I'm so thankful you are getting help for yourself and your son. And I'm so sorry for what you went through before you got it.
Our son has ADHD and of course that didn't sit too well. TWI of course has only one solution for such situations: Deny the need for real medical help and beat the dang out of them until they LISTEN REMEMBER OBEY!
Such neanderthals. They are so damn ignorant it's amazing.
I've been really quiet lately because I've been going through some rough battles recently, including getting a psychological assessment by my own choice.
potato, it's all good. I went to see a psychologist myself after leaving, because I had insurance, realized it was an emotional event, and thought it would be better to look to advice from someone who was specifically educated in those areas as opposed to the "spritual" charlatans I previously listened to. Those talk sessions were great. The dr. didn't specifically go into the "diagnosis" and "treatment" as a dramatic label, but certainly mentioned that what I'd been through was similar to PTSD. The emotional trauma that's inflicted upon people by these false ministers is very real and tangible. It's measurable through the science of psychology, even though that science is relatively young compared to many others.
I don't think any of that means you're "wired differently". I think PTSD is a common symptom that you will find in people leaving TWI. I bet even the Asberger's can probably be attributed to suppressing the expression of common emotion over years such as is common in environments like TWI where you're afraid to speak up or express yourself. But I'm not the dr. Just enjoy the meetings. I've got a big notebook full of great notes.
I also think that we were conditioned to look down upon the psychology fields as inferior to "spiritual". I disagree with that - I think you go to a doctor when you have the flu physically - you go to a psychologist when you are sick emotionally. The attitude and conditioning taught is just one more element of that egotistical spiritual elitism found in TWI. They think they're the shiznit, but aren't even up to mediocre levels of competancy the world has.
I bet even the Asberger's can probably be attributed to suppressing the expression of common emotion over years such as is common in environments like TWI where you're afraid to speak up or express yourself.
actually I was very Aspergerian before joining twi. the promise of "logic" appealed to me. I kept taking the classes because the next class was supposed to answer everything
thank you everyone for your encouraging words. I'm so glad we all escaped!
Our son has ADHD and of course that didn't sit too well. TWI of course has only one solution for such situations: Deny the need for real medical help and beat the dang out of them until they LISTEN REMEMBER OBEY!
it's so sad what they do to kids :(
now I tell mine "think, discuss, decide, act". I love them and all their quirks just the way they are.
well, you know... except when they're driving me up a wall
Our youngest child has some issues similar to your son's. He's been diagnosed with ADHD and Oppositional Defiance Disorder. He may have Asperger's or Autism Spectrum - we haven't received a definitive diagnosis there but he's only four years old. There's a sensory integration issue and possibly a slight hearing issue. He is currently enrolled in the special education pre-school program at our local public school. We've been through Hell and back with that child... the simplest milestones for a "normal" child become boulders for children with special needs.
Whatever program, IEP, special aid, etc. you find for your son, don't be afraid to disclose information about your home life. You don't have to explain TWI but you can explain that you and your ex have very different approaches to parenting. Disclose as much as you're comfortable but the more the services know about your situation the more they can help and work with your son so that he can make progress.
The biggest issue I've seen with this situation is that the medical community, social services, and the schools do NOT communicate well with each other. Keep copies of all papers. Ask for copies of test results, forms, etc., and keep them in a binder. It will become a life-saver when he's going for ANOTHER assessment or whatnot. Follow-up with various groups to make sure they're sharing information. I learned the hard way - after we were on a waiting list for a year for a diagnosis for my little guy - that the doctors never received information from his pediatrician and then we were DROPPED from the list. After a whole year! (And never assume pediatricians are trained to deal with these issues! They're often aren't and there's some medical conditions that are specific to these disorders - such as a swallowing disorder, as my son has...) Oh, I could go on.
I do have a blog on this too - not to bore you but perhaps it will help... BLOG It's my life with my son that I've talked about here and his older brother who is beyond "normal" but is considered "gifted and talented"... Our oldest boy is reading at the 7th Grade level and doing math at the 6th Grade level while he's currently in the 3rd Grade. We've got both ends of that spectrum....
