I have tuned my bs antennae to check whether someone has a "dog in the race." Anytime someone attempts to censor what I should be reading, doing, etc., my radar goes up.
Imagining critical thinking skills as a muscle helps to keep me motivated to use them on a regular basis. Two practices I can think of right off the bat - that are important to maintaining/developing proficiency are:
1. considering/analyzing another viewpoint
2. becoming familiar with the subject
Whether it's brainstorming to resolve a technical issue at work or just trying to understand something in a political debate – I find it helpful to examine the reasons/angles of a differing viewpoint and familiarizing myself with the essential details regarding the core elements of the subject at hand.
I'm not necessarily looking for a hole in someone's logic or to win a debate – I guess it also winds up being another way of me getting familiar with the subject – by looking at it from another's perspective. Ya never know – they might have a valid point or two.. uhm I guess it's also good to have some humility & honesty as well, in these exercises.
Examining TWI materials using their own "research" methods and still finding errors was the first step for me. Not assuming that something is correct (or true) and trying to shoehorn the evidence into the predetermined path was another.
Am hoping that this thread will prove useful to those who are newly out or still recovering.
Please keep ideas flowing.
Right now, for me, at this stage having a non-Christian friend who is very intelligent and quick thinking is helping my critical thinking skills. My friend is respectful of my beliefs but his pithy summations of something I say make me cast around in my mind to think, "Why did I say/think that? Iron sharpens iron.
This wouldn't have helped me at all when I first got out; I would (and did) just trot out the "party line." I needed to see the double standards of TWI first. (Thanks to all at the Cafe!!)
Interesting that Christian friends don't bother to challenge anything, assuming that I believe the same as them; or they just give me an odd or pitying look. They never ask why I might believe something different from them and they don't want to explore their own beliefs. It's that wishy-washy leave-'em-alone attitude that caused me to receive PFAL with such interest.
I believe all religious beliefs require a suspension of critical thought to a certain extent. None of them can really, really, really be explained logically.
I agree, but there is a difference between choosing to believe something illogical, improbable or impossible to prove and browbeating others into believing it too.
I believe all religious beliefs require a suspension of critical thought to a certain extent. None of them can really, really, really be explained logically.
Really? I think that Christianity can be reasoned out as a logical worldview that takes a little faith. . . .and which one doesn't? And unless you believe you hold complete knowledge of truth your above quote is quite a statement to make.
Even atheism takes some faith.
I would be a fool to base my entire worldview on faith without reason or evidence. . . .or critical thinking. . . . . it would be meaningless. . . . as I would not even understand why I believe as I do. . . . I seem to recall I did that once before. . . .
Really? I think that Christianity can be reasoned out as a logical worldview that takes a little faith. . . .and which one doesn't? And unless you believe you hold complete knowledge of truth your above quote is quite a statement to make.
Even atheism takes some faith.
I would be a fool to base my entire worldview on faith without reason or evidence. . . .or critical thinking. . . . . it would be meaningless. . . . as I would not even understand why I believe as I do. . . . I seem to recall I did that once before. . . .
Fool me once. . . . .
Ya, i think that religious belief should go something like this, "From what i've seen and what makes sense, this is probably what's true and i'm sticking to it."
Okay, this is not about whether or not Christianity is true or not, whether it is a valid world-view or not.
It's quite simply about how we can regain control of our own critical thinking skills. You know, the sort of thing that might make you look at the TV and think that the presenter was talking rubbish; the ad was over-selling; or even, whether it was safe to cross the road.
What helps you evaluate ... anything? (Especially your TWI beliefs.
Okay, this is not about whether or not Christianity is true or not, whether it is a valid world-view or not.
It's quite simply about how we can regain control of our own critical thinking skills. You know, the sort of thing that might make you look at the TV and think that the presenter was talking rubbish; the ad was over-selling; or even, whether it was safe to cross the road.
What helps you evaluate ... anything? (Especially your TWI beliefs.
Not "what are you evaluating"!
Logic. . . . which is the study or rules of correct thinking . . . . principles that guide rational argument or discussion. That is a good place to start.
I think what helped me the most was just being able to quietly think through the last three years we were involved and the illogical demands made on us. What kind of organization demands parents abandon or beat their child half to death? What college or university training does the kinds of things FWC did to us?
