The point I'm trying to make is that you can plop yourself into one of the offshoots and feel like you're right at home. That is not a good thing, because the real reason why you left is still alive and thriving in the offshoot. It may not be noticeable right away; after all you've been conditioned to accept many things at face value and so those things become a comfortable friend even as they work against you, but the reason is there.
. . .
On another hand, an offshoot might be good, since if people just left they're probably old. Not a lot of time to sort things out. They might be happier that way.
On another hand, an offshoot might be good, since if people just left they're probably old. Not a lot of time to sort things out. They might be happier that way.
well, hang around *most* offshoots, and eventually you will witness a geerish megalomaniac, vp wanabes, or a meltdown, after dueling prophecies at twenty paces.
Along with all of the elitism or worse of the old organization..
The "problem" with getting involved with an offshoot, *they* can't bring themselves to even imagine they are seriously "wrong".. doctrinally or practically. Generally..
I've seen the same mindset.. "it's been RESEARCHED.. now just believe.." or something like that.. so off they go, polishing the vicster's gold plated turds..
So...you just left?...good, pat yourself on the back. You made the right choice...my advice?....turn your back and walk away...don't look back. Admit to yourself that you were conned (because you were), and move on. We all make mistakes...twi was one of them.
There's a big old world out there with plenty of opprotunities for you. Make a life for yourself and be content...end of story.
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. He has laid out for you a path to healing. Do not confuse his words with what you remember being force-fed in twi. They are not the same. Unless you can separate them, you will be running in circles and wallowing in bitterness the rest of your life. Swallow your pride and listen to him.
Not everything we were taught was a lie. Not everything was wrong. Yes, much was. But much is also perfectly and correctly the Word of God which does, indeed apply to you. It is easy to mock, or throw brash words around. When I see that happening, I know you are hurting. In my mind's eye I see you twirling and flailing in circles being unable to pick a spot to sit down and rest. Well......find a place and just stop for a moment. Take a few slow breaths. Read his words again slowly and expect to see what God wants you to see. It's not easy, but I know it's possible.
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. He has laid out for you a path to healing. Do not confuse his words with what you remember being force-fed in twi. They are not the same. Unless you can separate them, you will be running in circles and wallowing in bitterness the rest of your life. Swallow your pride and listen to him.
Not everything we were taught was a lie. Not everything was wrong. Yes, much was. But much is also perfectly and correctly the Word of God which does, indeed apply to you. It is easy to mock, or throw brash words around. When I see that happening, I know you are hurting. In my mind's eye I see you twirling and flailing in circles being unable to pick a spot to sit down and rest. Well......find a place and just stop for a moment. Take a few slow breaths. Read his words again slowly and expect to see what God wants you to see. It's not easy, but I know it's possible.
I thought it was a really nice post too. No malice in it. . . . thank-you Research Geek for sharing your perspective with us.
For me, and probably many others, we didn't go into TWI because we truly loved God. . . . TWI was a rejection of Christianity, Christ, and the church. It was embracing something where we didn't have to count the cost and we followed a man and his easy prosperity gospel with a gnostic bent.
Rejecting Christianity didn't happen post TWI. . . . it happened all along.
We mocked Christians remember? We sang songs about it. We looked at them with scorn and ridicule and we rejected the Jesus of the Church and mocked Him too. Anyone remember that?
What we didn't consider is that Jesus is with His church. . .and we followed a man who came out of there in disgrace.
We built our own church with our own Jesus based on one mans vision of a God who didn't get in the way of his desire to sin. Isn't that obvious now? An offshoot of such a church? No thank-you.
A rejection of that kind faith is healthy IMO.
The thing about Job. . . . My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
Job never got the answer to why. He got greater than a why. . . . He got the who. What was the cost to get there? And. . . he was a righteous man. It is more than just praying for your friends. . . . it all has to get stripped away IMHO.
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. He has laid out for you a path to healing. Do not confuse his words with what you remember being force-fed in twi. They are not the same. Unless you can separate them, you will be running in circles and wallowing in bitterness the rest of your life. Swallow your pride and listen to him.
