I've been considering this topic for a bit. It can be summed up as looking for how I've reacted to bullying since my time in "River Road Fellowship." And as I've seen others react to TWI style bullying in many different manners since I've been here I thought I would make a couple of observations and then see where the conversation goes.
I've seen bullying here at GSC that seems very easy to deal with since "River Road Fellowship" messed up so much of my life. In most cases it has been easy to deal with here.
There have been other times when facing certain things that reminded me of the TWI style censure that I endured that have left me feeling weak and incapable of dealing with behind the back gossip, judgments and such.
OOps, I'm out of time for now. I'll try to get back later or tomorrow. Gotta go now.
Jeff
You might want to be more specific.
What sort of bullying did you see at RRF?
What sorts of things would you consider bullying at GSC?
It's easier to deal with this stuff if specifics are introduced rather than addressing "certain things".
In other words, I think it would help if you could narrow the scope a bit.
Things get done so much more efficiently without the mouth foaming. It helps me on my day job, I don't get intimidated by the tantrum throwers.
I have the happy job of dealing with escalated situations-- 'I have many resources and want to help you. To do that, I need to gather information' 'Here is what I CAN do.' 'I am trying to help you but if you continue to scream/curse I will cease our interaction.'
Many people have such fantasy expectations!
On GSC I once started a thread about bullies. It ended up in soap opera. The major bully eventually got banned. Too bad so sad. That was a long time ago.
I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
I've seen bullying here at GSC that seems very easy to deal with since "River Road Fellowship" messed up so much of my life. In most cases it has been easy to deal with here.
For me, I stopped posting for a long time or even coming here. It is very tiring when it happens. There is a lot of emotion, etc. here based on people's experiences and fairly so. Folks who come here to tell others what they should do, say or think cause me to just log out and do something else.
However, I come back because of folks like Belle, Lindy, Shellon and others who I really like. (Belle, you're awesome, IMHO!) Like anything else, I suppose, it's the good people that make things worthwhile.
I used to be a target for bullies. When I was about 15 I started fighting back, following the rules my dad laid out - Don't throw the first punch. Don't let them get up. Got pulled into the principal's office a couple of times for defending myself. Told him to call my dad, but rest assured that I wasn't going to take any crap from anyone anymore. I was tired of not being able to go to the bathroom, and if the school wasn't going to stop them, I would. That was said in front of my tormentors. From that point, my threshold for bullying was rather low.
By the time I got to TWI, I had learned to ignore or deflect.
People who do not deal well with direct people tend to go behind people's backs, they tend to gossip, and they tend to judge. There is nothing you can do to change their behavior. However, they tend to have a heightened awareness of what's "fair" for them, and little awareness that their own behavior is unfair, so getting in their face just makes things worse.
I don't personally remember getting "bullied" in TWI.
Manipulated?----You bet!
Exploited?------Ditto!
On second thought, I guess you could say some of the abuse that was dished out in Fellow Laborers was bullying. I don't respond very favorably when people try to push me around like that now. But then they usually shift gears and go into the manipulation mode,maybe even try the guilt angle. I'm a little softer touch with that stuff---sigh
The boy was in 5th grade. Sean and the boy had been in every grade together in elementary school. He announces after Valentines that Sean is mean and picks on him. How long has this been going on? Almost since the beginning of the school year. I said, well you know his parents divorce has been very nasty. I am sure this has had an affect on Sean. I think he just needs a friend and know he is loved.
A few days later...Sean doesn't aggravate me anymore. Why? What happened? When he was calling me names I just turned around... and then the boy showed me how he pursed his lips out and smooched with that smack at the end...like a kiss. Sean never bothered him after that. I never told him to do that. He just figured that out on his own. Sean has been the boys friend since then. Has been camping with us a couple of times.
It has been my experience that bullies really do need a friend and need love. With children it has everything to do with what is going on or not going on at home. They feel very unsafe and unsure of themselves....With adult bullies the last sentence is true.
I would agree, Kimberly, but would also add it's about power and control.
If the bully, child or adult, has little to no power in his/her home or other circumstances, they surely can and will get it somewhere.
For bullies like TWI and others of that nature, they can use their victims own already low self esteem/doubt/home life/circumstances to gain access to their achilles heel.
My daughter's bully in 7th grade took her as a victim because she stood up for the original victims. Which, perhaps as Jeff is suggesting here, happens frequently at places on the internet as well.
It's such a multi-faceted circle.
I have seen instances where the bully does respond favorably to care and concern, kindness and absorbs that much needed attention and love, much like your story and I love it when that happens.
Much is taught in the home. A child who is abused at home knows only that, needs a place to release his/her own anger and they certainly can not on their own bully.
In a nearby school system, there have been FIVE suicides in 2 years where the children had been bullied and finally had enough; such tragedy and,I think, so avoidable if those with the better power and control over situations had listened and believed and acted. Not to be confused with laying the blame on parents/administrators.
I lost a job due to standing up to a bully at work one time.
Dear Waterbuffalo,
One of the things I was thinking with this thread is that oftentimes when I consider how I've reacted to a situation it seems to me that I can trace my reactions to an emotional response in me that originates in the awful behavior that I received in my former splinter group.
and while it would be pointless to attempt any in-depth analysis of anyone's behavior here at GSC I thought it might be o.k. to share this so that others might see that they are not the only ones who are still carrying baggage from the old days and that it effects how they deal with certain things now.
I hope that whatever life brings you that you handle these things better. Sometimes I know that I could have handled a bully better too.
For me, I stopped posting for a long time or even coming here. It is very tiring when it happens. There is a lot of emotion, etc. here based on people's experiences and fairly so. Folks who come here to tell others what they should do, say or think cause me to just log out and do something else.
