What's more......the non-profit status is a gold mine for easy living. More than ever before, we are seeing an America "in which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else."
Where are the George Muellers ???
Where are those who hazard their lives for the gospel's sake ???
Where are the Hebrew 11 types who stood against defying odds ???
Where are those who hazard their lives for the gospel's sake ???
Where are the Hebrew 11 types who stood against defying odds ???
Oh, they're still around. You just can't find 'em in the places you mentioned (Internet, TV etc.) They're out actually doing things for people and it ain't signing folks up for a class, or trying to impress others with their great intellectual knowledge of whatever. But you're right, a lot of poo-poo is being shared as well.
Wesley traveled constantly, generally on horseback, preaching two or three times a day. Stephen Tomkins writes that he "rode 250,000 miles, gave away 30,000 pounds, . . . and preached more than 40,000 sermons[.]"
He formed societies, opened chapels, examined and commissioned preachers, administered aid charities, prescribed for the sick, helped to pioneer the use of electric shock for the treatment of illness, superintended schools and orphanages, received at least £20,000 for his publications, but used little of it for himself. His charities were limited only by his means. He rose at four in the morning, lived simply and methodically, and was never idle if he could help it.
The Wesley brothers travelled miles on horseback in dreadful weather conditions, across moors and through bogs. After some years, some Christians made a little room for them at the side of their house; it became a tiny chapel and is still there to this day.
They lived it and breathed it. They walked the talk. They didn't do it for the money (what money??!!)
I really would like to see some of these modern-day wannabe ministers sent out in the clothes they wear, $20 in their pocket, and forbid them or any organisation with which they may be associated from accepting any money or gifts in kind. I'd like to see some of them helping at soup kitchens, hospices, rehabilitation units - doing something. I'd like to see them washing someone's feet, wiping someone's bum, cleaning vomit off drunks, befriending homeless people.
Then, when they've learned something about servanthood - then, they might have something to share and teach.
I don't limit this to splinter group leaders, either. What about some of these televangelists? Yeah, right. Lot of fellowship, communion, personal interaction...with a TV set.
In the rural South, at the turn of the 20th century, there were preachers who would ride, on horseback, from one church-less town to the next. They were called Country Circuit Riding Preachers. (C.C. Riders) Over time, they developed a reputation for doing more than "preaching". Ma Rainey captured the essence of such activity when she penned the now well known tune, "C.C. Rider". -----Not much has changed.
I really would like to see some of these modern-day wannabe ministers sent out in the clothes they wear, $20 in their pocket, and forbid them or any organisation with which they may be associated from accepting any money or gifts in kind. I'd like to see some of them helping at soup kitchens, hospices, rehabilitation units - doing something. I'd like to see them washing someone's feet, wiping someone's bum, cleaning vomit off drunks, befriending homeless people.
EXACTLY.
Year after year, wierwille proclaimed that "one serves the people BY TEACHING THE WORD." And, then he'd go to a couple of selective verses that stated as such.......BUT what about all those other points where Jesus fed the thousands with loaves and fish? when Jesus spent all night in prayer to the Father? when Jesus cast out devils and the man was made whole? when Jesus heard the pleas of Mary and Martha and raised Lazarus from the dead? etc. etc.
With so many......"the word" must be upheld at all costs. The condescending attitude is so thick you can cut it with a knife. Their actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word they're saying.
That's why, for me, I endeavored to roll up my sleeves and help others with life's challenges. Even as a limb coordinator, I often would assist in moving furniture, loading moving vans, painting, setting up meeting rooms by myself, etc. etc......to undo the heavy burden of others. It just wasn't right to expect this entitlement from others.
And, today's splinter proliferation is just another extension of a power-grab. Heck, all of us can teach the bible.....right? Geez....I've heard enought bible that I could sit down and put together a teaching while watching a football game. So??????
Back in the 1920s, my grandparents attended home-churches that had an itinerant preacher who came once a month to their rural community. Back then, imagine the drastic contrast of sacrifice for his dedication and commitment....as compared to today's culture. With meager offerings, a hot meal and warm thanks -- the intinerant preacher was a rare breed.
Today......the "preachers and programs" are not only on every street corner, but can be in house-after-house before you get to the street corner. .
And, unfortunately, what they really have to offer has not improved one whit.
It's still simply false hopes and imagined comfort. Pretty thin gruel to peddle you'd think, but it still seems to work. Go figure...
