The Way's "Good Old Days" -> Deluded Nostalgia

[Watered Garden]

WG

[Tzaia]

I knew at least one family with heads of households well into their 30s who walked away from thriving businesses and what I would call "charmed" lives to enter FC. There was no (what I would call) logical reason for them to go, beyond the fallacy that WC was the "best" way to serve God's people. These were people who lived like they had a lot of money, but were hitting us up for sponsorship. When I asked them about that I was told that corp was supposed to live off of sponsor money.

I looked at WC as more of a college thing and less as missions training. Actually, I was never quite sure what the purpose was.

[George Aar]

Of course, most of US were those inexperienced kids when we first became followers of wierwille...

Exactly

And, yes, there were those odd few adults who somehow became enchanted with the Wizard of WayWorld. But, they are pretty exceptional, no? I really do think that had most of us been exposed to Wierwillism a few years later in life, it woulda been a "no sale"...

[Rocky]

Exactly

And, yes, there were those odd few adults who somehow became enchanted with the Wizard of WayWorld. But, they are pretty exceptional, no? I really do think that had most of us been exposed to Wierwillism a few years later in life, it woulda been a "no sale"...

As penworks mentioned, a large part of it is a sense of belonging...

For me, it is key to understanding our experience for me to keep in mind that many young adults "explore" various types of spiritual experiences. It's a very vulnerable time and TWI (by far) wasn't the only group to aim marketing efforts at that need.

btw, I've written out some of my additional thoughts (elsewhere) on my experience with the WC social site... I'm going to sit on that for a bit, then decide how much I'll post here. While I have criticisms of the way that site is now being run, I'm not a victim of anything and don't want to sound like it.

:)

[skyrider]

So many things.....but when I reflected back on some of these things, this is what struck me:

Transition and Transference

First post:

Here at the cafe.......lots of discussions and exploration of past decisions attempt to uncover the attractions and reasons for committing years of our lives to twi. Like many of you, I find it beneficial to dig back into the recesses of my mind and shine some light on the question why?

Two things immediately surface:

1) Transition: At that point in time, I was a teenager looking for *meaning in life* and was heading off to college. My world was changing........transitions in location, education, emotion, friendships, and just about every aspect of life. Free-wheeling along and alone and vulnerable, I also was in need of some spiritual ground to stand on.

When traveling, one is vulnerable to unfamiliar situations, road conditions, accidents, car-jackers, muggers, etc...... one should be wary and vigilant at all times.

2) Transference: When WOW Ambassadors witnessed to me during those college years, I was intrigued by their love and care and devotion to spiritual truths. Spending that year with them gave me insight into spiritual commitment, daily prayer, heart-felt communication.......all those things that embody the Chrisitian walk as a unique member and participant in God's household.

My mistake.........I transferred these first-hand qualities assuming that twi leadership at hq, and indeed wierwille, were the spiritual impetus and guardians of these truths. Just teaching or taking pfal does NOT entitle one's spiritual worth.

I did NOT do my homework......I did NOT take the time to check out twi's credentials. The hype and hoopla of twi and all that "they" offered led me astray. Guess I was looking forward rather that UPward.

Now.....I really don't "dig" into my past much anymore. I pocketed a few gold nuggets along the way, made some good friends, and on in life I go.

Edited September 23, 2009 by skyrider

[Rocky]

Good post, skyrider... tnks for bringing it back up here. :)

[taxicab]

I disagree. Here's why.

I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here.

Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns:

1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers

2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards,

3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty

4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives

5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism

6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is.

7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist?

But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.”

Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse.

In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated.

Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think.

While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human.

When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved.

Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

why can't I see my posts or anyone else's? Help!

[Rocky]

why can't I see my posts or anyone else's? Help!

here?

[taxicab]

Thanks everyone for putting up with my crys for "help"!!! For whatever reason I couldn't see any of the additional threads, but after playing around with some settings,signing out, signing back in,; deleting cookies (eating cookies) everything seems to be working correctly. Thanks

[taxicab]

Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult.

