I was never in the WC but required reading in Fellow Laborers of Ohio included Your Rugged Constitution, The Hiding Place, and God's Smuggler. I think we were supposed to have read the other stuff, like The Myth, Babylon, Challenging Counterfeit, Angels of Light etc. before we could be accepted. That's off the top of my head. It was a long time ago. :P
Babylon Mystery Religion and Challenging Counterfeit were required readings for the Advanced Class. In my Corps you were supposed to read "How to Enjoy the Bible", by E.W. Bullinger. I can't remember any others. They came out with "Jesus Christ Our Passover" and "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" about that same time.
I don't remember much about a reading list, but in FWC we had to memorize and recite if called upon in any order the red thread, where each book of the Bible is about one aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ.
(I used crib cards; was too darn tired to memorize anything much). :blush:
I don't remember much about a reading list, but in FWC we had to memorize and recite if called upon in any order the red thread, where each book of the Bible is about one aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ.
(I used crib cards; was too darn tired to memorize anything much). :blush:
Take your Bibles and turn to the book of Colossians, Chapter 1. Tonight I'd like to open The Word with you. And, if I were to give this a topic or a title of what I have in my heart to share with you tonight, I would call it "The Red Thread." You find him everywhere in The Word.
In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
In Chronicles he is the King's son.
In Ezra-Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
In Job he is the daysman.
In Psalms he is the song.
In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
In Hosea he is the latter rain.
In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
In Jonah he is our salvation.
In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
This is the go-thrum, the red thread. You find him everywhere throughout the Word.
In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
And in John he is Jehovah's Son.
In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
In Romans he is the believers' justification.
In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
In Philippians he is the believers' self-adequacy.
And in Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
And in Thessalonians he is the believers' soon-glorification.
In Timothy he is the faithful men.
In Titus he is the fellowlaborer.
In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
In James he is the royal law.
In Peter he is the pastor.
In John he is as we are.
In Jude he is the beloved.
And in Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
Who is this Jesus Christ? Yes, who is this Jesus Christ? He is the Red Thread that binds together
(Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in this transcript do I see him acknowledge that this particular interpretation of "The Red Thread" actually originated with Oral Roberts, though I did hear him say that at the AC. Here, he makes it sound like this was his idea. The phrase itself, "Red Thread" is quite old and has been used by a multitude of people.)
The important thing to note here is that, in addition to our Fellow Laborer duties, we were also required to work full time secular jobs where we were supposed to witness and then turn names over to local believers for follow-up. That left very little free time to do any serious reading.
There was also the "The Way Corps Poem", which was a re-written rendition of a poem about Boystown. It was credited as such. The first line was, "Not ancient walls or ivy mantled towers where dull, denominational traditions rule with heavy hand believers deeply springing powers." Yeah right.
I decided to modify this post... upon further pondering, it may be that none of these were MANDATORY reading... just strongly suggested (but you all know the suggestion of a general...)
The Challenging Counterfeit
Babylon Mystery Religion
Bedside Manners
Fascinating Womanhood
Man of Steel and Velvet
The Tracker
Soldier
That's all I can remember right now, but there might have been a couple more...
Well, I was later in than TheHighWay, and I don't recall any required reading. There was some required reading for the Adv Class, which I took immediately before coming in rez (only to be presented again with it almost as soon as I arrived in rez). Basically Adv Class stuff was the collaterals and some other Way stuff, JCOP, JCPS.
We had a list of books that we must bring with us when we came in rez, which included PFAL, RHST, collaterals, JCOP, JCPS, a Bible Atlas, a Concordance, an English dictionary and probably several other books.
Well, I was later in than TheHighWay, and I don't recall any required reading. There was some required reading for the Adv Class, which I took immediately before coming in rez (only to be presented again with it almost as soon as I arrived in rez). Basically Adv Class stuff was the collaterals and some other Way stuff, JCOP, JCPS.
We had a list of books that we must bring with us when we came in rez, which included PFAL, RHST, collaterals, JCOP, JCPS, a Bible Atlas, a Concordance, an English dictionary and probably several other books.
