it took me YEARS to even TRY TO express what happened to me in the way, and i'm fairly certain it's "old news" to most people here
You'd be surprised perhaps...new people show up here every month. You're one of those who had the guts to "tell the other side of the story" as it pertained to your own experiences.
i talked to someone today who was in for almost 30 years and out less than five
they have been trying and trying to "find their voice" -- greasespot hasn't been helpful
i cannot tell you how heartbroken that makes me
Greasespot isn't for everyone; we're all different and move beyond TWI in manifold ways
has greasespot evolved so much that people here forget ?
i have forgotten until now, and that's what prompted me to come back on here
Forgotten what? I don't understand
so many of "us" (or at least "me") are years ahead of this outstanding worthwhile lovely soul
--
why do we think others are where we are ? and even if they don't please us (or "line up with us") in their particular place in their path, why doesn't compassion rule ?
I think that it does, generally. Many of us here don't like getting lectured or patronized, which is when compassion sometimes turns into impatience.
i had actually forgotten what it's like to be out for a short time
and ALSO i did not spend 30 years IN
is this the forgetting that you are referring to earlier in the post?
Yes, it is easy to forget.
I remember what it was like to be a newbie here. I also remember being given the truth by people who weren't afraid to hurt my feelings.
I would suppose that GreaseSpot is not for everyone...
...Perhaps you are recently out and you're not quite "ready" to hear that twi's top leadership was a bunch of drunken liars who abused young girls and lied in God's name...
...maybe you think that Wierwille's doctrine was sound ( ) but the leadership was lead astray...
Let me tell you something...the whole thing was a flim flam operation...don't believe ANY of it! Well, hope I didn't offend anyone with my plain speech.
Reminds me of when I first stumbled upon Waydale. I was so indignant and so offended at the stuff people were saying about my heros - til I was able to digest it and considered their words. It's a lot of tough pills to swallow. Maybe your friend might consider reading smaller amounts til they can handle more at a time.
It's a painful process, but it does get better. I thank God for Waydale and GreaseSpotCafe. We who were duped by twi were duped by really good con artists. It's quite a blow to face that they were up to such alterior motives.
I hope your friend sticks around. That pain in their gut won't last forever. Maybe they like music and would enjoy some of the games in the Reading Room? Maybe they might check out the My Story where we get real personal. I'm not sure what'll do it for them specifically, but I'm praying for them and their peace of mind.
And I'm glad to see you posting. I've been wondering how you are. :)
It seems that Excie wishes that everyone coming to GS could have the deliverance that she did. A laudable desire, but not really achievable, I think.
We all have different amounts of "baggage" when we come here, and some may find the forums here too much to take, or just not specific enough for their needs. Some may just need a lot more time.
That said, I contend that there is as much diversity of opinion here as would be found anywhere. One size may not fit all, but there is a lot of room here!
i talked to someone today who was in for almost 30 years and out less than five
they have been trying and trying to "find their voice" -- greasespot hasn't been helpful
i cannot tell you how heartbroken that makes me
has greasespot evolved so much that people here forget ?
I can only speak for myself and honestly, yes I do at times forget, I have been out for over twenty years and been coming to greasespot/waydale for 10 (is it 10 years already?)
I know that I had to work through some things--a lot of things-- when I first got here. A lot of the new info took a lot of time to digest--Ive had time and changed my way of thinking vastly since the first days I was here.
I'll try to be a little more patient if someone comes here is still sorting things out and mentions wanting to "move the word" or lauds Wierwille because the entire decrepitness of the whole organization hasnt dawned on them yet.
I think I know exactly what excathedra is saying. (Hi, exsie. )
I know lots of ex-Wayfers who don't come back here after a visit or two. It's not because they're so "pro-twi" or "pro-twi" doctrine.
Yes, some people find the posts here hard to take because it tarnishes the image of people they once held in high regard. But I've talked to others who simply don't like the harsh tone often leveled at new posters who don't immediately jump on the everything-anti-twi bandwagon within their first couple of posts. If you think I'm exaggerating, then I think you might want to take a step back and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute.
Of course some new people are going to come here "preaching." If they're still in twi or just got out, that's what they're used to, or maybe it's what they think they still should be doing. I know over a period of years that gets old, especially if you view these types of posts collectively ("Oh no, here comes another one"). But these are individuals, not a mob who have joined together to wreck anyone's day here.