Not everything we were taught was a lie. Not everything was wrong. Yes, much was. But much is also perfectly and correctly the Word of God which does, indeed apply to you. It is easy to mock, or throw brash words around. When I see that happening, I know you are hurting. In my mind's eye I see you twirling and flailing in circles being unable to pick a spot to sit down and rest. Well......find a place and just stop for a moment. Take a few slow breaths. Read his words again slowly and expect to see what God wants you to see. It's not easy, but I know it's possible.
I agree that not everything we were taught was a lie, such as verses that tell us to love one another, etc. Broad truths like that are good and true, obviously. But we need to remember TWI was built on a man-made theology inherited from various sources.
I'm glad Research Geek posted those thoughts here so we could take a few minutes and think about some of the points in that post.
I've selected just a few of his remarks to respond to:
"...twi realized that things had gone too far because people were leaving in droves, so they racheted rfr's changes back to a "kinder gentler" version and that is where they are now."
This reflects a popular belief that there was a "kinder gentler" version of the past TWI days to go back to. I don't know when that was. I think he should explain that statement.
"This time will be a real catharsis. Just hold fast to that which is good. But in the end, you should be better and stronger for it."
I agree. Each person needs to sort out what that "good" was and question EVERYTHING; start from scratch in my opinion.
"you still have a Godly calling and that ministry is directed towards other believers, so it functions best within a body of some kind."
This is an assumption of many people when they want to perpetuate Christian groups. This thinking was promoted by the Apostle Paul to build his organization. Think carefully about whether or not this is what you want to do.
"For example, there are a whole lot of people in twi who know things are wrong and have decided to try to change it from within."
In my view, they would need to know what to change TWI into. What would that be?
The fact is, the nature of a group like that is a closed system and the foundation is rooted too deep to change.
Disassociation from the group and starting a new life is better.
There IS A WHOLE WIDE WORLD out here and plenty of chances to meet fabulous people and learn things and ENJOY LIFE.
Nice sentiments from Geek. A good solid Biblical perspective on dealing with adversity and getting over hurt through Job's examples are a good start. One of the astounding things about the book of Job is the lengths to which Job went to help his friends. He was subjected to much more than you would expect a human being to take from those 3. I don't know if it was all planned by Job, reading it through more likely those were the people around him at the time for better or worse and he worked with what he had and God honored his heart and turned things around.
I can pray for those still within TWI who have a pure heart I suppose. And yet the more time that goes on and the longer people are around it, I have to believe that they see signs of the corruption that exists, see evidence of good people being screwed over, see the lies being told. And the longer people see evil and do nothing about it the less pure their own hearts are. How much should one compromise their own integrety to try and change the hard of heart? It's a personal choice.
For me, I don't pray for them in general. It's not that they couldn't use it or I couldn't do it, it's simply a matter of priority. There are those within my own house and my own friends who need prayer. This prayer took second place to the people, purposes and goals of TWI when I was in. To me this is exactly the opposite of Haggai 1. It's not those in my own house that dwell in cieled houses while this house lays waste. It's exactly opposite. It's that house that is cieled while the household lays waste.
My advice from those leaving is build up your own house. You've spent far too long building up someone else's dreams, political offices, salaries, organizations. Take care of your own. Go on vacation. Take a class. Pursue a hobby you've always wanted to. Nows the time to enrich your life. If you crave service, volunteer for something not religion related.
God's house will take care of itself. And the Body of Christ is much more wide, wonderful and organization independant than you know.
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. . .
"Debatable".............per Bolshevik.
imho, the geek has given the perspective of another twi offshoot, cffm............debatable at best................penworks' post provides more of "god's perspective" than the geek's, imho............good questions too................any answers??????...................peace.
"...twi realized that things had gone too far because people were leaving in droves, so they racheted rfr's changes back to a "kinder gentler" version and that is where they are now."