CULT CHARACTERISTICS & TECHNIQUES USED TO GAIN MIND CONTROL

ISOLATION: Loss of reality induced by physical separation from society & rational references.

HYPNOSIS: State of high suggestibility induced by hypnosis, often thinly disguised as meditation.

PEER GROUP PRESSURE: Suppression of doubt and resistance to new ideas, achieved by exploiting the natural need to belong.

LOVE BOMBING: Sense of family and belonging contrived through hugging, kissing, touching and flattery.

REMOVAL OF PRIVACY: Loss of ability to evaluate logically achieved by preventing private contemplation.

CHANGE OF DIET/SLEEP DEPRIVATION and FATIGUE: Withholding adequate rest, sleep and necessary nutrients (food) leads to disorientation and vulnerability created by prolonged mental and physical activity.

METACOMMUNICATION/CONFUSING DOCTRINE: Subliminal messages implanted by stressing certain key words or phrases in long, confusing lectures. Encourages rejection of logic and blind acceptance.

NO QUESTIONS: Automatic acceptance of beliefs accomplished by discouraging questions.

DRESS: Individuality removed by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

REPLACEMENT OF RELATIONSHIPS: Pre-cult families destroyed by arranging cult marriages and "families".

GUILT: Teachings of eternal salvation reinforced by exaggerating sins of the former lifestyle.

REJECTION OF OLD VALUES: Acceptance of new lifestyle accelerated by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

CONFESSION: Destruction of personal egos, increased vulnerability to new teachings and recruits weaknesses revealed, through sharing innermost secrets.

FEAR: Loyalty and obedience to group maintained by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest "negative" thought, word or deed.

CHANTING AND SINGING: Repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases eliminates non-cult ideas.

DISINHIBITION: Child-like obedience encouraged by orchestrating child-like behaviour.

CONTROLLED APPROVAL: Vulnerability and confusion maintained by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

FLAUNTING HIERARCHY: Acceptance of cult authority produced by promising advancement, power and salvation.

FINGER POINTING: False sense of righteousness created by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

FINANCIAL COMMITMENT: Increased dependence on the group achieved by "burning bridges" to past, through the donation of all assets.

[waysider]

"Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult."

If you just stayed in your own little local area and went to twig when you felt like it, took classes when they hit your fancy and lived your life by your own dictates, it probably wasn't very obvious to you what you were really involved in.

Edited September 25, 2009 by waysider

[Kevlar2000]

...after playing around with some settings,signing out, signing back in,; deleting cookies (eating cookies) everything seems to be working correctly.

:)

[Bishop]

I disagree. Here's why.

I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here.

Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns:

1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers

2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards,

3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty

4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives

5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism

6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is.

7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist?

But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.”

Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse.

In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated.

Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think.

While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human.

When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved.

Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

Dear Penworks,

You bring up a lot of really insightful and valid points. I do agree with you that there is a better existence for many than the Way and it's offshoots (or fundamentalism in general). I do not agree with you that the TWI/offshoot experience is simply wrong or bad. I think that the best life someone can live is just to be happy, love others, and help man kind. I don't believe that there is one simple right formula in life that produces good. It is not as simple as just finding the truth and then living by it. You see, the truth can be very elusive, and truth can be very depressing. A person can live their whole life believing lies (we all do) or even being part of an evil organization and still be happy, love others, and help mankind.

In fact, I think every church is based on a hodgepodge of truths, half-truths, and lies. Since being part of something bigger than ourselves is necessary for most people to be happy, i don't think it's as easy as saying that if people left the way they'd be happy. Most people would have been part of some other organization that possessed many bad attributes too. Take the catholic church, for instance. They also require adherence to prescribed dogma. IMHO, the catholic dogma tends to breed guilt and shame. Many people may find more peace and happiness following the catholic church, with its lies, truths, and half-truths than they would in the Way. Other Catholics found more value in TWI and were very glad to leave their church for the Way. Furthermore, I know believers who left a life of crime, hatred, and despair to follow TWI. Sure there could have been better alternatives for these people, but I don't think that we should discount the efforts of those in the Way who helped people find a BETTER life, even though it may not have been the BEST life.