The defensive/aggressive posts I often see here may help people posting them to vent their outrage, but do they help anyone coming here for the first time? Who is this site for? Is it only for amusement of the long-time posters? Or is it also for people who first peek in, maybe timidly at first, or maybe with both barrels blazing, who might learn something or have something good to share if they aren't blasted out of the water their first few times here.
It's possible to disagree with the "why don't you move on" posters without being defensive and hostile. Did you never defend anything about twi when you first got out, or when you first found this site?
I would agree that the tone is harsh towards people that are perceived as not getting "it".
We (collectively) have not done a good job at meeting people where they are.
I disagree. I don't know how we can always meet needs. I think we do the best we can with what we're given. We don't have the advantage of eye contact, body language and the benefit of real time conversation.
When someone comes here and says "I hate you all", we can go at it as a hostile environment situation, hoping we're meeting them where they are, but we have so little to go on. Maybe they're just having a crappy day and tomorrow they'll be saying "sorry, just a crappy day" and then we can approach from that information. Then when someone only communicates via third person as what looks like happened here, how can we know all of the information then too.
Do we always get it right? No way, nor will we; we're all human too and while we offer what we've got and we're a huge funtioning dysfunctional family here, we do the best we can.
I know people who refuse to come here because it's too aggressive.
When I first came here I was appalled at the libellous comments about some of the leadership of TWI. But I read in a sort of fascinated horror and eventually it began to connect with what I had seen but couldn't comprehend or acknowledge. Eventually I realized that the comments weren't libellous but actually spoke out of a long pattern of evildoing.
But my first thought was that these people are so unthankful, so ungrateful, so.... (head in hands). Easy to see why people are put off.
Now I'm appalled by how rude some people are to newbies who still hold "TWI truth" in their hearts. It's a sort of "love bombing" in reverse. Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.
I posted real quick this morning on my way out the door.
When I got back home, I reread what I had posted and thought, "Holy Crap! That doesn't sound at all like what I meant!" Of course, it was too late to edit. All I was trying to say was that if I knew what it is that your friend finds objectionable, maybe I could help in trying to fix it.
Well, that's still not exactly what I'm trying to say but I hope it makes it a little clearer.
Yup...some of us are pretty intolerant about getting preached at, myself included, then there are others who offer that virtual cup of GS coffee to even the biggest @ssholes. Welcome to life in the real world.
Picture GS cafe as a real bricks & mortar coffee shop. The place is full, one table is full of people chatting about their spouses & kids, another table has folks playing nostalgia games, one group is arguing passionately about politics, up by the front door is a couple of tables pushed together with people talking about TWI leadership,the pitfalls of TWI classes and what they think of Wierwille and Martindale. People come and go, the volume and civility of discussions rise and fall, occasionally the owner or one of the waiters has to ask people to shoosh, the bouncer hardly ever wakes up from his nap.
Then, in through the front door walks someone who has never been in before. He may have lurked by the front door, listening conversations, or run in to use the bathroom, or maybe even gotten a to-go cup, but today he's going speak. He plops himself down at the front table and announces that all those at the table should get back to 'The Word', get over it and stop hashing over negatives.
What would happen in a 'real' cafe? probably much the same that happens here. Several good-natured souls would laugh indulgently and offer the newbie a cup o' Joe, a few more curmudgeonly denizens might reply with variations of 'bite me rubber-head' and one or two might offer to take it outside.
We're here to tell the other side of the story. If healing and nurturing are part of that mission, so be it, all the better, but we're not a church, we're not a charitable organization, and yes, we're a little rowdy and we're more than a little opinionated. And just like that 'real' cafe, we're not all sitting at the same table and we move from table to table, we show up in varying moods and varying levels of patience, and with varying caffeine levels!
I would agree that the tone is harsh towards people that are perceived as not getting "it".
We (collectively) have not done a good job at meeting people where they are.
I thought the once-new-and-improved rules were going to help this. I was apparently naive.
Twinky said:
Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.
Amen. When people do this, it very much reminds me of twi. One of the reasons (of many) that I walked away from twi was the constant in-your-face, "We Are Right!" attitude so many had.
Some old friends of mine, exwayfers, are very involved in a couple twi offshoots. I see them two or three times a year, and when I do, I don't get in their faces and start yelling about how duped they are and how everything they ever believed was a sham. They know where I stand. When they say something I don't agree with, I just say, "I disagree." Simple. We might discuss it a bit, but they're adults. It's not my job to tell them what to believe or not believe.
