The gospel of Judas was not found until the 1970's. I also doubt Wierwille had any interest in researching more than he had to in order to support his theology. He did rely on his own take on the Pauline epistles fairly exclusively. That is a gnostic trait. He really didn't have to embrace the gnostic gospels to embrace some gnosticism.
He made it up as he went along or with revelation from "father" and qualifying distinctions of what applied to us and what was for our learning.
It has been pretty well documented by some people in here, that VPW cobbled together teachings from other writers,preachers and so forth. VPW simply repackaged what these people said, into his own workable format. The important thing was, they provided material which was acceptable to many religious organizations, many things which were pretty acceptable stuff. But when VPW added his private touch to these things, he did it to massacre certain bible versus, to cleverly manipulate and control.
Its also interesting that Wierwille took scholor EW Bullingers work along. Some of Bullingers work was complex, interesting but very difficult to assimulate. Its also fascinating that Wierwille backloaded the bible, by casting doubt on some bible verses as to wether they were in the originals. (Some people might find it interesting that the same material is a feature from a Professor (cant remember his name) who also has highlighted the same material in a book recently to cast doubt on the bible also.) Former TWI people who have kept there faith, might find that intriguing because the book caused quite a stir amongst some believers, because people thought it was new information when it has been out there for a long time.
But Dr Wierdo added some weird stuff like the 4 crucified with Christ, (as if it mattered) and then the he didnt believe in the Trinity stuff. Its my opinion, it was all deliberate, because VPW didnt want people who wouldnt think and do what he wanted around him. The four crucified with Christ stuff, provided a nice litmus test as too who would believe the Quack Doctor.
I think its also fascinating, that Dr Wierdo was clever enough not to mention his weird sexual appetitites except to his closer ups, or perhaps only when he was discovered. In that way the rank and file, and the ones on lower rung, would never quite have enough reason, to know what he was all about. (Even to this day, who knew what about certain things is pretty much an individual question.)
But Dr. Wierdo was clever enough, to know he couldnt make his cult run without: 1) some well established material which people couldnt question and 2) a FEW things that were really off the wall nuts, just enough to DISTINGUISH himself from every other religious organizion. Pure Savagery.
You might find it interesting, that I ran into a preacher years ago who was very much like Dr. Weirdo. This particular guy, has never been involved in TWI at all. They are similar is this one respect: Neither VPW or this guy ever met a bible verse that was complete unless they inserted themselves into the bible verse. But that is where there similarities (as far as biblical interpetation end) VPW method was to infer nobody could “rightly divide” or understand the bible without his guiding hand and that of his “biblical research team.”
This other guys methods are far different. One time he was giving a teaching on Hebrews 2:14. (Look it up if you want) Anyway he focused on two phrases in there, “partakers” and Jesus who “took part”. By focusing on these two phases he basically massacred the entire bible verse. Basically he just tells great big long stories about himself, to let you know what a take partaker and “took parter” in the gospel he is. (Just like Richard Dawkins he is a great story teller.) Then when he is finished he polishes you off, by letting you know that God doesnt like people who want to be the “big cheese.” Since I was sitting in small group of people who were listening to this screwball, I couldnt for the life of me understand who he was referring to as the “big cheese.” Then it donned on me that if you questioned his oratory in any way, that is what being the big cheese was. After I was fortunate enough to get away from this dude, I started thinking how comical it was. This guy actually has like these weird facial contortions when he is preaching, it was like he was having a seizure when he was delivering his message. After he got warmed up his head would start to gyrate; somewhat like a bobble head doll. It kind of reminded me of an old Elvis clip, they way Elvis used to shake his hips. Then if you asked him a question he would stop and appear in deep meditative thought or a trance like state. And it was weird because basically his whole message was about a bunch of stories. It’s actually really hard to describe unless you have heard one of his messages. You kind of feel like the message was delivered to thousands of people even tho there was only about 10 people listening. Its because he put so much drama and facial contortions into the message, that, that alone was the messages chief prevailing point.