As for me, I spent my whole life in "the Word". I can't rightly say that I would have been better off without the "Word" and the "Ministry" (whether TWI or the many other fellowships that taught the Word. I can pick out doctrines and practices that I really hated. It's been great to share those frustrations here. I can't renounce my whole experience as bad though, it's shaped my entire experience in life and i've gotten a lot out of going to fellowship. I've grown closer to family members because of our common faith. I've been able to meet a huge range of people at fellowships and I was able to practice compassion and charity to a lot of people. Likewise, I've received unconditional acceptance and love. I can't count how many times believers have helped me move or given me great advice. I've learned to work in small groups while witnessing. I've learned to give speak in public at days in the Word and advances. I've learned to control my thinking in a renewed mind classes (no not WC's). I've learned to overcome fear by facing problems. I've learned to deal with rejection while witnessing.

So, I'm looking forward to moving on with my life, but I can't say that I would have been better off without my experience as a Way believer. After all, my choice might have been between being a druggie and being a "believer". I wouldn't have been able to make a clean cut with dogmatic nutjobbery if I hadn't been gone through the whole TWI experience. I'm glad to be moving on, but I know that I'm leaving a lot of great memories in the past. The "ministry" is part of my heritage and I'm ok with that. I guess I'm an unbelieving believer now . . . .

Take Care,

Isaac

[Broken Arrow]

Dear Penworks,

You bring up a lot of really insightful and valid points. I do agree with you that there is a better existence for many than the Way and it's offshoots (or fundamentalism in general). I do not agree with you that the TWI/offshoot experience is simply wrong or bad. I think that the best life someone can live is just to be happy, love others, and help man kind. I don't believe that there is one simple right formula in life that produces good. It is not as simple as just finding the truth and then living by it. You see, the truth can be very elusive, and truth can be very depressing. A person can live their whole life believing lies (we all do) or even being part of an evil organization and still be happy, love others, and help mankind.

In fact, I think every church is based on a hodgepodge of truths, half-truths, and lies. Since being part of something bigger than ourselves is necessary for most people to be happy, i don't think it's as easy as saying that if people left the way they'd be happy. Most people would have been part of some other organization that possessed many bad attributes too. Take the catholic church, for instance. They also require adherence to prescribed dogma. IMHO, the catholic dogma tends to breed guilt and shame. Many people may find more peace and happiness following the catholic church, with its lies, truths, and half-truths than they would in the Way. Other Catholics found more value in TWI and were very glad to leave their church for the Way. Furthermore, I know believers who left a life of crime, hatred, and despair to follow TWI. Sure there could have been better alternatives for these people, but I don't think that we should discount the efforts of those in the Way who helped people find a BETTER life, even though it may not have been the BEST life.

As for me, I spent my whole life in "the Word". I can't rightly say that I would have been better off without the "Word" and the "Ministry" (whether TWI or the many other fellowships that taught the Word. I can pick out doctrines and practices that I really hated. It's been great to share those frustrations here. I can't renounce my whole experience as bad though, it's shaped my entire experience in life and i've gotten a lot out of going to fellowship. I've grown closer to family members because of our common faith. I've been able to meet a huge range of people at fellowships and I was able to practice compassion and charity to a lot of people. Likewise, I've received unconditional acceptance and love. I can't count how many times believers have helped me move or given me great advice. I've learned to work in small groups while witnessing. I've learned to give speak in public at days in the Word and advances. I've learned to control my thinking in a renewed mind classes (no not WC's). I've learned to overcome fear by facing problems. I've learned to deal with rejection while witnessing.