We come together on the things we have in common, like mutual affection and watching each other's children grow up and comforting each other when one a loved one is lost. We don't get together to argue and "confront" each other. I've been where they are. The fact that I decided to move on from such twi-influenced thinking and the fact that they still embrace a lot more of it than I do doesn't make me care any less for them or them for me.
Call me soft-hearted or soft-headed or something, but I think a little more kindness and giving people the benefit of the doubt would go a loooooong way, along with letting them make up their own minds.
Intolerance bugs me. It bugged me in twi, and it bugs me still. I'm sure many will disagree that it happens here. And I'm sure many innies disagree that it happens within the confines of twi, too.
I say that it depends on the initial posting of said noob.
1) If said noob comes in with the (usual in society) respect for people, and still holds the 'VPW's PFAL is God's Word--uhh I mean, is godly instruction, yadayada', then yeah, they need the time to absorb all the facts and accounts that people have overwhelmingly proven has happened, get to know us here as friends and fellow ex-TWIers. And we should give them that time and tolerance.
2) However, if said noob comes in with this already-mind-made-up, "I'm speaking the Word of Gawd-a!, get over it and renew your f'ing mind!", ... Ahhh-NOPE! Blow the turd a-way. We've had e-nough of that kind of Corpse-wannabe mentality being **screamed** at us in TWI (and I've experienced said mentality myself on a number of occasions, ... and this was in the 70's and 80's fer crying out loud!), and (like it was amply demonstrated in the flick Network by that wacked out news anchor) we're gonna raise the windows, stick our heads out, and say loudly, "We're mad as hell! And we're not gonna take it anymore!!"
Ok, so maybe we don't need to take it that far, ... but we don't think that _we_ should always be the ones to take the initiative at treating them with respect and niceties. Since they are the ones coming out into the real world, _they_ should realize that "Gee Toto! I don't think we're in twig anymore!" and hold back on their God breathed Word, and scout out this place to see where its really at and what people will put up with re: things TWI.
And if _that_ drives them away, ... good riddance.
Yup...some of us are pretty intolerant about getting preached at, myself included, then there are others who offer that virtual cup of GS coffee to even the biggest @ssholes. Welcome to life in the real world.
No, welcome to life in the virtual world. People are much bolder online--both in their pro-twi views and their anti-twi views (pick a topic) when sitting at their computers than out in the real world. Time after time I see people come here with an opinion that differs from what most here think. It's immediately interpreted as "preaching." Sometimes it is, but not always. Sometimes its just someone with a different viewpoint.
Picture GS cafe as a real bricks & mortar coffee shop. The place is full, one table is full of people chatting about their spouses & kids, another table has folks playing nostalgia games, one group is arguing passionately about politics, up by the front door is a couple of tables pushed together with people talking about TWI leadership,the pitfalls of TWI classes and what they think of Wierwille and Martindale. People come and go, the volume and civility of discussions rise and fall, occasionally the owner or one of the waiters has to ask people to shoosh, the bouncer hardly ever wakes up from his nap.
The likelihood of this happening in a real cafe is minimal.
I'll go back to a point I was trying to make in my first post (rephrased because I'm too lazy to go back and quote myself). Where were you in your head when you first got here? Not everyone comes here the first time to preach, even if they express some unpopular views.
Then, in through the front door walks someone who has never been in before. He may have lurked by the front door, listening conversations, or run in to use the bathroom, or maybe even gotten a to-go cup, but today he's going speak. He plops himself down at the front table and announces that all those at the table should get back to 'The Word', get over it and stop hashing over negatives.
What would happen in a 'real' cafe? probably much the same that happens here. Several good-natured souls would laugh indulgently and offer the newbie a cup o' Joe, a few more curmudgeonly denizens might reply with variations of 'bite me rubber-head' and one or two might offer to take it outside.
Hopefully, in a real cafe, if the person was being a jerk (easier to tell with facial expression, tone of voice, posture, etc.) then maybe it would get heated. Or maybe if the person wasn't being a jerk, but was just speaking what he/she felt was true, someone would say the classic, "Let's just agree to disagree." Why must there be such a knee-jerk reaction?
We're here to tell the other side of the story. [snip]
Yeah, but the main page says, "All are welcome here." Perhaps that should be revised to "All are welcome here, but you'd better have really thick skin because if you stray very far from what we think, you're toast." Hmmm, have we made everyone really feel welcome?
