Debate

[year2027]

God first

Debate!

10-21-2009

Do you know how a debate works? I give my side on a given subject then you give some reason not to agree with me. But I do hear people try to changed things by saying I am talking evil or change the subject to color.

I get upset why would you think that because I get tired of saying, “love Roy” and end the subject but that does get us anywhere. I read every thing that is wrote to me and I look up words if needed many words where try to belittle me and other things.

A friend that was trying to get my attention “My Confession – Magnus Betner @ Comedy2go” but it help more than one would think. Now this video is against my person’s believes but I got a laugh because I could see Jesus Christ wearing a dress.

Now this video is a person’s view that I do not agree with but I can see where they coming from and how the person got there. It does not matter that I do not agree with his views but I listen to his heart and he heard my views.

That is how a debate works a point is made that you may not agree with then you give opposing view about the point someone made. But it get to mad people can you not debate without getting mad do you understand what I am saying.

Every question is a fare thing even if you do not the question and every question has a good repose to it there are many sides to everything. God has many points but so does Atheist have many points but just because my view is God’s view it does mean I do not want to listen to yours.

I might say thanks or I might try to change your mind but I have a right to not agree with you. But you have no right no right call me names or change the point I gave you because you want to made me upset thank you with love Roy.

[JeffSjo]

but just because my view is God’s view it does mean I do not want to listen to yours.

Hi Roy,

It's been a while since we exchanged points and it did not go badly last time. :)

One time I brought up that I would wait and see if a particular dream was from God or not. You took it well and admitted that such things would be proven and are worth questioning. It was a very good exchange that we left off without coming to any premature conclusions.

I have heard that you have said a few things that the mods just flat out removed from GSC because of the content. If what I heard that you said was accurate I would have been more than happy to explore your willingness to debate issues. Since the mods removed the items I see no point in getting into any further than this though, so I will let it rest.

I think you meant that "It does NOT mean I do not want to listen to yours." But that is not why I posted, it is a small thing.

The reason why I posted is I am wondering how you would do if I chose to take you up on any given day on the fact that you feel that YOUR VIEW is GOD'S VIEW. And while I think it evident that we all have the right to seek God's will on any given topic as it relates to our own lives, I have never met anyone I would consider to be sound who could make such a boast as you did. Maybe you did not intend it as a blanket statement Roy, maybe I misunderstand how you really mean it, but if you made that claim in a particular topic that I found objectionable I would very likely take you up on your offer to debate and/or exchange opinions.

(added the second paragraph in editing)

Edited October 21, 2009 by JeffSjo

[year2027]

God first

hi JeffSjo

yes my view is God but you much remember we only understand in part

so the part I get right is God's view

but the part that I wrong is mime

you can not see the line because not one

on everything I say is only part right

we are in fellowship and out

because are only human but God is only spiritual

love Roy

Edited October 21, 2009 by year2027

[JeffSjo]

O.K. Roy,

So is it hard or impossible to deal with somebody believing that the part you believe is God is wrong?

I find it hard, but not impossible. And in some cases considering my TWI and splinter group history I have found that input directly contradicting things that I "THOUGHT" were "the God part" have been the most valuable of all. But sometimes folks are soooo reactionary that they immediately get offended and declare the one who contradicts their own private "God part" as a heretic or worse.

(added to for clarity)

Edited October 22, 2009 by JeffSjo

[year2027]

God first

hi JeffSjo

thanks your words have blessed me

love Roy

[Shifra]

Hi Jeff and Roy

I think it's interesting that this topic is being discussed, because in TWI, there was no opportunity to debate ... anything! Nobody learned how to genuinely respect anyone else's opinion - or to even have an opinion of our own; instead we were REQUIRED to echo anything and everything that the "leadership" told us. On top of that, we all learned very quickly to imitate the righteous indignation of that leadership, whenever we were exposed to any non-Way thinking, especially ideas developed or put forth by other church groups.

This made it really hard for a lot of us when we left the Way, because even though we no longer accepted TWI doctrine, we were so absolutely saturated with it (including the rejection of outside ideas), that it became difficult to relate to the real world. Gradually, most of us have learned to put such narrow-mindedness behind us, and move forward to a place of learning from others and actually being respectful to differing opinions.

I love the stuff you write, Roy. 'Haven't been around GS for awhile, but maybe I'll stop by more often again. -Shifra.

[year2027]

God first

hi Shifra

I glad you did stop to hear me and JeffSjo views

and I glad you found them helpful

thanks Roy

Edited October 23, 2009 by year2027

[Ham]

The reason why I posted is I am wondering how you would do if I chose to take you up on any given day on the fact that you feel that YOUR VIEW is GOD'S VIEW.

maybe that's the whole point. Ever consider the creator wants to be debated?

Maybe he just chose to be *us*..

[year2027]

God first

hi Ham

if we did not try to debate God would be a Dictator but God not

that we can have both views

some think America is a Dictatorship country now

but I do not just I see God as real freedom more than we have in America

so God see everybody points

and picks the one where no one thinks is right

we are all just children trying to learn right from wrong

is it right to kill no it not

but is it right to let another suffer in pain

you see how hard it is sometimes

love Roy

[T-Bone]

Hi Roy, I always enjoy checking out your posts. I think my feelings toward debate keep changing and I don't really get into it much outside of Grease Spot. Maybe that's because I never liked confrontation. It's a little bit "safer" at Grease Spot – I don't have to look somebody in the eye – just say my piece and move on. And maybe I've vented enough about my frustrations & mental baggage here that most things don't get me riled up.

But something I still feel passionate enough about to dive into the fray is a good discussion over the convoluted, debilitating and insidious TWI mindset folks adopt. I spent 12 years of my life entangled with their goofy doctrines & practices to know THAT is definitely NOT a healthy or sane viewpoint.

I find many viewpoints interesting and I'm thankful for the wide variety of beliefs here. Nobody has the whole picture. Most of the time I'm not even sure I have the right viewpoint on something. My pea brain can't imagine what God's viewpoint is – and believe so much of His grace actually filters out through people that cross my path.

I tend to be hyper-critical of myself – and that is intentional. Perhaps that's the technician in me. A smart technician is one who values humility & honesty. It's a waste of time and just plain dumb to try to fix anything when your diagnostic tools are screwed up. Doesn't mean I'm that way all the time or even most of the time – just that I appreciate those virtues when I do manage to hit the mark.

After being burned by pride and self-delusion ala TWI mindset – humility & honesty [when I actually do take those "baby steps" once in awhile] feels like such a healing balm or a couple of old friends. Maybe humility in a debate is admitting to myself I don't have all my ducks in a row and honesty is the courage to make that known to the rest.

Some debates are good just for boiling down all the points until we're left with this highly visible platter of articulated assumptions that have been in the background eluding the main discussion. Once they're out in the open then the real fun begins. Sometimes it gets nasty and sometimes everyone just stands back and says "gee, I see we've gotten to the place where the only thing we've nailed down is this or that assumption cannot be proved or disproved." Then we all make a toast with our favorite beverage and say goodnight.

[edited because I'm a hyper-critic - dang, dang, dang this mindset!]

Edited October 23, 2009 by T-Bone

[year2027]

God first

hi T-Bone

thanks I was bless to read that

i am glad you debate us here

I wish I could with your love

thank you

with love and a holy kiss Roy

[T-Bone]

Roy, here's the real story behind some recent news.. . I'm all about investigative reporting dontcha know

Edited November 4, 2009 by T-Bone

[year2027]

God first

hi T-Bone

I never would know that thanks now we know the real truth

thank you

with love and a holy kiss Roy