Please forgive me if this topic has been covered before. There were certain books that were required reading when we were in the Way Corps as well as before entering into the Way Corps. For example, I remember reading "The Myth of the Six Million." If anyone who hasn't been in The Corps would like to add book titles that were recommended to them by Way Believer's I would be interested in knowing about them as well.
On the other side of the coin, I would be interested in a list of books that we were encouraged to get rid of "Burn The Chaff". I remember someone telling me that the beloved children's book "Good Night Moon" was "devilish" because one page was in black and white and then the next page was in color. Interesting theory
I'd have to dig out my Corps journals buried in the attic – but I do remember us having to read "Bedside Manners" during a Christian Family & Sex class – I also remember vp being there for some of it – this was around the time of the infamous pj party with him showing his favorite porn video and getting lewd with a sixteen year old junior Corps girl.
I don't remember being required to read much of anything outside of the PFAL books. Our Family Corps program was so pathetic academically/intellectually speaking. We were told always be ready to give a 5 minute teaching during the lunch meal. The person who got the highest praise out of all of us – and I mean this person's 5 minute teaching was referred to over & over again as exactly what they're looking for – was a guy who quoted just about verbatim from one chapter of the Blue Book – "The Bible Tells Me So".. . so to answer your question: reading PFAL books till it came out your nose was required reading when I was in the Corps.
Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible"
If you've been paying attention you would have noticed that the requirements constantly changed.
In fact, when I took Keys to Research live in 1974, we were told to buy "How To--"in the bookstore but to only read the parts that agreed with PFAL.---"The rest is off."
I don't really care how many women he screwed
Would you feel differently if your sister or mother or wife had been one of them?
And it's not only the women he, himself, abused but the women who were abused by his proteges as well.
or what he plagiarized.
You should. It's illegal, unethical and speaks loudly about the sinister side of his character. Look closely at how, in introducing this "sermon", he leads you to assume he is the author. He could have easily given a tip-of-the-hat to Oral Roberts.
no one else thought you were worth reaching.
That's a mighty big presumption on your part.
what are you doing now?
Well, I'm NOT wasting my time building a defense for a substance abusing, sexual predator who thought he was above the laws of the land.
I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did.
Have you actually spent any time examining any of the discussions of the materials offered here, such as "Actual Errors in PFAL"?
Waysider, that was a very thoughtful reply. You got me thinking of how virulent the TWI mindset was in my head – even long after I had left. I was able to unravel some screwy stuff on my own – but it wasn't until I came to Grease Spot that I was able to investigate, isolate & eliminate a bunch of other crap lurking about in my noggin. I know there's still crap in there [and believe it or not I'm working on it] – but you don't know what a relief it was for me to connect with a bunch of folks with similar experiences – wow! I mean I'm not crazy, "tripped out", "tricked" or possessed after all. Hello fellow Grease Spotters - salute!
WARNING: I will use the word "YOU" in the writing below. If the shoe fits put it on, if it doesn't pass it to the next guy. Don't take it personally. But take it for what applies to yourself or others you know. This is not meant to offend any one person. I'm thankful Waysider had put this in. I also am quite aware that this was in 06. Great! What has changed??? Well, here I go again. Stirring up a bee hive.
You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it. Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible". Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids. Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own.
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened. And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate. Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals.
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
Yid,
I realize you have been through a tramatic experience with the healings you mention and it seems that you feel deeply that the benefits you got from TWI are worth defending. That is your personal business. But when you come here and defend VP in such uninformed ways and dogmatic ways, I have to say I am worried about your frame of mind. Where you are getting these ideas about how great VP was regardless of his behavior? Ideas that are so hurtful not only to yourself but to others (to say the least)as many of these posts show. I hope you are reading them all. There is much to learn from people here at GSC who have suffered and yet have learned lessons that are helpful to others.
Now, I'm going to offer a section from a book that you probably will not like but give it a chance. Think about it. I am posting it because it speaks to the kind of person I used to be - yes, I was a fanatic for many years in TWI - and the kind of thinking I see in your post seems fanatical to me. It is not reasoned, but is driven by an emotional dogmatic reaction to facts and testamonies about VPW and his writings here that you find hard to accept. I suspect that they are hard to accept because if you accept them, you have to give up something you cherish.