...we're more than a little opinionated.[snip]
This has got to be the understatement of the century.
This is good stuff here...you know we are not health care professionals and sometimes that is even better because we have BEEN there DONE that and we are just not sitting in the chair
opposite trying to
"relate " in 45 minuetes from week to week if your in therapy(if you are that is a good thing too)
I am just saying in a war (lets just say)you got your buddy and he watches your back and you
ofcourse want that Buddy tocome out of it safe.
That is how I see it...ofcourse war does change people as does life with TWI and once you
decide to talk and open up that "Pandoras Box"
I hope that people do have some support. It took me 30 yrs to come to where I am today and
it was NOT easy but I came thru the FOG.
I am still here today but now talking about TWI to Warn people not to complain about poor
me and all.
I am thinking poor THEM that are still STUCK in the MESS. and that there is HOPE and don't
Ever Ever Give UP.
Getting OUT of TWI is like opening a window in a old stale house and taking a deep breath
Am I the only one who sees the similarity between what Garth has said and the us-them attitude twi pushed?
Linda, if that _one_ sentence is all you got out of my _entire_ post, .... you ain't got crap, lady. If you can't get anything more than "Am I the only one who sees the similarity between what Garth has said and the us-them attitude twi pushed?" out of the entirety of what I posted, ... you need to read what I said again, because I'll tell you right here and now, that is NOT what I said. And I'm getting sick and tired of this oversimplifying and non-thinking s**t. (Oh my, oh my! I'm expressing _anger_! ((gasps)) ... Yeah well, real people sometimes do that in real life, and a good number of times for a valid reason. So deal with it.)
I would bet that a sizable majority of posters here have blasted others here who came on with this 'renew your mind and get over it' clap trap, and they sure as hell aren't _about_ to apologize for doing so. And you know something? I proudly count myself as one of them. ... And you have the mitigated gaul to compare us with Way Corpse?! You just cannot tell the difference? :o
1) One of the Way Corpse's main (yet unwritten) purposes was to force people to comply (ie., 'by the renewing of your minds') with Wierwille's song-and-dance.
2) One of us GS 'blaster's purposes is the blatant defiance of that kind of mindset. And we have no hesitancy (well, I don't anyway, speaking for myself) at getting in the TWI apologist's faces about it, if need be. Christmas, don't you remember Whitedove, and his 'legal' crap defending TWI and dismissing the victims? ... Frankly, I took *wicked* delight at aiming my clearly less-than-diplomatic and scathing retorts in his direction. With no remorse nor repentance for doing so.
Oh, by the way, contrary to what _you_ might think happens in real life, I would be _just_ as scathing in real life towards said twerps as I am online, ... again, with no remorse nor repentance for doing so. Oh, and if they are the kind who think that they can 'beat some good manners into me', I can be just as _violent_ in their direction.
Sorry lady, but this ain't no garden party, ... and really, neither is Real Life.
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pawtucket
No one likes being trashed. The trashing that goes on at other sites is going to happen. As Linda explained so well, I am going to be an object of criticism. It is an unfortunate side effect of the ty
RumRunner
I didn't know it was the charter of GSC to be helpful. I think that being helpful was from the BASIC (not WAY driven) goodness of people's own hearts. I believe - if I can still read English - the mis
excathedra
it took me YEARS to even TRY TO express what happened to me in the way, and i'm fairly certain it's "old news" to most people here i talked to someone today who was in for almost 30 years and out les
Oakspear
Yes, it is easy to forget.
I remember what it was like to be a newbie here. I also remember being given the truth by people who weren't afraid to hurt my feelings.
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excathedra
could you tell me in one sentence what you just said ?
quote "Greasespot isn't for everyone; we're all different and move beyond TWI in manifold ways"
this is what particularly annoys me about your response
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Nottawayfer
Ex,
Aren't you being a little sensitive? His statement is true. There's nothing personal about it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I would suppose that GreaseSpot is not for everyone...
...Perhaps you are recently out and you're not quite "ready" to hear that twi's top leadership was a bunch of drunken liars who abused young girls and lied in God's name...
...maybe you think that Wierwille's doctrine was sound (
) but the leadership was lead astray...
Let me tell you something...the whole thing was a flim flam operation...don't believe ANY of it! Well, hope I didn't offend anyone with my plain speech.