I have noticed the different systems are shockingly bad at exchanging information, even when I've signed releases at both ends. I will start asking for copies of everything and keep them all together.
it's awesome that you're getting help for your son so young. I think AS can often look like ODD, but they're not defiant for the sake of defiance. I think my son would have a much easier time of it if he hadn't suffered so much for being blamed for things he can't control. we're still fighting that... it's like people seriously cannot understand that a kid will inevitably melt down if you consistently and cruelly push them beyond what they're able to do. even normal kids will, it's just that with sensory issues we reach the breaking point faster.
that's why when I was in twi I was so depressed all the time. shutting down was the only way to deal with it.
It still astounds me how deep the abuse went. Going to Greasespot has made me see that what I went through was just a part of the whole picture, that so many of us suffered.
I am so thankful that TWI isn't a part of my kids' lives. I had left TWI before they were born. Parenting under those "rules" - wooden spoon, etc., - would never work for a child like my youngest. Part of the ODD is that if you do spank or maybe slap their hands, then they retaliate - it turns into a one-upsman thing. Not the kind of contest you want to get into with a child you can't reason with or can understand right from wrong. Discipline is a whole new art. We use a combination of sign/verbal/pictures with the youngest and one thing that will stop him in his tracks is a frown on my face. Don't know why, but it works. He would have certainly been labeled 'possessed' by TWI but we know he's not. As you put it - he's wired differently. In-your-face confrontation/correction just DOES NOT work those kids or people.
But do you think they'd ever take that into account? Nope.
Remember - in TWI you've got people with Associate Degrees or less telling you how to manage your life and raise your children, but they have no clinical training what-so-ever. I'm amazed that someone hasn't sued them yet for marital counseling or family counseling without a license!
It still astounds me how deep the abuse went. Going to Greasespot has made me see that what I went through was just a part of the whole picture, that so many of us suffered.
What a hell hole.
thanks, and yes twi is surely a hell hole. the longer I'm out and the healthier I get the more I can see that the depth of the hole far exceeds anything I could have imagined.
I am so thankful that TWI isn't a part of my kids' lives. I had left TWI before they were born. Parenting under those "rules" - wooden spoon, etc., - would never work for a child like my youngest. Part of the ODD is that if you do spank or maybe slap their hands, then they retaliate - it turns into a one-upsman thing. Not the kind of contest you want to get into with a child you can't reason with or can understand right from wrong. Discipline is a whole new art. We use a combination of sign/verbal/pictures with the youngest and one thing that will stop him in his tracks is a frown on my face. Don't know why, but it works. He would have certainly been labeled 'possessed' by TWI but we know he's not. As you put it - he's wired differently. In-your-face confrontation/correction just DOES NOT work those kids or people.
twi was all about forcing square pegs to pretend to be round so they could force themselves into round holes that were far, far too small. I have no doubt they'd pronounce me and my kids possessed, although they coddled and petted my ex, who very likely has a personality disorder and is far sicker in the head than I could ever imagine being.
I just thought I would add this to your arsenal of information
This is a web site a dear friend of mine has ... her daughter has Asperger's pretty bad
any way it is one more resource for you with recipes and that kind of thing.
She is amazing and has done great work with her daughter who they are currently home schooling because of the difficulties from how her daughter was treated at school.Much of what has been said already.
For them it was a good choice, but as she says each child is different and you have to try stuff till you find what works there is no one way to treat the condition..
It is also good if you are gluten intolerant because the recipes are gluten and casein free.
This is something to do in conjunction with your doctor recommended medicines... it is a way to give your child a bit of relief and for you a place where you can find other people who know what you are going thru.
any way I hope it helps you... and don't be afraid to email questions to them she and her husband are really dear hearts. and they have a teenager and have many suggestions and ideas for how to deal with some of the issues your child has that most people don't understand.
hmm. . . often, doesn't one spouse "pick sides" in favor twi? . . . would make it difficult for the other to believe someone would go to bat for them.