"This reflects a popular belief that there was a "kinder gentler" version of the past TWI days to go back to. I don't know when that was. I think he should explain that statement."
i agree penworks.....wholeheartedly!................how about an explanation geek, about your leadership role in the "real" "kinder, gentler version" of twi that the offshoot, way tree splinter group you help to run has been providing to twi fugees for more than a decade now?
how far removed from grampa wierwille's doctrines and practices is cffm really?........just wondering, since you posted what you did, if you'll respond to penworks' thoughtful post............hoping you will, and that a lively, civil discussion will ensue..............thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and...............peace.
Regarding kinder and gentler these are terms I used when I started a different thread a few weeks ago. At the present time, it seems that twi is both. I ran into a friend I had "back in the day" and she told me that many folks are returning because of the kinder gentler attitude. There is at present some kind of certificate program whereas for longevity, the individuals are rewarded with a certificate of recognition at the Anniversary weekend. She told me that all those folks who have gone back have gotten appropriate certificates even though they left for a time. "All I have to do is call the Limb leader and I'm in like flynn" In my case, I think it's more likely they would locate me with an unmanned drone of some sort and drop a good sized bomb on me....
They don't hound you about regular attendance. There are a number of things which are eased up. This is at the present time in my location. I'm specifying this because I don't want somebody held to a standard which just did not exist at their time. Fair is Fair, after all. I know of no other time when there was anything like this.....kinder and gentler.
Well, the fact remains that TWI and its offshoots are fundamentalist Christian groups (the term "Christian" is questionable, I know) and while some people like that sort of system because it seems to offer a sense of certainty about stuff like what the Bible REALLY says, etc, lots of other people aren't interested in that system.
For starters, they find it a system of denial about all sorts of things. Things like the cultural roots of Christianity are vastly different than the society we live in today, so to try and recreate the first century church today is a pipe dream (not to mention there was no clear-cut first century church, but that's another story). That's just a tiny starter...
Personally, I find TWI and its offshoots as suffocating as a blanket over my head. Guess I feel pretty opinionated this morning...
Anyway,no matter how many certificates they hand out for good attendance, I'm pretty sure they would not want me back, I ask too many questions...
The one I'm asking myself right now is, what the heck I'm doing up at this hour on Sunday morning - oh, someone had the bright idea to change the time BACKWARDS. How do you reset your sleep cycle?
Peace and happy November! Where does the time go? Oh, yeah...it goes backwards, which is okay for ONE day but I sure hope they don't decide to crank it back 20 years. Although some groups seem to be trying to do that...
----- to try and recreate the first century church today is a pipe dream (not to mention there was no clear-cut first century church, but that's another story). That's just a tiny starter...
Charlene
Good Golly!
I look back at Fellow Laborers and think about how preposterously ironic the whole thing was.
Fifty people, living in what was, essentially, a commune, deluded into thinking we were recreating the first century church environment. How bizaare is that??? In retrospect, nothing we did resembled the first century "church". (And the program was promoted as a way to intensely study the book of Acts for two years so we could go back to our hometowns as better "leaders".)-------- I think it was more like a pipe BOMB than a pipe DREAM.
Peace and happy November! Where does the time go? Oh, yeah...it goes backwards, which is okay for ONE day but I sure hope they don't decide to crank it back 20 years. Although some groups seem to be trying to do that...
Or....crank it back 40 years (1969) when wierwille was the mog who walked the earth.
Well, the fact remains that TWI and its offshoots are fundamentalist Christian groups (the term "Christian" is questionable, I know) and while some people like that sort of system because it seems to offer a sense of certainty about stuff like what the Bible REALLY says, etc, lots of other people aren't interested in that system.
For starters, they find it a system of denial about all sorts of things. Things like the cultural roots of Christianity are vastly different than the society we live in today, so to try and recreate the first century church today is a pipe dream (not to mention there was no clear-cut first century church, but that's another story). That's just a tiny starter...
Personally, I find TWI and its offshoots as suffocating as a blanket over my head. Guess I feel pretty opinionated this morning...
Anyway,no matter how many certificates they hand out for good attendance, I'm pretty sure they would not want me back, I ask too many questions...
The one I'm asking myself right now is, what the heck I'm doing up at this hour on Sunday morning - oh, someone had the bright idea to change the time BACKWARDS. How do you reset your sleep cycle?