Twinky......there is a striking difference between your corps experience and mine.
Obviously, in the mid-70s.....twi had to rely on more secular sources of suggested and required reading. As in-house books became available, JCOP & JCPS, twi turned more inward. The Adv Classes followed the same pattern and turned to in-house promo.
I was never in the Corps but I had a few corps people tell me to read "Competent to Counsel" as it were some great corps revelation. I think it was one of the reasons they thought they were qualified and experts to stick their nose in your business
Take your Bibles and turn to the book of Colossians, Chapter 1. Tonight I'd like to open The Word with you. And, if I were to give this a topic or a title of what I have in my heart to share with you tonight, I would call it "The Red Thread." You find him everywhere in The Word.
In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
In Chronicles he is the King's son.
In Ezra-Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
In Job he is the daysman.
In Psalms he is the song.
In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
In Hosea he is the latter rain.
In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
In Jonah he is our salvation.
In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
This is the go-thrum, the red thread. You find him everywhere throughout the Word.
In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
And in John he is Jehovah's Son.
In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
In Romans he is the believers' justification.
In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
In Philippians he is the believers' self-adequacy.
And in Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
And in Thessalonians he is the believers' soon-glorification.
In Timothy he is the faithful men.
In Titus he is the fellowlaborer.
In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
In James he is the royal law.
In Peter he is the pastor.
In John he is as we are.
In Jude he is the beloved.
And in Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
Who is this Jesus Christ? Yes, who is this Jesus Christ? He is the Red Thread that binds together
(Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in this transcript do I see him acknowledge that this particular interpretation of "The Red Thread" actually originated with Oral Roberts, though I did hear him say that at the AC. Here, he makes it sound like this was his idea. The phrase itself, "Red Thread" is quite old and has been used by a multitude of people.)
WARNING: I will use the word "YOU" in the writing below. If the shoe fits put it on, if it doesn't pass it to the next guy. Don't take it personally. But take it for what applies to yourself or others you know. This is not meant to offend any one person. I'm thankful Waysider had put this in. I also am quite aware that this was in 06. Great! What has changed??? Well, here I go again. Stirring up a bee hive.
You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it. Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible". Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids. Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own.
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened. And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate. Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals.
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
WARNING: I will use the word "YOU" in the writing below. If the shoe fits put it on, if it doesn't pass it to the next guy. Don't take it personally. But take it for what applies to yourself or others you know. This is not meant to offend any one person. I'm thankful Waysider had put this in. I also am quite aware that this was in 06. Great! What has changed??? Well, here I go again. Stirring up a bee hive.
You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it. Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible". Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids. Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own.
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened. And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate. Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals.
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible"
If you've been paying attention you would have noticed that the requirements constantly changed.
In fact, when I took Keys to Research live in 1974, we were told to buy "How To--"in the bookstore but to only read the parts that agreed with PFAL.---"The rest is off."
I don't really care how many women he screwed
Would you feel differently if your sister or mother or wife had been one of them?
And it's not only the women he, himself, abused but the women who were abused by his proteges as well.
or what he plagiarized.
You should. It's illegal, unethical and speaks loudly about the sinister side of his character. Look closely at how, in introducing this "sermon", he leads you to assume he is the author. He could have easily given a tip-of-the-hat to Oral Roberts.
no one else thought you were worth reaching.
That's a mighty big presumption on your part.
what are you doing now?
Well, I'm NOT wasting my time building a defense for a substance abusing, sexual predator who thought he was above the laws of the land.
I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did.
Have you actually spent any time examining any of the discussions of the materials offered here, such as "Actual Errors in PFAL"?
I remember someone telling me that the beloved children's book "Good Night Moon" was "devilish" because one page was in black and white and then the next page was in color. Interesting theory
" don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized."
Well, what about all the abortions that ensued under his teaching that it's not really "murder" anyway. In other words, it's not *really* killing.
I'm not going to debate the issue on abortion here. That's another topic. But VP massaged the real issue by avoiding the subject that you were destroying a viable and healthy living being. And because he did, he masterminded the destrcution of many of his own offspring.