Not always... I went for years in my first marriage with an untrained, non-clinical counselor who worked as a housepainter by day and weekly counselor by night. He thought his associate's degree in theology from a cult in a cornfield qualified him to advise me and mine on finances, communication, sex, and sex.
interesting site, leafytwiglet. we have so many food intolerances it's not even funny, and wheat is one of them. I also have IBS and fibromyalgia, and I suspect they're connected to the AS somehow (i.e. caused by the same thing, maybe, whether the cause is genetic or viral).
I don't think autism is curable, since once a brain has developed it's not going to change substantially, but I certainly believe that many of the accompanying symptoms can be managed or even eliminated by getting enough sleep, eating well (which for us means as milk and gluten free as possible), and being allowed to work in a more solitary setting, which I think would help autistic people function at a much higher level.
insomnia is another part of the AS puzzle and I know when I don't sleep I have intense sensory issues and stress. if I could solve that part of the puzzle my life would be much better... remember when vpw said all you need is SIT for sleep problems? well that never worked for me. I have to take drugs to function in a day person world, otherwise I revert to a much later wake/sleep cycle, which of course got me in endless trouble in twi since everyone is supposed to be able to control everything their body does.
your friend's website is right about bad advice. people will tell us all kinds of things we should do... I was even told my kid would grow up to be a criminal and it would be my fault. I have a book's worth of other bad advice given to me for my sake and my kid's, and that's not even counting the volumes that could be written about what I got in twi.
I look forward to a time when health care professionals and educators understand neurological problems better, so that kids (and adults) don't even need to deal with the issues brought about by non-acceptance if not downright hostility.
the way I look at it, I'll always be reserved, analytical, introspective, and a loner and those aren't personality flaws or a disorder, but it would be nice to be able to sleep and not have sensory issues. those are problems. maybe science will discover some solutions someday.
potato, my love, one word you said..... determination. There is no power on earth that can stop a mama's determination for her children.
I can hardly begin to tell you how your post touched me and how I can relate to so much of it, specifically, the control in the home.
i like using "differently wired" in this discussion because that's really it in a nutshell, isn't it? isn't it the differently wired that the way international abuses the most? from the stories on here alone about how h.a. and others would hunt for just the right victims for vpw, how we were all taught to pick out specific people to "witness" into taking pfal or going wow or whatever, or look at what the way international described as the "ideal" corps people. the way international always has been looking for victims and typically victims are those that have spent most of their lives knowing they were different from others and they have felt that difference in negative ways, so the way international comes in like saviors and makes those differences into "gifts" only to use those "gifts" as a means to the ends of worse torment than people knew before the way international.
i like using "differently wired" in this discussion because that's really it in a nutshell, isn't it? isn't it the differently wired that the way international abuses the most? from the stories on here alone about how h.a. and others would hunt for just the right victims for vpw, how we were all taught to pick out specific people to "witness" into taking pfal or going wow or whatever, or look at what the way international described as the "ideal" corps people. the way international always has been looking for victims and typically victims are those that have spent most of their lives knowing they were different from others and they have felt that difference in negative ways, so the way international comes in like saviors and makes those differences into "gifts" only to use those "gifts" as a means to the ends of worse torment than people knew before the way international.
I like the term "differently wired" so much better than "disabled" or "disordered" :) ("freak" also doesn't bother me when it's coming from friendlies when I've done or said something strange).
you are so right about twi hunting down people who don't feel like they fit in. it's really common for people with ADD, AS, HFA or anxiety disorders to feel like we don't really belong anywhere because our quirks often make us outsiders. twi uses that to suck people in, make us feel like we're ok just the way we are, then suddenly we're not ok because of THIS. so we change THIS then suddenly THAT isn't ok. so we change THAT. suddenly one day after being in twi for years, I realized I didn't feel like a person at all.
yes and now when people try to fix me i rear back and roar and snarl and swipe at them with unsheathed claws and hope i take their hearts out! not really that bad, but almost. i don't do well at all with people that try to make me into their own images.