That thing you cherish is your apparent belief in the value of VP's interpretations of the Bible, many of which WERE COPIED, and to give that up is hard. I know, I did it.
But your life is worth more than defending their propaganda. You can ignore what I have to say and what others here say if you want, but if you do, maybe at some point you will re-read what we've said and reconsider that what you cling to in your post is indefensible and that how you struck out at us was reckless, with accusations like, "I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate." To me, since you do not even know me, this is not only insulting, to me it is awful. Do you understand that by saying that, you are accusing me and everyone else of being hateful in the posts we've written. If you've seen hate here, you should qualify where it came from. I would hope you might consider apologizing to those of us here who try hard to be helpful and honest. Let's try and steer clear of fanaticism of any kind, which is driven by negative emotions and shows up in statements like that one you made.
This excerpt is from a book called, The True Believer Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements by Eric Hoffer. Harper & Row Publishers, Inc. N.Y. 1951.
"It goes without saying that the fanatic is convinced that the cause he holds on to is monolithic and eternal a rock of ages. Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. Often, indeed, it is his need for passionate attachment which turns every cause he embraces into a holy cause.
The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted. His passionate attachment is more vital than the quality of the cause to which he is attached." (p84)
You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it.
Right. First of all, it was a FELONY. It was THEFT and it was FRAUD.
Ephesians 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Second, by taking credit for the works of others, he was able to put forth that himself was some great
one, to whom they all gave heed, saying 'this man is the great power of God.'
And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had conned them with deceptions.
(Not a quotation of Acts 8:9-11, but I had them in mind.)
I Corinthians 13:4-6.
4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
God doesn't want us to embrace LIES but rather TRUTH. God does not want us committing crimes or even
"behaving unseemly." God doesn't want us vaunting or puffing ourselves up.
vpw did the opposite.]
Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible".
[As was already pointed out, it was "required" for a small number of twi'ers, for a short period of time.]
Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids.
[if something is important to you-is a matter of life and death- you put in the time and effort to
understand it. If you had a child, and their life was going to depend on how well you understood
Hamlet, I have little doubt you would become THE expert on Hamlet- because you like your child and
it's important to you that they keep breathing.]
Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own.
[With few exceptions, he almost ALWAYS hid his sources. You were not in twi when the names of the 2 books
of Bullingers that were rewritten to make "Are the Dead Alive Now?" was assembled-and you heard their names.
You were not in twi and heard that vpw took BG Leonard's class, and, a few months later, taught it and said
"this is my class on 'Receiving the Holy Spirit Today'" (later pfal.)
You were not in twi and heard that sessions 8-12 of pfal were entirely taken from Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard.
(You didn't hear the names "Stiles" and "Leonard" mentioned in context of pfal's "release version".)
However, if you removed all of Bullinger's work, and all of Stiles' work, and all of Leonard's work from pfal,
you wouldn't have enough to fill even a single session.
He was NEVER interested in us taking the work of others into present application- unless it was from HIM
we were taking the material. This has been made clear. There's a number of places online, BTW, where you
can see examples of side-by-side comparisons of the material vpw stole and where he stole it from.
He also did NOT "work them until they were his own." He often misunderstood things that were explained
better in the original writings, and when the original writers made an error, vpw duplicated the error and
didn't catch it. What's the difference, Biblically, between "the Kingdom of Heaven" and "the Kingdom of God"?
Biblically, the terms are used INTERCHANGEABLY-because they mean the same thing.
Bullinger made the mistake of SUPPOSING they were different, and expounded at length on the difference-
despite the verses showing otherwise. What did vpw say on the subject? Exactly what Bullinger said.
Frankly, if he wanted people to be able to boil down the works of others into a form they could use,
there would have been sessions with a textbook (like "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible")
and how to understand practical application of same. (Don't try to memorize 217/212 figures of speech-
memorize the 3 types, and the 1 purpose for all of them.) ]
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized.
[i Corinthians 5
1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Galatians 5:19-21
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 3:1-3
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
===========================
You may not care how many felonies vpw committed. You may not care how many of your precious sisters vpw violated-
for whom Christ died. God, however, does care.
