I was involved in TWI, and during my time, was Corps and held some different levels of leadership positions. Obviously, I've declared independence, but am still & want to remain zealous for God. Life is really good for us.
Recently, its been on my heart to focus some attention in a specific category of life, and how to apply some Biblical principles in it. Obviously, it starts for my own benefit, but I would really enjoy helping others (whether they were with twi or not) in this category. Am I looking for self-glory or promotion....seriously, NO! Yet, I do not know of anyone else's ministry or church that focuses solely on this category (so it would be kind of a specialty ministry - not to replace other's community church or fellowship, but to provide resources and focus on one important category of life).
I'm not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that I think is right...and may be what God my Father wants me to do.
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?
I dunno.. but I have a few thoughts.
1. Don't charge. Anybody, for anything. No money for classes, books, etc. etc.. ever.
2. I wouldn't pass a plate or horn of plenty under any circumstances.. and if people offered money, I'd suggest giving to the Salvation Army, some kind of world children's fund, or SOMETHING of substantial character and effect.. maybe a denominational mainstream church..
That much would remove about 95 percent of my apprehension regarding anything considered "ex way"..
I was involved in TWI, and during my time, was Corps and held some different levels of leadership positions. Obviously, I've declared independence, but am still & want to remain zealous for God. Life is really good for us.
Recently, its been on my heart to focus some attention in a specific category of life, and how to apply some Biblical principles in it. Obviously, it starts for my own benefit, but I would really enjoy helping others (whether they were with twi or not) in this category. Am I looking for self-glory or promotion....seriously, NO! Yet, I do not know of anyone else's ministry or church that focuses solely on this category (so it would be kind of a specialty ministry - not to replace other's community church or fellowship, but to provide resources and focus on one important category of life).
I'm not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that I think is right...and may be what God my Father wants me to do.
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?
I see your point. No matter what you did someone would likely consider it splintered from the tree. Ya, someone would jump on it. In that regard, I still believe very strongly in God and Jesus Christ. If it's on your heart, do it according to the bible and let the criticisms fall where they may. Much respect for your efforts here.
If you have to solicit donations to give the thing a "kick start"..
I'd say it wouldn't exactly be "godly"..
Looking at ces, others.. once it's a "business".. it's really done for..
The moment you start charging for paper supplies, ink.. staples, binders.. you're really done.. if you can't afford a couple of bundles of paper, a cheap computer and printer.. maybe you should be able to afford it first..
If you have to solicit donations to give the thing a "kick start"..
I'd say it wouldn't exactly be "godly"..
Looking at ces, others.. once it's a "business".. it's really done for..
The moment you start charging for paper supplies, ink.. staples, binders.. you're really done.. if you can't afford a couple of bundles of paper, a cheap computer and printer.. maybe you should be able to afford it first..
Ya, you have a good point. TWI is so incredibly business centric that they have to help their way corps staff learn how to judge between ministerial functions and policy, business functions delineated by the Staff handbook, payroll manual and other business docs.
With that said. I think there is a pretty big difference between what TWI promotes with mandatory, minimum giving versus someone who wants to give from a cheerful heart and they have purposed to do so.
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'?
What church are you involved with now?
What has your Pastor, Rector, Priest, Parson, or Minister advised?
What other training besides Corps and way "leadership" do you have?
Seminary?, Classes? different churches since The Way?
I suppose technically you'd then be an offshoot of whoever your current church may be.
If you are starting something 'out of the blue' based on your 'leadership' in TWI without any affiliated background, subsequent training to way theology, or current spiritual oversight I know that I for one would think of you as an offshoot --mostly because thats where your training came from. Without any subsequent training or perceivable directional shift there is bound to be some overbleed from the past
Nothing against you personally (really! you asked for my opinion and Im giving it.) its a free country and you are free to do whatever you want.
I just happen to think TWI was a abherrent nonchristian monstrosity and by my way of thinking to base a ministry on what was learned there or the type of 'research' done there is folly.
