Any one else ever feel this way?

[longgone]

I visited Grease Spot for a while some years ago and I think I posted “My Story” then, (under a different screen name). Right now I’m back to share an aspect that I haven’t thought of for a while and I wonder if anyone else will relate to it or not.

I’ve read so many posts here in the last couple of days and there is much intelligent discussion and elegant narrative. My post won’t be one of the most interesting or elegant. But I really do need some feedback on a couple of things. If there is anyone anywhere who can relate, they are probably here. If you are patient enough to get through it and have any response, I’ll be grateful. Even if you think I’m just goofy or off the wall.

Like many of you, my time with the Way was a series of crises. The first five years led me deeper and deeper. Then the next six were an oscillating journey toward my final exit. It’s the conclusions I came to at that final break that I really want to know if you can relate to.

As years in TWI went by, the ongoing crises seemed to lead to more personal loss and often to physical danger and violence; bullet dodging, forced abduction, looking down the barrel of a shotgun, associating with murderers, a busted lip, serious car crash, threats, drunken rowdies trying to break into my home and do me harm. Always associated directly or indirectly with witnessing and running twigs or classes. This is pertinent to the questions I’m going to ask later.

I suppose I could have viewed these dangers as signs of the devil’s displeasure with me for my good work, something like the apostle Paul’s list of tribulations. But it never felt that way to me. Some were just weird intrusions that seemed to pop out of nowhere. Some were the result of fatigue. Some from dangerous people I tried to help. Some were threats from leaders I didn’t please.

After the first five years and my second expulsion from the Way Corps, I was still studying the Bible and keeping up a prayer relationship with God. But I had no intention of continuing my path with TWI. As a matter of fact when I was dropped from the Corps for the second time, I went to a rural area where it happened that the nearest Way fellowship was about 40 miles away and I had no intention of participating.

Nonetheless, it seemed that as long as I kept delving into the Bible and praying, people kept showing up in my life that wanted spiritual guidance. At that time I still thought that PFAL gave the basics and I directed people that way. Since there was no fellowship around and no one in the state would come to my area to run a class, I ended up getting involved again, starting Twigs and running classes. As usual, that ended up leading to more personal loss and occasional danger.

Along the winding path I took towards leaving TWI, ironically I actually ended up on HQ staff for a couple of years. I didn’t seek a position. I was solicited and hired by a department head that knew me somewhat and needed my secular skills in his department.

I was at HQ as a summer volunteer on the day that VPW died and then was called back the following year as full time staff shortly before POP. The following two years on staff was enough to convince me fully that I didn’t want to be part of TWI anymore and I quit HQ shortly before LCM started making people vow their loyalty to him. I’m sure I would soon have been fired anyway.

I don’t want to give the impression that my quitting was some kind of noble stand against the big bad ministry. I did feel the hammer coming down and didn’t want to be there for it. I had found it impossible to sit through Sunday nights or stay awake in Twigs for a long time because the teachings had become so full of fear. But I quit just as much because of my own depression and inability to break through any of my personal agonies. I just found it painful to be there and wanted to go.

I had lots of my own personal problems that would have been part of my life even if I’d never heard of TWI. But my biggest one was trying to understand why it didn’t seem that God could help me with any of them after that initial few years.

I left HQ and started trying to pursue personal goals that I had deferred for the past 10 years. But I still kept up my personal relationship with the Bible and God. Sure enough, the more I studied and thought that I was understanding what God wanted me to do, the more I would meet people who seemed to need God and the more personal loss and danger it would add up to for me.

A year or so later I was living outside of Nashville, TN in a small camper, trying to work a bit and become a better musician. I had recently directed one last young couple to the PFAL class. I don’t think I attended much of it with them. I may have even told them not to expect much from the fellowships, just take the class, get the basics and move on (perhaps like I wished I had done).

At this time I was still moved powerfully by the Bible and prayer. But despite feeling that strong inner communion with God, my personal and material life just seemed to deteriorate more and more. I was delivering Dominoes pizza with a car that wasn’t going to run much longer. I was socially isolated. Making little progress towards any goals that mattered to me.

It was around that time that a bunch of rowdy steel workers in the next camper decided to single me out for ridicule and then, one night, tried to break into my camper with me in it. I had never said a word to any of them or interacted with them in any way. I don’t think they had any idea who I was. They were just drunk and drawn to me for some reason; like a pack of wild dogs. It wasn’t directly tied to anything else that was going on (the young man I’d been witnessing to was tangentially part of the incident) – but it felt in a metaphysical way like a direct attack and in my memory like a familiar pattern. As it had happened in the past; 1) my heart feels like I’m in communion with God, 2) I share my communion with people who seem to need God, 3) my personal and material life deteriorates, something dangerous happens.