So, I'm looking forward to moving on with my life, but I can't say that I would have been better off without my experience as a Way believer. After all, my choice might have been between being a druggie and being a "believer". I wouldn't have been able to make a clean cut with dogmatic nutjobbery if I hadn't been gone through the whole TWI experience. I'm glad to be moving on, but I know that I'm leaving a lot of great memories in the past. The "ministry" is part of my heritage and I'm ok with that. I guess I'm an unbelieving believer now . . . .

Take Care,

Isaac

I think there is some truth in saying that I cannot rightfully claim I would have been better off without TWI. Certainly I must take responsibility for my own behavior and there must have been something about The Way International that was attractive to me or I would not have stayed for 15 years. There certainly were a lot of people who were not lured in and there was ample opportunity for me to see what was really going on. Moreover other people were able to leave, why didn't I? I did plenty of my own self promotion while I was in and probably would have found another venue to live out my own brokeness. Perhaps it would have been something much worse like drug addiction. Therein lies the rub. I would have been better off if I had been different or if I had been willing to face my own vices. Ultimately that is what it came to for me. I had to face the fact that I personally had some pretty dark issues of my own. It took the loss of my marriage to wake up to that. Was I ready to face my own demons at the age of 17 when I first associated with TWI? Maybe, but I certainly wasn't willing.

Edited September 26, 2009 by erkjohn

[Broken Arrow]

"Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult."

If you just stayed in your own little local area and went to twig when you felt like it, took classes when they hit your fancy and lived your life by your own dictates, it probably wasn't very obvious to you what you were really involved in.

Yeah but that was pretty hard to do. There was a lot of pressure to do something like go WOW or take the ADV Class, go to some event etc. Some people did it but they were looked down on and considered "fringe believers".

[waysider]

Yeah but that was pretty hard to do. There was a lot of pressure to do something like go WOW or take the ADV Class, go to some event etc. Some people did it but they were looked down on and considered "fringe believers".

I think we called them "deadwood".

Gotta prune the deadwood from time to time to make room for new growth..

Edited September 26, 2009 by waysider

[penworks]

So many things.....but when I reflected back on some of these things, this is what struck me:

Transition and Transference

Thanks for this well put explanation.

It surely is important to remember that many younger people are vulnerable during transition times...I'll dare say people at any age in various stages of change are especially vulnerable. My story is a little like what you described...in college, away from home, looking for answers, etc.

While in TWI, in regards to methods for witnessing: I remember being encouraged to check newspaper obituaries and contact the families of the deceased. The reason: they would need to know the truth about death, etc. and so might be very open to taking PFAL. Their obvious vulnerability was a red flag. Their broken hearts feed for preying upon.

I shudder to remember such things. I never followed that marketing advice, thank goodness. It was and is a repulsive and inhumane idea to me.

Edited September 26, 2009 by penworks

[taxicab]

I have notes on HOW TO PUT A PFAL CLASS TOGETHER IN 2 1/2 DAYS

We had 5 categories of people/candidates

1. Sure thing-paid in full

2. Strong possibility

3. Interested party

4. Mild possibility

5. Goat

I shudder to think that I referred to people as "goats" simply because they didn't want to shell out $200.00 to sit through a class they knew nothing about. I had forgotten that we also used the expression "dead wood" for people who wanted to lead normal lives. Very cruel words.

[Tzaia]

Dead wood. I didn't think of myself in that way.

[waysider]

Dead wood. I didn't think of myself in that way.

Of course not.

That's because you weren't (dead wood).

How twisted was this organization that it could get us to think that non productive members were something other than human beings and needed to be "pruned"?

And, this was back in the early 1970's.

You know------------- "the good old days".

[Rocky]

Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult.

CULT CHARACTERISTICS & TECHNIQUES USED TO GAIN MIND CONTROL

ISOLATION: Loss of reality induced by physical separation from society & rational references.

HYPNOSIS: State of high suggestibility induced by hypnosis, often thinly disguised as meditation.

PEER GROUP PRESSURE: Suppression of doubt and resistance to new ideas, achieved by exploiting the natural need to belong.

