In retrospect.......EVERYTHING in twi seemed to have an agenda of control !!!
And, I have to remind myself that wierwille was 55 years old in 1971.....and the clock was ticking on what he wanted to "accomplish." Now, EVERYTHING IS SUSPECT as to what wierwille was really pushing....and the 100 pages here at GS expose it all.
I think that The Way was a scam from the very beginning. Wierwille, over a period of several years, logically, systematically and methodically built an organization that was essentially an MLM hiding behind a religious facade. In my opinion, Wierwille was fully aware of the true nature of the business. But, in later years, I think he may have actually come to believe the organization was really what he had been purporting it to be. Maybe his delusions were the result of chronic alcohol abuse. Maybe he suffered from late stage syphilis. Maybe there was some pathological abnormality, such as a brain tumor, causing his irrational behavior. Or maybe something entirely different, such as mental illness, was the cause. I simply don't know. If I had allowed myself to consider these issues with a logical and independent approach, I might not have fallen into the "likemindedness" trap that was so vital to the success of The Way. Shame on me.
I dunno.. maybe the pendulum has swung far in the other direction for me, or maybe not.. Is it possible to be independent enough that one refuses to define the creator anymore?
I mean.. I tried that once, or was that twice, or three times..
I am not really independent. . . . I depend on others for many things. . . . I need to be Pastored. . . . I need fellowship with other Christians. . . . and
I am completely and utterly dependent on God. I depend on teachers to provoke thought, to challenge me. . . . . Depend heavily on hubby. . . .
I need an army to keep me straight.
Sometimes people here help me.
You have a bad meal in a restaurant you stay away from that particular chain, but you still have to eat.
I am a sheep(baaah). . . I have to be lead or I will wander, but now I just let the Chief Shepherd lead me. Now I recognize his voice.
Independence isn't all that great. . . . you just end up separated and alone. I like a flock. :)
which is a good point. But I'll add.. the "Shepherd" has to be a heck of a lot smarter than me. i.e... he must find me. I've tried the scenario the other way around..
I'm not denying His existence or anything..
life is too big to be about just *me*..
I mean.. He has to be bigger than me, doesn't he? Or at least I would hope..
which is a good point. But I'll add.. the "Shepherd" has to be a heck of a lot smarter than me. i.e... he must find me. I've tried the scenario the other way around..
I'm not denying His existence or anything..
life is too big to be about just *me*..
I mean.. He has to be bigger than me, doesn't he? Or at least I would hope..
What is it you are looking for Ham? Hasn't He already come and declared God. . . . doesn't He invite you? You already know what He says. . . .
Come unto Me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take the rest. Take what is offered. Count the cost, and decide. . . .
follow Him. He asked you. He already found you. You just have to accept the offer. Doesn't really get more complicated than that. :)
I am not really independent. . . . I depend on others for many things. . . . I need to be Pastored. . . . I need fellowship with other Christians. . . . and
I am completely and utterly dependent on God. I depend on teachers to provoke thought, to challenge me. . . . . Depend heavily on hubby. . . .
I need an army to keep me straight.
Sometimes people here help me.
You have a bad meal in a restaurant you stay away from that particular chain, but you still have to eat.
I am a sheep(baaah). . . I have to be lead or I will wander, but now I just let the Chief Shepherd lead me. Now I recognize his voice.
Independence isn't all that great. . . . you just end up separated and alone. I like a flock. :)
Gee....I certainly don't look at INDEPENDENCE as living in Wyoming, in a mountain shack, growing my own garden, field-stripping deer, trapping and fishing and isolated from all civilization. hahahahaha
Maybe I should qualify being "fiercely independent"......??
Fiercely independent.........from subtle hireling shepherds and pastors.
Fiercely independent.........from "it takes a village" collectivism.
Fiercely independent.........from another offshoot coming down the pike.
Fiercely independent.........and yet, mixing with good folk here at GS.
Fiercely independent.........from "it takes a village" collectivism.
***
As far I can tell TWI had no cooperative-this is best for all of us-lets work out a mutually beneficial schedule/activity/system to meet needs attitude. People TRIED to act like a community that cared for each other, but more often than not, those with 'needs' were dumped, the peasants served whether it was best for them or not, best for their family or not. Leaders of course, benefited, because they arranged things to make their own lives easier, to which the peasants could only say 'yes sir'. People scrambled to try and get their needs met, secretly stressed, while trying to keep up with the latest hoop jumping requirements.
It's hard to have any type of village or community when people are desperate and self involved, with no time or--eventually--no resources or desire to help or give.
Gee....I certainly don't look at INDEPENDENCE as living in Wyoming, in a mountain shack, growing my own garden, field-stripping deer, trapping and fishing and isolated from all civilization. hahahahaha
Maybe I should qualify being "fiercely independent"......??
Fiercely independent.........from subtle hireling shepherds and pastors.
Fiercely independent.........from "it takes a village" collectivism.
Fiercely independent.........from another offshoot coming down the pike.
Fiercely independent.........and yet, mixing with good folk here at GS.
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penworks
...."biblical research" became wierwille-endorsed interpretations of scripture."
I think there is plenty of evidence to show this did not "become;" it was from the start...