I like the term "differently wired" so much better than "disabled" or "disordered" :) ("freak" also doesn't bother me when it's coming from friendlies when I've done or said something strange).
you are so right about twi hunting down people who don't feel like they fit in. it's really common for people with ADD, AS, HFA or anxiety disorders to feel like we don't really belong anywhere because our quirks often make us outsiders. twi uses that to suck people in, make us feel like we're ok just the way we are, then suddenly we're not ok because of THIS. so we change THIS then suddenly THAT isn't ok. so we change THAT. suddenly one day after being in twi for years, I realized I didn't feel like a person at all.
The worst wiring problems in TWI IMO were with those close to Wierwille and tip-top leadership.
If I'm not mistaken I think sociopaths can not be treated.
And it makes a lot of sense to me now to think of TWI as the nuts running the nut house. But the nuts in charged not only gave people more issues with "wiring" than they may have had in the first place, but then these idiots made sure they built into us that incredibly stupid fear and loathing of proffessionals in the mental health field.
I am certain that many folks can relate to what you have been going through Potato. I wish that I could personally contribute to this thread because I think that with a bit more participation and sharing it could be very helpful to many people.
The worst wiring problems in TWI IMO were with those close to Wierwille and tip-top leadership.
If I'm not mistaken I think sociopaths can not be treated.
you're correct, Jeff. cognitive therapy which can be very helpful to people with personality disorders are rarely successful simply because the person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy), narcissistic personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder simply can't see that they're the problem. to them, it's everyone else's fault, and everyone else is there solely to support their ego. it's usually more successful with borderline personalities. I'm not sure if that's because borderline doesn't effect the self-awareness part of the brain as severely or what. it's very successful for autistics and aspergerians because we actually do care about our interactions with others.
research has found some brain structure defects in sociopaths. pathological liars have different brain structure defects as well, so in effect they are indeed differently wired as well, but I can't think of any redeeming value in them.
you're correct, Jeff. cognitive therapy which can be very helpful to people with personality disorders are rarely successful simply because the person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy), narcissistic personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder simply can't see that they're the problem.
This one had me immediately remembering all the stuff I used to consider simply the MOG reacting to the intense stress of his job as a member of River Road Fellowship. I wish I knew then what I knew now, but at least now I can see some of it even though my education as to the specifics of these things is lacking.
research has found some brain structure defects in sociopaths. pathological liars have different brain structure defects as well, so in effect they are indeed differently wired as well, but I can't think of any redeeming value in them.
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cheranne
Thank you for being able to share this and your honesty,very gutsy ,you have much courage
and I am glad your son has you to help him.
You will get thru this!
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waysider
TWI insisted everyone fit their cookie-cutter prototype.
Hell! You weren't even supposed to use the word "creative"!
(Only Gaaawd can create, dontcha know?)
For whatever it's worth, we're here and pulling for you.
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Watered Garden
I'm so thankful you are getting help for yourself and your son. And I'm so sorry for what you went through before you got it.
Our son has ADHD and of course that didn't sit too well. TWI of course has only one solution for such situations: Deny the need for real medical help and beat the dang out of them until they LISTEN REMEMBER OBEY!
Such neanderthals. They are so damn ignorant it's amazing.
WG
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chockfull
potato, it's all good. I went to see a psychologist myself after leaving, because I had insurance, realized it was an emotional event, and thought it would be better to look to advice from someone who was specifically educated in those areas as opposed to the "spritual" charlatans I previously listened to. Those talk sessions were great. The dr. didn't specifically go into the "diagnosis" and "treatment" as a dramatic label, but certainly mentioned that what I'd been through was similar to PTSD. The emotional trauma that's inflicted upon people by these false ministers is very real and tangible. It's measurable through the science of psychology, even though that science is relatively young compared to many others.