Peace and happy November! Where does the time go? Oh, yeah...it goes backwards, which is okay for ONE day but I sure hope they don't decide to crank it back 20 years. Although some groups seem to be trying to do that...
Peace,
Charlene
I like opinionated. . . it shows you are your own person! Thank goodness.
What did we lose being caught up in TWI at such a vulnerable time in our personal development?? We lost our true historical self. . . and for people to go back into that system because they are kinder. . . indicates many have never begun to recover themselves.
Off-shoots perpetuate that personality change which occurred in TWI. . . . the subtle persuasion. . . .the altered worldview. . . . it is insidious.
Thank-you for the disclaimer that TWI may not Christian. It is an imperative distinction for people to make. TWI's roots are mysticism and spiritualist, with some gnostic leanings. People hate hearing this. . . I get mail! However, if we want to be informed, we have to look at who influenced our fearless MOG VP and what he adopted as "lost Christianity". There is nothing new under the sun. Who were Kenyon, Stiles, and Leonard? What influenced them. Might be helpful to know. They were not really Orthodox guys.
This also helps if one decides to reject Christianity. It is good to know just what it is we are rejecting. TWI is one thing. . . the Christian faith another.
It helps when we are studying the first century church. . . . the break off sects, the why of divisions. . . and what historical Christianity does mean. Do you realize this is nearly impossible to do if we are still caught up in the idea that the metaphysical and occult based garbage VP passed off as Christianity is still our foundation for what it means to be Christian?
No wonder people chuck the whole thing all together. . . . it is such a tangled web of deceit and psychological abuse packaged so prettily under the guise of biblical research. . . .it is nearly impossible to untangle alone.
Thank goodness for GSC. . . and while I am thinking of it. . . it is no wonder you have people posting some 20 years out. . . . healing from this can take years. They messed with the deepest part of our psyche. Who we really are. . . . and most of us got caught up when our relationship to self was developing. . . . geeze talk about ugly. Christianity is about relationship BTW. It does not discount uniqueness of self in relation to God. . . .
If people want that Word of Faith . . . occult influenced belief system for themselves. . . no problem. . . that isn't the point. . . . . Shouldn't we at the least know what we are embracing and why we are so convinced it is the "truth"? How we were so persuaded, influenced and fundamentally changed?
We were in a cult. . . . we need to know what kind of cult. . . . how it worked. . . and the residual influence on our lives. Or. . . we can just go back because they are nicer now.
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. . .
"Debatable".............per Bolshevik.
imho, the geek has given the perspective of another twi offshoot, cffm............debatable at best................penworks' post provides more of "god's perspective" than the geek's, imho............good questions too................any answers??????...................peace.
Thanks for the compliment above, DWBH, but I need to say that I shy away from any claims to having more of "god's perspective." I'm sure you understand where that can lead! But I agree with you that it is VERY important to say something about the value of perspectives; some are better, healthier, and more sound minded than others.
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Tzaia
I'm starting this topic so that we who are out can give some advice to people who are out or thinking about it as their next step in their new direction. Here is my advice: What some of us did was j
Shellon
My suggestions would be practical ones for anyone just leaving. If you've been hanging out for a very long time, plan to grieve a loss. Plan ahead for the first night or afternoon where you'd usuall
Research Geek
My advice to those who have left is to do whatever it takes to get healed. Obviously, if you were involved in twi, you love God and want to be right. If you were like most people when you originally
Bolshevik
On another hand, an offshoot might be good, since if people just left they're probably old. Not a lot of time to sort things out. They might be happier that way.
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penworks
Don't kid yourself.
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Ham
heh..
well, hang around *most* offshoots, and eventually you will witness a geerish megalomaniac, vp wanabes, or a meltdown, after dueling prophecies at twenty paces.
Along with all of the elitism or worse of the old organization..
The "problem" with getting involved with an offshoot, *they* can't bring themselves to even imagine they are seriously "wrong".. doctrinally or practically. Generally..