LOVE BOMBING: Sense of family and belonging contrived through hugging, kissing, touching and flattery.

REMOVAL OF PRIVACY: Loss of ability to evaluate logically achieved by preventing private contemplation.

CHANGE OF DIET/SLEEP DEPRIVATION and FATIGUE: Withholding adequate rest, sleep and necessary nutrients (food) leads to disorientation and vulnerability created by prolonged mental and physical activity.

METACOMMUNICATION/CONFUSING DOCTRINE: Subliminal messages implanted by stressing certain key words or phrases in long, confusing lectures. Encourages rejection of logic and blind acceptance.

NO QUESTIONS: Automatic acceptance of beliefs accomplished by discouraging questions.

DRESS: Individuality removed by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

REPLACEMENT OF RELATIONSHIPS: Pre-cult families destroyed by arranging cult marriages and "families".

GUILT: Teachings of eternal salvation reinforced by exaggerating sins of the former lifestyle.

REJECTION OF OLD VALUES: Acceptance of new lifestyle accelerated by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

CONFESSION: Destruction of personal egos, increased vulnerability to new teachings and recruits weaknesses revealed, through sharing innermost secrets.

FEAR: Loyalty and obedience to group maintained by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest "negative" thought, word or deed.

CHANTING AND SINGING: Repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases eliminates non-cult ideas.

DISINHIBITION: Child-like obedience encouraged by orchestrating child-like behaviour.

CONTROLLED APPROVAL: Vulnerability and confusion maintained by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

FLAUNTING HIERARCHY: Acceptance of cult authority produced by promising advancement, power and salvation.

FINGER POINTING: False sense of righteousness created by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

FINANCIAL COMMITMENT: Increased dependence on the group achieved by "burning bridges" to past, through the donation of all assets.

I would be surprised if ANYone here who considered themselves "followers of The Way" failed to recognize many of those things in their experience with twi.

[T-Bone]

I disagree. Here's why.

I understand how some people may think The Way was good "in the old days" and somehow "got off track" in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don't crave any of it. But I figure I'd pitch in my two cents here.

Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns "corrected to be accurate" with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning "what the Bible says." On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the "old TWI days," and these activities, I come up with some concerns:

1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers

2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards,

3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty

4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives

5. The issue of whether we were "helping people" by using tools belonging to VP's brand of fundamentalism

6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with "the Word." But what exactly is "The Word?" It's very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there's a definition for it somewhere. I don't know of one for "The Word." It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor's new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don't think anyone knows what The Word is.

7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what "The Word" is goes something like this: you have to "use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was." Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP's which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know "The Word," how come so many diverse interpretations persist?

But back to the good old days. Let's say the "good old Way days" were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP's teachings were God's Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP's delusion of "moving The Word over the World," and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn't, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were "born of the seed of the devil."

Let's not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse.

In my view, wishing for "the good old days of The Way" denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated.

Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul's case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think.

While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP's teachings, such as telling me I was "more than a conqueror" did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human.

When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way's "answers" but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that's part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved.

Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It's not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

Good morning everyone. Just checking in with my morning cup of coffee in hand and was shocked to read what's been going on while I snoozed away here in sunny Florida.

A quick update from my chair: Everything I write or say I take responsibility for, as we all do. My intent is to speak my mind on things which may be useful to others and do it not with the intention to harm. Then let the chips fall where they may. After reading all these recent posts, I signed into the other site and read those as well.

After much thought, I deleted this pesky post from the other site and sent a polite message to the owner. I did that out of respect for the owner's rules which before this incident were not so clear to me. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted this material there to begin with.

