Much of The Purpose Driven Life book is Christianity 101. However, it can be creepy, too. Day (chapter) 19 deals with reproofs and corrections in a church family or small group. The small group I was in when I first studied this book was run by a couple, and the wife, who to my mind was as untrustworthy as Satan, was very excited about us getting to the place where we were always confronting one another, reproving one another and in each others' faces all the time. I suspect what she really meant was there were a lot of things she wanted to get in others' faces about, rather than someone getting right back in hers.
I of course had been there and done that, so that was my last adventure in small groupiness.
It's not TWI, and you can learn things, but I'd be cautious if I were you. Sometimes that whole experience just gives me the shivers.
I think another poster here, I'm pretty sure it was Belle, had an even more adverse reaction than I did. You might PM her for some more insight.
I just have gotten to the point that I don't want people in my face, or in my business for that matter.
Leafy, if you use the Search function, right under your picture in the upper right hand corner, and type in The Purpose Driven Life, you will find that there are lots of thoughts on the subject from GSC's past.
Watered Garden.. Thanks so much... I found the threads-- Good info on the books and insight, and both pros and cons about the teachings... and if they were helpful and what was not helpful.
Edited to add Really thank you because forewarned is forearmed. I have avoided joining any small group, This is one of those situations were I may or may not stick it out.
I do have the excuse of an overload of school to fall back on as the couple running it are friends... and I can see they have bought into the whole program.. . I will never again fully buy any program. so yeah... and I am already un comfortable with it.
I will say this it so far seems to be about finding healing for past hurts but I have this sneaking suspicion it is all about getting new people into their church. I have no interest in joining their fundamentalist church... so I am probably just "Dead wood"(twi slang not their term) anyway.
Well, you know, I liked the church, just not the small group. The couple who coordinated the small group previously had decided to allow this second couple to take over. He was the nicest guy; she was to say the least legalistic. This was the same woman I had written about who had the snit fit about me sharing on a chapter of TPDL. I could never find it in my heart, however, to give her a nice blasting face-melt. I figured it would not have done much good.
I think it is very wise to use great caution in getting involved in any class, group, retreat, what have you. If your gut is telling you this isn't right, I'd listen. That is what I did with the church plant we recently exited; I was mentally outta there a few months before Mr. Garden started asking me questions about their doctrine, affiliations, etc. I had already done the research and was armed and dangerous.
And another thought...if this group encourages you to open up to them and share past hurts, really personal stuff, even stuff about TWI, I would probably not. Even friends need to give a little space.
The only individual I ever shared a whole lot with about my TWI experience was a licensed psychologist who was treating me for depression.
And another thought...if this group encourages you to open up to them and share past hurts, really personal stuff, even stuff about TWI, I would probably not. Even friends need to give a little space.
The only individual I ever shared a whole lot with about my TWI experience was a licensed psychologist who was treating me for depression.
WG
Yeah I caught that the first night.
IT is a case of what she thinks I need healing from and what I am trying to work on in my life right now.
I have done nothing but think about it since I posted and you answered.
I have the booklet and I am going to spend time this weekend going all the way through the exercises to the end to see what is intended.
I am at this point just sticking my toe in.. IF it really looks like it is going to get too invasive I will pull out. Before I go any further in. I just do not want another TWI experience, even if it is not so invasive.. Even though my time in was not as horrific as others I came away from it with some real hurts .. IT took me along time to realize God loved me whether I was in TWI or some where else.. and a long to to get over the guilt of leaving our TWIG.
That first lesson DVD for this class though is just creepy... I thought it so reminded me of TWI .. which is why I posted on here.
WG I really can not thank you enough for all your input. Also Once I review it all I think I will post what I see on here just in case anyone else has questions about it.
It is their newest class since the other two, "the purpose driven life" and "the purpose driven church".
They encourage you to go threw it a t the same time as the class but I am not a lamb to be led to the slaughter anymore.
IT is a case of what she thinks I need healing from and what I am trying to work on in my life right now.