I've seen the same mindset.. "it's been RESEARCHED.. now just believe.." or something like that.. so off they go, polishing the vicster's gold plated turds..
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Bolshevik
Yeah, you could just watch people sulk for the next few decades . . . essentially being a lone offshoot . . . population: 1.
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Tzaia
Don't confuse happiness with delusion...
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GrouchoMarxJr
So...you just left?...good, pat yourself on the back. You made the right choice...my advice?....turn your back and walk away...don't look back. Admit to yourself that you were conned (because you were), and move on. We all make mistakes...twi was one of them.
There's a big old world out there with plenty of opprotunities for you. Make a life for yourself and be content...end of story.
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krys
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. He has laid out for you a path to healing. Do not confuse his words with what you remember being force-fed in twi. They are not the same. Unless you can separate them, you will be running in circles and wallowing in bitterness the rest of your life. Swallow your pride and listen to him.
Not everything we were taught was a lie. Not everything was wrong. Yes, much was. But much is also perfectly and correctly the Word of God which does, indeed apply to you. It is easy to mock, or throw brash words around. When I see that happening, I know you are hurting. In my mind's eye I see you twirling and flailing in circles being unable to pick a spot to sit down and rest. Well......find a place and just stop for a moment. Take a few slow breaths. Read his words again slowly and expect to see what God wants you to see. It's not easy, but I know it's possible.
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geisha779
I thought it was a really nice post too. No malice in it. . . . thank-you Research Geek for sharing your perspective with us.
For me, and probably many others, we didn't go into TWI because we truly loved God. . . . TWI was a rejection of Christianity, Christ, and the church. It was embracing something where we didn't have to count the cost and we followed a man and his easy prosperity gospel with a gnostic bent.
Rejecting Christianity didn't happen post TWI. . . . it happened all along.
We mocked Christians remember? We sang songs about it. We looked at them with scorn and ridicule and we rejected the Jesus of the Church and mocked Him too. Anyone remember that?
What we didn't consider is that Jesus is with His church. . .and we followed a man who came out of there in disgrace.
We built our own church with our own Jesus based on one mans vision of a God who didn't get in the way of his desire to sin. Isn't that obvious now? An offshoot of such a church? No thank-you.
A rejection of that kind faith is healthy IMO.
The thing about Job. . . . My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
Job never got the answer to why. He got greater than a why. . . . He got the who. What was the cost to get there? And. . . he was a righteous man. It is more than just praying for your friends. . . . it all has to get stripped away IMHO.
Seems some of that can happen here.
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penworks
I agree that not everything we were taught was a lie, such as verses that tell us to love one another, etc. Broad truths like that are good and true, obviously. But we need to remember TWI was built on a man-made theology inherited from various sources.
I'm glad Research Geek posted those thoughts here so we could take a few minutes and think about some of the points in that post.
I've selected just a few of his remarks to respond to:
"...twi realized that things had gone too far because people were leaving in droves, so they racheted rfr's changes back to a "kinder gentler" version and that is where they are now."
This reflects a popular belief that there was a "kinder gentler" version of the past TWI days to go back to. I don't know when that was. I think he should explain that statement.
"This time will be a real catharsis. Just hold fast to that which is good. But in the end, you should be better and stronger for it."
I agree. Each person needs to sort out what that "good" was and question EVERYTHING; start from scratch in my opinion.
"you still have a Godly calling and that ministry is directed towards other believers, so it functions best within a body of some kind."
This is an assumption of many people when they want to perpetuate Christian groups. This thinking was promoted by the Apostle Paul to build his organization. Think carefully about whether or not this is what you want to do.
"For example, there are a whole lot of people in twi who know things are wrong and have decided to try to change it from within."
In my view, they would need to know what to change TWI into. What would that be?
The fact is, the nature of a group like that is a closed system and the foundation is rooted too deep to change.
Disassociation from the group and starting a new life is better.
There IS A WHOLE WIDE WORLD out here and plenty of chances to meet fabulous people and learn things and ENJOY LIFE.
Peace,
Charlene
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Bolshevik
Delusion as all some have. There's nowhere to go for them.