But hey---he was teaching the Word, and that covers a multitude of sins....yeah right!
Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible"
If you've been paying attention you would have noticed that the requirements constantly changed.
In fact, when I took Keys to Research live in 1974, we were told to buy "How To--"in the bookstore but to only read the parts that agreed with PFAL.---"The rest is off."
I don't really care how many women he screwed
Would you feel differently if your sister or mother or wife had been one of them?
And it's not only the women he, himself, abused but the women who were abused by his proteges as well.
or what he plagiarized.
You should. It's illegal, unethical and speaks loudly about the sinister side of his character. Look closely at how, in introducing this "sermon", he leads you to assume he is the author. He could have easily given a tip-of-the-hat to Oral Roberts.
no one else thought you were worth reaching.
That's a mighty big presumption on your part.
what are you doing now?
Well, I'm NOT wasting my time building a defense for a substance abusing, sexual predator who thought he was above the laws of the land.
I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did.
Have you actually spent any time examining any of the discussions of the materials offered here, such as "Actual Errors in PFAL"?
Be not fooled. What waysider is saying is important and critical to our understanding of the history of TWI. One thing I want to add: many of us while we were "in" TWI mistakenly gave thanks to VPW and his group, TWI, for things and events for which we should have given thanks only to God.
One of the major challenges in leaving TWI is untangling the big parts of our experiences during our association with TWI as if it were a gigantic ball of string. For me, this ball of string consisted of God (my perception of God), the gospel accounts of Jesus, the ministry of Paul, The Bible as a whole, VPW's beliefs, his personality, his strengths and his weaknesses, and overall moral conduct including his interpretation or misinterpretation of the Bible; TWI as an organization; the actions of followers trained by VPW; the overall context of VPW's belief system, which is Fundamentalism; the aspects of cult behavior, etc. The list goes on. Until we do this work, we will continue to see people give VPW undeserved credit for many positive things in our lives that happened during the years we just happened to spend associated with TWI. For all we know, they would have happened without TWI. There is a God outside TWI, after all.
One of VPW's strengths was his ability to motivate people and get them to equate his organization with that of the Apostle Paul's. This was done indirectly and yet anyone who was around for any length of time got the hint. I do not remember a time when VPW deterred us from claiming his teachings and ministry saved our lives. IMO, rather than let that go on, he should have corrected this thinking and directed us to say God saved our lives, not him or his organization.
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
And when I read something like this above. . . . I have to wonder if you tossed your bible. . . . you don't care how many women he screwed? Well, first off . . . nice terminology . . . . and second, way to hold up women and their worth with such clarity. . . . . it isn't what goes into your body that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth. . . . why would you say you do not care that someone drugged, raped, manipulated, and molested vulnerable young women? Sorry. . . "screwed" them.
We incarcerate people for this. . . . it is a felony!! As a collective society we understand it is wrong to do this. . . .we care. . . guess we missed that part in TWI the "Christian" ministry . I bet every Pagan and atheist on this board. . . . "cares".
Your bible cares . . . . and it warns about men like VP. . . . and no where do I read. . . . good, bad, or indifferent. . . . and that it doesn't matter. I read warning after warning about men like VP who come out of the church . . . . pervert the gospel, deny the Lord, and turn grace into a license for sin. Men who use people, lead them astray and whose destruction and judgment is set.
Worth being reached? Billy Graham has evangelized his whole life. . . . Surely you were well aware of who Billy Graham was. . . . you could have gone to a crusade at any time. That would have been your choice, but I wonder if you would have listened? Billy Graham would have told you that you had to change.
But, I can't really fault you for your line of reasoning. . . . I get it. . . . I prayed to know God. . . . and there was TWI . . . . and they were everywhere in my life. . . . . it could not have been coincidence. . . . it was God answering my prayer. And. . . . because my moral compass was so askew, I was headed for certain death. My life WAS saved by detouring from drug abuse into that cult.
For a time after I left TWI I was just sure I had learned the "truth" despite all the horrible things that had gone on. I had prayed, so TWI HAD to be my answer.