What you want to do may be fine, but in a lot of minds until you show otherwise you will have a strike against you.
"a specific category of life, and how to apply some Biblical principles in it."
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?
My main suggestion is to lose the way-speak. I gave 2 examples above your question. No normal person talks like that.
My main suggestion is to lose the way-speak. I gave 2 examples above your question. No normal person talks like that.
My God, I started trying to lose the way speak when about two years before I left. After several years of a conscience effort to talk normal, I still catch that crap coming out of my mouth.
I was involved in TWI, and during my time, was Corps and held some different levels of leadership positions. Obviously, I've declared independence, but am still & want to remain zealous for God. Life is really good for us.
Recently, its been on my heart to focus some attention in a specific category of life, and how to apply some Biblical principles in it. Obviously, it starts for my own benefit, but I would really enjoy helping others (whether they were with twi or not) in this category. Am I looking for self-glory or promotion....seriously, NO! Yet, I do not know of anyone else's ministry or church that focuses solely on this category (so it would be kind of a specialty ministry - not to replace other's community church or fellowship, but to provide resources and focus on one important category of life).
I'm not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that I think is right...and may be what God my Father wants me to do.
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?
Since you asked an honest question, I'll throw in my two cents along with the others here.
Since you are asking how to avoid being "derided" as an offshoot of TWI just because you at one time were affiliated with it, the advice already given to not charge money and lose the "way-speak" vocabulary is great advice.
I would also add the following:
First, I would seriously ask myself some tough questions about the "biblical principles" you were taught (You didn't say from where, so I don't really know). Ask yourself what they really mean, what you understand about them, how you think they are to be interpreted, how do you apply them, how do you know you're applying them appropriately, and why you think they are good to begin with.
Next, I absolutely caution you about being "zealous for God" and encourage you, again, to question what that means and the effects it produces. Keep in mind some people's concept of God and what He or She does is not the same as yours. Too much zealousness leads to problems I think we're all very familiar with.
Next, If you're basing your ideas at all on TWI's style of research, (which you may not be) just remember TWI research led to teachings founded on the idea that there are originals of the Bible to "get back to," - they do not exist anywhere in the world except in people's minds. Therefore we can't make claims about them, since we've never seen them nor has anyone else.
Lastly, my experience after TWI when approached to join up with other ex-TWI people and start a group was to reject the idea. I discovered the basis for TWI research was the same as most other Christian groups within the framework of Fundamentalism. If I were you, I'd try and find a way outside this framework to "help people."
If you are interested, there are several topics being discussed here at the moment on this topic of offshoots. I suggest you give yourself the chance to read them. One is a discussion on my article currently on the front page, Nostalgia for TWI Research... . Since you are trying to avoid being in that camp, perhaps getting as much info about it as you can would help.
Best wishes for doing good in the world. IMO, we all need to ask ourselves, "what is the good we can do?"
I was involved in TWI, and during my time, was Corps and held some different levels of leadership positions. Obviously, I've declared independence, but am still & want to remain zealous for God. Life is really good for us.
...
Question - since I once had involvement with TWI - if I did this, would I then be a 'splinter group'? In such a case, is there any way one could start something, in godly sincerity, that wouldn't be derided as such?
I'm just curious why you even ask such a question...
Why would you even care?
If you're wanting to help people, then help them. It shouldn't matter what people label you as.
If you're worried about your PR, then you're already thinking like a business rather than solely focusing on helping others. And in which case, you might as well throw helping others out the window cause the business is what will eventually take over and become the primary focus!
My 1 1/2 cents.. Help people, where you can, when you can, with what you have, and leave the business, PR, and organizations for people who don't give a rat's behind about others..
While many start with good intentions, I have yet to find any that haven't left those once the organization became important. And I do include most churches, ministries, and 401ks in that group..
If you're doing good, then I, for one, salute you.
But since you're "not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that [you] think is right..." it seems you're merely concerned about perception, or PR, as another poster put it.
That being said, if you're building your "ministry" on PFAL foundations, in my book, you're an offshoot/splinter.