Anyway, it's wonderful to read such thoughtful replies both here and from people there who left comments. In both places there are some insightful and informative things said about the topics in the post. Believe me, I've put a lot of thought into these matters for more than 20 years and feel compelled to share what I've learned. About our lives, no one can speak for us other than our own voices. I'll leave you with my favorite quote on this theme:

"If we refuse to do the work of creating this personal version of the past, someone else will do it for us. That is the scary political fact. 'The struggle of man against power,' Milan Kundera's hero in The Book of Laughter and Forgetting says, 'is the struggle of memory against forgetting.' He refers to willful political forgetting, the habit of nations and those in power to deny the truth of memory in order to disarm moral and ethical power. It is an efficient way of controlling masses of people." From the book, I Could Tell You Stories by Patricia Hampl, pg.32.

Cheers! Enjoy your day!

Penworks

Some people who were in "The Way" deny that it was/is a cult.

CULT CHARACTERISTICS & TECHNIQUES USED TO GAIN MIND CONTROL

ISOLATION: Loss of reality induced by physical separation from society & rational references.

HYPNOSIS: State of high suggestibility induced by hypnosis, often thinly disguised as meditation.

PEER GROUP PRESSURE: Suppression of doubt and resistance to new ideas, achieved by exploiting the natural need to belong.

LOVE BOMBING: Sense of family and belonging contrived through hugging, kissing, touching and flattery.

REMOVAL OF PRIVACY: Loss of ability to evaluate logically achieved by preventing private contemplation.

CHANGE OF DIET/SLEEP DEPRIVATION and FATIGUE: Withholding adequate rest, sleep and necessary nutrients (food) leads to disorientation and vulnerability created by prolonged mental and physical activity.

METACOMMUNICATION/CONFUSING DOCTRINE: Subliminal messages implanted by stressing certain key words or phrases in long, confusing lectures. Encourages rejection of logic and blind acceptance.

NO QUESTIONS: Automatic acceptance of beliefs accomplished by discouraging questions.

DRESS: Individuality removed by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

REPLACEMENT OF RELATIONSHIPS: Pre-cult families destroyed by arranging cult marriages and "families".

GUILT: Teachings of eternal salvation reinforced by exaggerating sins of the former lifestyle.

REJECTION OF OLD VALUES: Acceptance of new lifestyle accelerated by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

CONFESSION: Destruction of personal egos, increased vulnerability to new teachings and recruits weaknesses revealed, through sharing innermost secrets.

FEAR: Loyalty and obedience to group maintained by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest "negative" thought, word or deed.

CHANTING AND SINGING: Repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases eliminates non-cult ideas.

DISINHIBITION: Child-like obedience encouraged by orchestrating child-like behaviour.

CONTROLLED APPROVAL: Vulnerability and confusion maintained by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

FLAUNTING HIERARCHY: Acceptance of cult authority produced by promising advancement, power and salvation.

FINGER POINTING: False sense of righteousness created by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

FINANCIAL COMMITMENT: Increased dependence on the group achieved by "burning bridges" to past, through the donation of all assets.

So many things.....but when I reflected back on some of these things, this is what struck me:

Transition and Transference

Great posts penworks, taxicab & skyrider – just wanted to lump these altogether in one post since my mind has been using them as a springboard to reflect on my own experience in both entering & exiting TWI.

At 21, I was definitely in a transition period – not only as a young man venturing out into the world but also looking for something more – perhaps the old “meaning of life” thing as skyrider put it. My life was in a state of flux – having dropped out of college [wondering how useful a bachelor of fine arts degree would be] – and invited to a twig by a new girlfriend. Those folks seemed to have everything I wanted – plus a seemingly sure-fire way of getting it quickly – PFAL. I’ll get back to this point in a minute.

What struck me the most in the articulate posts of penworks & taxicab is the overwhelming assault TWI mounted to one’s intellect. It was a learned-helplessness – I lost confidence in my own thinking skills. This is perhaps one of the greatest obstacles to overcome whenever a TWI follower entertains the idea of leaving. That’s what kept me in. Anytime a situation or thought would challenge my TWI mindset – it was a lot easier to squelch the issue OF MY OWN VOLITION – than to analyze it as a normal person would without their [TWI’s] insidious restraints. I tend to think if I would have kept to my fearless sense of adventure in checking out new things and a desire to analyze how things work [which was my nature BEFORE TWI] I probably would have blown thru TWI rather quickly ..alas.