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Bolshevik
Debatable.
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chockfull
Nice sentiments from Geek. A good solid Biblical perspective on dealing with adversity and getting over hurt through Job's examples are a good start. One of the astounding things about the book of Job is the lengths to which Job went to help his friends. He was subjected to much more than you would expect a human being to take from those 3. I don't know if it was all planned by Job, reading it through more likely those were the people around him at the time for better or worse and he worked with what he had and God honored his heart and turned things around.
I can pray for those still within TWI who have a pure heart I suppose. And yet the more time that goes on and the longer people are around it, I have to believe that they see signs of the corruption that exists, see evidence of good people being screwed over, see the lies being told. And the longer people see evil and do nothing about it the less pure their own hearts are. How much should one compromise their own integrety to try and change the hard of heart? It's a personal choice.
For me, I don't pray for them in general. It's not that they couldn't use it or I couldn't do it, it's simply a matter of priority. There are those within my own house and my own friends who need prayer. This prayer took second place to the people, purposes and goals of TWI when I was in. To me this is exactly the opposite of Haggai 1. It's not those in my own house that dwell in cieled houses while this house lays waste. It's exactly opposite. It's that house that is cieled while the household lays waste.
My advice from those leaving is build up your own house. You've spent far too long building up someone else's dreams, political offices, salaries, organizations. Take care of your own. Go on vacation. Take a class. Pursue a hobby you've always wanted to. Nows the time to enrich your life. If you crave service, volunteer for something not religion related.
God's house will take care of itself. And the Body of Christ is much more wide, wonderful and organization independant than you know.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Posted Yesterday, 09:31 PM
Research Geek has given you God's perspective on things. . .
"Debatable".............per Bolshevik.
imho, the geek has given the perspective of another twi offshoot, cffm............debatable at best................penworks' post provides more of "god's perspective" than the geek's, imho............good questions too................any answers??????...................peace.
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krys
Thanks - all of you - for the instruction! I definitely will review the lessons.
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waysider
Speaking only for myself.
I'm not sure I ever felt like I had a "calling".
If I did, maybe it was to be myself and not the person some organization (religious or otherwise) would like me to be.
I'm still working on that.
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DontWorryBeHappy
"...twi realized that things had gone too far because people were leaving in droves, so they racheted rfr's changes back to a "kinder gentler" version and that is where they are now."
"This reflects a popular belief that there was a "kinder gentler" version of the past TWI days to go back to. I don't know when that was. I think he should explain that statement."
i agree penworks.....wholeheartedly!................how about an explanation geek, about your leadership role in the "real" "kinder, gentler version" of twi that the offshoot, way tree splinter group you help to run has been providing to twi fugees for more than a decade now?
how far removed from grampa wierwille's doctrines and practices is cffm really?........just wondering, since you posted what you did, if you'll respond to penworks' thoughtful post............hoping you will, and that a lively, civil discussion will ensue..............thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and...............peace.
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krys
Regarding kinder and gentler these are terms I used when I started a different thread a few weeks ago. At the present time, it seems that twi is both. I ran into a friend I had "back in the day" and she told me that many folks are returning because of the kinder gentler attitude. There is at present some kind of certificate program whereas for longevity, the individuals are rewarded with a certificate of recognition at the Anniversary weekend. She told me that all those folks who have gone back have gotten appropriate certificates even though they left for a time. "All I have to do is call the Limb leader and I'm in like flynn" In my case, I think it's more likely they would locate me with an unmanned drone of some sort and drop a good sized bomb on me....
They don't hound you about regular attendance. There are a number of things which are eased up. This is at the present time in my location. I'm specifying this because I don't want somebody held to a standard which just did not exist at their time. Fair is Fair, after all. I know of no other time when there was anything like this.....kinder and gentler.
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waysider
Do they still teach the law of believing?
I'm just sayin'----
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penworks
Well, the fact remains that TWI and its offshoots are fundamentalist Christian groups (the term "Christian" is questionable, I know) and while some people like that sort of system because it seems to offer a sense of certainty about stuff like what the Bible REALLY says, etc, lots of other people aren't interested in that system.
