I have read several places where the blame for VPW's illness and death lie solely on the "believers" who simply didn't have their minds renewed and operating correctly to keep VPW alive, while at the same time blaming anyone who got sick and wasn't healed for their own misfortune and lack of believing.
Why wasn't VPW reamed for his lack of believing? Why wasn't he mark & avoided? Why didn't anyone cast out his devil spirits?
Isn't that a bit of a double standard?
Seriously though, most of us rank and file were unaware of his illness. His death was a complete surprise while the cause was shrouded in secrecy.
There have been several threads that have discussed this issue. One, specifically, deals with the dilemma his death from cancer presents. I'm not very skilled in doing searches but here is the essence of the dilemma:
FIRST
Wierwille taught, in the AC, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. More bluntly, that if you have cancer, you are possessed. Though he softened that message a bit in his delivery.
Now the dilemma
If Wierwille was correct, it means we were following a man who was devil possessed.
If Wierwille was wrong, it destroys his credibility regarding spiritual matters. It means he could have been wrong about anything and everything.
I contracted cancer myself in 1987 and I was a Corps Grad. I felt a great deal of shame and really questioned my worth as a leader and my effectiveness as a believer. "How could I, a Corps Grad, allow myself to get possessed?" I thought. In fact, I delayed getting examined because I didn't want to face facts. I was ashamed to tell others including family members and fellow Corps. Everyone in TWI was nice to me, at least to my face. I wasn't aware that VPW had died of cancer. I am completely cancer free (praise God!), but it took quite awhile for me to pull myself together emotionally. It shook me to the core. I finally had to face the fact that VPW was actually wrong about something. Later I found out that he himself had died of cancer 2 years prior.
So, yes. This doctrine did a lot of damage at least to me and I would imagine lot of other people. It makes sense, but I wasn't aware that others were blamed for VP's illness, that is, outside of POP. I think I heard somewhere that the in-residence Corps at the time was yelled at for allowing the MOG to die "on their watch". Is that true?
VPW died about a month after I had cancer surgery. My family had to come in from out of town and help with my kids as no one from TWI was "available" to help. Fortunately, no one from TWI came right out and told me I was possessed; they just stayed away.
VPW died about a month after I had cancer surgery. My family had to come in from out of town and help with my kids as no one from TWI was "available" to help. Fortunately, no one from TWI came right out and told me I was possessed; they just stayed away.
That's awful! I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way and that was wrong.
That's awful! I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way and that was wrong.
I know it was wrong, but it turned out for the best. After that, when someone attempted to tell me that TWI was my "real" family, I could say no without a trace of doubt. I knew who my real family was, and it was no one in TWI.
It's ironic that we were all supposed to be responsible for ourselves, our own actions, our believing...
...and suddenly the rank and file is responsible for VPW's believing as well...? huh??
Nothing about his own personal responsibility for abusing his body with cigs and ruining his liver with too much alcohol.
Perhaps he was afflicted with a spirit of forgetfulness - he forgot that he had drunk all that alcohol. Or...a spirit of infirmity, that paralyzed his hand so that he couldn't put his hand up to (accept responsibility for) his (cough) indiscretions.
Jeesh! This always bugs the snot out of me. Cancer is about 600 different diseases with about as many causes. Some are caused by just, well, we don't know, some are genetic, at least one is actually viral (Burkitt's lymphoma).(sp?)
I worked for 9 years in a cancer hospital, and trust me, cancer patients are patients, not possessed. Some of the bravest, funniest, most inspirational people I will ever know I met working there. God bless them every one!
I'm so sorry for all y'all went through with that bunch of uneducated zombies. It's bad enough to have something scary like cancer without having to put up with their ignorance.
I was on staff @ International HQ during the time of VPW's illness & subsequent death. TO answer your questions from my POV:
(sorry bout the length of this post - hope the background info fills in some blanks for folks)
I have read several places where the blame for VPW's illness and death lie solely on the "believers" who simply didn't have their minds renewed and operating correctly to keep VPW alive, while at the same time blaming anyone who got sick and wasn't healed for their own misfortune and lack of believing.
Looking back w/ a more objective viewpoint... TWI was a total mess during this era. As the ministry grew into a multi-million $$$ corporation "leadership" guys were pretty much all lusting after the major positions. After all, the bigger your TWI post, the more power & influence. Eg: Limb leader (state "coordinators") jobs, came w/ company cars, a big house & travel/expense budget to "coordinate" your state (kingdom).
Guys wanted the big states, for obvious reasons & some maybe not so obvious.
VPW, as he got older & began the process of turning over the reigns, especially after he announced his retirement and the "search" for the next president, lost more & more "control" over how guys ran their areas. His own son Donnie ushered in the "new way" we do things, His way became "the old Way" or, as Donnie put it, "Dad's Way." There was constant bickering @ HQ around the concept of "we don't do it that way anymore."
People began to assume that the bigger the position, the "more spiritual" they were. They were constantly "over spiritualizing" stuff, hurting people and using position to bend people to their own will. All was done in the name of God, Jesus, and of course, VPW. That stuff helped inspire the leadership terminology change from "Leader," as in Region, Limb, Branch or Twig, to "Coordinator." The Trustees had simply lost control & they knew it. They were trying to reign "leadership" in at the same time "leadership" was setting up their own little & some big, "kingdoms."
All of us who actually knew VPW & had known him for a long time (especially the locals) understood that whereas he was capable of being "really great" he was a completely high strung, head strong loose cannon who would say & do "all kinds of stuff." Yes, some it it was really "out there" into the crazy range. (This is why they originally set TWI up w/ THREE trustees all executive decisions were decided by a 2/3 majority.) VP would say extreme & off the wall stuff so often, HQ folk were sorta used to it. We used to all be humans @ HQ before we were elevated to different levels of "gods in a stick." VP's wild foot nature was accepted as part of his humanness.
Urmal Owens was steady, patient, wise, sound thinking; a real salt of the earth kinda guy. He and Uncle Harry ( who, admittedly by VP) was the only man on the planet who could influence VP & change his mind on things. When Uncle Harry died, it hurt VP to the bone & changed him. That, in retrospect, I think was the beginning of the end for VP (in quite a few ways), Harry was his big brother, his backbone, and in many was, his conscience. Harry & Ermal were the behind the scenes guys who stabilized the early growth of TWI & did the "heavy lifting" at the major leadership level to build TWI through its infancy.
How does all this speak to your question above? Well... It was basically LCM & Howard Allen who put out the BS that "it was you believers' fault" that VPW died. As with all of the best lies, there was a measure of truth to it. VP actually did "die of a broken heart." Of course it wasn't the literal cause of his death; (he died of Melanoma, etc.) VP's heart was broken by the fact that as he grew older & knew his days were numbered, as he looked God in the face, all he could see reflected back was his own failure. Those whom he had trusted the most to carry on the ministry had for the most part ALL betrayed him, they all wanted "the BIG position." Too many guys simply wanted the "keys to Ambassador One." They lusted after the motorcoaches, the campuses, all of the power & prestige that went w/ having the reigns over a world-wide multi million corporation where people simply gave you the $$$. The Trustees had basically agreed at that time; "you stay out of my are & I'll stay out of yours. Donnie & Howard took all of the operational business aspects of the ministry (as memory serves... Donnie took Emporia & Indiana Campus & the College program & Howard took Gunnison & LEAD) and the gave Craig free reign over the The Way Corps, Sunday Night Services, and Way Productions. The other two split up the stuff @ HQ. Basically Craig was free to run around & do "spiritual stuff" that Howard & Donnie didn't really care about.
