Shhhhhhh!----They might hear you.

[waysider]

I think it was in PFAL that Wierwille talked about how he would work all week on his Sunday sermon a bit each day and then put it in the desk drawer. He couldn't understand why, by Sunday, the congregation had hardened themselves against the topic. And then a little light bulb of understanding went off in his mind. It must be, he reasoned, that the Devil would take his sermon out of the drawer, look at it, and then whisper words of disagreement in the ears of the congregation all week. That's when, he said, he decided to keep his thoughts and teachings locked up in his mind where the Devil had no way to know them.

Later, in the Advanced Class, he talked about how "familiar spirits" hung about, gathering whatever information was brought into the open via spoken or written word. He also talked about how, if a person had a spirit, such as one of the many, many listed in the Advanced Class syllabus, that divulging information to said person was the same as divulging information to the Devil.

So here's the thing.

Were you ever in a conversation with someone who fit the criteria of the Advanced Class for devil possession (ie: alcoholic, suicidal, homosexual, schizophrenic, reincarnation advocate, etc.) and found yourself being very cautious about what you said to them? After all, you could be talking to a devil spirit. Heck, maybe you should even give them some bogus information like a secret agent who thinks he might be getting double crossed!

Am I making sense?

Suppose there is a person at work who is stereotypical of TWI's definition of "devil possessed". How much can you really reveal about your true thoughts and feelings to them, knowing you could be divulging your secrets to devil spirits?

Shhhhh!

Careful now---They might hear you.

[Ham]

Were you ever in a conversation with someone who fit the criteria of the Advanced Class for devil possession (ie: alcoholic, suicidal, homosexual, schizophrenic, reincarnation advocate, etc.)

reincarnation advocate.. hmm.

what's really weird.. people who fit the above descriptions, I have a *serious* interest in understanding why they think what they think..

as far as reincarnation goes.. I have a few vivid impressions of what may have been in other lifetimes. But of course, it is all subjective. It might only be another illusion, no worse than others..

[Ham]

I dunno.. in a way, its nice to fit one of the above descriptions. *They* will leave you alone.. won't "witness" so much or anything..

[waysider]

Why do I feel hungry when I think about "familia" spirits?

[Ham]

Maybe it has something to do with the fig pep and all..

actually.. I think the familia tasted a whole heck of a lot better with a little bit of olive oil..

but I "rolled my own" (the familia).. and it was a lot more generous with almonds, walnuts, pecans, etc.. than what would ordinarily be served..

[waysider]

Maybe it has something to do with the fig pep and all..

actually.. I think the familia tasted a whole heck of a lot better with a little bit of olive oil..

but I "rolled my own" (the familia).. and it was a lot more generous with almonds, walnuts, pecans, etc.. than what would ordinarily be served..

Well, the stuff we ate in FLO was mass produced by the food co-op, Manna.

Anyhow-----I was kinda thinking about the sort of built-in paranoia that came with some of those old teachings.

Some of that thinking lingered in me for decades. (Embarrassing but true.)

[Tzaia]

Now I know why I kept silent about my life before TWI.

[Oakspear]

Ironically in the latter days of TWI all teachings had to be submitted ahead of time.

[mstar1]

ronically in the latter days of TWI all teachings had to be submitted ahead of time.

The Devils (all on staff now) had to approve it

Edited October 11, 2009 by mstar1

[skyrider]

Ironically in the latter days of TWI all teachings had to be submitted ahead of time.

And.....doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of the pfal teachings.

Yet.....rosalie proclaims to uphold wierwille's ways.

[ChasUFarley]

Your post made me think of the "Cone of Silence" from Get Smart....

[Watered Garden]

Well, I have had conversations with people I was pretty damn sure were possessed, in fact, worked with a woman for a year who would blow up for no discernible reason and threaten to "go postal" on someone or other, usually the hapless soul who sat the closest to her desk, me. I wouldn't tell her where I lived, though she begged to come out and see the garden. She could be very pleasant one moment and then screaming about "the white man was out to get her" the next.

A couple of us were threatened by this woman. She had a pair of scissors at her desk with blades about a foot long, and I was pretty sure they were going to end up in my back or my supervisor's back. We were both very cautious about what personal information we gave her, locking our purses away when we left our desks even for a minute, lest this woman get our addresses pay a midnight visit to our respective abodes.

I don't think this was out of fear, just out of prudence. This woman was seriously deranged if not possessed, and we all breathed a sigh of relief when she announced she had had it with all of us and was transferring to another department.

WG

[waysider]

I probably didn't explain this very well.

I'm not talking about the obvious stuff that doesn't relate to TWI. Stuff like someone keeping a hand grenade on their desk or talking about blowing things up. That stuff doesn't require any affiliation with TWI to be a cause of alarm.

What I'm talking about is the things that relate directly to TWI teachings.

Stuff like someone you've gotten to know fairly well revealing to you they take meds. for bipolar disorder or that they've been a recovering alcoholic for the last ten years or that they have cancer or that they are homosexual but in the closet. That kind of stuff. When I was in TWI, I would find myself in those situations and suddenly feel a sense of paranoia about what I may have revealed to them. What have I said? Was I talking to a devil spirit? yada, yada, yada. Plus, there was always that guilt that I must have missed on the discerning of spirits angle.

I worked with a guy for a couple of years who was very normal. Very nice person. One day he revealed to me that he started life as a female but had surgically changed his identity to male. All kinds of TWI thinking goes through your head at times like that. Now, years later, I feel foolish and guilty for allowing my "Waybrain" to ruin what had been a good friendship. That's what I'm talking about.

Edited October 11, 2009 by waysider

[Nato]

Man, that story about Werewolf is awesome. What a cockamamie story to explain away why you don't like to do any real work preparing a teaching - I love it. "The Devil steels my teachings and then trash-talks me all week long to my congregation." BwahahahahaHA!