I have done nothing but think about it since I posted and you answered.
I have the booklet and I am going to spend time this weekend going all the way through the exercises to the end to see what is intended.
I am at this point just sticking my toe in.. IF it really looks like it is going to get too invasive I will pull out. Before I go any further in. I just do not want another TWI experience, even if it is not so invasive.. Even though my time in was not as horrific as others I came away from it with some real hurts .. IT took me along time to realize God loved me whether I was in TWI or some where else.. and a long to to get over the guilt of leaving our TWIG.
That first lesson DVD for this class though is just creepy... I thought it so reminded me of TWI .. which is why I posted on here.
WG I really can not thank you enough for all your input. Also Once I review it all I think I will post what I see on here just in case anyone else has questions about it.
It is their newest class since the other two, "the purpose driven life" and "the purpose driven church".
They encourage you to go threw it a t the same time as the class but I am not a lamb to be led to the slaughter anymore.
Leafytwiglet, you sound like you're in a good place to evaluate what they're planning to "do to" you. Sorry. I meant "for" you. LOL!!! And, I'll bet they think they're doing something new.
For a long time I doubted myself. I thought I was being 'too sensitive" or "too defensive." 'Pride' was another bugaboo.
However, this last church plant, with a young (to me) minister who seemed to be interested most of all in going out to eat on the church's dime at least twice a day and then was promulgating a doctrine I found less than wholesome, really opened my eyes. Young, ambitious pastor meets charismatic lightning rod of a "leader" who preaches with confidence and occasional profanity and frequent downright meanness, a doctrine which is so "thus saith the Lord" that he will condemn to hellfire anyone who disagrees; "the sin is in questioning"; something supposedly new, exciting and different with a new large following; I saw in my mind's eye the young man who was our last BL, who worshipped the ground LCM put his size 12's on.
When this guy came over to our house after we e-mailed a letter announcing our departure, he was loud, defensive, and politely belligerent; he and his master both believe that women MUST be silent in the church, yet I was the one doing most of the explanation of our differences (Mr. Garden was smiling hugely in approval) and it didn't matter what I said I was wrong; even to say that I didn't believe God would do worse for His children than an earthly father would for his was blasphemy. I am comparing God to man! Geez, five years of seminary and you never heard of condescensio?
Trust your gut; if your skin crawls, your stomach clenches, and you shrink from attending; RUN!
My response nowadays to religious people who try to drag me into false doctrines and weird classes is this: "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO COME BETWEEN ME AND MY HEAVENLY FATHER!"
Young, ambitious pastor meets charismatic lightning rod of a "leader" who preaches with confidence and occasional profanity and frequent downright meanness,
hmmm. a lighting "rod".. to scare these spooks away..
he's been up for a week..
Waysider, maybe you could finish the reference..
sometimes I think.. I'd rather have the "false drugs"..
powerful gasoline, and a clean windshield can only get one only so far..
if they could only rid us of the drunk drivers here..
A lightning rod attracts lightning and diffuses it. The man I referred to attracts criticism, talk, and controversy and diffuses it. That is why I used the reference to a lightning rod. They used to put them on top of houses in the Midwest in hopes of saving themselves from a lightning strike. Probably caused more of them, actually.
All kidding aside, how close are you to your friend? I was just a bit concerned b/c I made a friend once who ran fellowships and later discovered she really was just a "friend." In other words, she saw me as a potential contributor to her and her hub's group. My husband did eventually start going to their "church" and we later contributed quite a bit to their organization. They were doing "inner healing" which turned out to be just them getting people to tell their deepest darkest secrets after lying on the floor and listening to praise music over the course of several month and later years.
I feel very foolish even talking about it now and sincerely hope this isn't the same type of thing that your friend or "friend" is doing.
"I was wrong; even to say that I didn't believe God would do worse for His children than an earthly father would for his was blasphemy. I am comparing God to man! Geez, five years of seminary and you never heard of condescensio?"