And honestly, going to several churches helped me, too, especially with my issues with child care. One church in particular impressed me with the tenderness and love they extended toward little ones. Over three hundred members, even more attendees, and not a wooden spoon in sight!
I was a pretty smart cookie at one time in my life, I think that God is helping me regenerate some of that.
Really? I think that Christianity can be reasoned out as a logical worldview that takes a little faith. . . .and which one doesn't? And unless you believe you hold complete knowledge of truth your above quote is quite a statement to make.
Faith, by definition, is belief in something that cannot be proved, so don't shoot the messenger.
I am only using the "ground rules" (a system of assumptions and presumptions) of reason and logic. They're not my rules. The problem with the protestant belief system is that it is based on reason and rationalism, which is ironic, if you think about it. On the other hand, the Catholic religion does not not hold itself to the same standard because the Catholic faith is only loosely based on the book. That's actually pretty smart. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions that are book based. However, that in and of itself is not a guarantor of truth.
The only way reason and rationalism (pretty much the same thing) can be used to work through protestant beliefs is by establishing a set of ground rules. Call them the basic tenants of faith. Regardless of what we've been told, these tenants are actually pretty arbitrary. However, the assumptions are put into place and one pushes off from those assumptions.
TWI added and subtracted from those assumptions things such as inerrancy, mathematical precision, figures of speech, and context.
Regardless of the system of belief, if you strip away the assumptions, then the outcomes have no constraints as assumptions, by definition, are limiters.
In the study and application of critical thinking, the real work is deciding which assumptions are there for a good reason, and which are not.
A guy started coming to my fellowship once, who was appalled at seeing a mother take a wooden spoon to her kids. One day, he picked up a wooden spoon at a garage sale across the street from her house, and chased her up and down the driveway, hitting her with it, asking how she liked it. He, of course, had much more common sense than the rest of the way indoctrinated group.
That and just a cursory reading through of a basic list of "logical fallacies" was enough for me to put my whole Christian belief system up for a little more scrutiny.
I am only using the "ground rules" (a system of assumptions and presumptions) of reason and logic. They're not my rules. The problem with the protestant belief system is that it is based on reason and rationalism, which is ironic, if you think about it. On the other hand, the Catholic religion does not not hold itself to the same standard because the Catholic faith is only loosely based on the book. That's actually pretty smart. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions that are book based. However, that in and of itself is not a guarantor of truth.
The only way reason and rationalism (pretty much the same thing) can be used to work through protestant beliefs is by establishing a set of ground rules. Call them the basic tenants of faith. Regardless of what we've been told, these tenants are actually pretty arbitrary. However, the assumptions are put into place and one pushes off from those assumptions.
TWI added and subtracted from those assumptions things such as inerrancy, mathematical precision, figures of speech, and context.
Regardless of the system of belief, if you strip away the assumptions, then the outcomes have no constraints as assumptions, by definition, are limiters.
In the study and application of critical thinking, the real work is deciding which assumptions are there for a good reason, and which are not.
I don't think Twinky wants us to argue, so I will just add. . . . I absolutely agree with you that the real work comes in deciding which things are are reasonable and which are not. . . . we do this in many areas of our lives. Using the rules of logic one can come to a reasonable conclusion with evidence on which to base the Christian faith. Meaning there is enough evidence provided to deduce a worldview. Not an absolute proof, but all worldviews require some faith.
Faith without reason or logic is ridiculous. . . .to suspend one's critical thinking in the embracing of faith alone leaves open the possibility of falling into the same trap we did before.
People defend this application all the time in Apologetics. . . . a reasonable faith based on evidence and deductive reasoning. Critical thinking! To say people suspend critical thinking skills to embrace faith is to short change some very bright people who actually do reason out and defend this stuff.
I don't count myself among them(bright people) but, I don't embrace Christianity because I don't think. . . . it is actually quite the opposite.
I probably think too much.
Ooops to add: What I find troubling is that we as ex-cultist come at this argument from an aberrant perspective and that does shape our understanding and reasoning. In my opinion, we should strip ourselves of all preconceived notions and if interested come at it from the logical and skeptical POV but, give it objective serious consideration. Which may require some effort and time. It is a painful process, but if you feel that tug or pull to examine your faith. . . it is not such a bad thing to do.