I don't think any of that means you're "wired differently". I think PTSD is a common symptom that you will find in people leaving TWI. I bet even the Asberger's can probably be attributed to suppressing the expression of common emotion over years such as is common in environments like TWI where you're afraid to speak up or express yourself. But I'm not the dr. Just enjoy the meetings. I've got a big notebook full of great notes.
I also think that we were conditioned to look down upon the psychology fields as inferior to "spiritual". I disagree with that - I think you go to a doctor when you have the flu physically - you go to a psychologist when you are sick emotionally. The attitude and conditioning taught is just one more element of that egotistical spiritual elitism found in TWI. They think they're the shiznit, but aren't even up to mediocre levels of competancy the world has.
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potato
actually I was very Aspergerian before joining twi. the promise of "logic" appealed to me. I kept taking the classes because the next class was supposed to answer everything
thank you everyone for your encouraging words. I'm so glad we all escaped!
it's so sad what they do to kids :(
now I tell mine "think, discuss, decide, act". I love them and all their quirks just the way they are.
well, you know... except when they're driving me up a wall
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Bolshevik
You, . . . are in dire need of a potato cannon.
(no pun intended)
it'll lift yur spurts
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potato
I've been thinking of building one ever since I saw it on mythbusters.
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ChasUFarley
Our youngest child has some issues similar to your son's. He's been diagnosed with ADHD and Oppositional Defiance Disorder. He may have Asperger's or Autism Spectrum - we haven't received a definitive diagnosis there but he's only four years old. There's a sensory integration issue and possibly a slight hearing issue. He is currently enrolled in the special education pre-school program at our local public school. We've been through Hell and back with that child... the simplest milestones for a "normal" child become boulders for children with special needs.
I can recommend some great books for you to read about Asperger's - one is written by the electronics tech for KISS (no kidding) (Look Me In The Eye by John Elder Robison) and people with Asperger's are generally very intelligent and have an above-average IQ but do not function well or at all socially. Another great book is Sound Of Falling Snow: Stories of Recovery from Autism and Related Conditions by Annabel Stehli
Whatever program, IEP, special aid, etc. you find for your son, don't be afraid to disclose information about your home life. You don't have to explain TWI but you can explain that you and your ex have very different approaches to parenting. Disclose as much as you're comfortable but the more the services know about your situation the more they can help and work with your son so that he can make progress.
The biggest issue I've seen with this situation is that the medical community, social services, and the schools do NOT communicate well with each other. Keep copies of all papers. Ask for copies of test results, forms, etc., and keep them in a binder. It will become a life-saver when he's going for ANOTHER assessment or whatnot. Follow-up with various groups to make sure they're sharing information. I learned the hard way - after we were on a waiting list for a year for a diagnosis for my little guy - that the doctors never received information from his pediatrician and then we were DROPPED from the list. After a whole year! (And never assume pediatricians are trained to deal with these issues! They're often aren't and there's some medical conditions that are specific to these disorders - such as a swallowing disorder, as my son has...) Oh, I could go on.
I do have a blog on this too - not to bore you but perhaps it will help... BLOG It's my life with my son that I've talked about here and his older brother who is beyond "normal" but is considered "gifted and talented"... Our oldest boy is reading at the 7th Grade level and doing math at the 6th Grade level while he's currently in the 3rd Grade. We've got both ends of that spectrum....
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potato
I have noticed the different systems are shockingly bad at exchanging information, even when I've signed releases at both ends. I will start asking for copies of everything and keep them all together.
it's awesome that you're getting help for your son so young. I think AS can often look like ODD, but they're not defiant for the sake of defiance. I think my son would have a much easier time of it if he hadn't suffered so much for being blamed for things he can't control. we're still fighting that... it's like people seriously cannot understand that a kid will inevitably melt down if you consistently and cruelly push them beyond what they're able to do. even normal kids will, it's just that with sensory issues we reach the breaking point faster.
that's why when I was in twi I was so depressed all the time. shutting down was the only way to deal with it.