OK, here’s the part that I really want to know if anyone else can relate to:

Did any of you experience that kind of pattern? Focus more on God’s voice = closer to danger and destruction? If you did, what do you think of it in your own life?

Not long after that incident I took stock of myself. I remembered saying over and over in my early witnessing days that if this stuff didn’t work for me I wouldn’t be preaching it. Internally there was something precious which did work for me – but I felt strongly that the closer I got to that internal beauty the closer I got to danger and destruction on the outside. Maybe I helped some people along the way… maybe.

There was something too rich about the diet. Like too much love for the spiritual was making me sick in the material. I could not balance it. I finally came to the conclusion that although man could not live on bread alone, the time had come for me to focus on the daily bread and let the spiritual diet take care of itself. It wasn’t as much a choice to turn away from God, as it was a choice to live. I felt certain I was headed for bad things if I kept reading the Bible and praying.

I gave all my research books (which took up considerable space in my tiny trailer) to the young couple I’d been witnessing to and from that day stopped reading the bible and praying. Slowly my life began to balance out.

I still had plenty of personal problems. The same ones I’d carried into and through TWI minus a few that actually were addressed in those first few years. But I no longer tried to work any of them out through prayer or study. I don’t talk to God any more. I don’t read the Bible. I don’t try to reach conclusions about the “miracles” and “revelations” I experienced during those eleven years. I don’t try to reach conclusions about the existence of God or spiritual matters in general. I just concentrate on my daily bread.

I think I still live a very spiritual life. Material concerns are still very low priority for me. I’ve never become financially prosperous despite education and much hard work. I think I simply don’t care enough about it. But I feel very rich in spirit and beauty of life.

After a while I got the impression that I was just born with strong spiritual inclinations. Long before TWI and Christianity became a path for me I was a searcher. It seemed in retrospect that the Bible and prayer were like a magnifying glass for a light that I already bathed in naturally. It focused that spiritual energy on my life in a way that was more than I could manage. I felt like an ant holding a lens above my own head and burning myself up. I had to drop the magnifier and just live in the sunshine that was all around me or I would have disintegrated.

Does anyone relate to that image?

Since then my life has become more balanced. Step by step, I’ve made my way through the depression and isolation that always plagued me whether I was in TWI or anywhere else. Finally, in my fifties I’m living a contented life, giving comfort to my family and doing something I’m sure is worthwhile.

OK, one more thing. And maybe it’s kind of weird or silly or just more metaphysical bull pucky. But I sincerely want to know if it rings with the experiences of anyone else here.

When I came to this site five or six years ago, it had been a long, long time since I’d had any interest in what was going on with TWI or any of the offshoots. (Hence, my new screen name). I don’t remember what got me started but I guess I did a little search on the net to see what I might find about The Way. The name of this site was irresistible and once I started reading I was sucked in for at least several days: maybe longer. I don’t remember. But I was definitely obsessed with what people were sharing and entertained by the humor in the Corps forums. I connected with some old friends and got to thinking about lots of things. Possibly seeking out some fellowship in Phoenix.

Right at that time, in the middle of night there was sudden banging on my door and someone shouting, “Let me in”. It took me a while to get out of bed and to the door. By the time I opened it no one was there. I lived in a little cottage on some urban farm property in the South Mountain area of Phoenix, AZ. So, it was a pretty isolated, dark location. The next day I found out that a murder had taken place on an adjoining property and from the details I’m pretty sure that the guy banging on my door was the murderer looking for a place to hide – but he took off before I answered.

Now like I said, I know it’s silly right? But this really shook me. After the initial response, when I had time to think, it seemed like I had reached out and touched that forbidden thing again and weird violent crap just erupted around me.

I called a couple of old Way buddies to talk about it. But it didn’t help. I tried to reach a Christian therapist who had heard my whole Way International story in detail the year before – but she had decided God didn’t want her speaking to me anymore. I’m not superstitious, really; no rabbit’s foot, don’t care about black cats, walk under ladders and break mirrors regularly. But this shook me and scared me for some time.

Eventually I just let it go and moved on. But I really didn’t want to talk about TWI anymore. Then yesterday something moved me to look up this site again. Maybe I was just a little lonely and wanted to see if anyone I knew was around. I started to find topics that intrigued me and began to read and listen kind of obsessively again. And you know, a part of me felt like. Don’t do it. You can’t afford for something bad to happen right now. People are depending on you.

Here it is 20 years after I left that life behind and I still have this little, irrational fear of focusing on it or being near it.

Maybe I’m poking the tiger by sharing here again. Or, maybe I just want to face up to this weird, stupid thing in my brain; the idea that focusing on that part of my life will bring bad things. Can any of you relate, or am I just too weird to talk to?