... and just a cursory reading through of a basic list of "logical fallacies" ....
Always good to be aware of these... In fact awareness is one of the keys to being critical, I mean thinking critically.. Or maybe it's being critical when thinking.. Umm.. how about thinking critically of the awareness.
Yes, I find the most helpful is to always be open!! Eeewwww.. That thing we were so told not to do.. You know, debilz might try and infilitrate your mind!! How scawry!
But needless to say, once we realize the fallacy of our own minds. Whether they be hooked from a logical fallacies or bad data in der computah brain, we need to realize it all could be bad data even now! Sometimes that can be a scary thought.. Yeah, you know, dem debil spitz might be in der and fooling you! Hahaha! Or more honestly, it comes with having limited knowledge and understanding of everything in the whole darn world..
And you know what.. NO ONE has all that der information!! Not even GOOGLE! lol.. Oh.. wait.. I believe God does.. Well, despite my belief... Even the Christian scriptures promote such an open mind. PROVE ALL THINGS... AND THEY SEARCHED - WHETHER THOSE THINGS PAUL SAID WERE SO... WE KNOW ONLY IN PART... SEE THROUGH A DARK FOGGY GLASS... PROVE ME NOW, SAID GOD! PROVE IT.. PROVE IT.. AND REAPPROVE IT!!
The thing I find most important in all that again, not repeating it all, is that I do it again.. And Again.. And again.. And again.. And again.. and again.. Yes, that der same subject again.. And again..
Every day our brains are absorbing more information. And you can't have too much information, but the more one ascertains the better one can deduce. But deduction skills are still worthless if you don't allow openess to re-look from all perspectives available everything again.. And when someone says something that goes at grain with what your thoughts are. Perfect!! Opportunity to reavaluate and find out their perspective!! Look through their eyes. Find out why and where.. No one has faith or believes in something for no reason.
To try and illustrate.. When you measure something.. Say something that is 1 meter long.. How do you know that ruler is accurate? Test it.. But what happens if that ruler shrank! It needs retested. In fact most measuring tools used today have to be recertified every year to assure they are STILL accurate.. Things change. Our minds change. Be open to re-evaluate even those things proven in the past. Who knows whether that which was used to prove it in the past was really an uncertified fallacy posing as truth! You don't.. Or at least, you can't prove it without using some other subjective/relative piece of knowledge..
But then again.. Maybe I'm just nuts and too critical of my thinking... Time to re-evaluate!
Okay, this is not about whether or not Christianity is true or not, whether it is a valid world-view or not.
It's quite simply about how we can regain control of our own critical thinking skills. You know, the sort of thing that might make you look at the TV and think that the presenter was talking rubbish; the ad was over-selling; or even, whether it was safe to cross the road.
What helps you evaluate ... anything? (Especially your TWI beliefs.
Not "what are you evaluating"!
What helped me and I was still in TWI as a Military Wow was working in the Army (it took me away from TWI obligations
to field exercises and even guard duty and back to hanging out more with "essencially normal people"maybe watching some tv or whatever and NOT talking BIBLE(for Christ sakes and I mean that!)
also the whole "word scramble thing"UGH what does this mean in greek (BS)who cares,I got a taste of freedom and LOVED
it.
Now after getting out that was the easy part,what took YEARS was getting it out of my head! In my case I choose
Here are ten signs that you have been indoctrinated or Brainwashed. One does not have to exhibit all ten, just a few will suffice.
1.) CHARISMATIC LEADERSHIP - the unquestioned obedience and submission to the claimed authority, divine appointment, and knowledge of a central leader or group of leaders who demand such obedience to prove the individual's faith, motives, integrity and trustworthiness.
2.) TOTALITARIAN WORLD VIEW - a "we-versus-they" view of the outside world designed to enhance the group's identity, goals, and welfare at the expense of the individual. Group members are the heroic "good guys", and outsiders are the villainous "bad guys."
3.) ELITISM - benefits of belonging are unobtainable to outsiders but available to the loyal only through association with the group - from personal empowerment and spiritual highs to fulfillment and ultimate salvation. The group views itself as the only one with "the truth" and lives accordingly.
