matter of perception. I'm sure people in twi look at all of us as people who "really benefited" from what they have to offer and are now "throwing temper tantrums" and "taking sides." I would disagree with that assessment, but it's how they view it.

Clearly, many people have benefited from GSC, myself included. But if some people feel they were treated unfairly here, or don't like some of the decisions that have been made, they're probably going to say so. I got some benefit out of my time in twi, too, but that doesn't mean I won't speak up about the parts that weren't so beneficial.

[bowtwi]

I understand, appreciate and agree with your response.

One difference I see is that you don't now go back to twig fellowship and pick up where you left off as if nothing ever happened since you were gone and start posting complaining that the fellowship didn't treat some other person quite right or blogging at their site like a house a fire. Seems to me a bit tacky and rather in-your-face insulting to paw specifically and the rest of us in general.

I have no idea who we collectively were not nice enough to. For all I know it was someone who came in here accusing us of lying abut vpw or lcm.

I'm glad to see excathedra back and I hope it wasn't just a fly-by post to tell us how awful we are, but rather a return to the fun exchanges we used to have.

Excathedra - I hope all is well in your world - your boy is at such a cool age now - I hope y'all are enjoying each other!

Edited November 15, 2009 by bowtwi

[Oakspear]

As far as my feeble memory can recall there was a site several years ago that was nominally an ex-JW site where a lot of us GSers went to for a while out of curiosity. There was a lot of trashing of Pawtucket and other GS posters over there, much of which went way beyond the line of criticizing a site that you have disagreements with. I don't specifically recall anyone being mentioned by name, but it could have happened. The attacks that went on over there, in my opinion, made the worst of what goes on at GS look tame.

I was informed a few months ago by a poster who is a member at MoChat that MoChat is a different site and entirely different than the old ex-JW site. I have no doubt that this is technically true, but a lot of the same people seem to be involved. In my opinion it's easy to see why someone might see the two as connected and that what went on a few years ago taints what goes on at the "new" site now.

In my opinion accusing someone of trashing Pawtucket at the "new site", especially lacking membership in that site, while technically not true, is understandable given the continuity among members, and that it was open back when it was still the "old" site.

Excathedra was certainly among the more vocal of the Pawtucket trashers before the site became MoChat.

[pawtucket]

No one likes being trashed. The trashing that goes on at other sites is going to happen. As Linda explained so well, I am going to be an object of criticism. It is an unfortunate side effect of the type of discussion site that I run. There were instances of My real name and my address being published. They were removed quickly. The issue at hand is presenting the other side of the story and a place to discuss it. All the other stuff is fluff. I'm happy to present the other stuff and will take the criticism if the other side of the story of TWI gets told and hopefully can help people get the answers that they need.

[Tzaia]

I have run online discussion lists (none of mine are public forums) since the mid '90s and have been trashed mercilessly at times - it just goes with the territory. There are a lot of nasty people out there. My only hope is that I don't become one of them.

[HAPe4me]

No one likes being trashed. The trashing that goes on at other sites is going to happen. As Linda explained so well, I am going to be an object of criticism. It is an unfortunate side effect of the type of discussion site that I run. There were instances of My real name and my address being published. They were removed quickly. The issue at hand is presenting the other side of the story and a place to discuss it. All the other stuff is fluff. I'm happy to present the other stuff and will take the criticism if the other side of the story of TWI gets told and hopefully can help people get the answers that they need.

'nuff of this.

There is no need to trash what goes on at other sites. They do not have enough traffic to warrant it, (in what I can see of their TWI forum). The current Mochat/JW/excult site appears to actively have in the last several months, one former GSC poster and two former prolific GSC posters who occasionally stop in here to post still. Where is it that most people come to hear more about the dark side of TWI? ayup, far and away it is the Greasespot. If we can't provide a comfortable place for them to post here, who cares if they post there?