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Tzaia
My take:
With the turning of the screws.....
...."biblical research" is wierwille-endorsed interpretations of scripture.
...."transformed by the renewing of your mind" is waybrain.
...."service to God" is service to twi and abysmally to sexually serving a mog.
...."wooden-spoon doctrine" is "it takes a rome city village."
...."way corps volunteers" are slaves to the master teacher.
...."present truth" is the revolution against one's free will.
...."obey your leadership" is hierarchal distance from you and twi's throne.
....tithing (10%) became abundant sharing (15-20%) and twi wanted plurality giving (20-50%).
...."vpw the teacher" escalated to "wierwille the mog" to "wierwille our father in the word."
....a wow commitment ---> a 4-yr corps commitment ---> a lifetime of twi service
....to stay corps (1995) one MUST become full-time corps
....then, no pets....no pregnancies (w/o permission)....no cable tv....no music lessons for kids, etc.
....the twi-mandates are a monk servitude.
DO NOT sugar-coat this.
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skyrider
Gee......I'm trying NOT to.
In retrospect.......EVERYTHING in twi seemed to have an agenda of control !!!
And, I have to remind myself that wierwille was 55 years old in 1971.....and the clock was ticking on what he wanted to "accomplish." Now, EVERYTHING IS SUSPECT as to what wierwille was really pushing....and the 100 pages here at GS expose it all.
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waysider
Here's my theory.
I think that The Way was a scam from the very beginning. Wierwille, over a period of several years, logically, systematically and methodically built an organization that was essentially an MLM hiding behind a religious facade. In my opinion, Wierwille was fully aware of the true nature of the business. But, in later years, I think he may have actually come to believe the organization was really what he had been purporting it to be. Maybe his delusions were the result of chronic alcohol abuse. Maybe he suffered from late stage syphilis. Maybe there was some pathological abnormality, such as a brain tumor, causing his irrational behavior. Or maybe something entirely different, such as mental illness, was the cause. I simply don't know. If I had allowed myself to consider these issues with a logical and independent approach, I might not have fallen into the "likemindedness" trap that was so vital to the success of The Way. Shame on me.
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Ham
I dunno.. maybe the pendulum has swung far in the other direction for me, or maybe not.. Is it possible to be independent enough that one refuses to define the creator anymore?
I mean.. I tried that once, or was that twice, or three times..
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geisha779
I am not really independent. . . . I depend on others for many things. . . . I need to be Pastored. . . . I need fellowship with other Christians. . . . and
I am completely and utterly dependent on God. I depend on teachers to provoke thought, to challenge me. . . . . Depend heavily on hubby. . . .
I need an army to keep me straight.
Sometimes people here help me.
You have a bad meal in a restaurant you stay away from that particular chain, but you still have to eat.
I am a sheep(baaah). . . I have to be lead or I will wander, but now I just let the Chief Shepherd lead me. Now I recognize his voice.
Independence isn't all that great. . . . you just end up separated and alone. I like a flock. :)
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Ham
which is a good point. But I'll add.. the "Shepherd" has to be a heck of a lot smarter than me. i.e... he must find me. I've tried the scenario the other way around..
I'm not denying His existence or anything..
life is too big to be about just *me*..
I mean.. He has to be bigger than me, doesn't he? Or at least I would hope..
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geisha779
What is it you are looking for Ham? Hasn't He already come and declared God. . . . doesn't He invite you? You already know what He says. . . .
Come unto Me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take the rest. Take what is offered. Count the cost, and decide. . . .
follow Him. He asked you. He already found you. You just have to accept the offer. Doesn't really get more complicated than that. :)
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sirguessalot
congrats...i love the word "fierce"
having experienced individual dependence
and collective dependence
we experience individual independence
perhaps next is collective independence
followed by individual interdependence
then collective interdependence
maybe there is even a Christian version of each
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sirguessalot
not even close...but i think i get your point
the depths and degrees of service in the world's monastic histories
are worlds apart from the kind of servitude we were being herded to in twi
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skyrider
Gee....I certainly don't look at INDEPENDENCE as living in Wyoming, in a mountain shack, growing my own garden, field-stripping deer, trapping and fishing and isolated from all civilization. hahahahaha
Maybe I should qualify being "fiercely independent"......??
Fiercely independent.........from subtle hireling shepherds and pastors.
Fiercely independent.........from "it takes a village" collectivism.
Fiercely independent.........from another offshoot coming down the pike.
Fiercely independent.........and yet, mixing with good folk here at GS.
:)
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Bramble
Fiercely independent.........from "it takes a village" collectivism.
***
As far I can tell TWI had no cooperative-this is best for all of us-lets work out a mutually beneficial schedule/activity/system to meet needs attitude. People TRIED to act like a community that cared for each other, but more often than not, those with 'needs' were dumped, the peasants served whether it was best for them or not, best for their family or not. Leaders of course, benefited, because they arranged things to make their own lives easier, to which the peasants could only say 'yes sir'. People scrambled to try and get their needs met, secretly stressed, while trying to keep up with the latest hoop jumping requirements.
It's hard to have any type of village or community when people are desperate and self involved, with no time or--eventually--no resources or desire to help or give.
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geisha779
Good plan. :)
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