My take on the whole deal is that I don't think VP ever got over the loss of his brother, emotionally. He basically felt betrayed by those he trusted most. Having the ministry survive to the next generation was a HUGE THING to VPW. He saw that not happenning as he'd envisioned. He was surrounded by too darn many yes men & those whose motivation was to get as much "Leadership" as they could. As they say, power corrupts, & absolute power corrupts absolutely. Vp had absolute power & with Harry gone, VP lost his "compass," and the monster that we now know as VPW went basically unfettered.
The cracks that grew into what we now call "splinter groups" started many decades ago. Vp's position allowed him the luxury of making the sometimes outlandish statements that grew into ludicrous doctrines and hideous practices. Whereas they are now widely exposed the arguments existed LOOOOOONG ago and the riffs were firmly entrenched in the ministry before the FIRST ROA in 1971. POP was only a straw that broke the camel's back. There were many things that VP had said in classes that were known to be "not particularly accurate." Whereas the veneer of VP seemed unchallenged, that was not the case behind the closed doors in the research dept. and others who were with VP basically from the start. Vp's stuff was challenged; by basically the same guys who now shout it from the rooftops, so to speak. The whole thing about cancer being a devil spirit, as time went on had less & less credence among top leadership. They basically ignored it, right along with his "...the original sin, that took place in Genesis, during the first period of man's existence on earth; the original sin was MASTURBATION...." (from the original Christian Family & Sex class.)
SAY WHAT?!!!
One prevailing foundational issue with all of the erroneous doctrine of TWI was this: For the most part when the classes were filmed, he overwhelming majority of Wafers, even the leadership simply wasn't old enough (in general) to have experienced middle aged things like "normal" health infirmities like cancer. (When I was involved, the average age of a wafer was around my age & I'm just past 50 NOW; having been out for 21 years.) Not too many of the young people challenged VP on anything back then (but there were some, even back in the 60's). For the most part folks would just parrot his stuff.
As years progresses there were a few unquestionably "believing believers" across the country & world who HQ knew had come down w/ cancer(s), strokes, miscarriages & the like, things VP has said in the Advanced Class were devil spirit influenced, or worse. Life pretty much went on as usual. We would get prayer requests and pray over them at lunch every day. When VP was healthy & in charge we'd just pray for stuff. We'd also hear about miracles on a regular basis. In the 60's & 70's VP would actually ENCOURAGE people to send their ill & infirm to HQ... to get them healed. It was common to have possessed people from the area running 'round HQ. They would invite them to a meal & cast out their spirits. In fact the locals used to complain about all the "crazies; The Way would attract them like a magnet."
HOWEVER; the advanced class teaching was still out there & when VP came down with CANCER! How could LCM say. "Hey gang, our 'Father in The Word; you know, the one who chose me as his successor... is POSSESSED, with a spirit of CANCER! In fact, he was possessed when he CHOSE ME to TAKE OVER...!!!" I don't think so. He would have sunk his presidency like a rock in a mud puddle. There wasn't a snowball's chance in hades that LCM would let that cat out of the bag. Primarily because there was already major dissent at the top (as in major Limb & above) leadership levels concerning Craig as VP's choice for Pres. There were at least three, maybe as many as five guys who all felt (and they have varying levels of support) they had a legit shot at the tip, top, spot. There were even some who felt that LCM actually should NOT have been chosen. They were only inches from rebellion. It was only the fact that we all loved & believed in VP that they only fought about it behind closed doors in the leaders meetings. There was no way Craig was givin' up his "key to the city."
So, in typical LCM fashion, he pulled a power-play... He put a major guilt trip on the believers. He was just instituting the form of BS "logic" they still use even today to manipulate people. He tried to sanctify & martyrize VP, all the while elevating himself as one who had some mysterious knowledge from God (that we all didn't & don't have access too, seeing as WE're NOT "the man of God." Part of the MOG s.o.p. is that they get revelation(s), presumably from God. VP had "sources in the know" literally all over the country & world, believers in high positions in corporations, military, government, even the professional sports world who would call him up & tell him stuff. Some of it he shared, some he didn't. Often when he shared stuff, people assumed it was "from God;" pretty much every time he'd say stuff, if he didn't mention a source (which he generally didn't) people would assume he was speaking from God's mouth to our ears. Not to defend the guy or excuse his behavior, (because I DON'T) but you gotta recognize how intoxicating that can be.
Moving right along...
Why wasn't VPW reamed for his lack of believing?
Simple. You don't ream your boss, you'll get fired (and lose your kingdom).
As I said, HQ staff (at all of our locations) people were all, myself included, and to varying degrees "jockying" to hold onto our "kingdoms." As staff members, round Corps week/ROA time some people would look at us "woodgrainers" like we were MEAT, they were salivating for our spot. When I first came on staff in 1979, not too many folk wanted to work at the "Way farm." That was pre-OSC days. Then came the big building, cushy offices & most of all salaried jobs that you didn't REALLY have to be qualified for. There were relatively few people on staff who had the commensurate education/degree/experience to actually qualify for their job. In fact MOST people who had staff jobs probably would NOT have won that job "in the world" at a similar size company doing similar stuff. On the other hand I got my job @ HQ BECAUSE I had the right schooling & talent to do it. I went WOW and then into the WC to gain some spiritual & life experience to enhance my professional qualifications for my job. I'd originally applied for my spot when I was 19, in 1977. As time went on through the 80's though competition for staff job got a little stiffer, professionally, but people started thinking they could get a staff spot or even take yours if they were somehow deemed "more spiritual" than you. I knew my spot was secure though. especially as long as VP was alive. (I was the first one fired though, when LCM decided to get rid of everybody on staff who wouldn't play ball with him.)
Unfortunately, things had degraded around the ministry by that time to major politics & red tape to get things done and even get & keep your job on Staff. Who you knew established your power base & secured your spot. Some folks had worked at HQ long enough that they were a little out of touch with their industries. They feared the prospect of having to qualify for the same job outside HQ. We used to call HQ "WayWorld" because we set & maintained our our standards, regardless. Ie: We NEVER made the deadline to publish The Way Magazine (that's why you always got yours late). We did the art, we owned the press, we did the shipping... If VP our one of our "major contributors" missed a deadline... since they were "more spiritual" we be forced to alter our production schedule because they didn't get their stuff to us.
I mean....Who was "I" to tell a REGION leader (excuse me.... COORDINATOR) that if he didn't get his s#!+ together and get his article in on time for "MY" Way Mag spread "I" was designing that HIS "revelation from GOD to the believers" wouldn't get published???
That thinking was magnified to the Nth degree w/VP by then. However. When nobody was around, & it was just us I would TELL VP what to do all the time, it was my job. And when it came to my job VP would only set the general direction the rest was up to me. At first he'd tell me these crazy ideas about projects he wanted, or show up for a photo shoot in a wild outfit... & I'd look at him & shake my head, "No. We can't do that, that's not cool."
"Its not?" He'd say..
"Nope. Not even close."
Then, he's laugh that goofy laugh of his & say, "Mrs. Get the boy some milk & COOK-ies while I change my clothes. He' young, they're always hung-ry..."