Whatever the case, after listening to an hours worth of his personal stories, I will never have the same view of Hebrews 2:14 again, not ever. The content of the bible verse is too establish as fact, that Jesus Christ took on a body of mortal flesh that was in all respect like us, with the only exception he had no sin and was blameless. When this guy was finished that fact was basically massacred because his entire tone of the message was to establish the HE, this guy, was the only clown in town who knew what that was all about. That is just the opposite of the bible verse. The bible verse is there specifically so that we can relate our own human weaknesses, with that of our saviour Jesus Christ. The bible verse it there to let us know that we can relate in our humanity, easily with Jesus Christ.
You know there are deceivers and then there are deceivers. If somebody has got the goods they don’t have to convince you of there personal wherewithal. If you have the goods the bible says your suppose to live it as an example. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I am glad it is just that simple, so that if I were to let a charlaton run me around like this clown, well the reason is within my own insecurity. The only reason people like this ever have a chance of succeeding is that people are insecure in there own beast. Then screwballs like this guy seize on that insecurity to bolster themselves as your self appointed know it all. Never by example alone, but by grandiose messages that have no content of value.
The only reason people like this ever have a chance of succeeding is that people are insecure in there own beast. Then screwballs like this guy seize on that insecurity to bolster themselves as your self appointed know it all. Never by example alone, but by grandiose messages that have no content of value.
Indeed! It would seem, unfortunately, that religion can be a breeding ground for someone who wishes to bolster themselves above others and find followers.."sheeps in wolves' clothing I guess. This gives them opportunity to exert control over others' lives. There always seems to be some around who will let them do just that. I suppose we better be careful here because we're starting to stray off the topic.
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WordWolf
Just from my thinking, in my opinion, vpw was an inferior, lazy researcher who cut corners
whenever and wherever he could, and goofed off whenever and wherever he could.
Thus, I don't think he relied on a text or system that was in existence- he would have had
to FIND it first, and that would have taken WORK. Even to STUMBLE ACROSS something useful
takes working on something else and finding it by accident, which, again, brings us back to
doing WORK.
Since vpw went to the House of Acts and Haight-Ashbury LOOKING for justifications and excuses
to claim that God permitted ORGIES and the like, I conclude vpw hadn't FOUND a sufficient
pretext to claim that. (He didn't find one THERE, either.) I think vpw cobbled together what
he wanted after being unable to find what he wanted prefabricated.
Those who want to follow up on this a little might want to look up a few terms....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#The_main_features_of_gnosticism
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Spoudazo
The gospel of Judas was not found until the 1970's. I also doubt Wierwille had any interest in researching more than he had to in order to support his theology. He did rely on his own take on the Pauline epistles fairly exclusively. That is a gnostic trait. He really didn't have to embrace the gnostic gospels to embrace some gnosticism.
He made it up as he went along or with revelation from "father" and qualifying distinctions of what applied to us and what was for our learning.
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sky4it
It has been pretty well documented by some people in here, that VPW cobbled together teachings from other writers,preachers and so forth. VPW simply repackaged what these people said, into his own workable format. The important thing was, they provided material which was acceptable to many religious organizations, many things which were pretty acceptable stuff. But when VPW added his private touch to these things, he did it to massacre certain bible versus, to cleverly manipulate and control.
Its also interesting that Wierwille took scholor EW Bullingers work along. Some of Bullingers work was complex, interesting but very difficult to assimulate. Its also fascinating that Wierwille backloaded the bible, by casting doubt on some bible verses as to wether they were in the originals. (Some people might find it interesting that the same material is a feature from a Professor (cant remember his name) who also has highlighted the same material in a book recently to cast doubt on the bible also.) Former TWI people who have kept there faith, might find that intriguing because the book caused quite a stir amongst some believers, because people thought it was new information when it has been out there for a long time.
But Dr Wierdo added some weird stuff like the 4 crucified with Christ, (as if it mattered) and then the he didnt believe in the Trinity stuff. Its my opinion, it was all deliberate, because VPW didnt want people who wouldnt think and do what he wanted around him. The four crucified with Christ stuff, provided a nice litmus test as too who would believe the Quack Doctor.