Oh, they're still around. You just can't find 'em in the places you mentioned (Internet, TV etc.) They're out actually doing things for people and it ain't signing folks up for a class, or trying to impress others with their great intellectual knowledge of whatever. But you're right, a lot of poo-poo is being shared as well. /quote]
I know of a couple TV and internet preachers who do go on these types visits. Sometimes short ones. But I can think of two who often go for six to eight month visits at a time and actually live under the same conditions as the people he visited. They don't make a big deal about it and don't talk about it much it's just part of their lives and ministry. There are also a large number of TV and Internet preachers that fund missionaries. I've seen the financial statements for Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Hagin, and Joyce Meyer and all of these have a large amount of their budget going to help fund these types of missions and services.
none of them, the non profits here have to be viable and able to prove their ability to serve the community with actual numbers.
As it should be for the churches if they want to be exempt, nearly half of every paycheck I work hard for goes to pay taxes, if i give it to a org. I can claim it on my taxes. I think it is all just wrong . powerful motive to keep a very wrong system going tho.
geez if i didnt have to pay sales tax I could buy a nice camp in the country to enjoy and I got people who love me and would enjoy spending time together in it!
the catholic shurch vow of poverty is closer to the truth of Jesus Christ than what many of these org and church say is needed to function.
Again this stuff is crooked and does come down from twi I was in it back when, I can see how so many of the decisions and "direction" is just what he would do.
it worked for him and theses guys were "saved" many times by the group and spent many of their young days learning from him as the "father" in the word.
it was presented as life or death . But alot of it is ego now with grown men still living the onl way they know how.
I mean look at me I still listen to the tapes I still read the bible I still cling to much of what that time in my life began. For the love of god I divorced my ex and I have no need or desire to check out what he is doing or saying or believing and I had children with him!
yet i still do the leaders and guys from twi.
idk . kind of frightening. I do not know what I got myself into and geez i was not a fraction as invested as these guys had been.
I would have to get like George is and deny God in my life. I am not. but what I am is honest and pray alot.
You know I do not think I am right and the other guy wrong I just am.
I think that is why GS is helpful to me . who eles knows this mess?
i wont mock those like me either cuase I kind of get some of the thinking, but I do not give them time or money, I think that is were they remain a cult it is our neighbor we are to serve not a group defined by the certain few who say so.
The welfare state is so true and Im not just talking food stamps. People like John S jal have no clue what it is like in the real world. they work hard no doubt, so what, we all do. I want tax exempt status and a camp but I will never get it and you know what Im blessed with what I have. I have accountability to the world (oh no oh no!!) they are a bit afraid of that being possible, again no clue. They will people please only those who give them money just like I do my boss at work what the hell is the big difference I ask? except they claim to do it for Gods people and Jesus well so do I.
and I feel sorry for them I really do because that is were God lives and Jesus christ functions as our Saviour.
Even if they tip their big toe in the waters of real life the mind they have keeps telling them they are more needed by God they are more learned, obedient , and yes even loved by the true God.
is that not sad? It is no wonder to me they fight and fight and cant get along for long they fight over the powerful gifts they think God gave to them exclusively, oh yeah the other "born agains" have spirit but it isnt as muscular or strong or wise. oh come on.
it is sad.
it was the "gift ministry" teaching that hung so many and they still teach it , did they forget the gift ministries have a purpose ? not to build their empires but to build the body of christ they are on a part of the process and really not all that big of a part . twi sold gifts as more important I will tell ya the "gift ministries serve a very small fraction in the body of christ as far as getting the work of God done. Not to metion all those cling ons and wanna be's in a sense it is like believing in magic not the pwoer of God. God should get the glory but theses men want it and want to be surrounded by people who think they are the ones with the glory and the power still.
It is the workers for jesus who can get in the reality of life and help one another that make a difference in the world.
the gift ministries were a mess in the bible and still are today, good luck selling God on their life style because it is not pretty or anything anyone would want to be or do.
The other issue is because of the number of years they have studied words in the bible researched and investigated
nick picked they really believe any other person is just stupid. which ya know I had to live a life other than sitting at a desk reading and writing snd study of figures of speech etc... God still blessed my life.
so now they have more information and clinical words of understanding than the average man or woman. it is an attitude and what good does that knowledge do if no one can share with them in "understanding" the scripture except one another? talk about a cult.
jesus says to come as a little child. yes we are all to study BUT again the balance is messed up for many of those who came out of twi.
ok since im into this now I will say what I think about the topic for real .