[sirguessalot]

welcome to the cafe longgone...i admire your courage to tell this part of your story here.

and while i cant say i feel quite the way you do about danger and loss being associated with bible and prayer...i at least want to respond to let you know i read your post...and otherwise offer my witness. I am have experienced my share of danger and loss regardless of my relationship to the bible and prayer. Also, the danger and loss that can often come with expressing one's spirituality in conventional world.

i would be interested in hearing about how you commune with God...if only to break bread with a fellow traveler.

i can certainly relate to the loneliness and isolation of being a spiritual seeker...and an investigator of the interior life. I relate more to the desert fathers and mothers of Christianity than modern mainstream church life.

as such...a few things i can ask/suggest...

have you looked into other forms of spiritual counsel that are not as superstitious as the one you described...not as much about fixing as they are about listening and friendship? Quaker friendship practices come to mind. Also, a good "spiritual director" from the catholic tradition can help. Both are more about helping you hear your self into deeper awareness than they are about fixing.

also, if you are a reader, perhaps you might look into the notion of the "dark night of the soul" by "Saint" John of the Cross. His writings and experiences deal with the spiritual growth that comes from the in-between times of not knowing.

i am not catholic, nor do i lump all catholics into the same boat. Ive met too many monks and nuns that defy the stereotypes...and are not hung up on dogmatism.

there is something rich and authentic and wise about the contemplative and monastic Christian world that applies directly to "being alone together"...many arts and practices developed specifically for the inner life. 2 millenia of Christian history has generated a diverse range of effective prayer practices that are often overlooked by american protestantism.

also...if you are concerned about the danger that comes with getting closer to the christian bible...have you considered the jewish traditions? not as a belief system, but as another lineage rich with arts and wisdom that also deals with the inner life....stages of life...aging...etc...

or even a step further...buddhist or other eastern lineages? they are also rich with wisdom and actual practices for communing with the divine, finding answers, and basically helping find clarity on our paths. Ive seen too much to say they are dangerous or contrary to christianity.

but also again...i am not an official member of any of these religions. But nor do i lump them all in some flat equalizing way. Within each are depths and degrees of qualities of practices and experience. While they all seem rooted in common ground...there are also differences worth appreciating.

i wish you luck in your search. thanks again for sharing your conundrum here.

[waysider]

Hey there, longgone

Life sure can throw some weird stuff in your direction when you're not looking.

I don't usually try to assign too much deep meaning to any of it, though.

Maybe that's just how I am.

There was another poster here with the same handle a few years ago. He later changed his screen name to LG. I'm sorry to say, he passed away some time ago.

I'm looking forward to your contribution to this wacky place we call GSC.

Hope you like lemon meringue.

(It's on the house.)

[longgone]

Waysider,

Thanks for the pie. Yeah, not attaching too much meaning to any of life's weirdness is probably pretty good advice. And I think that's how I've been taking things for quite a while now. It was just odd to find that little fear still waiting in my brain when I decided to poke around this site again. But there is probably not a better answer what you suggest. So, far there have been no disasters worse than leaky faucets.

[Shellon]

I'd hoped to be able to contribute something helpful but as I consider your original thread and understand it more, I hope, I can only add that I think life is like that sometimes.

We get up every morning and do the best we can, do our best to make sound decisions and choices that aren't going to purposely hurt other people or ourselves and put head to pillow hoping it all went ok and we get another shot at it in the morning.

I include you in our prayers around here and hope that your answers are received. Hang out here if you want to and glean what works for you, toss what doesn't. For YOU!

[longgone]

sirguessalot,

Thanks for a very thoughtful reply. Funny you mention Catholic resources. I've been caring for my 90 year old mom for a few years now. She's a Catholic and in an effort to find things that will entertain and interest her we've read a few books and watched a bunch of movies about Catholic saints. I do find much that is inspiring and helpful in the lives of the saints. St. Theresa the Little Flower and her "Story of A Soul" has been very helpful to me while I find it necessary to let go of more and more of myself as my mother needs more and more from me. Other saints whose stories have moved me much are St. Francis of Assisi, St. John Bosco of Turin and St. Rita of Cascia.

My mom was in the habit of reading meditations and Catholic prayers every day. Now that it's become too difficult for her to focus all the way through them by herself I've begun to do her readings and recite her prayers with her. I don't really "pray", just read the prayers for and with her. But I've come to appreciate the beauty of the prayers and many of the meditations.

I don't think I would call the spirituality that I experience a "communion with God". It's more about having and expressing compassion and mercy, seeing the beauty that is around me and allowing it to feed me, being able to comfort and understand. I love St. Therese's "Little Way". I try to do the things I do with love and concern. I've learned to experience joy in letting go of myself for the sake of others. I don't find the concept of God necessary to achieve any of these things to the level that I need them in my life. If wanted to be a canonized saint one day - I'd probably need more than what I can achieve from within myself. But to simply be a contented and satisfied average human being, I can find these resources in myself.