4.) DECEPTION - the group's free usage of dishonesty, falsehoods and questionable claims in both it's indoctrination of new members and it's rejection of "outsiders" who seem critical of the group. Any media and literature used may be characterized by deceptive and misleading claims.
5.) ALIENATION - the group's active encouragement of it's members to remain separate from those family, friends and parts of society opposed to group ideals. The outside world is viewed as sinful, ignorant, Satanic and must be fully withdrawn from - thus reinforcing the group's control.
6.) FATIGUE - the deprivation of members of sleep, needed rest times and free time with the insistence that long hours of work and meetings are a means of demonstrating true faith, real dedication to a cause, or determination to succeed. The effects of mental fatigue impair the individual's ability to critically think or even rationally function, leaving them open to manipulation.
7.) FEAR - the usage of continuously overemphasized phobias (irrational fears) to control members (some of these being programmed fears of hell, fear of the government, fear of certain objects, fear of business loss, fear of the "world order", fear of displeasing God and others, fear of the devil, fear of other races, fear of displeasing the group's leaders and mentors and fear of losing close ties to the group)
8.) EXPLOITATION - a broad trait ranging from pressure to give all of one's wealth and time to the group to the usage of guilt, secrecy and emotional manipulation to maintain control: the threat of expulsion is a particularly powerful leverage of control, as is verbal, sexual and even physical violence.
9.) CHANGE IN DIET - under nourishment as well as unhealthy nutrition used to keep members mentally dulled and thereby less able to engage in independent thinking - the greatest enemy of destructive cult groups. Mind-altering toxins, drugs and chemicals are used in some foods sometimes in deliberate fashion.
10.) LACK OF PRIVACY - individuals are not allowed moments of private solitude or contemplation which may lead to independent thought: frequently, group members live and function in society together, and monitor each other closely (particularly in family situations) to ensure conformity to the group's proscribed lifestyle.
These ten traits are all designed to accomplish one central cult goal: indoctrination into the group's belief system with a simultaneous shutdown of independent thought. The nature and precise details of that belief system will differ sharply from group to cause to philosophy to study group, but the human dynamics involved are always the same. When you find a group of warm, friendly people who have all the answers, whose group claims to speak for God or possess "true enlightenment" exclusively and encourages you to stop thinking for yourself, you have found a destructive cult - no matter what the label, exterior reputation or collection of testimonies would say otherwise.
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Twinky
Loss or dulling of critical thinking skills is a recurrent theme in a number of threads. And in reading post-cult self-help type of material, it’s apparently widespread among cult survivors. The cul
Bishop
I don't think God being good and him prohibiting us from fully utilizing the mind that he gave us is compatible.
leafytwiglet
Hmm good question Twinky. well for me it took a long time and it was a step by step process... I guess if I had actually known I needed to wowrk on it it would have been faster.. but a couple things
Tzaia
I have tuned my bs antennae to check whether someone has a "dog in the race." Anytime someone attempts to censor what I should be reading, doing, etc., my radar goes up.
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Ham
What helped me.. I stayed away from offshoot after exiting the way, for about a year or so..
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T-Bone
Imagining critical thinking skills as a muscle helps to keep me motivated to use them on a regular basis. Two practices I can think of right off the bat - that are important to maintaining/developing proficiency are:
1. considering/analyzing another viewpoint
2. becoming familiar with the subject
Whether it's brainstorming to resolve a technical issue at work or just trying to understand something in a political debate – I find it helpful to examine the reasons/angles of a differing viewpoint and familiarizing myself with the essential details regarding the core elements of the subject at hand.
I'm not necessarily looking for a hole in someone's logic or to win a debate – I guess it also winds up being another way of me getting familiar with the subject – by looking at it from another's perspective. Ya never know – they might have a valid point or two.. uhm I guess it's also good to have some humility & honesty as well, in these exercises.
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waysider
I think it helped me more to first see VP's phony lifestyle exposed.
Once I accepted that for what it was, his credibility was worthless to me.
With his credibility in tatters, it was easy to start examining the various doctrinal matters in a more open manner.
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Oakspear
Examining TWI materials using their own "research" methods and still finding errors was the first step for me. Not assuming that something is correct (or true) and trying to shoehorn the evidence into the predetermined path was another.