I wouldn't tell him he was possessed when he was sick though.... he clearly wasn't, he was ill.
Why wasn't he mark & avoided? Why didn't anyone cast out his devil spirits?
Isn't that a bit of a double standard?
Actually, the whole M&A thing was way after VP's death. It was an LCM thing, yet another of his endless power plays. But....
YES! At mid 80's HQ there were double, triple, and a whole stinking matrix of standards that we actually operated on. We had long lost the notion of "Chapter & verse" to reign in our behavior. It was more like, may the biggest stick win, in the name of Jesus Christ - that is. Honestly speaking, my "power base" came from Donnie W, (BOT) Bob W!%garner (President's cabinet) and VPW himself. Plus the fact that I was a "semi-old timer." I would constantly shut people up by saying stuff like, "I know what VP actually said about that because I was there when he said it..." I had worked w/ VP on his personal projects from 1979 until he died. If anybody got wrong w/me I could simply go to VP and trump anybody.
In fact. Mrs VPW & Emogene Allen sorta adopted me when I came on staff cause I was only a few months past 21 and far away from home. I used to run twig in the basement of the Wierwille home & Mrs VP was our snack coordinator. We'd sit for hours & hours in their basement talking & she'd pull out their private family photo albums. She showed me/us pictures that were never published in anything of their famed trip to India (from PFAL). I've seen before & after pictures of the "man with the withered arm" ... he was waving it! I used to babysit the Allen boys & the Wierwille grandchildren & was one of their children's fellowship teachers & was around so much taking pictures at their family gatherings I was almost like one of them. VP saw my name on a list of WC needing sponsorship to graduate & paid off the last part of my tuition himself. I used to drive him & his guests in his Lincoln on special event weekends when he was in town & hang out with him tinkering on his Harleys in the shop in the courtyard. He was like a grandfather to me. Even long after I was M&A I called Mrs. W and came & had tea w/ her, on her porch... for old time's sake... no security escort in or out.
All that being said. It actually WAS his fault. He was at the helm, knew it wasn't gonna make it he knew he'd messed it up & it broke his heart that it all went down like it did.
Your posts are always enlightening bro'...thanks for sharing
What I get out of what you posted was that TWI was a business; the business may have been pushing a particular biblical-spiritual viewpoint, but it was a business just the same, with jockeying for power, self-serving actions, politics and back-stabbing. So many of us thought it was purely a spiritual enterprise, ordained in some fashion by God, that it was a body blow to our worldview when the curtain was pulled aside and we saw who the "Great and Terrible Oz" really was.
Part of what tied TWI up in knots after Wierwille died was the crazy stuff that he said and did that was regarded by some as just as good as God saying it. The contradictions came home to roost.
All that being said. It actually WAS his fault. He was at the helm, knew it wasn't gonna make it he knew he'd messed it up & it broke his heart that it all went down like it did.
Yeah.....it WAS his fault that the "ministry" went down in flames.
Along with H.E.'s death in the fall of 1977......Ermal died in July of 1979.
In Feb/Mar of 1982, vpw ordained Cgeer and sent him to Europe. Clearly, the ultra-egos of Geer and Martindale could NOT be on the same continent together. Geer became the European Coordinator and the European Corps Coordinator along with a dozen other responsibilities. It didn't take but a few months and Cgeer was dictating policy of what "his" European corps would and wouldn't do.
IMO....wierwille had lost the respect of many of his clergy by 1979/1980.
Wierwille had grandeoise "visions".....but many in upper leadership were only counting the days until he retired. All those camp gunnison visions and sunset corps claims........never happened.
Wierwille had become marginalized by 1980......his entourage was falling by the wayside. His Ambassador One pilot abruptly quit and left, a couple of bodyguard guys were publicly scolded and fired, and more than likely.....years of heavy smoking and alcoholism were catching up to his 63 year old body.
In 1976, the Fellow Laborers of Ohio were rousted in the middle of the night for an emergency meeting. (I'm not the only GSC poster who was in that meeting.) The mood of the meeting was intensely dark and demoralizing. We were told that "the ministry" was going down the tubes and Word Over The World was in jeopardy because of--------US! Yep. It was all our fault. See, we were in "the birthplace of the ministry" and our believing was dragging the whole thing down the crapper.
None of us had any idea what we could have possibly done to have these charges leveled against us. It was never explained. It was all a downward spiral for us FLO from that point on. We were constantly badgered about our "lack of believing" for the rest of that year.
Years later, after looking around greasespot a bit, I discovered that, lo and behold, this same scenario had been played out in the corps at the same point in time. We were played. This whole thing was preconceived and staged. It was nothing more than theatrics, designed to gain control of us.
Sorry, I just can't buy this whole "broken heart" nonsense now that I understand what was REALLY going on.
In 1976, the Fellow Laborers of Ohio were rousted in the middle of the night for an emergency meeting. (I'm not the only GSC poster who was in that meeting.) The mood of the meeting was intensely dark and demoralizing. We were told that "the ministry" was going down the tubes and Word Over The World was in jeopardy ...
Years later, after looking around greasespot a bit, I discovered that, lo and behold, ... We were played. This whole thing was preconceived and staged. It was nothing more than theatrics, designed to gain control of us.
Sorry, I just can't buy this whole "broken heart" nonsense now that I understand what was REALLY going on.
I trust you understand the sarcastic overtones and that I'm using the whole "broken heart" thing figuratively. My point being that now, after I've had some two decades of maturity, spiritual mileage and just basic life experience to add to my person; since leaving TWI... I can more clearly see the experience, even in retrospect.
You said it buddy...now that I/we understand what was really going on... when we look back it can be so clear, IF we take our blinders and emotional projections off of the experience.
Yes. It Was Not His Fault... Oh, YES IT WAS. I saw, & knew all of the things I mentioned in my extremely long post. BUT. I saw them differently then. Now. I took great care not to say that VPW's heart was broken because they BETRAYED him.
I'm on record here saying that it was Donnie W. that took down TWI & his father VPW.... at least from the business POV. However, part of the reason I mentioned Mrs. showing us the family album from the India trip is that I also saw pictures of Donnie as a child & read the look of disappointment/anger on his face. Now that I have a son who is coming into adolescence and a College grad daughter and have experienced ALMOST losing my daughter's love & respect over a stupid bonehead decision.... I've seen the look in my children's eyes that told me, "one step further Dad & I'm lost to you...."
I pulled up. I didn't make the bonehead decision. In fact I made the BEST decision I could FOR my daughter & make the best decision(s) I can FOR my other children to reel them back into my nest, so to speak. Even if it means some sacrifice for me at that point. I "count it all but lost to gain" my child's heart.
VP gave his son, his eldest son, "the finger" and did irreparable damage to that bright young boy, who grew into a man who had a love/hate relationship with his father, VPW. VP gave his son little choice.
Donnie didn't betray his father, he REPAID him.
VP, created every crack that existed in TWI with his own hard-headed arrogance. In so doing he proved and lived the Word of God that he told us that he loved so dearly.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
"...the foolish man builds his house upon the sand..."
VPW in his years building TWI left a wake of hurt people all along the way, many who would have been capable allies, he turned them into angered enemies with a legitimate axe to grind against him.
Losing TWI was actually, in VPW's own words, "the consequences of his unbelief."
Donnie, Craig, Howard A., Chris & others simply did as they were taught and "no man can go any further than he is led."