It confused me to no end. The why of it? Especially once I started to understand how wrong the behavior and teaching was. . . .the fact it was a cult. . . . and the reality of who VP was.
One day I realized that God had answered my prayer. . . . it was in my deliverance from TWI that I really came to know Him.
God does not conquer in spite of evil. . . . but, through it. Lazarus still died, but Jesus delivered him. Great deliverance reveals God.
God had brought me to Him perfectly after all. But. . . . VP meant it for evil. . . it was God who used it for good.
It is the "meant it for evil" part people here warn of. . . . . don't make assumptions about what goes on here. . . . that people are merely "bitching". . . . they may actually be doing something of real worth. Maybe you just don't see it yet.
And Waysider. . . . I am sorry to derail your thread. . . another book was None Dare Call it Conspiracy.
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waysider
I was never in the WC but required reading in Fellow Laborers of Ohio included Your Rugged Constitution, The Hiding Place, and God's Smuggler. I think we were supposed to have read the other stuff, like The Myth, Babylon, Challenging Counterfeit, Angels of Light etc. before we could be accepted. That's off the top of my head. It was a long time ago. :P
Oops! Almost forgot----- Christian Etiquette.
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Broken Arrow
Babylon Mystery Religion and Challenging Counterfeit were required readings for the Advanced Class. In my Corps you were supposed to read "How to Enjoy the Bible", by E.W. Bullinger. I can't remember any others. They came out with "Jesus Christ Our Passover" and "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed" about that same time.
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Watered Garden
I don't remember much about a reading list, but in FWC we had to memorize and recite if called upon in any order the red thread, where each book of the Bible is about one aspect of the ministry of Jesus Christ.
(I used crib cards; was too darn tired to memorize anything much). :blush:
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waysider
*********************************************************
Take your Bibles and turn to the book of Colossians, Chapter 1. Tonight I'd like to open The Word with you. And, if I were to give this a topic or a title of what I have in my heart to share with you tonight, I would call it "The Red Thread." You find him everywhere in The Word.
In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
In Chronicles he is the King's son.
In Ezra-Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
In Job he is the daysman.
In Psalms he is the song.
In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
In Hosea he is the latter rain.
In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
In Jonah he is our salvation.
In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
This is the go-thrum, the red thread. You find him everywhere throughout the Word.
In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
And in John he is Jehovah's Son.
In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
In Romans he is the believers' justification.
In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
In Philippians he is the believers' self-adequacy.
And in Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
And in Thessalonians he is the believers' soon-glorification.
In Timothy he is the faithful men.
In Titus he is the fellowlaborer.
In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
In James he is the royal law.
In Peter he is the pastor.
In John he is as we are.
In Jude he is the beloved.
And in Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
Who is this Jesus Christ? Yes, who is this Jesus Christ? He is the Red Thread that binds together
the Word from Genesis to Revelation.
http://www.biblicalresearchjournal.org/brj-pages_pdf/002_1978-07_the_red_thread.pdf
**************************************************************************************
(Perhaps I missed it, but nowhere in this transcript do I see him acknowledge that this particular interpretation of "The Red Thread" actually originated with Oral Roberts, though I did hear him say that at the AC. Here, he makes it sound like this was his idea. The phrase itself, "Red Thread" is quite old and has been used by a multitude of people.)
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Jim
Ideal Marriage and Fascinating Womanhood?
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Twinky
Waysider ... don't tell me you did that from memory ...
(or is it 
)
Didn't know he'd pinched that too...but then again, maybe it was a bit too slick even for Slick Vic. Why am I not surprised?
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waysider
No, I didn't memorize it.
It's from the link I posted.
But, did you notice that in the introduction to the teaching, he slyly allows the audience to believe it's his work they are hearing?
Sorry----I seem to have derailed this thread.
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smarter
Waysider, thank you for posting "The Red Thread". I cut and pasted it and emailed it to Oral Roberts' niece.
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waysider
Dare To Discipline was another one we read. I think we read Life Is Tremendous and The Greatest Salesman in the World, also, but I'm not sure the last two were required.