I'm happy to report that I've shed almost any trace of waybrain still left in my head, so no I don't really look at things with that bogus spiritual suspicion anymore. I realize that people with mental disorders aren't possessed, that gay people aren't evil perverts worthy of death, that there isn't some absurd spiritual realm swirling about my in some great competition. Losing all this baggage has allowed me to move completely past all of this and be a normal, happy, person without the influence of a congregation of F#CKT@RDS in my life. I've NEVER been happier.

[waysider]

Thanks, Nato, for "getting it".

Yeah, I've pretty much worked myself past all that stuff, too.

GSC played a big part in helping me do that.

AND---I never really thought about how Wierdwille used that explanation to hide his slothfulness. LOL.

Edited October 12, 2009 by waysider

[Watered Garden]

Oh. Sorry.

WG

[Broken Arrow]

Well, I have had conversations with people I was pretty damn sure were possessed, in fact, worked with a woman for a year who would blow up for no discernible reason and threaten to "go postal" on someone or other, usually the hapless soul who sat the closest to her desk, me. I wouldn't tell her where I lived, though she begged to come out and see the garden. She could be very pleasant one moment and then screaming about "the white man was out to get her" the next.

A couple of us were threatened by this woman. She had a pair of scissors at her desk with blades about a foot long, and I was pretty sure they were going to end up in my back or my supervisor's back. We were both very cautious about what personal information we gave her, locking our purses away when we left our desks even for a minute, lest this woman get our addresses pay a midnight visit to our respective abodes.

I don't think this was out of fear, just out of prudence. This woman was seriously deranged if not possessed, and we all breathed a sigh of relief when she announced she had had it with all of us and was transferring to another department.

WG

I think she took a job with the government.

[Broken Arrow]

What I'm talking about is the things that relate directly to TWI teachings.

Stuff like someone you've gotten to know fairly well revealing to you they take meds. for bipolar disorder or that they've been a recovering alcoholic for the last ten years or that they have cancer or that they are homosexual but in the closet. That kind of stuff. When I was in TWI, I would find myself in those situations and suddenly feel a sense of paranoia about what I may have revealed to them. What have I said? Was I talking to a devil spirit? yada, yada, yada. Plus, there was always that guilt that I must have missed on the discerning of spirits angle.

I worked with a guy for a couple of years who was very normal. Very nice person. One day he revealed to me that he started life as a female but had surgically changed his identity to male. All kinds of TWI thinking goes through your head at times like that. Now, years later, I feel foolish and guilty for allowing my "Waybrain" to ruin what had been a good friendship. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm only guessing here...but I'm thinking you must be the type of person people feel for whatever reason comfortable telling you their struggles. The real shame is that TWI "short-armed" you at a time where you may have been in a position to offer some compassion and understanding. Good thing you're out.

Edited October 12, 2009 by erkjohn

[JustThinking]

Why do I feel hungry when I think about "familia" spirits?

That made me snicker. :)

JT

[Watered Garden]

I wanted a Snickers instead of that familia!

WG

[JeffSjo]

And.....doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of the pfal teachings.

Yet.....rosalie proclaims to uphold wierwille's ways.

Sooo...I haven't seen TWI proper for quite a while... but let me get this one straight.

Wierwille gave us a self serving and really, really bad example of how he fought the devil in the course of his ministry.

Then in order to maintain their control over every friggin word and concept that people say TWI forces people to do the EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT WAS A VERY, VERY BAD STANDARD TO BEGIN WITH.

Then for the sake of public relations and giving the false appearance of uprightness on their part they lie straight up (Whether from self deception or deliberately I cannot always tell.) and insist that what they do is just.

So in the old days at least Wayfers were honest in their attempts to hold to a lousy standard, but now they only can lie about their standards of faith and practice because they feel they must give the appearance of loyalty in order to continue to fool the decieved.

IT KIND OF SEEMS TO ME THAT THEY HAVE WENT FROM THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE.

How pathetic it is that any Wayfer ever thought they were qualified to fight the devil. They have built lie on top of lie in their attempt to give the appearance of speaking the truth. And don't even get me started about the appearance of doing it "in love".....

[taxicab]

No, my answer to the question is a Big Fat NO! This is the thing about me. I never really believed that bull crap and yet I stuck around for 18 years so how embarrassing is that?

[Twinky]

Taxi... you never believed it but you stuck around anyway?????

Do you mean you didn't believe any of it;

or just that you didn't swallow the lot - but still managed to maintain some cynicism about some of the dogma?

[Tzaia]

No, my answer to the question is a Big Fat NO! This is the thing about me. I never really believed that bull crap and yet I stuck around for 18 years so how embarrassing is that?

A person does what they think they ought to do.

[taxicab]

Taxi... you never believed it but you stuck around anyway?????

Do you mean you didn't believe any of it;

or just that you didn't swallow the lot - but still managed to maintain some cynicism about some of the dogma?

Sorry for the confusion. To explain a little bit more; I believed in the beginning but while in the Way Corps there was so much that I didn't agree with and as the years went on I realized I believed less and less. It wasn't overnight but more gradual. For example, Craig waking us up in the middle of the night to teach us about devil spirits. I wasn't thinking to myself, "wow, this is really important stuff and that's why he thought it important enough to wake us up". I was thinking "this REALLY could have waited til tomorrow". As for what I believe now concerning devil spirits............. I believe that good things happen to good and bad people and that bad things happen to good and bad people. I don't believe in "devil spirits". Twinky, I hope that's a little clearer for you. But yes, I feel that I stuck around WAY TOO LONG!!! Edited October 13, 2009 by taxicab