As for Vp. "Woe be unto you, scribes, pharisees, hypocrites."
Yeah.....it WAS his fault that the "ministry" went down in flames.
Along with H.E.'s death in the fall of 1977......Ermal died in July of 1979.
Shooting Ermal's funeral was one of the first of the "VPW's personal projects" I'm constantly blabbering about my having done. It was during that time & some of the private moments when VP spoke his feelings; of course Ermal's death reminded him of the loss of Harry. He talked about what those guys meant to him & made some transparent "telling statements" that helped me get to know the real VP.
During the whole time he said, "I don't think I'll ever be the same without my brother Harry, now that Ermal's gone too..." then he broke up in tears a little, Then went on to say something else.
In Feb/Mar of 1982, vpw ordained Cgeer and sent him to Europe. Clearly, the ultra-egos of Geer and Martindale could NOT be on the same continent together.
Craig had been pretty much the undisputed "alpha dog" of the the Corps, but the first few WC groups were "hippies." Kinda grungy as it were. When the 7th Corp came along HQ was abuzz about how they were the "best Corps ever," & clearly Chris was everything Craig was and more. The buzz was really similar to the sciptural account of Saul & David, where the people said, "Saul (Craig) killed his thousands, yet David (Chris) killed his ten thousands." Whereas Craig had that loveable goofy "Okie" kinda charm. CG was smooth, polished, ultra-organized & sophisticated. CG made being the "top guy" in his Corps group look easy.... whereas Craig had had to to work at it. It was obvious that "this farm ain't big enough for the both of us, dude." ... was in the air.
IMO....wierwille had lost the respect of many of his clergy by 1979/1980.
Wierwille had grandeoise "visions".....but many in upper leadership were only counting the days until he retired.
... so they could establish their own kingdoms
His Ambassador One pilot abruptly quit and left, a couple of bodyguard guys were publicly scolded and fired, and more than likely.....years of heavy smoking and alcoholism were catching up to his 63 year old body.
Ambassador One pilot ...is a smart guy.
I'll never forget seeing VP drunk @ staff Christmas Party that first year on staff. .. lost a lot of respect for him that day.
VP gave his son, his eldest son, "the finger" and did irreparable damage to that bright young boy, who grew into a man who had a love/hate relationship with his father, VPW. VP gave his son little choice.
Donnie didn't betray his father, he REPAID him.
And......so did many of those 1970s region/limb guys. They REPAID wierwille with many years of devoted loyalty.....yet, covertly building regional loyalty in their "kingdoms." They, too, had learned the lessons well from wierwille.....sectioning off a power base in incremental steps. Heck, even Emogene did that right under the nose of wierwille. She wielding a massive power base at hq.....as she moved her authority into printing, shipping, receiving, warehousing, etc. She dictated policy for "her" workers and every Thursday night, "her staff" worked a mandatory shift.
VP, created every crack that existed in TWI with his own hard-headed arrogance. In so doing he proved and lived the Word of God that he told us that he loved so dearly.
The way corps program was an elitist, indoctrination program. Wierwille designed it and fueled its competitive nature. At times, wierwille pitted one leader against another.....subtly, of course. In his narcissism, he publically stroked the egos of some....only to foster more loyalty and favor from another. When I came on staff in 1978, the older good-hearted staff people were systematically being replaced by the new corps grads. Wierwille allowed it.....not taking a stand for those who had given 10-15 years of dedicated service to twi.
The clergy, as well, were NOT a collective unit. From my staff position, wierwille was above reproach and his upper tier of clergy became above reproach. Monkey see, monkey do. The high-profile clergy followed wierwille and his policies......NOT the Scriptures, not the Lord Jesus Christ. Now...now, in retrospect, it is so clear that it was a MLM structure, a business, at best. But even more.......at worse, twi was a devilish con by a false prophet whose deception base was steal, kill, and destroy. Lives were stolen from godly service, money was stolen from true community/national efforts.....goals were dashed, dreams were killed.....lives were destroyed.
As for Vp. "Woe be unto you, scribes, pharisees, hypocrites."
I was in-residence when Haary died and of course we had 24 hours of prayer. I never understood that concept. If you talk to God once, isn't that enough, 24 hours, sleep deprivation, and he died anyway. How old was Uncle Harry when he died? It seems to me that most Wierwille's don't live into old age; they're on the short end of an American's life expectancy. It's probably a combination of bad genes as well as some poor life choices along the way.
As far as vpw dieing of a broken heart, I can't believe that for a minute. IMO, he died because he had cancer, now maybe he waited too long to go and see a doctor, I don't know. Maybe he was afraid the doctor would tell him he needed to lay off the drambuie for awhile!
I can recall many, many instances that reminds me how it feels to live in such a group where everything is blamed on everyone else besides the leader who IMHO holds almost all the accountability before God.
The content of this thread obliges me to print it out so I can go through it thoroughly.....Thank you all.
... besides the leader who IMHO holds almost all the accountability before God.
I don't agree.
We are all accountable before God even in who we choose for our leaders. That is why when someone tried to tell me what they thought I needed to be doing to please God, I would ask if they would be there to vouch for me at the Bema. It was a rhetorical question. Regardless of why I make the choice, it is ultimately mine to make.
IMO, blame needs to be assigned carefully as in blaming cancer on a devil spirit. I would propose that in light of VPW's cause of death and TWI's stance on the cause of cancer, that everything he ever taught needs to be thrown out, because he was possessed.
Well I think you have a good point Tzaia, everybody should be accountable for their own actions. And no matter what the other factors are that still needs to be true.
but in my case, the leader is the one who according to true TWI style holds a stranglehold over what people do and don't believe and what people think of others within the group. And in my case I hold people responsible for their own actions on one level, like the abusive thug who in a spittle flying fit told me to "F" mY recently deceased Grandmother. And the fact that he belittled me in front of my ex-wife was very humiliating.
But from my perspective V.B. is the one who has been in control of my former splinter group and according to the very worst of TWI style control, manipulation, and bullying techniques has made RRF a place where these Way Corps leadership techniques can thrive. The particular thug that belittled me so is the same one who was accorded the duty of informing me that I was being kicked out the very same day that he moved my wife and one year old son out of my house. And even though his acts of thuggery are very personal to me V. Barnard is the one who the RRF folks have called "the Word in the flesh."
So even though I see good sense in what you are saying Tzaia, because I've seen this very nasty little splinter group develop from the TWI split in the late eighties first and foremost according to the particular types of insanity that dwell in just one man it is still my opinion that he more than anyone else will bear the brunt of the responsibility for all the nasty, vicious, and controlling things that he and his thugs and thuggettes have done. Most of the thugs were led there by him. And he is sure to not allow anyone else to spit on anyone like he has (I mean literally hocking a lugey in a sleeping man's face.) if for no other reason than his narcissistic tendencies or his manic need to be in total control.
I could liken how I consider "responsibility before God" as it pertains to a heirarchtical organization to the nazis.
Nazi extermination camp gaurds have been held accountable for their own actions but Hitler was most responsible for putting together the system that needed those guards to commit their atrocities.
In simple terms, I believe that in terms of accountability before God that sh!t actually runs uphill.
That is some truly amazing info to me that you posted, thank you.
I can't help but consider that the things that LCM, Geer, Howard Allen, and Donnie Wierwille did were learned from VPW as much as anybody. And that when they pulled their guilt trips and power plays they were really only following in VPW's footsteps.