Come to think of it, and of course I NEVER think of these things when I need to, Jesus did the same thing: He asked if your child asks for a fish will you give him a scorpion, or if he asks for bread will you give him a stone? And I forget the exact book, chapter and verse, but He goes on to say that if you as earthly father will give good things to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give you His children?
Gosh, I hope this young man gets a chance to tell Jesus HE was wrong? Uh-huh, how's THAT workin' for ya?
A lot of times with books like the Rick Warren stuff, the literature itself can be helpful, or at least harmless. It's what people do with it that is dangerous. Maybe this book genuinely seeks to assist those who are hurting. But in the wrong hands, which is where this crap usually ends up, it can be a spear to puncture your heart.
The first church plant we were involved with, from which emerged the second church plant that I mentioned above, had small groups and Mr. Garden and I were to be group leaders; in fact, we took over the original pastor's small group when he went to jail, and we had this very organized criteria that the associate pastor, who became the pastor of the second church plant, and selected. It was based on TPDL. It was very structured and boring as hell. Therefore, Mr. Garden simply abandoned it and starting teaching Bible. Everybody loved it.
Then, of course, came the second church plant, small groups were disbanded, and when the young pastor decided to have other small groups we weren't asked to be leaders, which was lovely, because we were already disenchanted and subsequently left.
I know this is somewhat confusing; we were in a church plant that failed due to the pastor getting busted. The pastor of the subsequent church plant was the associate pastor of the first church plant.
WB I am thinking this may be the true test of our friendship. But one of the many lessons I have learned thru the years is most people who are friends are really just "friends" IT is the rare person who comes into your life and really is interested and concerned for you.. and would go out of their way to help you. I have had several true friends and have a couple of them that I see every day. I am hoping that her walk as a Christian is bigger than that.
So if this should turn out badly I will be okay
WG. IT makes perfect sense.. and well I find it interesting that people really just want to learn about God's word and prefer studying it to some ones take on it all. The trouble is it is difficult to find that. I firmly believe that is the biggest reason most folks got involved with TWI in the first place, they thought they were really going to learn to read and understand the bible. VP hid his true agenda behind lots of bible verses.
I still wish TWI had actually been what it sold itself as being. Now that I am older I realize how unrealistic that would be, But I still wish it.
When I signed the green card, I told my boss: "I know what the Methodists say about God. I know what the Catholics say about God. I'm taking this class to find out what God has to say about Himself.'
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Watered Garden
Much of The Purpose Driven Life book is Christianity 101. However, it can be creepy, too. Day (chapter) 19 deals with reproofs and corrections in a church family or small group. The small group I was in when I first studied this book was run by a couple, and the wife, who to my mind was as untrustworthy as Satan, was very excited about us getting to the place where we were always confronting one another, reproving one another and in each others' faces all the time. I suspect what she really meant was there were a lot of things she wanted to get in others' faces about, rather than someone getting right back in hers.
I of course had been there and done that, so that was my last adventure in small groupiness.
It's not TWI, and you can learn things, but I'd be cautious if I were you. Sometimes that whole experience just gives me the shivers.
I think another poster here, I'm pretty sure it was Belle, had an even more adverse reaction than I did. You might PM her for some more insight.
I just have gotten to the point that I don't want people in my face, or in my business for that matter.
WG
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Watered Garden
Leafy, if you use the Search function, right under your picture in the upper right hand corner, and type in The Purpose Driven Life, you will find that there are lots of thoughts on the subject from GSC's past.
WG
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leafytwiglet
Watered Garden.. Thanks so much... I found the threads-- Good info on the books and insight, and both pros and cons about the teachings... and if they were helpful and what was not helpful.
Edited to add Really thank you because forewarned is forearmed. I have avoided joining any small group, This is one of those situations were I may or may not stick it out.
I do have the excuse of an overload of school to fall back on as the couple running it are friends... and I can see they have bought into the whole program.. . I will never again fully buy any program. so yeah... and I am already un comfortable with it.