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waysider
Did this person give any indication of what they don't like about GSC?
Is the coffee too bitter?
Were they, perhaps, hoping to find blueberry scones on the menu?
Is the decor not to their liking?
Maybe we can direct them to a cafe that has the type of fare they're looking for.
I'm just sayin'------
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bowtwi
Reminds me of when I first stumbled upon Waydale. I was so indignant and so offended at the stuff people were saying about my heros - til I was able to digest it and considered their words. It's a lot of tough pills to swallow. Maybe your friend might consider reading smaller amounts til they can handle more at a time.
It's a painful process, but it does get better. I thank God for Waydale and GreaseSpotCafe. We who were duped by twi were duped by really good con artists. It's quite a blow to face that they were up to such alterior motives.
I hope your friend sticks around. That pain in their gut won't last forever. Maybe they like music and would enjoy some of the games in the Reading Room? Maybe they might check out the My Story where we get real personal. I'm not sure what'll do it for them specifically, but I'm praying for them and their peace of mind.
And I'm glad to see you posting. I've been wondering how you are. :)
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Oakspear
What part annoys you? That GS isn't for everyone? Do you think it is?
We're all different? Do you think we're all the same?
We all move beyond TWI in manifold ways? What? We don't?
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GeorgeStGeorge
It seems that Excie wishes that everyone coming to GS could have the deliverance that she did. A laudable desire, but not really achievable, I think.
We all have different amounts of "baggage" when we come here, and some may find the forums here too much to take, or just not specific enough for their needs. Some may just need a lot more time.
That said, I contend that there is as much diversity of opinion here as would be found anywhere. One size may not fit all, but there is a lot of room here!
George
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Tzaia
How has GSC not been helpful? It would be useful to know what are her issues with the site.
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mstar1
I can only speak for myself and honestly, yes I do at times forget, I have been out for over twenty years and been coming to greasespot/waydale for 10 (is it 10 years already?)
I know that I had to work through some things--a lot of things-- when I first got here. A lot of the new info took a lot of time to digest--Ive had time and changed my way of thinking vastly since the first days I was here.
I'll try to be a little more patient if someone comes here is still sorting things out and mentions wanting to "move the word" or lauds Wierwille because the entire decrepitness of the whole organization hasnt dawned on them yet.
It can be a long long road through here for some
You're right though ex--I'll take it easy I try to take it easy on the new folks--but when some newbies start 'teaching the word'
or pronouncing us all evil as has happened a number of times --well my patience gets really tried. I'll work on that for you.
welcome back by the way
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Linda Z
I think I know exactly what excathedra is saying. (Hi, exsie.
)
I know lots of ex-Wayfers who don't come back here after a visit or two. It's not because they're so "pro-twi" or "pro-twi" doctrine.
Yes, some people find the posts here hard to take because it tarnishes the image of people they once held in high regard. But I've talked to others who simply don't like the harsh tone often leveled at new posters who don't immediately jump on the everything-anti-twi bandwagon within their first couple of posts. If you think I'm exaggerating, then I think you might want to take a step back and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute.
Of course some new people are going to come here "preaching." If they're still in twi or just got out, that's what they're used to, or maybe it's what they think they still should be doing. I know over a period of years that gets old, especially if you view these types of posts collectively ("Oh no, here comes another one"). But these are individuals, not a mob who have joined together to wreck anyone's day here.
The defensive/aggressive posts I often see here may help people posting them to vent their outrage, but do they help anyone coming here for the first time? Who is this site for? Is it only for amusement of the long-time posters? Or is it also for people who first peek in, maybe timidly at first, or maybe with both barrels blazing, who might learn something or have something good to share if they aren't blasted out of the water their first few times here.
It's possible to disagree with the "why don't you move on" posters without being defensive and hostile. Did you never defend anything about twi when you first got out, or when you first found this site?
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Tzaia
I would agree that the tone is harsh towards people that are perceived as not getting "it".
We (collectively) have not done a good job at meeting people where they are.
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chockfull
what did we do? what does "find their voice" mean?
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cheranne
Not everyones voice is an outside voice.
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Shellon
I disagree. I don't know how we can always meet needs. I think we do the best we can with what we're given. We don't have the advantage of eye contact, body language and the benefit of real time conversation.