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Twinky
Am hoping that this thread will prove useful to those who are newly out or still recovering.
Please keep ideas flowing.
Right now, for me, at this stage having a non-Christian friend who is very intelligent and quick thinking is helping my critical thinking skills. My friend is respectful of my beliefs but his pithy summations of something I say make me cast around in my mind to think, "Why did I say/think that? Iron sharpens iron.
This wouldn't have helped me at all when I first got out; I would (and did) just trot out the "party line." I needed to see the double standards of TWI first. (Thanks to all at the Cafe!!)
Interesting that Christian friends don't bother to challenge anything, assuming that I believe the same as them; or they just give me an odd or pitying look. They never ask why I might believe something different from them and they don't want to explore their own beliefs. It's that wishy-washy leave-'em-alone attitude that caused me to receive PFAL with such interest.
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Tzaia
I believe all religious beliefs require a suspension of critical thought to a certain extent. None of them can really, really, really be explained logically.
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Oakspear
I agree, but there is a difference between choosing to believe something illogical, improbable or impossible to prove and browbeating others into believing it too.
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geisha779
Really? I think that Christianity can be reasoned out as a logical worldview that takes a little faith. . . .and which one doesn't? And unless you believe you hold complete knowledge of truth your above quote is quite a statement to make.
Even atheism takes some faith.
I would be a fool to base my entire worldview on faith without reason or evidence. . . .or critical thinking. . . . . it would be meaningless. . . . as I would not even understand why I believe as I do. . . . I seem to recall I did that once before. . . .
Fool me once. . . . .
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Bishop
Ya, i think that religious belief should go something like this, "From what i've seen and what makes sense, this is probably what's true and i'm sticking to it."
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Twinky
Okay, this is not about whether or not Christianity is true or not, whether it is a valid world-view or not.
It's quite simply about how we can regain control of our own critical thinking skills. You know, the sort of thing that might make you look at the TV and think that the presenter was talking rubbish; the ad was over-selling; or even, whether it was safe to cross the road.
What helps you evaluate ... anything? (Especially your TWI beliefs.
Not "what are you evaluating"!
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geisha779
Logic. . . . which is the study or rules of correct thinking . . . . principles that guide rational argument or discussion. That is a good place to start.
Especially when evaluating a philosophy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
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Bramble
I start at a very simple place --is obedience to an authority involved? Who and Why? Does someone else benefit at my expense of labor, sweat etc?
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Watered Garden
I think what helped me the most was just being able to quietly think through the last three years we were involved and the illogical demands made on us. What kind of organization demands parents abandon or beat their child half to death? What college or university training does the kinds of things FWC did to us?
And honestly, going to several churches helped me, too, especially with my issues with child care. One church in particular impressed me with the tenderness and love they extended toward little ones. Over three hundred members, even more attendees, and not a wooden spoon in sight!
I was a pretty smart cookie at one time in my life, I think that God is helping me regenerate some of that.
WG
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Tzaia
Faith, by definition, is belief in something that cannot be proved, so don't shoot the messenger.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith #2
I am only using the "ground rules" (a system of assumptions and presumptions) of reason and logic. They're not my rules. The problem with the protestant belief system is that it is based on reason and rationalism, which is ironic, if you think about it. On the other hand, the Catholic religion does not not hold itself to the same standard because the Catholic faith is only loosely based on the book. That's actually pretty smart. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions that are book based. However, that in and of itself is not a guarantor of truth.
The only way reason and rationalism (pretty much the same thing) can be used to work through protestant beliefs is by establishing a set of ground rules. Call them the basic tenants of faith. Regardless of what we've been told, these tenants are actually pretty arbitrary. However, the assumptions are put into place and one pushes off from those assumptions.
TWI added and subtracted from those assumptions things such as inerrancy, mathematical precision, figures of speech, and context.
Regardless of the system of belief, if you strip away the assumptions, then the outcomes have no constraints as assumptions, by definition, are limiters.
In the study and application of critical thinking, the real work is deciding which assumptions are there for a good reason, and which are not.
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hiway29
A guy started coming to my fellowship once, who was appalled at seeing a mother take a wooden spoon to her kids. One day, he picked up a wooden spoon at a garage sale across the street from her house, and chased her up and down the driveway, hitting her with it, asking how she liked it. He, of course, had much more common sense than the rest of the way indoctrinated group.