And SHAME ON YOU for not caring.]
Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter.
[so what? They COULD have-Billy Graham was VERY public and did his best to reach EVERYONE.]
Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent.
[Actually, I was reached with what was called "his ministry", which was a hierarchical structure, dedicated
primarily to primacy of vpw, which used the work of excellent Christians as a pretext to do that.
I wouldn't brag about that- "good, bad or indifferent".
The people who were killed in the Twin Towers collapse were "reached" by the hijackers- and, by extension,
their religious teachers- "good, bad or indifferent." ]
Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached.
[incorrect.
A) Involvement with twi was not, and is not, synonymous with working for God.
So "standing for one day" can refer to working for God, or for working for twi.
twi was-and is-primarily about you working for twi.
That's why everything they did was designed to turn a profit, and money always
went to hq and never came back in any form to benefit people.
"No one else thought you were worth being reached."
That is a gross, GROSS distortion-and a mockery of logic.
Nobody got through to us first, therefore nobody else CARED?
A great many of us-myself included-had Christians praying for us- family, friends-
who were unable to reach us with THEIR words- they didn't say what we wanted to hear,
they weren't trained orators, and so on-
but they prayed for us-because they knew we were worth being reached.]
If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching.
[You, sir, have no idea what we do when we are not posting here.
The idea that ALL we do is "bitching" and "nothing" else is something you ASSUMED.
(As to what I do on my own time, that is between me and God Almighty.) ]
Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
[bad doctrine and bad practices will mess you up a LOT worse than being in a bad mood.
And sometimes you SHOULD be in a bad mood- not an emotionless machine.
John 11:35
35Jesus wept.
1 Corinthians 5:2
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
Just because something was in "the Advanced Class" is no guarantee it was even CORRECT.
Some people sat through sessions where charlatans, mountebanks, con artists were discussed
doing things involving nothing more than sleight-of-hand and a bold speech,
and vpw agreed with the con artists that it was something SPIRITUAL.
("Psychic surgery" and so on. You can find television shows and websites that show how the tricks were done.)]
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened.
[bULL.
First of all, not everyone who posts here are Christians anymore.
Many ran from anything Christian-or cast it away disdainfully- after the experiences they had with twi.
Second, those who still are Christians would be swift to credit GENUINE miracles to GOD ALMIGHTY-
who is SUPPOSED to get the credit- not any MAN.
Third, nobody who is still Christian says it was ALL invalid or lies.
We can see in Numbers 22, truth is still truth, even if it is delivered by the mouth of a jackass,
or even if it's delivered by a man who would rather speak something self-serving than a Word of God.
However, labelling us all so quickly makes it easier to turn off your own conscience again.
After all, you said you don't care how many women vpw RAPED, DRUGGED and MOLESTED.
(You used the crude term "screwed", but that hides the reality of what he did and suggests that
ALL of them were consensual when many were not- and those that were, were improper and carefully
prepared by him TO consent.]
And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate.
[You should look at threads that aren't criticizing twi if you want to find anything that isn't
a criticism of twi. Most of the threads are quite civil.
Of course, you won't find those threads any more than a thief will "find" a policeman.
Your worldview remains pristine if you don't expose it to other ideas- so you'll just label us all
"hating" (almost none of us, if any, actually HATE vpw- but it is Biblical to identify sin in the
leadership, and run off the hypocrites. Jesus, you may recall, hated people who made a BUSINESS,
a MONEY-MAKING VENTURE, of the things of God.
John 2:15-16
15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. ]
Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals.
[Well, the non-Christians did. The Christians discovered that life-and the things of God-
are far more detailed than the binary, all-or-nothing twi worldview.
But we "must have" discarded the Bible because we concern ourselves with parts not practiced in twi,
and don't agree with you. It's so much easier to ASSUME you yourself are right and ALL differences
from your doctrine are ERROR. That's certainly not the diligence, the "spoude/spoudazo" that is
advocated in the Bible you claim WE must have thrown out- but you, supposedly, apply despite failing
to do so anywhere in this post.]
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also?
[Trick question- we didn't, you ASSUMED we did and built your conclusion around a GUESS.
How many other GUESSES and ASSUMPTIONS are evident in your day-to-day Christian walk?