For starters, they find it a system of denial about all sorts of things. Things like the cultural roots of Christianity are vastly different than the society we live in today, so to try and recreate the first century church today is a pipe dream (not to mention there was no clear-cut first century church, but that's another story). That's just a tiny starter...
Personally, I find TWI and its offshoots as suffocating as a blanket over my head. Guess I feel pretty opinionated this morning...
Anyway,no matter how many certificates they hand out for good attendance, I'm pretty sure they would not want me back, I ask too many questions...
The one I'm asking myself right now is, what the heck I'm doing up at this hour on Sunday morning - oh, someone had the bright idea to change the time BACKWARDS. How do you reset your sleep cycle?
Peace and happy November! Where does the time go? Oh, yeah...it goes backwards, which is okay for ONE day but I sure hope they don't decide to crank it back 20 years. Although some groups seem to be trying to do that...
Peace,
Charlene
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waysider
Good Golly!
I look back at Fellow Laborers and think about how preposterously ironic the whole thing was.
Fifty people, living in what was, essentially, a commune, deluded into thinking we were recreating the first century church environment. How bizaare is that??? In retrospect, nothing we did resembled the first century "church". (And the program was promoted as a way to intensely study the book of Acts for two years so we could go back to our hometowns as better "leaders".)-------- I think it was more like a pipe BOMB than a pipe DREAM.
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skyrider
Or....crank it back 40 years (1969) when wierwille was the mog who walked the earth.
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geisha779
I like opinionated. . . it shows you are your own person! Thank goodness.
What did we lose being caught up in TWI at such a vulnerable time in our personal development?? We lost our true historical self. . . and for people to go back into that system because they are kinder. . . indicates many have never begun to recover themselves.
Off-shoots perpetuate that personality change which occurred in TWI. . . . the subtle persuasion. . . .the altered worldview. . . . it is insidious.
Thank-you for the disclaimer that TWI may not Christian. It is an imperative distinction for people to make. TWI's roots are mysticism and spiritualist, with some gnostic leanings. People hate hearing this. . . I get mail! However, if we want to be informed, we have to look at who influenced our fearless MOG VP and what he adopted as "lost Christianity". There is nothing new under the sun. Who were Kenyon, Stiles, and Leonard? What influenced them. Might be helpful to know. They were not really Orthodox guys.
This also helps if one decides to reject Christianity. It is good to know just what it is we are rejecting. TWI is one thing. . . the Christian faith another.
It helps when we are studying the first century church. . . . the break off sects, the why of divisions. . . and what historical Christianity does mean. Do you realize this is nearly impossible to do if we are still caught up in the idea that the metaphysical and occult based garbage VP passed off as Christianity is still our foundation for what it means to be Christian?
No wonder people chuck the whole thing all together. . . . it is such a tangled web of deceit and psychological abuse packaged so prettily under the guise of biblical research. . . .it is nearly impossible to untangle alone.
Thank goodness for GSC. . . and while I am thinking of it. . . it is no wonder you have people posting some 20 years out. . . . healing from this can take years. They messed with the deepest part of our psyche. Who we really are. . . . and most of us got caught up when our relationship to self was developing. . . . geeze talk about ugly. Christianity is about relationship BTW. It does not discount uniqueness of self in relation to God. . . .
If people want that Word of Faith . . . occult influenced belief system for themselves. . . no problem. . . that isn't the point. . . . . Shouldn't we at the least know what we are embracing and why we are so convinced it is the "truth"? How we were so persuaded, influenced and fundamentally changed?
We were in a cult. . . . we need to know what kind of cult. . . . how it worked. . . and the residual influence on our lives. Or. . . we can just go back because they are nicer now.
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waysider
All this talk about "kinder and gentler" made me remember this old tune:
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penworks
Thanks for the compliment above, DWBH, but I need to say that I shy away from any claims to having more of "god's perspective." I'm sure you understand where that can lead! But I agree with you that it is VERY important to say something about the value of perspectives; some are better, healthier, and more sound minded than others.
Cheers!
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