I do not think anyone should be living off another.
The leaders from the spin off groups think they have a gift ministry and are special so the deserve to be taking care of .
The apostle Paul didnt live off the people , he had his own trade as did many of his helpers, Jesus christ had a very short lived time amoung the people 3 or 4 years at best. A BS degree takes about the same amount of time today.
Before He began preaching and teaching and raising the dead and miricles he had to do something to eat. he may have worked with His earthly father in his trade and that is why they called him a carpeters son.
When it all became to much the men he called as disciples got a real job they went back to work . they got a job.
Jesus spent his ministry amoung the people traveling and dealing with everyday life in communities.
I tell Jesus all the time he knows little about living in this middle age and elderly years we face. He died a young man with no kids and ya know just no sin!
tempted he was but I have actualy fallen and lived in the enemys areana !!! hello why I love Him so much. it is all about help help help for me.
If i had chosen to rely on a man or a woman to save me from the many messes I have gotten my life into I would have died a long long time ago. or money or being liked or my brain my family, anything eles has hurt me in life at some point .
This is why He says it is easier to push a camel through a needle when you have alot of money . I GET IT!!
man this world offers some great stuff it really does!!!! without God.
but Im so very thankful and to be honest I have no oppurtunity to have so I think I should stay a christian .
I am not saying Im right and anyone eles is wrong tho. many factors play into our life and how we live .
I personally don't have a problem with a minister living off of the ABS as long as he really is working full time and I do believe that he should have a comfortable living wage. But I also believe that any church should be working both in its community and at least donating to other groups who are helping the poor and/or spreading the gospel. They should also be helping their own when they have a need. Any church or ministry that is not doing this is not really following the word as I understand it. It's interesting when Judas left the others thought he was leaving to give to the poor. Why would they think that if it was not something that they regularly did?
As far as churches being tax exempt and our being able to deduct our gifts from our taxes; I like being able to do that. It's nice that the US allows churches to be tax exempt, and I intend to make use of it when I pay my taxes, I would be stupid not to. However, if it changed and I couldn't deduct it, it wouldn't change my giving in the slightest.
I think one of the problems is that the IRS really doesn't ask for proof that the church is ministering. The churches are required to keep records, and if challenged produce them for the IRS, but the IRS doesn't really check to make sure that a ministry really is ministering. I don't see any reason why a church shouldn't be required to at least file a statement showing incoming monies, expenses and salaries, and at least general benevolence gifts. If they give to an organization there is no reason the organization should not be named, if to an individual a list of the amounts and nature, without names, of the benevolence gifts given out. If a church is not doing this, I see no reason why the tax exempt status could not be revoked. Currently under current tax law, the only requirements for a ministry being tax exempt is that, 1) they teach their religion and 2) they don't get political.
Keith, certainly the laborer is worthy of his hire and should be able to live off donations given by the people he helps. The donation is not "ABS" or a tithe. It is what the person can properly afford to give.
Don't you think some of the splinter group leaders are actually stating they are laborers and demanding a laborer's wage, but then not doing the laboring? That maybe any laboring they do do is on their own behalf, and not their paymaster's?
Unfortunately, yes some are and so are some other ministers who were not ever associated with TWI. TWI was not really unique. They are just the ones we at greasespot are most familiar with. I also know of some splinter group ministers who do work full time ministering. There are good and bad people everywhere. In the end God will judge. I was just using ABS to cover everything tithe, offering, gifts. May not have been the best term to use. That's also why I said that I felt churches should have to file some records with the IRS to prove they are ministering.
Keith, certainly the laborer is worthy of his hire and should be able to live off donations given by the people he helps. The donation is not "ABS" or a tithe. It is what the person can properly afford to give.
Don't you think some of the splinter group leaders are actually stating they are laborers and demanding a laborer's wage, but then not doing the laboring? That maybe any laboring they do do is on their own behalf, and not their paymaster's?
The qualifications of a minister are in I Timothy 3......some don't qualify.
With today's technology and culture, many of these "ministries" reach long-distant followers. From that respect, how much ministering really goes on except for a teaching tape and the occasional phone call?
To each his own, I guess......but I tend to think that past associations and manipulation play a part in some of this splinter stuff. Why is it that these ex-twi "ministers" keep going back to their rolodex files/phone numbers of ex-twi followers? WHERE IS THE NEW GROWTH? WHERE ARE THOSE REVIVAL MOVEMENTS OF NEW CONVERTS?