If you're doing good, then I, for one, salute you.
But since you're "not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that [you] think is right..." it seems you're merely concerned about perception, or PR, as another poster put it.
That being said, if you're building your "ministry" on PFAL foundations, in my book, you're an offshoot/splinter.
Agree. I retract my comment that you are "asking an honest question" until you show otherwise. It now seems a loaded question, which IMO is not USUALLY honest...
Commentator's notation: I seem to have fallen into the habit of qualifying everything I say recently. That's what a few knee-jerk responses to anything you say can push a person into doing. Oh well, for what my opinions are worth, good luck with your doing-good endeavor, Patriot.
If I were you, I would question my intentions. I would ask myself why do I feel the need to start my own thing? What do I want to accomplish? Could I find a group that's already established in a community? Personally, I'm not involved in organized religion but many people that I know are very involved in their churches. There are churches that help house the homeless, feed the hungry, encourage International adoption, raise money for those who don't have medical insurance, help the elderly stay in their homes, teach God's love from the pulpit, etc. etc. So, couldn't you find a church to meet your needs, and share your "area of concern" or do you think that what you know from TWI is so important that you need to be the "top dog?" Again, I would question my intentions and leave my ego at the door. What is this special area you want to address? Just curious!
Recommended Posts
Ham
I dunno.. but I have a few thoughts.
1. Don't charge. Anybody, for anything. No money for classes, books, etc. etc.. ever.
2. I wouldn't pass a plate or horn of plenty under any circumstances.. and if people offered money, I'd suggest giving to the Salvation Army, some kind of world children's fund, or SOMETHING of substantial character and effect.. maybe a denominational mainstream church..
That much would remove about 95 percent of my apprehension regarding anything considered "ex way"..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
I see your point. No matter what you did someone would likely consider it splintered from the tree. Ya, someone would jump on it. In that regard, I still believe very strongly in God and Jesus Christ. If it's on your heart, do it according to the bible and let the criticisms fall where they may. Much respect for your efforts here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
If you have to solicit donations to give the thing a "kick start"..
I'd say it wouldn't exactly be "godly"..
Looking at ces, others.. once it's a "business".. it's really done for..
The moment you start charging for paper supplies, ink.. staples, binders.. you're really done.. if you can't afford a couple of bundles of paper, a cheap computer and printer.. maybe you should be able to afford it first..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Ya, you have a good point. TWI is so incredibly business centric that they have to help their way corps staff learn how to judge between ministerial functions and policy, business functions delineated by the Staff handbook, payroll manual and other business docs.
With that said. I think there is a pretty big difference between what TWI promotes with mandatory, minimum giving versus someone who wants to give from a cheerful heart and they have purposed to do so.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
What church are you involved with now?
What has your Pastor, Rector, Priest, Parson, or Minister advised?
What other training besides Corps and way "leadership" do you have?
Seminary?, Classes? different churches since The Way?
I suppose technically you'd then be an offshoot of whoever your current church may be.
If you are starting something 'out of the blue' based on your 'leadership' in TWI without any affiliated background, subsequent training to way theology, or current spiritual oversight I know that I for one would think of you as an offshoot --mostly because thats where your training came from. Without any subsequent training or perceivable directional shift there is bound to be some overbleed from the past
Nothing against you personally (really! you asked for my opinion and Im giving it.) its a free country and you are free to do whatever you want.
I just happen to think TWI was a abherrent nonchristian monstrosity and by my way of thinking to base a ministry on what was learned there or the type of 'research' done there is folly.
What you want to do may be fine, but in a lot of minds until you show otherwise you will have a strike against you.
(evil associations and all that..)
just my 2cents
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
That was my next level of questions..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
My main suggestion is to lose the way-speak. I gave 2 examples above your question. No normal person talks like that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
My God, I started trying to lose the way speak when about two years before I left. After several years of a conscience effort to talk normal, I still catch that crap coming out of my mouth.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I think you have to examine two specific areas for similarities.