Getting back to where I was going with my search or spiritual journey – whatever you want to call it – being a Christian ever since I can remember as a little boy and reflecting on my TWI days – I’m now of the opinion that one’s journey should be self-directed. I think that’s the way our minds were designed to develop and not atrophy. At least that’s the way I see it thru my “seasoned” faith or wherever I’m at now spiritually I don’t know - but reading Proverbs 2 after thinking over this thread, I was struck by the recommendation that WE are to search for wisdom, understanding, and discernment. I understand that to mean it should be a personal mission – a self-directed search, if you will. Looking for shortcuts & secret formulas compiled in a little orange PFAL book is sheer stupidity, wishful thinking & maybe just plain laziness. In TWI - I adopted their mission - my search was directed by their agenda and I analyzed things according to their standards.

I think if I would have followed Proverbs’ advice it might have kept me out of TWI or at least shortened my stay there – going by Proverbs 2:10-12 For wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; discretion will guard you, understanding will watch over you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things.

Edited September 26, 2009 by T-Bone

[penworks]

Dear Penworks,

... I do not agree with you that the TWI/offshoot experience is simply wrong or bad.

Dear Bishop,

My intention is to show that nostalgia for the "old days" does not serve us well. Also, I hoped to point out what many people miss and that is: that the foundation of the TWI/offshoot groups is Fundamentalism. If people don't know that, it sometimes makes it harder to understand the experience. Understanding my experience and creating a new life - not thinking "the old days" were so good when they were built on a faulty foundation which I think Fundamentalism provides - was my intention in this post.

If you feel your experience was good for you, great. For many others theirs was not. Mine was a mix. Sometimes it helps to know more information that can clear up foggy issues about the past. For me, understanding Fundamentalism was a huge relief...it made it possible for me to explore more of the history of the kind of thinking and the kind of bible study I had been caught up in. That system puts people at a disadavantage by keeping them locked in from considering other valid and wonderful ways of being in the world. These are only a few of my many thoughts on this, so I feel it's best to let this go for now. If you are interested, I would be happy to provide you with some book titles on the subject.

I wish you the best in your journey. It's yours. Cherish it.

Peace,

Penworks

[Bishop]

Dear Bishop,

My intention is to show that nostalgia for the "old days" does not serve us well. Also, I hoped to point out what many people miss and that is: that the foundation of the TWI/offshoot groups is Fundamentalism. If people don't know that, it sometimes makes it harder to understand the experience. Understanding my experience and creating a new life - not thinking "the old days" were so good when they were built on a faulty foundation which I think Fundamentalism provides - was my intention in this post.

If you feel your experience was good for you, great. For many others theirs was not. Mine was a mix. Sometimes it helps to know more information that can clear up foggy issues about the past. For me, understanding Fundamentalism was a huge relief...it made it possible for me to explore more of the history of the kind of thinking and the kind of bible study I had been caught up in. That system puts people at a disadavantage by keeping them locked in from considering other valid and wonderful ways of being in the world. These are only a few of my many thoughts on this, so I feel it's best to let this go for now. If you are interested, I would be happy to provide you with some book titles on the subject.

I wish you the best in your journey. It's yours. Cherish it.

Peace,

Penworks

Thanks for the kind reply! How long have you been out?

[Ham]

I dunno. It just seems to me..

isn't the concept itself.. INSANE?

that is.. a *way corps* site.. a *family* reunion..

they WERE NOT your "family".. at the drop of a hat, or suggestion of a *mog* you were unfaithful, unworthy, unproductive.. worthless.. you've given your talent and money to for the most part a proven worthless cause..

your *degree* wasn't worth the paper it was printed on..

sorry, those are just a few *objective* observations..

I just don't see how being in an *exclusive* club of this sort bears out any kind of boastable benefit or such..

"yeah.... we were *there*.."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being mean or anything, I just don't get it..