***************************************
The important thing to note here is that, in addition to our Fellow Laborer duties, we were also required to work full time secular jobs where we were supposed to witness and then turn names over to local believers for follow-up. That left very little free time to do any serious reading.
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Watered Garden
I think I first heard The Red Thread in the Adv. Class. I did hear Oral Roberts himself recite it once at a class. Pretty impressive.
WG
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Broken Arrow
There was also the "The Way Corps Poem", which was a re-written rendition of a poem about Boystown. It was credited as such. The first line was, "Not ancient walls or ivy mantled towers where dull, denominational traditions rule with heavy hand believers deeply springing powers." Yeah right.
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TheHighWay
I decided to modify this post... upon further pondering, it may be that none of these were MANDATORY reading... just strongly suggested (but you all know the suggestion of a general...)
The Challenging Counterfeit
Babylon Mystery Religion
Bedside Manners
Fascinating Womanhood
Man of Steel and Velvet
The Tracker
Soldier
That's all I can remember right now, but there might have been a couple more...
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skyrider
In mid-70s....
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie
Life is Tremendous by Charlie Jones
The Greatest Saleman in the World by Og Mandino
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Twinky
Well, I was later in than TheHighWay, and I don't recall any required reading. There was some required reading for the Adv Class, which I took immediately before coming in rez (only to be presented again with it almost as soon as I arrived in rez). Basically Adv Class stuff was the collaterals and some other Way stuff, JCOP, JCPS.
We had a list of books that we must bring with us when we came in rez, which included PFAL, RHST, collaterals, JCOP, JCPS, a Bible Atlas, a Concordance, an English dictionary and probably several other books.
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skyrider
Twinky......there is a striking difference between your corps experience and mine.
Obviously, in the mid-70s.....twi had to rely on more secular sources of suggested and required reading. As in-house books became available, JCOP & JCPS, twi turned more inward. The Adv Classes followed the same pattern and turned to in-house promo.
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mstar1
I was never in the Corps but I had a few corps people tell me to read "Competent to Counsel" as it were some great corps revelation. I think it was one of the reasons they thought they were qualified and experts to stick their nose in your business
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YID
WARNING: I will use the word "YOU" in the writing below. If the shoe fits put it on, if it doesn't pass it to the next guy. Don't take it personally. But take it for what applies to yourself or others you know. This is not meant to offend any one person. I'm thankful Waysider had put this in. I also am quite aware that this was in 06. Great! What has changed??? Well, here I go again. Stirring up a bee hive.
You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it. Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible". Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids. Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own.
I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!!
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened. And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate. Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals.
I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life???
This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.
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waysider
Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible"
If you've been paying attention you would have noticed that the requirements constantly changed.
In fact, when I took Keys to Research live in 1974, we were told to buy "How To--"in the bookstore but to only read the parts that agreed with PFAL.---"The rest is off."
I don't really care how many women he screwed
Would you feel differently if your sister or mother or wife had been one of them?
And it's not only the women he, himself, abused but the women who were abused by his proteges as well.
or what he plagiarized.
You should. It's illegal, unethical and speaks loudly about the sinister side of his character. Look closely at how, in introducing this "sermon", he leads you to assume he is the author. He could have easily given a tip-of-the-hat to Oral Roberts.
no one else thought you were worth reaching.
That's a mighty big presumption on your part.
what are you doing now?
Well, I'm NOT wasting my time building a defense for a substance abusing, sexual predator who thought he was above the laws of the land.
I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did.
Have you actually spent any time examining any of the discussions of the materials offered here, such as "Actual Errors in PFAL"?
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lindyhopper
Oh, ahahahahaha.
Goodnight TWI
Goodnight mush
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Rejoice
" don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized."
Well, what about all the abortions that ensued under his teaching that it's not really "murder" anyway. In other words, it's not *really* killing.
I'm not going to debate the issue on abortion here. That's another topic. But VP massaged the real issue by avoiding the subject that you were destroying a viable and healthy living being. And because he did, he masterminded the destrcution of many of his own offspring.
But hey---he was teaching the Word, and that covers a multitude of sins....yeah right!