1. What is the lifestyle required/promoted?
2. What doctrines will you carry over?
(By this, I don't simply mean 4 crucified, H vs. h, dead are sleeping. etc.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Since you asked an honest question, I'll throw in my two cents along with the others here.
Since you are asking how to avoid being "derided" as an offshoot of TWI just because you at one time were affiliated with it, the advice already given to not charge money and lose the "way-speak" vocabulary is great advice.
I would also add the following:
First, I would seriously ask myself some tough questions about the "biblical principles" you were taught (You didn't say from where, so I don't really know). Ask yourself what they really mean, what you understand about them, how you think they are to be interpreted, how do you apply them, how do you know you're applying them appropriately, and why you think they are good to begin with.
Next, I absolutely caution you about being "zealous for God" and encourage you, again, to question what that means and the effects it produces. Keep in mind some people's concept of God and what He or She does is not the same as yours. Too much zealousness leads to problems I think we're all very familiar with.
Next, If you're basing your ideas at all on TWI's style of research, (which you may not be) just remember TWI research led to teachings founded on the idea that there are originals of the Bible to "get back to," - they do not exist anywhere in the world except in people's minds. Therefore we can't make claims about them, since we've never seen them nor has anyone else.
Lastly, my experience after TWI when approached to join up with other ex-TWI people and start a group was to reject the idea. I discovered the basis for TWI research was the same as most other Christian groups within the framework of Fundamentalism. If I were you, I'd try and find a way outside this framework to "help people."
If you are interested, there are several topics being discussed here at the moment on this topic of offshoots. I suggest you give yourself the chance to read them. One is a discussion on my article currently on the front page, Nostalgia for TWI Research... . Since you are trying to avoid being in that camp, perhaps getting as much info about it as you can would help.
Best wishes for doing good in the world. IMO, we all need to ask ourselves, "what is the good we can do?"
Peace,
Charlene
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrustAndObey
I'm just curious why you even ask such a question...
Why would you even care?
If you're wanting to help people, then help them. It shouldn't matter what people label you as.
If you're worried about your PR, then you're already thinking like a business rather than solely focusing on helping others. And in which case, you might as well throw helping others out the window cause the business is what will eventually take over and become the primary focus!
My 1 1/2 cents.. Help people, where you can, when you can, with what you have, and leave the business, PR, and organizations for people who don't give a rat's behind about others..
While many start with good intentions, I have yet to find any that haven't left those once the organization became important. And I do include most churches, ministries, and 401ks in that group..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
If you're doing good, then I, for one, salute you.
But since you're "not asking for anyone's blessing or permission, nor will be persuaded or dissuaded from an endeavor that [you] think is right..." it seems you're merely concerned about perception, or PR, as another poster put it.
That being said, if you're building your "ministry" on PFAL foundations, in my book, you're an offshoot/splinter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ClayJay
Whatever you do Patriot, do NOT use a Bible, for, those things were used in PFAL.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Agree. I retract my comment that you are "asking an honest question" until you show otherwise. It now seems a loaded question, which IMO is not USUALLY honest...
Commentator's notation: I seem to have fallen into the habit of qualifying everything I say recently. That's what a few knee-jerk responses to anything you say can push a person into doing. Oh well, for what my opinions are worth, good luck with your doing-good endeavor, Patriot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
taxicab
If I were you, I would question my intentions. I would ask myself why do I feel the need to start my own thing? What do I want to accomplish? Could I find a group that's already established in a community? Personally, I'm not involved in organized religion but many people that I know are very involved in their churches. There are churches that help house the homeless, feed the hungry, encourage International adoption, raise money for those who don't have medical insurance, help the elderly stay in their homes, teach God's love from the pulpit, etc. etc. So, couldn't you find a church to meet your needs, and share your "area of concern" or do you think that what you know from TWI is so important that you need to be the "top dog?" Again, I would question my intentions and leave my ego at the door. What is this special area you want to address? Just curious!
Edited by taxicabLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.