When someone comes here and says "I hate you all", we can go at it as a hostile environment situation, hoping we're meeting them where they are, but we have so little to go on. Maybe they're just having a crappy day and tomorrow they'll be saying "sorry, just a crappy day" and then we can approach from that information. Then when someone only communicates via third person as what looks like happened here, how can we know all of the information then too.
Do we always get it right? No way, nor will we; we're all human too and while we offer what we've got and we're a huge funtioning dysfunctional family here, we do the best we can.
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Twinky
I know people who refuse to come here because it's too aggressive.
When I first came here I was appalled at the libellous comments about some of the leadership of TWI. But I read in a sort of fascinated horror and eventually it began to connect with what I had seen but couldn't comprehend or acknowledge. Eventually I realized that the comments weren't libellous but actually spoke out of a long pattern of evildoing.
But my first thought was that these people are so unthankful, so ungrateful, so.... (head in hands). Easy to see why people are put off.
Now I'm appalled by how rude some people are to newbies who still hold "TWI truth" in their hearts. It's a sort of "love bombing" in reverse. Give newbies a chance to get through the door, folks! Don't rise to the challenge to "speak the {GSC} truth" quite so aggressively.
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waysider
Hey, ex.
I posted real quick this morning on my way out the door.
When I got back home, I reread what I had posted and thought, "Holy Crap! That doesn't sound at all like what I meant!" Of course, it was too late to edit. All I was trying to say was that if I knew what it is that your friend finds objectionable, maybe I could help in trying to fix it.
Well, that's still not exactly what I'm trying to say but I hope it makes it a little clearer.
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Oakspear
Yup...some of us are pretty intolerant about getting preached at, myself included, then there are others who offer that virtual cup of GS coffee to even the biggest @ssholes. Welcome to life in the real world.
Picture GS cafe as a real bricks & mortar coffee shop. The place is full, one table is full of people chatting about their spouses & kids, another table has folks playing nostalgia games, one group is arguing passionately about politics, up by the front door is a couple of tables pushed together with people talking about TWI leadership,the pitfalls of TWI classes and what they think of Wierwille and Martindale. People come and go, the volume and civility of discussions rise and fall, occasionally the owner or one of the waiters has to ask people to shoosh, the bouncer hardly ever wakes up from his nap.
Then, in through the front door walks someone who has never been in before. He may have lurked by the front door, listening conversations, or run in to use the bathroom, or maybe even gotten a to-go cup, but today he's going speak. He plops himself down at the front table and announces that all those at the table should get back to 'The Word', get over it and stop hashing over negatives.
What would happen in a 'real' cafe? probably much the same that happens here. Several good-natured souls would laugh indulgently and offer the newbie a cup o' Joe, a few more curmudgeonly denizens might reply with variations of 'bite me rubber-head' and one or two might offer to take it outside.
We're here to tell the other side of the story. If healing and nurturing are part of that mission, so be it, all the better, but we're not a church, we're not a charitable organization, and yes, we're a little rowdy and we're more than a little opinionated. And just like that 'real' cafe, we're not all sitting at the same table and we move from table to table, we show up in varying moods and varying levels of patience, and with varying caffeine levels!
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Linda Z
Tzaia said:
I thought the once-new-and-improved rules were going to help this. I was apparently naive.
Twinky said:
Amen. When people do this, it very much reminds me of twi. One of the reasons (of many) that I walked away from twi was the constant in-your-face, "We Are Right!" attitude so many had.
Some old friends of mine, exwayfers, are very involved in a couple twi offshoots. I see them two or three times a year, and when I do, I don't get in their faces and start yelling about how duped they are and how everything they ever believed was a sham. They know where I stand. When they say something I don't agree with, I just say, "I disagree." Simple. We might discuss it a bit, but they're adults. It's not my job to tell them what to believe or not believe.
We come together on the things we have in common, like mutual affection and watching each other's children grow up and comforting each other when one a loved one is lost. We don't get together to argue and "confront" each other. I've been where they are. The fact that I decided to move on from such twi-influenced thinking and the fact that they still embrace a lot more of it than I do doesn't make me care any less for them or them for me.
Call me soft-hearted or soft-headed or something, but I think a little more kindness and giving people the benefit of the doubt would go a loooooong way, along with letting them make up their own minds.
Intolerance bugs me. It bugged me in twi, and it bugs me still. I'm sure many will disagree that it happens here. And I'm sure many innies disagree that it happens within the confines of twi, too.
Thanks, Exsie, for bringing up this topic.
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GarthP2000
I say that it depends on the initial posting of said noob.
