. . . None of you guys know what you're talking about. Most U.S. believers know the majority of faithful grads are outside the U.S.
Far as I know international numbers far exceed domestic.
I believe this is a trend for Christianity in general. It's only natural that domestic twi numbers have and will drop. The demographics have simply shifted.
Far as I know international numbers far exceed domestic.
I believe this is a trend for Christianity in general. It's only natural that domestic twi numbers have and will drop. The demographics have simply shifted.
Yes international numbers exceed national. I would argue about the "natural" tendency for the future. There is so much conjecture here. Numbers have steadily rose in recent years (post 2004).
The criteria for country coord. are very specific yet I do not know all of them. All I know is that much consideration is given. Nobody who just starts up a fellowship in a country and requests to be named a country coor. is given that opportunity to steward the resources a established country with leadership is given. Fact.
Oh and Venezuala does have a country coord. They have Way Corps in fact. Fact
I don't know how many there are now, but I was surprised when I looked at a Google satellite image of the property. There were not many cars there and the grounds looked very deserted (though still well maintained). I never saw the blue painted basketball court before, east of the Jordan bridge. When did that go in?
all the cars are gone. everybody gets around grounds now on segways. hahahaha Basketball court east of the jordan, man you must have left some time ago. Why not come around for a service some time?
all the cars are gone. everybody gets around grounds now on segways. hahahaha Basketball court east of the jordan, man you must have left some time ago. Why not come around for a service some time?
You should mention the soccer nets have been taken out . . . but mention ultimate frisbee, they will come . . .
Yes international numbers exceed national. I would argue about the "natural" tendency for the future. There is so much conjecture here. Numbers have steadily rose in recent years (post 2004).
Really? Steadily risen? By how much? Does TWI publish this information? I don't see it on their website. After all, they must know at least how many persons send "abundant sharings" through their household fellowships, so that would have to be the minimum number of "active followers".
How much money is funnelled into HQ from the internationals? If they are indeed taking a "share" of what's given.. isn't that kinda like missionary work being practised in reverse?
I can't see TWI supporting the efforts of operations on foreign soil unless there is some sort of financial motivation. They are, after all, in the business of generating cash flow.
I can't see TWI supporting the efforts of operations on foreign soil unless there is some sort of financial motivation. They are, after all, in the business of generating cash flow.
I'm just sayin'-----
From my knowledge and experience, international countries do NOT send a portion of their abs to twi hq. In fact, it runs at cross-purposes with bylaws and charters to do so (as I understand it).
BUT.....all bookstore purchases (books, tapes, way mag, weekly tapes, etc) from twi ample financial motivation to support international outreach. This financial incentive reaches to those who register for advanced classes, advanced class specials, corps tuition, etc. Any one-time (yearly) gifts or offerings to twi could be written off the books of The Way of Ireland (for example).
all the cars are gone. everybody gets around grounds now on segways. hahahaha Basketball court east of the jordan, man you must have left some time ago. Why not come around for a service some time?
Why not? The first reason that comes to my mind as to why I wouldn't want to come there is because the last time I tried to come there to straighten out the way's insistence that my son and I were homosexuals and to be thrown out on the streets after putting our all into the family corps, I was told by the trunk coordinator that there were "armed guards with photos of my son and me and we were most definitely not welcome at the way."
I've just never had a desire to go back there ever since...
I can't say what "official numbers are" but I can say that they were having a REAL problem staffing HQ. The first year this became an issue during placements, there were a series of meetings held to generate ideas to face this problem. Basically, the Prez Cab was the lightning rod and took the blame from RFR for not promoting Staff properly. Nevermind that all of the Cabinet only have oversight for their little fiefdom in the cornfields. No direct control over hiring, or promotion, or human resources! I digress.
The Prez Cab were then asked for their ideas how to remedy the problem. There were a lot of different ideas from the Cabinet, with the more obvious ones, such as addressing the glaring lack of incentives to serve on Staff, receiving censure and subsequent reproof sessions in the days to come because they were too concerned with carnal matters. In the end some crappy DVD was made by a sub-committee and sent out to the fellowships, that was designed to showcase the BENEFITS of being on Staff. The obvious slant was people on the field were too deceived, too concerned with worldly matters, or too stupid to know all the spiritual blessings that awaited them working 46+ hours for peanuts and living in some crappy modular home, or worse yet, in some ultra crappy dorm. The purpose was to inspire them with all the benefits the testimonials on the DVD were to point out. They had current Staff members interviewed. Only select Staff, of course, because there is plenty of discontent around that place - and that is no secret.
To me this is indicative of plummeting numbers! (and lack of interest for getting systematically screwed by the BOD.) Haven't they ever understood that the laborer is worth of his hire?
OldSkool, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to start a new thread with your last post. Since the "current numbers" question comes up fairly often, some people might not read this thread and might miss your informative post. I think your recent, firsthand information about the HQ staff shortage is significant and shouldn't get buried here.