[brainfixed]

I think where we fail as a community, is educating the new visitors on the range of choices available. Speaking your mind is accepted, but the new person may be overwhelmed with that concept. They have been in a bubble, told how to think. Suddenly they are immersed in a world of divergent opinions and criticisms. It is like transferring from a private school to a public school. All that is familiar is removed and now they have to wander the halls looking for their first class and can't find room #2-45B.

i think this is perfect because i think this describes exactly what happens and then it also talks about the lack here because it says "i think where we fail as a community, is educating the new visitors on the range of choices available." because my experience has been that there isn't really a range of choices available here and that there's really only one or two ways to think here if you're going to be really accepted here, and those one or two ways to think is to totally and completely puke out the doctrines of the way international and totally and completely get over any perceived damaged as soon as people here think you should be over any perceived damage because it's for your own good don't you know? and everybody here knows what's for your own good and will tell you so without even being asked, and even if asked why would cult survivors return to telling other people how to live in the first place, which is what makes the choices seem really limited and confuses a person as to what was wrong with the way international anyway?

[waysider]

i think this is perfect because i think this describes exactly what happens and then it also talks about the lack here because it says "i think where we fail as a community, is educating the new visitors on the range of choices available." because my experience has been that there isn't really a range of choices available here and that there's really only one or two ways to think here if you're going to be really accepted here, and those one or two ways to think is to totally and completely puke out the doctrines of the way international and totally and completely get over any perceived damaged as soon as people here think you should be over any perceived damage because it's for your own good don't you know? and everybody here knows what's for your own good and will tell you so without even being asked, and even if asked why would cult survivors return to telling other people how to live in the first place, which is what makes the choices seem really limited and confuses a person as to what was wrong with the way international anyway?

As long as you follow the posted rules, you are free to express your opinion here, whatever it might be. Just don't expect people to always agree with you.

Edited November 15, 2009 by waysider

[Shellon]

Isn't this ridiculious to discuss whether or not this site meets ones needs or not? It's been made CRYSTAL clear what this site is for, what Paw's intentions are, what is and isn't tolerated here.......

over and over and over and.......Gawwwwwwwwd

If someone doesn't like this site, last I checked this was The United States Of America, thus giving us a fair amount of freedom.

The ones that bi+ch about whether or not this site does what they think it should, I suggest they go somewhere else. Why in the heck be someplace you don't want to be?

If it doesn't have the variation, the threads, the whatever it is you want, start a thread, kick in your ideas, make suggestions, put on your big girl panties, grab your sack and do something about it. Start a forum and find out what it's like, volunteer to help Paw do stuff around here, DO something constructive.

I never recall gossip and back biting getting anything accomplished.

Don't like it here, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else.

[brainfixed]

Isn't this ridiculious to discuss whether or not this site meets ones needs or not? It's been made CRYSTAL clear what this site is for, what Paw's intentions are, what is and isn't tolerated here.......

over and over and over and.......Gawwwwwwwwd

If someone doesn't like this site, last I checked this was The United States Of America, thus giving us a fair amount of freedom.

The ones that bi+ch about whether or not this site does what they think it should, I suggest they go somewhere else. Why in the heck be someplace you don't want to be?

If it doesn't have the variation, the threads, the whatever it is you want, start a thread, kick in your ideas, make suggestions, put on your big girl panties, grab your sack and do something about it. Start a forum and find out what it's like, volunteer to help Paw do stuff around here, DO something constructive.

I never recall gossip and back biting getting anything accomplished.

Don't like it here, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else.

ok so see what i want to know is why didn't you go somewhere else when you didn't like what was being said on this discussion instead of telling people to "put on your big girl panties" and "don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya"? that is stuff i heard a whole lot in the way international when i said things people didn't like. and anyway somebody did do exactly what you're telling people to do, and they did go somewhere else and they did start a forum and they did volunteer to help out but what did it get them but made fun of and run off from everything i can figure out from all the discussions around here? just on this discussion alone it's already broken down into telling people to go away if they don't like the way people here play. and this is supposed to be the other side of the way international?

[pawtucket]

Brainfixed -- if you feel you get helpful info here, great. If you don't then maybe you need to go elsewhere. Neither is Telling you what to do. Both are giving you choices. The methods by which you are given that message varies. Welcome to Freedom outside the gates of TWI. You are welcome to hate or love this place, just as with any place or person, your brain is now under your control, not TWI's. Make choices; Get angry; Leave this site or stay. It is all in your power -- that is the real Key, it is all up to you.

[excathedra]

welcome to freedom !