If I'm wrong and God must exist and be at work in a man's life in order for him to have these qualities, then He must be willing to do it anonymously for me.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep the list in case I do regain an appetite some day. But I'm still full from all the reading I did when I was trying to learn more about God. I can't swallow even one thin spiritual mint. I couldn't say that I'm really searching anymore. Just living. But I might take a look at St. John of the Cross. Since I've seen how many Catholic saints went for years and years feeling that God was absent from some part of their lives, it's made me think more about the years when it seemed like He just wasn't interested in addressing the things that caused me so much pain. I'm curious about the journeys of those faithful. But, for myself - since I don't want to be a "saint" - I think if I ever have another Dark Night of the Soul, I'll just start taking Prozac again. It worked much better for me than a decade of prayer.

Your suggestion about Judaism is interesting too. I heard someone say the other day that Judaism is about what you do. What you believe is not as important. While Christianity places a great emphasis on beliefs. No matter what one does, one can't be a Christian without believing certain essentials. I don't worry myself much anymore about what I believe. I just try to do what seems right and do it well.

I'm glad to have a place like this to air out this part of my life. I guess I'm feeling a need to revisit something that has been packed away for a while. It will be interesting to see where it goes. Thanks for your thoughts.

[longgone]

"I think life is like that sometimes.

We get up every morning and do the best we can, do our best to make sound decisions and choices that aren't going to purposely hurt other people or ourselves and put head to pillow hoping it all went ok and we get another shot at it in the morning."

Shellon,

Thanks. That really does sum it up pretty well. And if I wrote it on napkin it would be easier to carry around than a bunch of research books too.

[Shellon]

Good idea, putting that, or anything that helps on a napkin! Fits better in the wallet too eh?

[Twinky]

Is this some of those coincidences that just happen? You know, like when you first learned to pray, and then when what you prayed for happened, you attributed it to God. And if it didn't happen you either attributed it to your own "lack of believing" or to "the adversary."

Now it's happening the other way round, are you attributing things that just happen randomly to pulling out your Bible again?

You've certainly had some unpleasant things happen to you, though.

If reading your Bible is not bringing peace to you - don't read it. God looks on the heart - not on the "works" of spending time reading just because you feel you ought to.

Get out there and live what you know, give what you can, and speak when spoken to...if asked.

And enjoy the time you have with your mum. It's good, what you're doing with her. And maybe it's God's way of helping you, too.

[longgone]

Twinky,

Thanks for your reply. This certainly is the best time of my life. Some personal breakthroughs that I've never been able to manage under any circumstances have finally become possible in this situation. And I know there is more to come.

Coincidences happen. As waysider and Shellon have suggested, maybe stuff just happens and it's not worthwhile to attach too much meaning. I've certainly experienced loss and some danger since I stopped thinking about God all the time too. But, it's been clearer to me where it's coming from when it does. I mean I can see that I've actually put myself at risk somehow or that there is a set of circumstances that explains my experience. Maybe I just see things more clearly because I'm not always looking through God glasses.

You know I don't think I really believe in some magic thing that might happen if I let myself study or pray. I just think that maybe there is something about me as a person that functions better through a different kind of filter.

[grand-daughter]

Hi Long,

I don't have any great words of wisdom with what you posted but do thank you for sharing. I have been through things in my life where I have attributed them to my stand on the word as well but not like you have shared here. I mean there is that verse about those who live godly = suffering persecution but I honestly believe we can't live our lives trying to associate every bad thing to that because we then may turn from God himself and or forget to see the good that He brings our way. I don't read like I use to. I have just chosen to love God my way and talk with him with no pressure to believe this or that. I adhere to the good and simple things like being kind and honest and let God teach me as I go along whatever He thinks I need to know and along with trusting He will do that I trust him to protect me if any harm should come my way for my beliefs. If He doesn't it is what it is and He'll sort it out in the end. :)

[longgone]

grand-daughter,

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. I think it has helped me to just throw this stuff out to this group and to discuss it a little. I especially liked what you said;

"If He doesn't it is what it is and He'll sort it out in the end."

The freedom to accept life as it comes is one thing that TWI wrong teaching really interfered with. In a previous reply Sirguessalot brought up the Catholic teachings along those lines. It's been helpful for me to hear about the lives of people with deep faith, and the actions to prove it, who went for years even decades without understanding why things were the way they were or even feeling separated from God in one way or another for long periods. Yet somehow this did not lessen their faith but rather increased it. I'm often put off by the degree of self sacrifice and suffering these individuals accepted and even sought out - but still I got the point, that you don't have to understand it for it to be OK. And it doesn't have to all work out rosy for it to be good.

I hope to read more of your story sometime.