I will say this it so far seems to be about finding healing for past hurts but I have this sneaking suspicion it is all about getting new people into their church. I have no interest in joining their fundamentalist church... so I am probably just "Dead wood"(twi slang not their term) anyway.
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Watered Garden
Well, you know, I liked the church, just not the small group. The couple who coordinated the small group previously had decided to allow this second couple to take over. He was the nicest guy; she was to say the least legalistic. This was the same woman I had written about who had the snit fit about me sharing on a chapter of TPDL. I could never find it in my heart, however, to give her a nice blasting face-melt. I figured it would not have done much good.
I think it is very wise to use great caution in getting involved in any class, group, retreat, what have you. If your gut is telling you this isn't right, I'd listen. That is what I did with the church plant we recently exited; I was mentally outta there a few months before Mr. Garden started asking me questions about their doctrine, affiliations, etc. I had already done the research and was armed and dangerous.
I won't get fooled again!
WG
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Watered Garden
And another thought...if this group encourages you to open up to them and share past hurts, really personal stuff, even stuff about TWI, I would probably not. Even friends need to give a little space.
The only individual I ever shared a whole lot with about my TWI experience was a licensed psychologist who was treating me for depression.
WG
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leafytwiglet
Yeah I caught that the first night.
IT is a case of what she thinks I need healing from and what I am trying to work on in my life right now.
I have done nothing but think about it since I posted and you answered.
I have the booklet and I am going to spend time this weekend going all the way through the exercises to the end to see what is intended.
I am at this point just sticking my toe in.. IF it really looks like it is going to get too invasive I will pull out. Before I go any further in. I just do not want another TWI experience, even if it is not so invasive.. Even though my time in was not as horrific as others I came away from it with some real hurts .. IT took me along time to realize God loved me whether I was in TWI or some where else.. and a long to to get over the guilt of leaving our TWIG.
That first lesson DVD for this class though is just creepy... I thought it so reminded me of TWI .. which is why I posted on here.
WG I really can not thank you enough for all your input. Also Once I review it all I think I will post what I see on here just in case anyone else has questions about it.
It is their newest class since the other two, "the purpose driven life" and "the purpose driven church".
They encourage you to go threw it a t the same time as the class but I am not a lamb to be led to the slaughter anymore.
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waterbuffalo
Leafytwiglet, you sound like you're in a good place to evaluate what they're planning to "do to" you. Sorry. I meant "for" you. LOL!!! And, I'll bet they think they're doing something new.
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Watered Garden
For a long time I doubted myself. I thought I was being 'too sensitive" or "too defensive." 'Pride' was another bugaboo.
However, this last church plant, with a young (to me) minister who seemed to be interested most of all in going out to eat on the church's dime at least twice a day and then was promulgating a doctrine I found less than wholesome, really opened my eyes. Young, ambitious pastor meets charismatic lightning rod of a "leader" who preaches with confidence and occasional profanity and frequent downright meanness, a doctrine which is so "thus saith the Lord" that he will condemn to hellfire anyone who disagrees; "the sin is in questioning"; something supposedly new, exciting and different with a new large following; I saw in my mind's eye the young man who was our last BL, who worshipped the ground LCM put his size 12's on.
When this guy came over to our house after we e-mailed a letter announcing our departure, he was loud, defensive, and politely belligerent; he and his master both believe that women MUST be silent in the church, yet I was the one doing most of the explanation of our differences (Mr. Garden was smiling hugely in approval) and it didn't matter what I said I was wrong; even to say that I didn't believe God would do worse for His children than an earthly father would for his was blasphemy. I am comparing God to man! Geez, five years of seminary and you never heard of condescensio?
Trust your gut; if your skin crawls, your stomach clenches, and you shrink from attending; RUN!
My response nowadays to religious people who try to drag me into false doctrines and weird classes is this: "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO COME BETWEEN ME AND MY HEAVENLY FATHER!"
WG
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Ham
hmmm. a lighting "rod".. to scare these spooks away..
he's been up for a week..