I have heard a lot of sharings that make it clear that in spite of VPW's charms that he was also exceedingly nasty whenever he perceived a possible threat to his power and authority here. He certainly spent a lot of time reaming those whose only crime was that with clear consciences they challenged his doctrines or did things that a narcissistic man would consider a public challenge to his status.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this ok...
I've read the POP, some time ago, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't the believers that VP blamed but instead it was the board of trustees. I think in the last part of the document, VP asked CG if they had changed and the answer was no.
Somehow I got the idea that VP thought if they had changed, if they somehow started looking at him as the MOG he was again, he could live.
Any further posts on this to clarify would be welcome....
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Tzaia
I have read several places where the blame for VPW's illness and death lie solely on the "believers" who simply didn't have their minds renewed and operating correctly to keep VPW alive, while at the
Broken Arrow
I contracted cancer myself in 1987 and I was a Corps Grad. I felt a great deal of shame and really questioned my worth as a leader and my effectiveness as a believer. "How could I, a Corps Grad, allow
HCW
I was on staff @ International HQ during the time of VPW's illness & subsequent death. TO answer your questions from my POV: (sorry bout the length of this post - hope the background info fills i
waysider
There have been several threads that have discussed this issue. One, specifically, deals with the dilemma his death from cancer presents. I'm not very skilled in doing searches but here is the essence of the dilemma:
FIRST
Wierwille taught, in the AC, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. More bluntly, that if you have cancer, you are possessed. Though he softened that message a bit in his delivery.
Now the dilemma
If Wierwille was correct, it means we were following a man who was devil possessed.
If Wierwille was wrong, it destroys his credibility regarding spiritual matters. It means he could have been wrong about anything and everything.
Either way, it's a losing situation.
edit:
Check THIS out.
And THIS
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Broken Arrow
I contracted cancer myself in 1987 and I was a Corps Grad. I felt a great deal of shame and really questioned my worth as a leader and my effectiveness as a believer. "How could I, a Corps Grad, allow myself to get possessed?" I thought. In fact, I delayed getting examined because I didn't want to face facts. I was ashamed to tell others including family members and fellow Corps. Everyone in TWI was nice to me, at least to my face. I wasn't aware that VPW had died of cancer. I am completely cancer free (praise God!), but it took quite awhile for me to pull myself together emotionally. It shook me to the core. I finally had to face the fact that VPW was actually wrong about something. Later I found out that he himself had died of cancer 2 years prior.
So, yes. This doctrine did a lot of damage at least to me and I would imagine lot of other people. It makes sense, but I wasn't aware that others were blamed for VP's illness, that is, outside of POP. I think I heard somewhere that the in-residence Corps at the time was yelled at for allowing the MOG to die "on their watch". Is that true?
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frank123lol
All I heard was in ac for grads 95 Rome city,Uncle howard said we killed dr wierwillie,
He died of a broken heart.What a guilt trip.He lost his best friend because we were not believing
for poor old herr wiereillie.Maybe if he (wierwillie) had not smoked and drank so much he would lived longer.
No mention was made od cancer till I came to greasespot.
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Tzaia
VPW died about a month after I had cancer surgery. My family had to come in from out of town and help with my kids as no one from TWI was "available" to help. Fortunately, no one from TWI came right out and told me I was possessed; they just stayed away.
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Broken Arrow
That's awful! I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way and that was wrong.
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Tzaia
I know it was wrong, but it turned out for the best. After that, when someone attempted to tell me that TWI was my "real" family, I could say no without a trace of doubt. I knew who my real family was, and it was no one in TWI.
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Twinky
It's ironic that we were all supposed to be responsible for ourselves, our own actions, our believing...
...and suddenly the rank and file is responsible for VPW's believing as well...? huh??
Nothing about his own personal responsibility for abusing his body with cigs and ruining his liver with too much alcohol.
Perhaps he was afflicted with a spirit of forgetfulness - he forgot that he had drunk all that alcohol. Or...a spirit of infirmity, that paralyzed his hand so that he couldn't put his hand up to (accept responsibility for) his (cough) indiscretions.
Bleeaaaah
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Watered Garden
Jeesh! This always bugs the snot out of me. Cancer is about 600 different diseases with about as many causes. Some are caused by just, well, we don't know, some are genetic, at least one is actually viral (Burkitt's lymphoma).(sp?)
I worked for 9 years in a cancer hospital, and trust me, cancer patients are patients, not possessed. Some of the bravest, funniest, most inspirational people I will ever know I met working there. God bless them every one!
I'm so sorry for all y'all went through with that bunch of uneducated zombies. It's bad enough to have something scary like cancer without having to put up with their ignorance.
WG
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HCW
I was on staff @ International HQ during the time of VPW's illness & subsequent death. TO answer your questions from my POV:
(sorry bout the length of this post - hope the background info fills in some blanks for folks)
Looking back w/ a more objective viewpoint... TWI was a total mess during this era. As the ministry grew into a multi-million $$$ corporation "leadership" guys were pretty much all lusting after the major positions. After all, the bigger your TWI post, the more power & influence. Eg: Limb leader (state "coordinators") jobs, came w/ company cars, a big house & travel/expense budget to "coordinate" your state (kingdom).
Guys wanted the big states, for obvious reasons & some maybe not so obvious.
VPW, as he got older & began the process of turning over the reigns, especially after he announced his retirement and the "search" for the next president, lost more & more "control" over how guys ran their areas. His own son Donnie ushered in the "new way" we do things, His way became "the old Way" or, as Donnie put it, "Dad's Way." There was constant bickering @ HQ around the concept of "we don't do it that way anymore."
People began to assume that the bigger the position, the "more spiritual" they were. They were constantly "over spiritualizing" stuff, hurting people and using position to bend people to their own will. All was done in the name of God, Jesus, and of course, VPW. That stuff helped inspire the leadership terminology change from "Leader," as in Region, Limb, Branch or Twig, to "Coordinator." The Trustees had simply lost control & they knew it. They were trying to reign "leadership" in at the same time "leadership" was setting up their own little & some big, "kingdoms."
All of us who actually knew VPW & had known him for a long time (especially the locals) understood that whereas he was capable of being "really great" he was a completely high strung, head strong loose cannon who would say & do "all kinds of stuff." Yes, some it it was really "out there" into the crazy range. (This is why they originally set TWI up w/ THREE trustees all executive decisions were decided by a 2/3 majority.) VP would say extreme & off the wall stuff so often, HQ folk were sorta used to it. We used to all be humans @ HQ before we were elevated to different levels of "gods in a stick." VP's wild foot nature was accepted as part of his humanness.
Urmal Owens was steady, patient, wise, sound thinking; a real salt of the earth kinda guy. He and Uncle Harry ( who, admittedly by VP) was the only man on the planet who could influence VP & change his mind on things. When Uncle Harry died, it hurt VP to the bone & changed him. That, in retrospect, I think was the beginning of the end for VP (in quite a few ways), Harry was his big brother, his backbone, and in many was, his conscience. Harry & Ermal were the behind the scenes guys who stabilized the early growth of TWI & did the "heavy lifting" at the major leadership level to build TWI through its infancy.