Judging from this post, there's at least a few in dangerous places-dangerous to you and
your relationship with God.]
Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
Thanks to everyone who answered my original question concerning books we were encouraged to read in the Corps, Fellow Laborers etc. I don't feel as if this blog has been de-railed; it's just taken a couple of interesting turns.
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T-Bone
I'd have to dig out my Corps journals buried in the attic – but I do remember us having to read "Bedside Manners" during a Christian Family & Sex class – I also remember vp being there for some of it – this was around the time of the infamous pj party with him showing his favorite porn video and getting lewd with a sixteen year old junior Corps girl.
I don't remember being required to read much of anything outside of the PFAL books. Our Family Corps program was so pathetic academically/intellectually speaking. We were told always be ready to give a 5 minute teaching during the lunch meal. The person who got the highest praise out of all of us – and I mean this person's 5 minute teaching was referred to over & over again as exactly what they're looking for – was a guy who quoted just about verbatim from one chapter of the Blue Book – "The Bible Tells Me So".. . so to answer your question: reading PFAL books till it came out your nose was required reading when I was in the Corps.
Waysider, that was a very thoughtful reply. You got me thinking of how virulent the TWI mindset was in my head – even long after I had left. I was able to unravel some screwy stuff on my own – but it wasn't until I came to Grease Spot that I was able to investigate, isolate & eliminate a bunch of other crap lurking about in my noggin. I know there's still crap in there [and believe it or not I'm working on it] – but you don't know what a relief it was for me to connect with a bunch of folks with similar experiences – wow! I mean I'm not crazy, "tripped out", "tricked" or possessed after all. Hello fellow Grease Spotters - salute!
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penworks
Yid,
I realize you have been through a tramatic experience with the healings you mention and it seems that you feel deeply that the benefits you got from TWI are worth defending. That is your personal business. But when you come here and defend VP in such uninformed ways and dogmatic ways, I have to say I am worried about your frame of mind. Where you are getting these ideas about how great VP was regardless of his behavior? Ideas that are so hurtful not only to yourself but to others (to say the least)as many of these posts show. I hope you are reading them all. There is much to learn from people here at GSC who have suffered and yet have learned lessons that are helpful to others.
Now, I'm going to offer a section from a book that you probably will not like but give it a chance. Think about it. I am posting it because it speaks to the kind of person I used to be - yes, I was a fanatic for many years in TWI - and the kind of thinking I see in your post seems fanatical to me. It is not reasoned, but is driven by an emotional dogmatic reaction to facts and testamonies about VPW and his writings here that you find hard to accept. I suspect that they are hard to accept because if you accept them, you have to give up something you cherish.
That thing you cherish is your apparent belief in the value of VP's interpretations of the Bible, many of which WERE COPIED, and to give that up is hard. I know, I did it.
But your life is worth more than defending their propaganda. You can ignore what I have to say and what others here say if you want, but if you do, maybe at some point you will re-read what we've said and reconsider that what you cling to in your post is indefensible and that how you struck out at us was reckless, with accusations like, "I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate." To me, since you do not even know me, this is not only insulting, to me it is awful. Do you understand that by saying that, you are accusing me and everyone else of being hateful in the posts we've written. If you've seen hate here, you should qualify where it came from. I would hope you might consider apologizing to those of us here who try hard to be helpful and honest. Let's try and steer clear of fanaticism of any kind, which is driven by negative emotions and shows up in statements like that one you made.
This excerpt is from a book called, The True Believer Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements by Eric Hoffer. Harper & Row Publishers, Inc. N.Y. 1951.
"It goes without saying that the fanatic is convinced that the cause he holds on to is monolithic and eternal a rock of ages. Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. Often, indeed, it is his need for passionate attachment which turns every cause he embraces into a holy cause.
The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted. His passionate attachment is more vital than the quality of the cause to which he is attached." (p84)
Good luck to you,
Charlene
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WordWolf
[WordWolf responds in brackets and boldface.]
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taxicab
Thanks to everyone who answered my original question concerning books we were encouraged to read in the Corps, Fellow Laborers etc. I don't feel as if this blog has been de-railed; it's just taken a couple of interesting turns.
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