Waysider, maybe you could finish the reference..
sometimes I think.. I'd rather have the "false drugs"..
powerful gasoline, and a clean windshield can only get one only so far..
if they could only rid us of the drunk drivers here..
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waysider
"He's been up for a week but he's coming down fast!"
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Watered Garden
A lightning rod attracts lightning and diffuses it. The man I referred to attracts criticism, talk, and controversy and diffuses it. That is why I used the reference to a lightning rod. They used to put them on top of houses in the Midwest in hopes of saving themselves from a lightning strike. Probably caused more of them, actually.
WG
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waterbuffalo
Leafytwiglet,
All kidding aside, how close are you to your friend? I was just a bit concerned b/c I made a friend once who ran fellowships and later discovered she really was just a "friend." In other words, she saw me as a potential contributor to her and her hub's group. My husband did eventually start going to their "church" and we later contributed quite a bit to their organization. They were doing "inner healing" which turned out to be just them getting people to tell their deepest darkest secrets after lying on the floor and listening to praise music over the course of several month and later years.
I feel very foolish even talking about it now and sincerely hope this isn't the same type of thing that your friend or "friend" is doing.
Peace!
wb
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Watered Garden
"I was wrong; even to say that I didn't believe God would do worse for His children than an earthly father would for his was blasphemy. I am comparing God to man! Geez, five years of seminary and you never heard of condescensio?"
Come to think of it, and of course I NEVER think of these things when I need to, Jesus did the same thing: He asked if your child asks for a fish will you give him a scorpion, or if he asks for bread will you give him a stone? And I forget the exact book, chapter and verse, but He goes on to say that if you as earthly father will give good things to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give you His children?
Gosh, I hope this young man gets a chance to tell Jesus HE was wrong? Uh-huh, how's THAT workin' for ya?
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Watered Garden
A lot of times with books like the Rick Warren stuff, the literature itself can be helpful, or at least harmless. It's what people do with it that is dangerous. Maybe this book genuinely seeks to assist those who are hurting. But in the wrong hands, which is where this crap usually ends up, it can be a spear to puncture your heart.
The first church plant we were involved with, from which emerged the second church plant that I mentioned above, had small groups and Mr. Garden and I were to be group leaders; in fact, we took over the original pastor's small group when he went to jail, and we had this very organized criteria that the associate pastor, who became the pastor of the second church plant, and selected. It was based on TPDL. It was very structured and boring as hell. Therefore, Mr. Garden simply abandoned it and starting teaching Bible. Everybody loved it.
Then, of course, came the second church plant, small groups were disbanded, and when the young pastor decided to have other small groups we weren't asked to be leaders, which was lovely, because we were already disenchanted and subsequently left.
I know this is somewhat confusing; we were in a church plant that failed due to the pastor getting busted. The pastor of the subsequent church plant was the associate pastor of the first church plant.
WG
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leafytwiglet
WB I am thinking this may be the true test of our friendship. But one of the many lessons I have learned thru the years is most people who are friends are really just "friends" IT is the rare person who comes into your life and really is interested and concerned for you.. and would go out of their way to help you. I have had several true friends and have a couple of them that I see every day. I am hoping that her walk as a Christian is bigger than that.
So if this should turn out badly I will be okay
WG. IT makes perfect sense.. and well I find it interesting that people really just want to learn about God's word and prefer studying it to some ones take on it all. The trouble is it is difficult to find that. I firmly believe that is the biggest reason most folks got involved with TWI in the first place, they thought they were really going to learn to read and understand the bible. VP hid his true agenda behind lots of bible verses.
I still wish TWI had actually been what it sold itself as being. Now that I am older I realize how unrealistic that would be, But I still wish it.
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Watered Garden
When I signed the green card, I told my boss: "I know what the Methodists say about God. I know what the Catholics say about God. I'm taking this class to find out what God has to say about Himself.'
I wish it had all been so simple.
WG
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Watered Garden
Leafy, you're gonna let us know how this turns out, I hope?
WG
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