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George Aar
I've found this site to be very helpful in keeping my thinking from straying too far into the "woo-woo" end of the spectrum:
http://skepdic.com/
That and just a cursory reading through of a basic list of "logical fallacies" was enough for me to put my whole Christian belief system up for a little more scrutiny.
Uh, it didn't fare so well. YMMV...
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geisha779
I don't think Twinky wants us to argue, so I will just add. . . . I absolutely agree with you that the real work comes in deciding which things are are reasonable and which are not. . . . we do this in many areas of our lives. Using the rules of logic one can come to a reasonable conclusion with evidence on which to base the Christian faith. Meaning there is enough evidence provided to deduce a worldview. Not an absolute proof, but all worldviews require some faith.
Faith without reason or logic is ridiculous. . . .to suspend one's critical thinking in the embracing of faith alone leaves open the possibility of falling into the same trap we did before.
People defend this application all the time in Apologetics. . . . a reasonable faith based on evidence and deductive reasoning. Critical thinking! To say people suspend critical thinking skills to embrace faith is to short change some very bright people who actually do reason out and defend this stuff.
I don't count myself among them(bright people) but, I don't embrace Christianity because I don't think. . . . it is actually quite the opposite.
I probably think too much.
Ooops to add: What I find troubling is that we as ex-cultist come at this argument from an aberrant perspective and that does shape our understanding and reasoning. In my opinion, we should strip ourselves of all preconceived notions and if interested come at it from the logical and skeptical POV but, give it objective serious consideration. Which may require some effort and time. It is a painful process, but if you feel that tug or pull to examine your faith. . . it is not such a bad thing to do.
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TrustAndObey
I "think".. Which really is both the problem and the solution.. But critical either way!
Does that answer the question?
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TrustAndObey
Always good to be aware of these... In fact awareness is one of the keys to being critical, I mean thinking critically.. Or maybe it's being critical when thinking.. Umm.. how about thinking critically of the awareness.
Yes, I find the most helpful is to always be open!! Eeewwww.. That thing we were so told not to do.. You know, debilz might try and infilitrate your mind!! How scawry!
But needless to say, once we realize the fallacy of our own minds. Whether they be hooked from a logical fallacies or bad data in der computah brain, we need to realize it all could be bad data even now! Sometimes that can be a scary thought.. Yeah, you know, dem debil spitz might be in der and fooling you! Hahaha! Or more honestly, it comes with having limited knowledge and understanding of everything in the whole darn world..
And you know what.. NO ONE has all that der information!! Not even GOOGLE! lol.. Oh.. wait.. I believe God does.. Well, despite my belief... Even the Christian scriptures promote such an open mind. PROVE ALL THINGS... AND THEY SEARCHED - WHETHER THOSE THINGS PAUL SAID WERE SO... WE KNOW ONLY IN PART... SEE THROUGH A DARK FOGGY GLASS... PROVE ME NOW, SAID GOD! PROVE IT.. PROVE IT.. AND REAPPROVE IT!!
The thing I find most important in all that again, not repeating it all, is that I do it again.. And Again.. And again.. And again.. And again.. and again.. Yes, that der same subject again.. And again..
Every day our brains are absorbing more information. And you can't have too much information, but the more one ascertains the better one can deduce. But deduction skills are still worthless if you don't allow openess to re-look from all perspectives available everything again.. And when someone says something that goes at grain with what your thoughts are. Perfect!! Opportunity to reavaluate and find out their perspective!! Look through their eyes. Find out why and where.. No one has faith or believes in something for no reason.
To try and illustrate.. When you measure something.. Say something that is 1 meter long.. How do you know that ruler is accurate? Test it.. But what happens if that ruler shrank! It needs retested. In fact most measuring tools used today have to be recertified every year to assure they are STILL accurate.. Things change. Our minds change. Be open to re-evaluate even those things proven in the past. Who knows whether that which was used to prove it in the past was really an uncertified fallacy posing as truth! You don't.. Or at least, you can't prove it without using some other subjective/relative piece of knowledge..
But then again.. Maybe I'm just nuts and too critical of my thinking... Time to re-evaluate!