I think its also fascinating, that Dr Wierdo was clever enough not to mention his weird sexual appetitites except to his closer ups, or perhaps only when he was discovered. In that way the rank and file, and the ones on lower rung, would never quite have enough reason, to know what he was all about. (Even to this day, who knew what about certain things is pretty much an individual question.)
But Dr. Wierdo was clever enough, to know he couldnt make his cult run without: 1) some well established material which people couldnt question and 2) a FEW things that were really off the wall nuts, just enough to DISTINGUISH himself from every other religious organizion. Pure Savagery.
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waysider
Nice post, sky4it
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Broken Arrow
I agree with Waysider. Interesting insights Sky4it.
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sky4it
Thanks for the compliment waysider, appreciated, and too you also erkjohn.
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sky4it
You might find it interesting, that I ran into a preacher years ago who was very much like Dr. Weirdo. This particular guy, has never been involved in TWI at all. They are similar is this one respect: Neither VPW or this guy ever met a bible verse that was complete unless they inserted themselves into the bible verse. But that is where there similarities (as far as biblical interpetation end) VPW method was to infer nobody could “rightly divide” or understand the bible without his guiding hand and that of his “biblical research team.”
This other guys methods are far different. One time he was giving a teaching on Hebrews 2:14. (Look it up if you want) Anyway he focused on two phrases in there, “partakers” and Jesus who “took part”. By focusing on these two phases he basically massacred the entire bible verse. Basically he just tells great big long stories about himself, to let you know what a take partaker and “took parter” in the gospel he is. (Just like Richard Dawkins he is a great story teller.) Then when he is finished he polishes you off, by letting you know that God doesnt like people who want to be the “big cheese.” Since I was sitting in small group of people who were listening to this screwball, I couldnt for the life of me understand who he was referring to as the “big cheese.” Then it donned on me that if you questioned his oratory in any way, that is what being the big cheese was. After I was fortunate enough to get away from this dude, I started thinking how comical it was. This guy actually has like these weird facial contortions when he is preaching, it was like he was having a seizure when he was delivering his message. After he got warmed up his head would start to gyrate; somewhat like a bobble head doll. It kind of reminded me of an old Elvis clip, they way Elvis used to shake his hips. Then if you asked him a question he would stop and appear in deep meditative thought or a trance like state. And it was weird because basically his whole message was about a bunch of stories. It’s actually really hard to describe unless you have heard one of his messages. You kind of feel like the message was delivered to thousands of people even tho there was only about 10 people listening. Its because he put so much drama and facial contortions into the message, that, that alone was the messages chief prevailing point.
Whatever the case, after listening to an hours worth of his personal stories, I will never have the same view of Hebrews 2:14 again, not ever. The content of the bible verse is too establish as fact, that Jesus Christ took on a body of mortal flesh that was in all respect like us, with the only exception he had no sin and was blameless. When this guy was finished that fact was basically massacred because his entire tone of the message was to establish the HE, this guy, was the only clown in town who knew what that was all about. That is just the opposite of the bible verse. The bible verse is there specifically so that we can relate our own human weaknesses, with that of our saviour Jesus Christ. The bible verse it there to let us know that we can relate in our humanity, easily with Jesus Christ.
You know there are deceivers and then there are deceivers. If somebody has got the goods they don’t have to convince you of there personal wherewithal. If you have the goods the bible says your suppose to live it as an example. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I am glad it is just that simple, so that if I were to let a charlaton run me around like this clown, well the reason is within my own insecurity. The only reason people like this ever have a chance of succeeding is that people are insecure in there own beast. Then screwballs like this guy seize on that insecurity to bolster themselves as your self appointed know it all. Never by example alone, but by grandiose messages that have no content of value.
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Broken Arrow
Indeed! It would seem, unfortunately, that religion can be a breeding ground for someone who wishes to bolster themselves above others and find followers.."sheeps in wolves' clothing I guess. This gives them opportunity to exert control over others' lives. There always seems to be some around who will let them do just that. I suppose we better be careful here because we're starting to stray off the topic.
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Twinky
More like VPW and the no-stick gospels.
Since by the time he'd finished, there wasn't much of the gospel sticking around.
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