Just saying......it mostly seems like business networking.
I also believe that any church should be working both in its community and at least donating to other groups who are helping the poor and/or spreading the gospel. They should also be helping their own when they have a need. Any church or ministry that is not doing this is not really following the word as I understand it. It's interesting when Judas left the others thought he was leaving to give to the poor. Why would they think that if it was not something that they regularly did?
Good point. I think it's pretty safe to say that no one would mistake a splinter ldr leaving with the intent of giving to the poor.
These guys HAVE to be running out of ex-wayfers to fleece. . . . one would think. . . . there were only so many of us to begin with.
You would thinks so wouldnt you?
I could probably recite all the old teachings word for word that I havent heard in 20 years myself if i set my mind to it but I have absolutely zero desire to do so.
Almost as amazing as 'the proliferation of propped up preachers and programs" are the people who sit there, listen to it, and give their money away to these sideshow acts decade after decade
Aside from having a good portion of your spiritual, emotional, financial and thoughtlife stolen from you, Doesnt it just get incredibly boring after awhile?
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crystalclearblue
Who is JAL?
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Bishop
john lynn
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skyrider
Where are the George Muellers ???
Where are those who hazard their lives for the gospel's sake ???
Where are the Hebrew 11 types who stood against defying odds ???
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Broken Arrow
Oh, they're still around. You just can't find 'em in the places you mentioned (Internet, TV etc.) They're out actually doing things for people and it ain't signing folks up for a class, or trying to impress others with their great intellectual knowledge of whatever. But you're right, a lot of poo-poo is being shared as well.
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Twinky
Charles Wesley:
Quote from this article:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/John_Wesley
His brother Charles also travelled on evangelising missions, and wrote many hymns. Some of those are still familiar today.
http://en.wikipedia..../Charles_Wesley
The Wesley brothers travelled miles on horseback in dreadful weather conditions, across moors and through bogs. After some years, some Christians made a little room for them at the side of their house; it became a tiny chapel and is still there to this day.
They lived it and breathed it. They walked the talk. They didn't do it for the money (what money??!!)
I really would like to see some of these modern-day wannabe ministers sent out in the clothes they wear, $20 in their pocket, and forbid them or any organisation with which they may be associated from accepting any money or gifts in kind. I'd like to see some of them helping at soup kitchens, hospices, rehabilitation units - doing something. I'd like to see them washing someone's feet, wiping someone's bum, cleaning vomit off drunks, befriending homeless people.
Then, when they've learned something about servanthood - then, they might have something to share and teach.
I don't limit this to splinter group leaders, either. What about some of these televangelists? Yeah, right. Lot of fellowship, communion, personal interaction...with a TV set.
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waysider
In the rural South, at the turn of the 20th century, there were preachers who would ride, on horseback, from one church-less town to the next. They were called Country Circuit Riding Preachers. (C.C. Riders) Over time, they developed a reputation for doing more than "preaching". Ma Rainey captured the essence of such activity when she penned the now well known tune, "C.C. Rider". -----Not much has changed.
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skyrider
EXACTLY.
Year after year, wierwille proclaimed that "one serves the people BY TEACHING THE WORD." And, then he'd go to a couple of selective verses that stated as such.......BUT what about all those other points where Jesus fed the thousands with loaves and fish? when Jesus spent all night in prayer to the Father? when Jesus cast out devils and the man was made whole? when Jesus heard the pleas of Mary and Martha and raised Lazarus from the dead? etc. etc.
With so many......"the word" must be upheld at all costs. The condescending attitude is so thick you can cut it with a knife. Their actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word they're saying.
That's why, for me, I endeavored to roll up my sleeves and help others with life's challenges. Even as a limb coordinator, I often would assist in moving furniture, loading moving vans, painting, setting up meeting rooms by myself, etc. etc......to undo the heavy burden of others. It just wasn't right to expect this entitlement from others.
And, today's splinter proliferation is just another extension of a power-grab. Heck, all of us can teach the bible.....right? Geez....I've heard enought bible that I could sit down and put together a teaching while watching a football game. So??????
I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day !!!
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Kevin Fallon
AMEN!
They speak louder than words.
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George Aar
And, unfortunately, what they really have to offer has not improved one whit.
It's still simply false hopes and imagined comfort. Pretty thin gruel to peddle you'd think, but it still seems to work. Go figure...