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Bishop
I don't think God being good and him prohibiting us from fully utilizing the mind that he gave us is compatible.
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Ham
I think a lot of it isn't "renewing the mind" and such, but more from upbringing..
some of us were taught to think better (or worse)..
to this day, I carry lessons (mostly good) I learned from my parents..
I really doubt claims of change. At least now.. so many opinions, prejudices were taught in formative years..
and everyone is different.. maybe our differences are forced upon us..
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cheranne
What helped me and I was still in TWI as a Military Wow was working in the Army (it took me away from TWI obligations
to field exercises and even guard duty and back to hanging out more with "essencially normal people"maybe watching some tv or whatever and NOT talking BIBLE(for Christ sakes and I mean that!)
also the whole "word scramble thing"UGH what does this mean in greek (BS)who cares,I got a taste of freedom and LOVED
it.
Now after getting out that was the easy part,what took YEARS was getting it out of my head! In my case I choose
Therapy.
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cheranne
I found this today(maybe it'll help someone)
Here are ten signs that you have been indoctrinated or Brainwashed. One does not have to exhibit all ten, just a few will suffice.
1.) CHARISMATIC LEADERSHIP - the unquestioned obedience and submission to the claimed authority, divine appointment, and knowledge of a central leader or group of leaders who demand such obedience to prove the individual's faith, motives, integrity and trustworthiness.
2.) TOTALITARIAN WORLD VIEW - a "we-versus-they" view of the outside world designed to enhance the group's identity, goals, and welfare at the expense of the individual. Group members are the heroic "good guys", and outsiders are the villainous "bad guys."
3.) ELITISM - benefits of belonging are unobtainable to outsiders but available to the loyal only through association with the group - from personal empowerment and spiritual highs to fulfillment and ultimate salvation. The group views itself as the only one with "the truth" and lives accordingly.
4.) DECEPTION - the group's free usage of dishonesty, falsehoods and questionable claims in both it's indoctrination of new members and it's rejection of "outsiders" who seem critical of the group. Any media and literature used may be characterized by deceptive and misleading claims.
5.) ALIENATION - the group's active encouragement of it's members to remain separate from those family, friends and parts of society opposed to group ideals. The outside world is viewed as sinful, ignorant, Satanic and must be fully withdrawn from - thus reinforcing the group's control.
6.) FATIGUE - the deprivation of members of sleep, needed rest times and free time with the insistence that long hours of work and meetings are a means of demonstrating true faith, real dedication to a cause, or determination to succeed. The effects of mental fatigue impair the individual's ability to critically think or even rationally function, leaving them open to manipulation.
7.) FEAR - the usage of continuously overemphasized phobias (irrational fears) to control members (some of these being programmed fears of hell, fear of the government, fear of certain objects, fear of business loss, fear of the "world order", fear of displeasing God and others, fear of the devil, fear of other races, fear of displeasing the group's leaders and mentors and fear of losing close ties to the group)
8.) EXPLOITATION - a broad trait ranging from pressure to give all of one's wealth and time to the group to the usage of guilt, secrecy and emotional manipulation to maintain control: the threat of expulsion is a particularly powerful leverage of control, as is verbal, sexual and even physical violence.
9.) CHANGE IN DIET - under nourishment as well as unhealthy nutrition used to keep members mentally dulled and thereby less able to engage in independent thinking - the greatest enemy of destructive cult groups. Mind-altering toxins, drugs and chemicals are used in some foods sometimes in deliberate fashion.
10.) LACK OF PRIVACY - individuals are not allowed moments of private solitude or contemplation which may lead to independent thought: frequently, group members live and function in society together, and monitor each other closely (particularly in family situations) to ensure conformity to the group's proscribed lifestyle.
These ten traits are all designed to accomplish one central cult goal: indoctrination into the group's belief system with a simultaneous shutdown of independent thought. The nature and precise details of that belief system will differ sharply from group to cause to philosophy to study group, but the human dynamics involved are always the same. When you find a group of warm, friendly people who have all the answers, whose group claims to speak for God or possess "true enlightenment" exclusively and encourages you to stop thinking for yourself, you have found a destructive cult - no matter what the label, exterior reputation or collection of testimonies would say otherwise.
For more information here is that website address: http://www.spiritwatch.org/mincon10.htm
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