1) If said noob comes in with the (usual in society) respect for people, and still holds the 'VPW's PFAL is God's Word--uhh I mean, is godly instruction, yadayada', then yeah, they need the time to absorb all the facts and accounts that people have overwhelmingly proven has happened, get to know us here as friends and fellow ex-TWIers. And we should give them that time and tolerance.
2) However, if said noob comes in with this already-mind-made-up, "I'm speaking the Word of Gawd-a!, get over it and renew your f'ing mind!", ... Ahhh-NOPE! Blow the turd a-way. We've had e-nough of that kind of Corpse-wannabe mentality being **screamed** at us in TWI (and I've experienced said mentality myself on a number of occasions, ... and this was in the 70's and 80's fer crying out loud!), and (like it was amply demonstrated in the flick Network by that wacked out news anchor) we're gonna raise the windows, stick our heads out, and say loudly, "We're mad as hell! And we're not gonna take it anymore!!"
Ok, so maybe we don't need to take it that far, ... but we don't think that _we_ should always be the ones to take the initiative at treating them with respect and niceties. Since they are the ones coming out into the real world, _they_ should realize that "Gee Toto! I don't think we're in twig anymore!" and hold back on their God breathed Word, and scout out this place to see where its really at and what people will put up with re: things TWI.
And if _that_ drives them away, ... good riddance.
Sorry, but I just can't be kind about this. <_<
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Linda Z
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Linda Z
Yeah, screw those unbelievers, right?
Am I the only one who sees the similarity between what Garth has said and the us-them attitude twi pushed?
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cheranne
This is good stuff here...you know we are not health care professionals and sometimes that is even better because we have BEEN there DONE that and we are just not sitting in the chair
opposite trying to
"relate " in 45 minuetes from week to week if your in therapy(if you are that is a good thing too)
I am just saying in a war (lets just say)you got your buddy and he watches your back and you
ofcourse want that Buddy tocome out of it safe.
That is how I see it...ofcourse war does change people as does life with TWI and once you
decide to talk and open up that "Pandoras Box"
I hope that people do have some support. It took me 30 yrs to come to where I am today and
it was NOT easy but I came thru the FOG.
I am still here today but now talking about TWI to Warn people not to complain about poor
me and all.
I am thinking poor THEM that are still STUCK in the MESS. and that there is HOPE and don't
Ever Ever Give UP.
Getting OUT of TWI is like opening a window in a old stale house and taking a deep breath
of FRESH AIR.
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GarthP2000
Linda, if that _one_ sentence is all you got out of my _entire_ post, .... you ain't got crap, lady. If you can't get anything more than "Am I the only one who sees the similarity between what Garth has said and the us-them attitude twi pushed?" out of the entirety of what I posted, ... you need to read what I said again, because I'll tell you right here and now, that is NOT what I said. And I'm getting sick and tired of this oversimplifying and non-thinking s**t. (Oh my, oh my! I'm expressing _anger_! ((gasps)) ... Yeah well, real people sometimes do that in real life, and a good number of times for a valid reason. So deal with it.)
I would bet that a sizable majority of posters here have blasted others here who came on with this 'renew your mind and get over it' clap trap, and they sure as hell aren't _about_ to apologize for doing so. And you know something? I proudly count myself as one of them. ... And you have the mitigated gaul to compare us with Way Corpse?! You just cannot tell the difference? :o
1) One of the Way Corpse's main (yet unwritten) purposes was to force people to comply (ie., 'by the renewing of your minds') with Wierwille's song-and-dance.
2) One of us GS 'blaster's purposes is the blatant defiance of that kind of mindset. And we have no hesitancy (well, I don't anyway, speaking for myself) at getting in the TWI apologist's faces about it, if need be. Christmas, don't you remember Whitedove, and his 'legal' crap defending TWI and dismissing the victims? ... Frankly, I took *wicked* delight at aiming my clearly less-than-diplomatic and scathing retorts in his direction.
With no remorse nor repentance for doing so.
Oh, by the way, contrary to what _you_ might think happens in real life, I would be _just_ as scathing in real life towards said twerps as I am online, ... again, with no remorse nor repentance for doing so. Oh, and if they are the kind who think that they can 'beat some good manners into me', I can be just as _violent_ in their direction.
Sorry lady, but this ain't no garden party, ... and really, neither is Real Life.
<_< I stand by what I say.
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