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outandabout
Sorry you went through all that, Potato.
It still astounds me how deep the abuse went. Going to Greasespot has made me see that what I went through was just a part of the whole picture, that so many of us suffered.
What a hell hole.
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ChasUFarley
I am so thankful that TWI isn't a part of my kids' lives. I had left TWI before they were born. Parenting under those "rules" - wooden spoon, etc., - would never work for a child like my youngest. Part of the ODD is that if you do spank or maybe slap their hands, then they retaliate - it turns into a one-upsman thing. Not the kind of contest you want to get into with a child you can't reason with or can understand right from wrong. Discipline is a whole new art. We use a combination of sign/verbal/pictures with the youngest and one thing that will stop him in his tracks is a frown on my face. Don't know why, but it works. He would have certainly been labeled 'possessed' by TWI but we know he's not. As you put it - he's wired differently. In-your-face confrontation/correction just DOES NOT work those kids or people.
But do you think they'd ever take that into account? Nope.
Remember - in TWI you've got people with Associate Degrees or less telling you how to manage your life and raise your children, but they have no clinical training what-so-ever. I'm amazed that someone hasn't sued them yet for marital counseling or family counseling without a license!
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potato
thanks, and yes twi is surely a hell hole. the longer I'm out and the healthier I get the more I can see that the depth of the hole far exceeds anything I could have imagined.
twi was all about forcing square pegs to pretend to be round so they could force themselves into round holes that were far, far too small. I have no doubt they'd pronounce me and my kids possessed, although they coddled and petted my ex, who very likely has a personality disorder and is far sicker in the head than I could ever imagine being.
twi values the wrong things in people.
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Bolshevik
hmm. . . often, doesn't one spouse "pick sides" in favor twi? . . . would make it difficult for the other to believe someone would go to bat for them.
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Shellon
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leafytwiglet
Potato
I just thought I would add this to your arsenal of information
This is a web site a dear friend of mine has ... her daughter has Asperger's pretty bad
any way it is one more resource for you with recipes and that kind of thing.
She is amazing and has done great work with her daughter who they are currently home schooling because of the difficulties from how her daughter was treated at school.Much of what has been said already.
For them it was a good choice, but as she says each child is different and you have to try stuff till you find what works there is no one way to treat the condition..
anyway this is the website http://wogglebug.com/
It is also good if you are gluten intolerant because the recipes are gluten and casein free.
This is something to do in conjunction with your doctor recommended medicines... it is a way to give your child a bit of relief and for you a place where you can find other people who know what you are going thru.
any way I hope it helps you... and don't be afraid to email questions to them she and her husband are really dear hearts. and they have a teenager and have many suggestions and ideas for how to deal with some of the issues your child has that most people don't understand.
http://wogglebug.com/
Hugs from me....
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kimberly
potato, my love, one word you said..... determination. There is no power on earth that can stop a mama's determination for her children.
I can hardly begin to tell you how your post touched me and how I can relate to so much of it, specifically, the control in the home.
Keep at it girlfriend!!! I am in your corner!!
Kimberly
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ChasUFarley
Not always... I went for years in my first marriage with an untrained, non-clinical counselor who worked as a housepainter by day and weekly counselor by night. He thought his associate's degree in theology from a cult in a cornfield qualified him to advise me and mine on finances, communication, sex, and sex.
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potato
interesting site, leafytwiglet. we have so many food intolerances it's not even funny, and wheat is one of them. I also have IBS and fibromyalgia, and I suspect they're connected to the AS somehow (i.e. caused by the same thing, maybe, whether the cause is genetic or viral).