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Keith
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pond
I do not believe churches should be tax exempt!
none of them, the non profits here have to be viable and able to prove their ability to serve the community with actual numbers.
As it should be for the churches if they want to be exempt, nearly half of every paycheck I work hard for goes to pay taxes, if i give it to a org. I can claim it on my taxes. I think it is all just wrong . powerful motive to keep a very wrong system going tho.
geez if i didnt have to pay sales tax I could buy a nice camp in the country to enjoy and I got people who love me and would enjoy spending time together in it!
the catholic shurch vow of poverty is closer to the truth of Jesus Christ than what many of these org and church say is needed to function.
Again this stuff is crooked and does come down from twi I was in it back when, I can see how so many of the decisions and "direction" is just what he would do.
it worked for him and theses guys were "saved" many times by the group and spent many of their young days learning from him as the "father" in the word.
it was presented as life or death . But alot of it is ego now with grown men still living the onl way they know how.
I mean look at me I still listen to the tapes I still read the bible I still cling to much of what that time in my life began. For the love of god I divorced my ex and I have no need or desire to check out what he is doing or saying or believing and I had children with him!
yet i still do the leaders and guys from twi.
idk . kind of frightening. I do not know what I got myself into and geez i was not a fraction as invested as these guys had been.
I would have to get like George is and deny God in my life. I am not. but what I am is honest and pray alot.
You know I do not think I am right and the other guy wrong I just am.
I think that is why GS is helpful to me . who eles knows this mess?
i wont mock those like me either cuase I kind of get some of the thinking, but I do not give them time or money, I think that is were they remain a cult it is our neighbor we are to serve not a group defined by the certain few who say so.
The welfare state is so true and Im not just talking food stamps. People like John S jal have no clue what it is like in the real world. they work hard no doubt, so what, we all do. I want tax exempt status and a camp but I will never get it and you know what Im blessed with what I have. I have accountability to the world (oh no oh no!!) they are a bit afraid of that being possible, again no clue. They will people please only those who give them money just like I do my boss at work what the hell is the big difference I ask? except they claim to do it for Gods people and Jesus well so do I.
and I feel sorry for them I really do because that is were God lives and Jesus christ functions as our Saviour.
Even if they tip their big toe in the waters of real life the mind they have keeps telling them they are more needed by God they are more learned, obedient , and yes even loved by the true God.
is that not sad? It is no wonder to me they fight and fight and cant get along for long they fight over the powerful gifts they think God gave to them exclusively, oh yeah the other "born agains" have spirit but it isnt as muscular or strong or wise. oh come on.
it is sad.
it was the "gift ministry" teaching that hung so many and they still teach it , did they forget the gift ministries have a purpose ? not to build their empires but to build the body of christ they are on a part of the process and really not all that big of a part . twi sold gifts as more important I will tell ya the "gift ministries serve a very small fraction in the body of christ as far as getting the work of God done. Not to metion all those cling ons and wanna be's in a sense it is like believing in magic not the pwoer of God. God should get the glory but theses men want it and want to be surrounded by people who think they are the ones with the glory and the power still.
It is the workers for jesus who can get in the reality of life and help one another that make a difference in the world.
the gift ministries were a mess in the bible and still are today, good luck selling God on their life style because it is not pretty or anything anyone would want to be or do.
The other issue is because of the number of years they have studied words in the bible researched and investigated
nick picked they really believe any other person is just stupid. which ya know I had to live a life other than sitting at a desk reading and writing snd study of figures of speech etc... God still blessed my life.
so now they have more information and clinical words of understanding than the average man or woman. it is an attitude and what good does that knowledge do if no one can share with them in "understanding" the scripture except one another? talk about a cult.
jesus says to come as a little child. yes we are all to study BUT again the balance is messed up for many of those who came out of twi.
wow I went nuts . good day. lol
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pond
ok since im into this now I will say what I think about the topic for real .
I do not think anyone should be living off another.
The leaders from the spin off groups think they have a gift ministry and are special so the deserve to be taking care of .
The apostle Paul didnt live off the people , he had his own trade as did many of his helpers, Jesus christ had a very short lived time amoung the people 3 or 4 years at best. A BS degree takes about the same amount of time today.
Before He began preaching and teaching and raising the dead and miricles he had to do something to eat. he may have worked with His earthly father in his trade and that is why they called him a carpeters son.
When it all became to much the men he called as disciples got a real job they went back to work . they got a job.
Jesus spent his ministry amoung the people traveling and dealing with everyday life in communities.