How does all this speak to your question above? Well... It was basically LCM & Howard Allen who put out the BS that "it was you believers' fault" that VPW died. As with all of the best lies, there was a measure of truth to it. VP actually did "die of a broken heart." Of course it wasn't the literal cause of his death; (he died of Melanoma, etc.) VP's heart was broken by the fact that as he grew older & knew his days were numbered, as he looked God in the face, all he could see reflected back was his own failure. Those whom he had trusted the most to carry on the ministry had for the most part ALL betrayed him, they all wanted "the BIG position." Too many guys simply wanted the "keys to Ambassador One." They lusted after the motorcoaches, the campuses, all of the power & prestige that went w/ having the reigns over a world-wide multi million corporation where people simply gave you the $$$. The Trustees had basically agreed at that time; "you stay out of my are & I'll stay out of yours. Donnie & Howard took all of the operational business aspects of the ministry (as memory serves... Donnie took Emporia & Indiana Campus & the College program & Howard took Gunnison & LEAD) and the gave Craig free reign over the The Way Corps, Sunday Night Services, and Way Productions. The other two split up the stuff @ HQ. Basically Craig was free to run around & do "spiritual stuff" that Howard & Donnie didn't really care about.
My take on the whole deal is that I don't think VP ever got over the loss of his brother, emotionally. He basically felt betrayed by those he trusted most. Having the ministry survive to the next generation was a HUGE THING to VPW. He saw that not happenning as he'd envisioned. He was surrounded by too darn many yes men & those whose motivation was to get as much "Leadership" as they could. As they say, power corrupts, & absolute power corrupts absolutely. Vp had absolute power & with Harry gone, VP lost his "compass," and the monster that we now know as VPW went basically unfettered.
The cracks that grew into what we now call "splinter groups" started many decades ago. Vp's position allowed him the luxury of making the sometimes outlandish statements that grew into ludicrous doctrines and hideous practices. Whereas they are now widely exposed the arguments existed LOOOOOONG ago and the riffs were firmly entrenched in the ministry before the FIRST ROA in 1971. POP was only a straw that broke the camel's back. There were many things that VP had said in classes that were known to be "not particularly accurate." Whereas the veneer of VP seemed unchallenged, that was not the case behind the closed doors in the research dept. and others who were with VP basically from the start. Vp's stuff was challenged; by basically the same guys who now shout it from the rooftops, so to speak. The whole thing about cancer being a devil spirit, as time went on had less & less credence among top leadership. They basically ignored it, right along with his "...the original sin, that took place in Genesis, during the first period of man's existence on earth; the original sin was MASTURBATION...." (from the original Christian Family & Sex class.)
SAY WHAT?!!!
One prevailing foundational issue with all of the erroneous doctrine of TWI was this: For the most part when the classes were filmed, he overwhelming majority of Wafers, even the leadership simply wasn't old enough (in general) to have experienced middle aged things like "normal" health infirmities like cancer. (When I was involved, the average age of a wafer was around my age & I'm just past 50 NOW; having been out for 21 years.) Not too many of the young people challenged VP on anything back then (but there were some, even back in the 60's). For the most part folks would just parrot his stuff.
As years progresses there were a few unquestionably "believing believers" across the country & world who HQ knew had come down w/ cancer(s), strokes, miscarriages & the like, things VP has said in the Advanced Class were devil spirit influenced, or worse. Life pretty much went on as usual. We would get prayer requests and pray over them at lunch every day. When VP was healthy & in charge we'd just pray for stuff. We'd also hear about miracles on a regular basis. In the 60's & 70's VP would actually ENCOURAGE people to send their ill & infirm to HQ... to get them healed. It was common to have possessed people from the area running 'round HQ. They would invite them to a meal & cast out their spirits. In fact the locals used to complain about all the "crazies; The Way would attract them like a magnet."
HOWEVER; the advanced class teaching was still out there & when VP came down with CANCER! How could LCM say. "Hey gang, our 'Father in The Word; you know, the one who chose me as his successor... is POSSESSED, with a spirit of CANCER! In fact, he was possessed when he CHOSE ME to TAKE OVER...!!!" I don't think so. He would have sunk his presidency like a rock in a mud puddle. There wasn't a snowball's chance in hades that LCM would let that cat out of the bag. Primarily because there was already major dissent at the top (as in major Limb & above) leadership levels concerning Craig as VP's choice for Pres. There were at least three, maybe as many as five guys who all felt (and they have varying levels of support) they had a legit shot at the tip, top, spot. There were even some who felt that LCM actually should NOT have been chosen. They were only inches from rebellion. It was only the fact that we all loved & believed in VP that they only fought about it behind closed doors in the leaders meetings. There was no way Craig was givin' up his "key to the city."
So, in typical LCM fashion, he pulled a power-play... He put a major guilt trip on the believers. He was just instituting the form of BS "logic" they still use even today to manipulate people. He tried to sanctify & martyrize VP, all the while elevating himself as one who had some mysterious knowledge from God (that we all didn't & don't have access too, seeing as WE're NOT "the man of God." Part of the MOG s.o.p. is that they get revelation(s), presumably from God. VP had "sources in the know" literally all over the country & world, believers in high positions in corporations, military, government, even the professional sports world who would call him up & tell him stuff. Some of it he shared, some he didn't. Often when he shared stuff, people assumed it was "from God;" pretty much every time he'd say stuff, if he didn't mention a source (which he generally didn't) people would assume he was speaking from God's mouth to our ears. Not to defend the guy or excuse his behavior, (because I DON'T) but you gotta recognize how intoxicating that can be.
Moving right along...
Simple. You don't ream your boss, you'll get fired (and lose your kingdom).
As I said, HQ staff (at all of our locations) people were all, myself included, and to varying degrees "jockying" to hold onto our "kingdoms." As staff members, round Corps week/ROA time some people would look at us "woodgrainers" like we were MEAT, they were salivating for our spot. When I first came on staff in 1979, not too many folk wanted to work at the "Way farm." That was pre-OSC days. Then came the big building, cushy offices & most of all salaried jobs that you didn't REALLY have to be qualified for. There were relatively few people on staff who had the commensurate education/degree/experience to actually qualify for their job. In fact MOST people who had staff jobs probably would NOT have won that job "in the world" at a similar size company doing similar stuff. On the other hand I got my job @ HQ BECAUSE I had the right schooling & talent to do it. I went WOW and then into the WC to gain some spiritual & life experience to enhance my professional qualifications for my job. I'd originally applied for my spot when I was 19, in 1977. As time went on through the 80's though competition for staff job got a little stiffer, professionally, but people started thinking they could get a staff spot or even take yours if they were somehow deemed "more spiritual" than you. I knew my spot was secure though. especially as long as VP was alive. (I was the first one fired though, when LCM decided to get rid of everybody on staff who wouldn't play ball with him.)
Unfortunately, things had degraded around the ministry by that time to major politics & red tape to get things done and even get & keep your job on Staff. Who you knew established your power base & secured your spot. Some folks had worked at HQ long enough that they were a little out of touch with their industries. They feared the prospect of having to qualify for the same job outside HQ. We used to call HQ "WayWorld" because we set & maintained our our standards, regardless. Ie: We NEVER made the deadline to publish The Way Magazine (that's why you always got yours late). We did the art, we owned the press, we did the shipping... If VP our one of our "major contributors" missed a deadline... since they were "more spiritual" we be forced to alter our production schedule because they didn't get their stuff to us.