I don't think autism is curable, since once a brain has developed it's not going to change substantially, but I certainly believe that many of the accompanying symptoms can be managed or even eliminated by getting enough sleep, eating well (which for us means as milk and gluten free as possible), and being allowed to work in a more solitary setting, which I think would help autistic people function at a much higher level.
insomnia is another part of the AS puzzle and I know when I don't sleep I have intense sensory issues and stress. if I could solve that part of the puzzle my life would be much better... remember when vpw said all you need is SIT for sleep problems? well that never worked for me. I have to take drugs to function in a day person world, otherwise I revert to a much later wake/sleep cycle, which of course got me in endless trouble in twi since everyone is supposed to be able to control everything their body does.
your friend's website is right about bad advice. people will tell us all kinds of things we should do... I was even told my kid would grow up to be a criminal and it would be my fault. I have a book's worth of other bad advice given to me for my sake and my kid's, and that's not even counting the volumes that could be written about what I got in twi.
I look forward to a time when health care professionals and educators understand neurological problems better, so that kids (and adults) don't even need to deal with the issues brought about by non-acceptance if not downright hostility.
the way I look at it, I'll always be reserved, analytical, introspective, and a loner and those aren't personality flaws or a disorder, but it would be nice to be able to sleep and not have sensory issues. those are problems. maybe science will discover some solutions someday.
thank you Kimberly :)
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brainfixed
i like using "differently wired" in this discussion because that's really it in a nutshell, isn't it? isn't it the differently wired that the way international abuses the most? from the stories on here alone about how h.a. and others would hunt for just the right victims for vpw, how we were all taught to pick out specific people to "witness" into taking pfal or going wow or whatever, or look at what the way international described as the "ideal" corps people. the way international always has been looking for victims and typically victims are those that have spent most of their lives knowing they were different from others and they have felt that difference in negative ways, so the way international comes in like saviors and makes those differences into "gifts" only to use those "gifts" as a means to the ends of worse torment than people knew before the way international.
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potato
I like the term "differently wired" so much better than "disabled" or "disordered" :) ("freak" also doesn't bother me when it's coming from friendlies when I've done or said something strange).
you are so right about twi hunting down people who don't feel like they fit in. it's really common for people with ADD, AS, HFA or anxiety disorders to feel like we don't really belong anywhere because our quirks often make us outsiders. twi uses that to suck people in, make us feel like we're ok just the way we are, then suddenly we're not ok because of THIS. so we change THIS then suddenly THAT isn't ok. so we change THAT. suddenly one day after being in twi for years, I realized I didn't feel like a person at all.
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brainfixed
yes and now when people try to fix me i rear back and roar and snarl and swipe at them with unsheathed claws and hope i take their hearts out! not really that bad, but almost. i don't do well at all with people that try to make me into their own images.
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JeffSjo
The worst wiring problems in TWI IMO were with those close to Wierwille and tip-top leadership.
If I'm not mistaken I think sociopaths can not be treated.
And it makes a lot of sense to me now to think of TWI as the nuts running the nut house. But the nuts in charged not only gave people more issues with "wiring" than they may have had in the first place, but then these idiots made sure they built into us that incredibly stupid fear and loathing of proffessionals in the mental health field.
I am certain that many folks can relate to what you have been going through Potato. I wish that I could personally contribute to this thread because I think that with a bit more participation and sharing it could be very helpful to many people.
JEFF :)
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potato
you're correct, Jeff. cognitive therapy which can be very helpful to people with personality disorders are rarely successful simply because the person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy), narcissistic personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder simply can't see that they're the problem. to them, it's everyone else's fault, and everyone else is there solely to support their ego. it's usually more successful with borderline personalities. I'm not sure if that's because borderline doesn't effect the self-awareness part of the brain as severely or what. it's very successful for autistics and aspergerians because we actually do care about our interactions with others.
research has found some brain structure defects in sociopaths. pathological liars have different brain structure defects as well, so in effect they are indeed differently wired as well, but I can't think of any redeeming value in them.
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JeffSjo
This one had me immediately remembering all the stuff I used to consider simply the MOG reacting to the intense stress of his job as a member of River Road Fellowship. I wish I knew then what I knew now, but at least now I can see some of it even though my education as to the specifics of these things is lacking.
No, me either, just damage causing people....
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