I tell Jesus all the time he knows little about living in this middle age and elderly years we face. He died a young man with no kids and ya know just no sin!
tempted he was but I have actualy fallen and lived in the enemys areana !!! hello why I love Him so much. it is all about help help help for me.
If i had chosen to rely on a man or a woman to save me from the many messes I have gotten my life into I would have died a long long time ago. or money or being liked or my brain my family, anything eles has hurt me in life at some point .
This is why He says it is easier to push a camel through a needle when you have alot of money . I GET IT!!
man this world offers some great stuff it really does!!!! without God.
but Im so very thankful and to be honest I have no oppurtunity to have so I think I should stay a christian .
I am not saying Im right and anyone eles is wrong tho. many factors play into our life and how we live .
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Keith
I personally don't have a problem with a minister living off of the ABS as long as he really is working full time and I do believe that he should have a comfortable living wage. But I also believe that any church should be working both in its community and at least donating to other groups who are helping the poor and/or spreading the gospel. They should also be helping their own when they have a need. Any church or ministry that is not doing this is not really following the word as I understand it. It's interesting when Judas left the others thought he was leaving to give to the poor. Why would they think that if it was not something that they regularly did?
As far as churches being tax exempt and our being able to deduct our gifts from our taxes; I like being able to do that. It's nice that the US allows churches to be tax exempt, and I intend to make use of it when I pay my taxes, I would be stupid not to. However, if it changed and I couldn't deduct it, it wouldn't change my giving in the slightest.
I think one of the problems is that the IRS really doesn't ask for proof that the church is ministering. The churches are required to keep records, and if challenged produce them for the IRS, but the IRS doesn't really check to make sure that a ministry really is ministering. I don't see any reason why a church shouldn't be required to at least file a statement showing incoming monies, expenses and salaries, and at least general benevolence gifts. If they give to an organization there is no reason the organization should not be named, if to an individual a list of the amounts and nature, without names, of the benevolence gifts given out. If a church is not doing this, I see no reason why the tax exempt status could not be revoked. Currently under current tax law, the only requirements for a ministry being tax exempt is that, 1) they teach their religion and 2) they don't get political.
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Twinky
Keith, certainly the laborer is worthy of his hire and should be able to live off donations given by the people he helps. The donation is not "ABS" or a tithe. It is what the person can properly afford to give.
Don't you think some of the splinter group leaders are actually stating they are laborers and demanding a laborer's wage, but then not doing the laboring? That maybe any laboring they do do is on their own behalf, and not their paymaster's?
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Keith
Unfortunately, yes some are and so are some other ministers who were not ever associated with TWI. TWI was not really unique. They are just the ones we at greasespot are most familiar with. I also know of some splinter group ministers who do work full time ministering. There are good and bad people everywhere. In the end God will judge. I was just using ABS to cover everything tithe, offering, gifts. May not have been the best term to use. That's also why I said that I felt churches should have to file some records with the IRS to prove they are ministering.
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geisha779
These guys HAVE to be running out of ex-wayfers to fleece. . . . one would think. . . . there were only so many of us to begin with.
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skyrider
The qualifications of a minister are in I Timothy 3......some don't qualify.
With today's technology and culture, many of these "ministries" reach long-distant followers. From that respect, how much ministering really goes on except for a teaching tape and the occasional phone call?
To each his own, I guess......but I tend to think that past associations and manipulation play a part in some of this splinter stuff. Why is it that these ex-twi "ministers" keep going back to their rolodex files/phone numbers of ex-twi followers? WHERE IS THE NEW GROWTH? WHERE ARE THOSE REVIVAL MOVEMENTS OF NEW CONVERTS?
Just saying......it mostly seems like business networking.
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waysider
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck-----------
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WOG
Good point. I think it's pretty safe to say that no one would mistake a splinter ldr leaving with the intent of giving to the poor.
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mstar1
You would thinks so wouldnt you?
I could probably recite all the old teachings word for word that I havent heard in 20 years myself if i set my mind to it but I have absolutely zero desire to do so.
Almost as amazing as 'the proliferation of propped up preachers and programs" are the people who sit there, listen to it, and give their money away to these sideshow acts decade after decade
Aside from having a good portion of your spiritual, emotional, financial and thoughtlife stolen from you, Doesnt it just get incredibly boring after awhile?
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Ham
I almost expected you to say..
If it walks like a multi-level marketing program, and quacks like a multi-level program...
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