OldSkool, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to start a new thread with your last post. Since the "current numbers" question comes up fairly often, some people might not read this thread and might miss your informative post. I think your recent, firsthand information about the HQ staff shortage is significant and shouldn't get buried here.
Yes international numbers exceed national. I would argue about the "natural" tendency for the future. There is so much conjecture here. Numbers have steadily rose in recent years (post 2004).
Interesting to look at cause and effect here. Internationally HQ does not exert the same command and control tactics as happens in the USA. And the numbers are greater.
As far as the "facts" about numbers steadily rising, yes there is the standard BS party line on that happening. What's interesting is to look at how they try and achieve that in policies. For example, no Limb coordinator is allowed to remove someone from the rolls without approval from the Trunk office. Region, Limb, Branch coordinators turn in numbers every month, including any increase or decrease in numbers. There is verbal counsel from as high as the BOD level that showing loss reflects badly on their leadership. So they fudge numbers, include people on rolls that attend one event in 2 years, try and talk people into remaining in contact even though they are leaving to keep them on the books.
Interesting to look at cause and effect here. Internationally HQ does not exert the same command and control tactics as happens in the USA. And the numbers are greater.
As far as the "facts" about numbers steadily rising, yes there is the standard BS party line on that happening. What's interesting is to look at how they try and achieve that in policies. For example, no Limb coordinator is allowed to remove someone from the rolls without approval from the Trunk office. Region, Limb, Branch coordinators turn in numbers every month, including any increase or decrease in numbers. There is verbal counsel from as high as the BOD level that showing loss reflects badly on their leadership. So they fudge numbers, include people on rolls that attend one event in 2 years, try and talk people into remaining in contact even though they are leaving to keep them on the books.
First you need to make the Decision to get the potato cannon.
Then the Desire will come.
You're funny! :wacko:
No, I've never shot a potato cannon, but I have shot a water balloon cannon and the notion of lobbing a few over Hwy 29 or Weirwille Rd. and landing them on the cult's president's head or the heads of the "safety dept" characters is kinda fun to imagine.
I do wonder sometimes if they've got someone to age-enhance those very old photos of us - else they wouldn't recognize us if we did decide to go slumming on over for a Sunday night snoozer service...
Actually TWI is very upfront in communicating to believers in the us about the International Outreach progress. Most people know how many countries are official (established leadership with trained country coordinators). Those flags do not represent just "Joe Grad" in a military base. The flags represent official countries that meet criteria. There are many other countries that are still "developing" that are not "official" but have strong fellowships. None of you guys know what you're talking about. Most U.S. believers know the majority of faithful grads are outside the U.S.
Is this "official" versus "developing" standard ('official' gets a flag in the west lobby, 'developing' with just military folks stationed there) a recent TWI policy? Please don't tell me it's always been that way.....then I would have to say, you "...don't know what you're talking about." I watched them eagerly pull an old S. Korean flag out of storage to display as soon as they heard a few military guys got stationed there and were getting together. Personally, I thought that was OK....why does it have to be 'official' trained folks there before they warrant a flag?
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Bolshevik
Far as I know international numbers far exceed domestic.
I believe this is a trend for Christianity in general. It's only natural that domestic twi numbers have and will drop. The demographics have simply shifted.
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Billy G
Yes international numbers exceed national. I would argue about the "natural" tendency for the future. There is so much conjecture here. Numbers have steadily rose in recent years (post 2004).
The criteria for country coord. are very specific yet I do not know all of them. All I know is that much consideration is given. Nobody who just starts up a fellowship in a country and requests to be named a country coor. is given that opportunity to steward the resources a established country with leadership is given. Fact.
Oh and Venezuala does have a country coord. They have Way Corps in fact. Fact
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Billy G
all the cars are gone. everybody gets around grounds now on segways. hahahaha Basketball court east of the jordan, man you must have left some time ago. Why not come around for a service some time?
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HAPe4me
uhhhhhyup, will certainly put that on my bucket list.
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waysider
Why?
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Bolshevik
You should mention the soccer nets have been taken out . . . but mention ultimate frisbee, they will come . . .
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Bolshevik
You mean internationally? (not in the U.S.)?
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Ham
As long as they let me come with my very ripe tomatos..
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Kevlar2000
Really? Steadily risen? By how much? Does TWI publish this information? I don't see it on their website. After all, they must know at least how many persons send "abundant sharings" through their household fellowships, so that would have to be the minimum number of "active followers".
Or is this just conjecture on your part?
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Ham
Hmmm. Now that makes me wonder..
How much money is funnelled into HQ from the internationals? If they are indeed taking a "share" of what's given.. isn't that kinda like missionary work being practised in reverse?
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waysider
Maybe it's just the skeptic in me.
I can't see TWI supporting the efforts of operations on foreign soil unless there is some sort of financial motivation. They are, after all, in the business of generating cash flow.