I mean....Who was "I" to tell a REGION leader (excuse me.... COORDINATOR) that if he didn't get his s#!+ together and get his article in on time for "MY" Way Mag spread "I" was designing that HIS "revelation from GOD to the believers" wouldn't get published???
That thinking was magnified to the Nth degree w/VP by then. However. When nobody was around, & it was just us I would TELL VP what to do all the time, it was my job. And when it came to my job VP would only set the general direction the rest was up to me. At first he'd tell me these crazy ideas about projects he wanted, or show up for a photo shoot in a wild outfit... & I'd look at him & shake my head, "No. We can't do that, that's not cool."
"Its not?" He'd say..
"Nope. Not even close."
Then, he's laugh that goofy laugh of his & say, "Mrs. Get the boy some milk & COOK-ies while I change my clothes. He' young, they're always hung-ry..."
I wouldn't tell him he was possessed when he was sick though.... he clearly wasn't, he was ill.
Actually, the whole M&A thing was way after VP's death. It was an LCM thing, yet another of his endless power plays. But....
YES! At mid 80's HQ there were double, triple, and a whole stinking matrix of standards that we actually operated on. We had long lost the notion of "Chapter & verse" to reign in our behavior. It was more like, may the biggest stick win, in the name of Jesus Christ - that is. Honestly speaking, my "power base" came from Donnie W, (BOT) Bob W!%garner (President's cabinet) and VPW himself. Plus the fact that I was a "semi-old timer." I would constantly shut people up by saying stuff like, "I know what VP actually said about that because I was there when he said it..." I had worked w/ VP on his personal projects from 1979 until he died. If anybody got wrong w/me I could simply go to VP and trump anybody.
In fact. Mrs VPW & Emogene Allen sorta adopted me when I came on staff cause I was only a few months past 21 and far away from home. I used to run twig in the basement of the Wierwille home & Mrs VP was our snack coordinator. We'd sit for hours & hours in their basement talking & she'd pull out their private family photo albums. She showed me/us pictures that were never published in anything of their famed trip to India (from PFAL). I've seen before & after pictures of the "man with the withered arm" ... he was waving it! I used to babysit the Allen boys & the Wierwille grandchildren & was one of their children's fellowship teachers & was around so much taking pictures at their family gatherings I was almost like one of them. VP saw my name on a list of WC needing sponsorship to graduate & paid off the last part of my tuition himself. I used to drive him & his guests in his Lincoln on special event weekends when he was in town & hang out with him tinkering on his Harleys in the shop in the courtyard. He was like a grandfather to me. Even long after I was M&A I called Mrs. W and came & had tea w/ her, on her porch... for old time's sake... no security escort in or out.
All that being said. It actually WAS his fault. He was at the helm, knew it wasn't gonna make it he knew he'd messed it up & it broke his heart that it all went down like it did.
Broke my heart too.
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Tzaia
So he knew it was going down the tube...
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Oakspear
HCW:
Your posts are always enlightening bro'...thanks for sharing
What I get out of what you posted was that TWI was a business; the business may have been pushing a particular biblical-spiritual viewpoint, but it was a business just the same, with jockeying for power, self-serving actions, politics and back-stabbing. So many of us thought it was purely a spiritual enterprise, ordained in some fashion by God, that it was a body blow to our worldview when the curtain was pulled aside and we saw who the "Great and Terrible Oz" really was.
Part of what tied TWI up in knots after Wierwille died was the crazy stuff that he said and did that was regarded by some as just as good as God saying it. The contradictions came home to roost.
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skyrider
Yeah.....it WAS his fault that the "ministry" went down in flames.
Along with H.E.'s death in the fall of 1977......Ermal died in July of 1979.
In Feb/Mar of 1982, vpw ordained Cgeer and sent him to Europe. Clearly, the ultra-egos of Geer and Martindale could NOT be on the same continent together. Geer became the European Coordinator and the European Corps Coordinator along with a dozen other responsibilities. It didn't take but a few months and Cgeer was dictating policy of what "his" European corps would and wouldn't do.
IMO....wierwille had lost the respect of many of his clergy by 1979/1980.
Wierwille had grandeoise "visions".....but many in upper leadership were only counting the days until he retired. All those camp gunnison visions and sunset corps claims........never happened.
Wierwille had become marginalized by 1980......his entourage was falling by the wayside. His Ambassador One pilot abruptly quit and left, a couple of bodyguard guys were publicly scolded and fired, and more than likely.....years of heavy smoking and alcoholism were catching up to his 63 year old body.
Lots of things.
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waysider
In 1976, the Fellow Laborers of Ohio were rousted in the middle of the night for an emergency meeting. (I'm not the only GSC poster who was in that meeting.) The mood of the meeting was intensely dark and demoralizing. We were told that "the ministry" was going down the tubes and Word Over The World was in jeopardy because of--------US! Yep. It was all our fault. See, we were in "the birthplace of the ministry" and our believing was dragging the whole thing down the crapper.
None of us had any idea what we could have possibly done to have these charges leveled against us. It was never explained. It was all a downward spiral for us FLO from that point on. We were constantly badgered about our "lack of believing" for the rest of that year.
Years later, after looking around greasespot a bit, I discovered that, lo and behold, this same scenario had been played out in the corps at the same point in time. We were played. This whole thing was preconceived and staged. It was nothing more than theatrics, designed to gain control of us.
Sorry, I just can't buy this whole "broken heart" nonsense now that I understand what was REALLY going on.
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HCW
I trust you understand the sarcastic overtones and that I'm using the whole "broken heart" thing figuratively. My point being that now, after I've had some two decades of maturity, spiritual mileage and just basic life experience to add to my person; since leaving TWI... I can more clearly see the experience, even in retrospect.
You said it buddy...now that I/we understand what was really going on... when we look back it can be so clear, IF we take our blinders and emotional projections off of the experience.
Yes. It Was Not His Fault... Oh, YES IT WAS. I saw, & knew all of the things I mentioned in my extremely long post. BUT. I saw them differently then. Now. I took great care not to say that VPW's heart was broken because they BETRAYED him.
I'm on record here saying that it was Donnie W. that took down TWI & his father VPW.... at least from the business POV. However, part of the reason I mentioned Mrs. showing us the family album from the India trip is that I also saw pictures of Donnie as a child & read the look of disappointment/anger on his face. Now that I have a son who is coming into adolescence and a College grad daughter and have experienced ALMOST losing my daughter's love & respect over a stupid bonehead decision.... I've seen the look in my children's eyes that told me, "one step further Dad & I'm lost to you...."
I pulled up. I didn't make the bonehead decision. In fact I made the BEST decision I could FOR my daughter & make the best decision(s) I can FOR my other children to reel them back into my nest, so to speak. Even if it means some sacrifice for me at that point. I "count it all but lost to gain" my child's heart.
VP gave his son, his eldest son, "the finger" and did irreparable damage to that bright young boy, who grew into a man who had a love/hate relationship with his father, VPW. VP gave his son little choice.
Donnie didn't betray his father, he REPAID him.
VP, created every crack that existed in TWI with his own hard-headed arrogance. In so doing he proved and lived the Word of God that he told us that he loved so dearly.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
"...the foolish man builds his house upon the sand..."
VPW in his years building TWI left a wake of hurt people all along the way, many who would have been capable allies, he turned them into angered enemies with a legitimate axe to grind against him.
Losing TWI was actually, in VPW's own words, "the consequences of his unbelief."