Edited November 15, 2009 by excathedra

[excathedra]

brainfixed i tried to send you a pm but all it said was

excathedra2000@yahoo.com

[brainfixed]

Brainfixed -- if you feel you get helpful info here, great. If you don't then maybe you need to go elsewhere. Neither is Telling you what to do. Both are giving you choices. The methods by which you are given that message varies. Welcome to Freedom outside the gates of TWI. You are welcome to hate or love this place, just as with any place or person, your brain is now under your control, not TWI's. Make choices; Get angry; Leave this site or stay. It is all in your power -- that is the real Key, it is all up to you.

i don't feel like i get anything helpful or not helpful or anything really here besides a place to vent what i feel about my life because of the way international and whether that is helpful or not has not really been decided in my mind yet or not. i was just discussing but wasn't putting on any special clothing to do my discussing in except maybe my bad hair and my "it's sunday and i don't give a crap about nobody or nothing so don't bother me" robe and slippers that really need washing. if i broke some rule please tell me on monday when i'm wearing something better to hear you with. :D jk

brainfixed i tried to send you a pm but all it said was

excathedra2000@yahoo.com

oh well that's because i don't do private messages (and i hope that's what you mean by "pm") or emails with people here because i was totally whipped to death with how to live my life when i did. sorry but that's the way i feel.

[pawtucket]

you aren't breaking any rules. Sometimes just venting is all you need.

[brainfixed]

you aren't breaking any rules. Sometimes just venting is all you need.

i like what you've been saying on this discussion a lot and it brought some humor to things for me at least, and i needed the humor because i was getting all flashback freaky (that's a term i came up with in therapy about things i read here and how i react to them) with some things that were being said and you came back and said some of the same things but with a little bit of a different enough twist that they didn't bring on the flashback freakies for me, so i could laugh and see what the point was in the first place. and in the middle of the venting some discussing went on and in the middle of the discussing some understanding happened and that was helpful so i can say that today i got something helpful here and that it was good and i said amen but i'm still wearing that robe and those slippers so don't anybody push it with me. :P

[Linda Z]

Isn't this ridiculious to discuss whether or not this site meets ones needs or not?

Not really, no.

It's been made CRYSTAL clear what this site is for, what Paw's intentions are, what is and isn't tolerated here.......

over and over and over and.......Gawwwwwwwwd

And this precludes our being able to discuss how we, as an online community, could do things better???

If someone doesn't like this site, last I checked this was The United States Of America, thus giving us a fair amount of freedom.

The ones that bi+ch about whether or not this site does what they think it should, I suggest they go somewhere else. Why in the heck be someplace you don't want to be?

If it doesn't have the variation, the threads, the whatever it is you want, start a thread, kick in your ideas, make suggestions, put on your big girl panties, grab your sack and do something about it. Start a forum and find out what it's like, volunteer to help Paw do stuff around here, DO something constructive.

Been there, done that. As long as constructive criticism is viewed as trashing, it's a waste of time.

I never recall gossip and back biting getting anything accomplished.

And I don't recall doing either. Any beefs I've had about GSC, I've expressed right here, in the forums.

Don't like it here, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else.

How could I refuse such a gracious invitation?

I've been here from the beginning, and every time, every single time anyone has dared to say we could do a better job...WE, not Paw, not you, not GSC per se, but WE, the people who spend time typing away, trying to say stuff here that might help someone else a little bit, it's interpreted as trashing this site and trashing Pawtucket.

I think you're a fine person, Shellon. But I think it's time to check your own underwear drawer and put on the pair of big-girl panties that would allow you to look objectively at some valid points that have been made in this thread.

Although a few disgruntled former "followers of GSC" might have some negative things to say about this place on other forums, that is a minor factor in how GSC's reputation among the extwi community at large has been built.

I think I now know how people felt who stuck around twi too long. It's a "What was I thinking" moment for me.

[excathedra]

dear stella stella (i love that)

i wanted you to email me, but i certainly "get" why you wouldn't want to

[frank123lol]

HI,exie,Good to hear ya,I come here simply because I,plain and simple spent pretty close to 20 years in a

repressive cult,almost any thought was scruitized,waydale was on the scene,I lurked,Greasespot,I lurked,

not many posts,I have not even reached a thousand

Here I have a avenue to speak,interact and live a "normal"life outside twi.

Some have called this place a vomitorium,said it is old,stale,and moved on...

So be it,If I can help one person get out of twi,it will have been worth it,well the one person is moi.

[Tzaia]

Sheesh Louise