I'm just sayin'-----
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skyrider
From my knowledge and experience, international countries do NOT send a portion of their abs to twi hq. In fact, it runs at cross-purposes with bylaws and charters to do so (as I understand it).
BUT.....all bookstore purchases (books, tapes, way mag, weekly tapes, etc) from twi ample financial motivation to support international outreach. This financial incentive reaches to those who register for advanced classes, advanced class specials, corps tuition, etc. Any one-time (yearly) gifts or offerings to twi could be written off the books of The Way of Ireland (for example).
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bowtwi
Why not? The first reason that comes to my mind as to why I wouldn't want to come there is because the last time I tried to come there to straighten out the way's insistence that my son and I were homosexuals and to be thrown out on the streets after putting our all into the family corps, I was told by the trunk coordinator that there were "armed guards with photos of my son and me and we were most definitely not welcome at the way."
I've just never had a desire to go back there ever since...
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Bolshevik
Ever shot a potato cannon?
You need to apply lcm's 4-Ds to Discipleship.
First you need to make the Decision to get the potato cannon.
Then the Desire will come.
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waysider
In case you are unfamiliar with her story, the "decision", as you call it, was made for her when they unceremoniously expelled her from HQ.
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Bolshevik
that's what she said two posts ago.
does anyone really believe the threats can be upheld? Where are the "armed guards" now? I'd bet a lot of them joined spinoffs.
nowadays if they pulled that, getting back at them would be much easier. They have more to risk.
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OldSkool
I can't say what "official numbers are" but I can say that they were having a REAL problem staffing HQ. The first year this became an issue during placements, there were a series of meetings held to generate ideas to face this problem. Basically, the Prez Cab was the lightning rod and took the blame from RFR for not promoting Staff properly. Nevermind that all of the Cabinet only have oversight for their little fiefdom in the cornfields. No direct control over hiring, or promotion, or human resources! I digress.
The Prez Cab were then asked for their ideas how to remedy the problem. There were a lot of different ideas from the Cabinet, with the more obvious ones, such as addressing the glaring lack of incentives to serve on Staff, receiving censure and subsequent reproof sessions in the days to come because they were too concerned with carnal matters. In the end some crappy DVD was made by a sub-committee and sent out to the fellowships, that was designed to showcase the BENEFITS of being on Staff. The obvious slant was people on the field were too deceived, too concerned with worldly matters, or too stupid to know all the spiritual blessings that awaited them working 46+ hours for peanuts and living in some crappy modular home, or worse yet, in some ultra crappy dorm. The purpose was to inspire them with all the benefits the testimonials on the DVD were to point out. They had current Staff members interviewed. Only select Staff, of course, because there is plenty of discontent around that place - and that is no secret.
To me this is indicative of plummeting numbers! (and lack of interest for getting systematically screwed by the BOD.) Haven't they ever understood that the laborer is worth of his hire?
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Tzaia
In theory. In practice, people are worth nothing.
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Linda Z
OldSkool, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to start a new thread with your last post. Since the "current numbers" question comes up fairly often, some people might not read this thread and might miss your informative post. I think your recent, firsthand information about the HQ staff shortage is significant and shouldn't get buried here.
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OldSkool
I don't mind. Thanks!
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chockfull
Interesting to look at cause and effect here. Internationally HQ does not exert the same command and control tactics as happens in the USA. And the numbers are greater.
As far as the "facts" about numbers steadily rising, yes there is the standard BS party line on that happening. What's interesting is to look at how they try and achieve that in policies. For example, no Limb coordinator is allowed to remove someone from the rolls without approval from the Trunk office. Region, Limb, Branch coordinators turn in numbers every month, including any increase or decrease in numbers. There is verbal counsel from as high as the BOD level that showing loss reflects badly on their leadership. So they fudge numbers, include people on rolls that attend one event in 2 years, try and talk people into remaining in contact even though they are leaving to keep them on the books.
Those are facts.
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OldSkool
YES.
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bowtwi
You're funny! :wacko:
No, I've never shot a potato cannon, but I have shot a water balloon cannon and the notion of lobbing a few over Hwy 29 or Weirwille Rd. and landing them on the cult's president's head or the heads of the "safety dept" characters is kinda fun to imagine.
I do wonder sometimes if they've got someone to age-enhance those very old photos of us - else they wouldn't recognize us if we did decide to go slumming on over for a Sunday night snoozer service...
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Patriot
Is this "official" versus "developing" standard ('official' gets a flag in the west lobby, 'developing' with just military folks stationed there) a recent TWI policy? Please don't tell me it's always been that way.....then I would have to say, you "...don't know what you're talking about." I watched them eagerly pull an old S. Korean flag out of storage to display as soon as they heard a few military guys got stationed there and were getting together. Personally, I thought that was OK....why does it have to be 'official' trained folks there before they warrant a flag?
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