Donnie, Craig, Howard A., Chris & others simply did as they were taught and "no man can go any further than he is led."
As for Vp. "Woe be unto you, scribes, pharisees, hypocrites."
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HCW
Shooting Ermal's funeral was one of the first of the "VPW's personal projects" I'm constantly blabbering about my having done. It was during that time & some of the private moments when VP spoke his feelings; of course Ermal's death reminded him of the loss of Harry. He talked about what those guys meant to him & made some transparent "telling statements" that helped me get to know the real VP.
During the whole time he said, "I don't think I'll ever be the same without my brother Harry, now that Ermal's gone too..." then he broke up in tears a little, Then went on to say something else.
Craig had been pretty much the undisputed "alpha dog" of the the Corps, but the first few WC groups were "hippies." Kinda grungy as it were. When the 7th Corp came along HQ was abuzz about how they were the "best Corps ever," & clearly Chris was everything Craig was and more. The buzz was really similar to the sciptural account of Saul & David, where the people said, "Saul (Craig) killed his thousands, yet David (Chris) killed his ten thousands." Whereas Craig had that loveable goofy "Okie" kinda charm. CG was smooth, polished, ultra-organized & sophisticated. CG made being the "top guy" in his Corps group look easy.... whereas Craig had had to to work at it. It was obvious that "this farm ain't big enough for the both of us, dude." ... was in the air.
... so they could establish their own kingdoms
Ambassador One pilot ...is a smart guy.
I'll never forget seeing VP drunk @ staff Christmas Party that first year on staff. .. lost a lot of respect for him that day.
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skyrider
And......so did many of those 1970s region/limb guys. They REPAID wierwille with many years of devoted loyalty.....yet, covertly building regional loyalty in their "kingdoms." They, too, had learned the lessons well from wierwille.....sectioning off a power base in incremental steps. Heck, even Emogene did that right under the nose of wierwille. She wielding a massive power base at hq.....as she moved her authority into printing, shipping, receiving, warehousing, etc. She dictated policy for "her" workers and every Thursday night, "her staff" worked a mandatory shift.
The way corps program was an elitist, indoctrination program. Wierwille designed it and fueled its competitive nature. At times, wierwille pitted one leader against another.....subtly, of course. In his narcissism, he publically stroked the egos of some....only to foster more loyalty and favor from another. When I came on staff in 1978, the older good-hearted staff people were systematically being replaced by the new corps grads. Wierwille allowed it.....not taking a stand for those who had given 10-15 years of dedicated service to twi.
The clergy, as well, were NOT a collective unit. From my staff position, wierwille was above reproach and his upper tier of clergy became above reproach. Monkey see, monkey do. The high-profile clergy followed wierwille and his policies......NOT the Scriptures, not the Lord Jesus Christ. Now...now, in retrospect, it is so clear that it was a MLM structure, a business, at best. But even more.......at worse, twi was a devilish con by a false prophet whose deception base was steal, kill, and destroy. Lives were stolen from godly service, money was stolen from true community/national efforts.....goals were dashed, dreams were killed.....lives were destroyed.
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copenhagen
Great insight HCW and skyrider keep them coming..
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taxicab
I was in-residence when Haary died and of course we had 24 hours of prayer. I never understood that concept. If you talk to God once, isn't that enough, 24 hours, sleep deprivation, and he died anyway. How old was Uncle Harry when he died? It seems to me that most Wierwille's don't live into old age; they're on the short end of an American's life expectancy. It's probably a combination of bad genes as well as some poor life choices along the way.
As far as vpw dieing of a broken heart, I can't believe that for a minute. IMO, he died because he had cancer, now maybe he waited too long to go and see a doctor, I don't know. Maybe he was afraid the doctor would tell him he needed to lay off the drambuie for awhile!
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JeffSjo
I can recall many, many instances that reminds me how it feels to live in such a group where everything is blamed on everyone else besides the leader who IMHO holds almost all the accountability before God.
The content of this thread obliges me to print it out so I can go through it thoroughly.....Thank you all.
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Tzaia
I don't agree.
We are all accountable before God even in who we choose for our leaders. That is why when someone tried to tell me what they thought I needed to be doing to please God, I would ask if they would be there to vouch for me at the Bema. It was a rhetorical question. Regardless of why I make the choice, it is ultimately mine to make.
IMO, blame needs to be assigned carefully as in blaming cancer on a devil spirit. I would propose that in light of VPW's cause of death and TWI's stance on the cause of cancer, that everything he ever taught needs to be thrown out, because he was possessed.
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JeffSjo
Well I think you have a good point Tzaia, everybody should be accountable for their own actions. And no matter what the other factors are that still needs to be true.
but in my case, the leader is the one who according to true TWI style holds a stranglehold over what people do and don't believe and what people think of others within the group. And in my case I hold people responsible for their own actions on one level, like the abusive thug who in a spittle flying fit told me to "F" mY recently deceased Grandmother. And the fact that he belittled me in front of my ex-wife was very humiliating.
But from my perspective V.B. is the one who has been in control of my former splinter group and according to the very worst of TWI style control, manipulation, and bullying techniques has made RRF a place where these Way Corps leadership techniques can thrive. The particular thug that belittled me so is the same one who was accorded the duty of informing me that I was being kicked out the very same day that he moved my wife and one year old son out of my house. And even though his acts of thuggery are very personal to me V. Barnard is the one who the RRF folks have called "the Word in the flesh."
So even though I see good sense in what you are saying Tzaia, because I've seen this very nasty little splinter group develop from the TWI split in the late eighties first and foremost according to the particular types of insanity that dwell in just one man it is still my opinion that he more than anyone else will bear the brunt of the responsibility for all the nasty, vicious, and controlling things that he and his thugs and thuggettes have done. Most of the thugs were led there by him. And he is sure to not allow anyone else to spit on anyone like he has (I mean literally hocking a lugey in a sleeping man's face.) if for no other reason than his narcissistic tendencies or his manic need to be in total control.
(edited for clarity and/or grammar)
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JeffSjo
I could liken how I consider "responsibility before God" as it pertains to a heirarchtical organization to the nazis.
Nazi extermination camp gaurds have been held accountable for their own actions but Hitler was most responsible for putting together the system that needed those guards to commit their atrocities.
In simple terms, I believe that in terms of accountability before God that sh!t actually runs uphill.
(edited for grammar and spelling)
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JeffSjo
Dear HCW,
That is some truly amazing info to me that you posted, thank you.
I can't help but consider that the things that LCM, Geer, Howard Allen, and Donnie Wierwille did were learned from VPW as much as anybody. And that when they pulled their guilt trips and power plays they were really only following in VPW's footsteps.
I have heard a lot of sharings that make it clear that in spite of VPW's charms that he was also exceedingly nasty whenever he perceived a possible threat to his power and authority here. He certainly spent a lot of time reaming those whose only crime was that with clear consciences they challenged his doctrines or did things that a narcissistic man would consider a public challenge to his status.
Any thoughts on that HCW?
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newlife
Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this ok...
I've read the POP, some time ago, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't the believers that VP blamed but instead it was the board of trustees. I think in the last part of the document, VP asked CG if they had changed and the answer was no.
Somehow I got the idea that VP thought if they had changed, if they somehow started looking at him as the MOG he was again, he could live.
Any further posts on this to clarify would be welcome....
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