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waysider
I wouldn't even go as far as saying he was teaching "The Word".
What he was "teaching" was his own private, twisted philosophy with a Biblical veneer to feign credibility..
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penworks
Be not fooled. What waysider is saying is important and critical to our understanding of the history of TWI. One thing I want to add: many of us while we were "in" TWI mistakenly gave thanks to VPW and his group, TWI, for things and events for which we should have given thanks only to God.
One of the major challenges in leaving TWI is untangling the big parts of our experiences during our association with TWI as if it were a gigantic ball of string. For me, this ball of string consisted of God (my perception of God), the gospel accounts of Jesus, the ministry of Paul, The Bible as a whole, VPW's beliefs, his personality, his strengths and his weaknesses, and overall moral conduct including his interpretation or misinterpretation of the Bible; TWI as an organization; the actions of followers trained by VPW; the overall context of VPW's belief system, which is Fundamentalism; the aspects of cult behavior, etc. The list goes on. Until we do this work, we will continue to see people give VPW undeserved credit for many positive things in our lives that happened during the years we just happened to spend associated with TWI. For all we know, they would have happened without TWI. There is a God outside TWI, after all.
One of VPW's strengths was his ability to motivate people and get them to equate his organization with that of the Apostle Paul's. This was done indirectly and yet anyone who was around for any length of time got the hint. I do not remember a time when VPW deterred us from claiming his teachings and ministry saved our lives. IMO, rather than let that go on, he should have corrected this thinking and directed us to say God saved our lives, not him or his organization.
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geisha779
And when I read something like this above. . . . I have to wonder if you tossed your bible. . . . you don't care how many women he screwed? Well, first off . . . nice terminology . . . . and second, way to hold up women and their worth with such clarity. . . . . it isn't what goes into your body that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth. . . . why would you say you do not care that someone drugged, raped, manipulated, and molested vulnerable young women? Sorry. . . "screwed" them.
We incarcerate people for this. . . . it is a felony!! As a collective society we understand it is wrong to do this. . . .we care. . . guess we missed that part in TWI the "Christian" ministry . I bet every Pagan and atheist on this board. . . . "cares".
Your bible cares . . . . and it warns about men like VP. . . . and no where do I read. . . . good, bad, or indifferent. . . . and that it doesn't matter. I read warning after warning about men like VP who come out of the church . . . . pervert the gospel, deny the Lord, and turn grace into a license for sin. Men who use people, lead them astray and whose destruction and judgment is set.
Worth being reached? Billy Graham has evangelized his whole life. . . . Surely you were well aware of who Billy Graham was. . . . you could have gone to a crusade at any time. That would have been your choice, but I wonder if you would have listened? Billy Graham would have told you that you had to change.
But, I can't really fault you for your line of reasoning. . . . I get it. . . . I prayed to know God. . . . and there was TWI . . . . and they were everywhere in my life. . . . . it could not have been coincidence. . . . it was God answering my prayer. And. . . . because my moral compass was so askew, I was headed for certain death. My life WAS saved by detouring from drug abuse into that cult.
For a time after I left TWI I was just sure I had learned the "truth" despite all the horrible things that had gone on. I had prayed, so TWI HAD to be my answer.
It confused me to no end. The why of it? Especially once I started to understand how wrong the behavior and teaching was. . . .the fact it was a cult. . . . and the reality of who VP was.
One day I realized that God had answered my prayer. . . . it was in my deliverance from TWI that I really came to know Him.
God does not conquer in spite of evil. . . . but, through it. Lazarus still died, but Jesus delivered him. Great deliverance reveals God.
God had brought me to Him perfectly after all. But. . . . VP meant it for evil. . . it was God who used it for good.
It is the "meant it for evil" part people here warn of. . . . . don't make assumptions about what goes on here. . . . that people are merely "bitching". . . . they may actually be doing something of real worth. Maybe you just don't see it yet.
And Waysider. . . . I am sorry to derail your thread. . . another book was None Dare Call it Conspiracy.
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waysider
It's not my thread, but thanks.
I don't remember if the Gary Allen materials were "required" or "recommended" in FLO.
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