However, I come back because of folks like Belle, Lindy, Shellon and others who I really like. (Belle, you're awesome, IMHO!) Like anything else, I suppose, it's the good people that make things worthwhile.
JT
Dear JT,
I am very glad that you have found people that bless you and leave you feeling built up here at the GSC. that is always a cool thing to happen.
As a relatively new guy around here it seems that GSC is dealing much better with those who seems to have proved that their agenda was only to be obnoxious enough to chase people away from the conversations at this site. When I first got here this kind of thing was very common.
But of course some of us may have done or said the very same things at differing times only to find out that we and our bullying only served to make us tools for the manipulators that set us on this course in TWI or the splinters. and as much as anybody else we all have the right to experience a change of heart too.
And I feel that this bullying was especially damaging in that it chased away the very people who were beat up the most as a member of TWI or the splinters.
Out of the mouth of babes to my ears.
The boy was in 5th grade. Sean and the boy had been in every grade together in elementary school. He announces after Valentines that Sean is mean and picks on him. How long has this been going on? Almost since the beginning of the school year. I said, well you know his parents divorce has been very nasty. I am sure this has had an affect on Sean. I think he just needs a friend and know he is loved.
A few days later...Sean doesn't aggravate me anymore. Why? What happened? When he was calling me names I just turned around... and then the boy showed me how he pursed his lips out and smooched with that smack at the end...like a kiss. Sean never bothered him after that. I never told him to do that. He just figured that out on his own. Sean has been the boys friend since then. Has been camping with us a couple of times.
It has been my experience that bullies really do need a friend and need love. With children it has everything to do with what is going on or not going on at home. They feel very unsafe and unsure of themselves....With adult bullies the last sentence is true.
Dear Kimberly,
I really like it when that kind of thing happens, a misunderstood and hurting person who lashes out at vulnerable people has his/her heart softened....sigh. :)
But when TWI was in full swing it seems like the sociopaths in charge have to a large extent proved themselves beyond reach of this kind of thing. But I can only be certain of that because of 20-20 hindsight, you know, like who can argue with results? Although many still do I suppose.
But it also seems that others have changed......COOL.
I would agree, Kimberly, but would also add it's about power and control.
If the bully, child or adult, has little to no power in his/her home or other circumstances, they surely can and will get it somewhere.
For bullies like TWI and others of that nature, they can use their victims own already low self esteem/doubt/home life/circumstances to gain access to their achilles heel.
My daughter's bully in 7th grade took her as a victim because she stood up for the original victims. Which, perhaps as Jeff is suggesting here, happens frequently at places on the internet as well.
It's such a multi-faceted circle.
I have seen instances where the bully does respond favorably to care and concern, kindness and absorbs that much needed attention and love, much like your story and I love it when that happens.
Much is taught in the home. A child who is abused at home knows only that, needs a place to release his/her own anger and they certainly can not on their own bully.
In a nearby school system, there have been FIVE suicides in 2 years where the children had been bullied and finally had enough; such tragedy and,I think, so avoidable if those with the better power and control over situations had listened and believed and acted. Not to be confused with laying the blame on parents/administrators.
great post darlin!!!
It seems that sicko-psycho TWI style leaders have proved themselves very, very adept at finding victims' achilles heals. I can remember many times as a member of "RRF" that anybody who was seeking for things to better were only beat down by leadership casting doubt on them. And when those "RRF" victims internalized these doubt causing attacks they/we had a very, very hard time getting out from under the bully's thumb.
And I personally feel that since TWI leadership pushed people to the point where they committed suicide in despair IN GOD'S NAME that their consequences before God will be especially painful. Regular schoolyard bullies seem to me to be able to become decent people a lot easier than TWI bullies to me. I feel that is so in large part because of how sincerely caring a face they can don when it suits them, they became real pros at hiding their cruelty until it became effective in how it manipulates people.
I used to be a target for bullies. When I was about 15 I started fighting back, following the rules my dad laid out - Don't throw the first punch. Don't let them get up. Got pulled into the principal's office a couple of times for defending myself. Told him to call my dad, but rest assured that I wasn't going to take any crap from anyone anymore. I was tired of not being able to go to the bathroom, and if the school wasn't going to stop them, I would. That was said in front of my tormentors. From that point, my threshold for bullying was rather low.
By the time I got to TWI, I had learned to ignore or deflect.
People who do not deal well with direct people tend to go behind people's backs, they tend to gossip, and they tend to judge. There is nothing you can do to change their behavior. However, they tend to have a heightened awareness of what's "fair" for them, and little awareness that their own behavior is unfair, so getting in their face just makes things worse.
I think I can build on my first post a little Because of how you pointed out a difference here Tzaia.
In my face bullies or a bully who attacks others seems easy to deal with for me now, usually.
But backbiting, gossipy stuff sometimes leaves me feeling weak and even beaten.
I think for me that is because a large part of the meat grinder I went through in "RRF" was based on this kind of stuff. The manipulation of peoples' opinions, heck, even my ex-wife's. Most everyone can relate to these kinds of things in some way I suppose. But as much as I would tend to say or yell, "I don't care what you think of me!" I also remember that RRF"s manipulation of what people think caused me a lot of grief and cost me a lot too. So, personally, these types of things are harder on me and harder to deal with.
But backbiting, gossipy stuff sometimes leaves me feeling weak and even beaten.
I think for me that is because a large part of the meat grinder I went through in "RRF" was based on this kind of stuff. The manipulation of peoples' opinions, heck, even my ex-wife's. Most everyone can relate to these kinds of things in some way I suppose. But as much as I would tend to say or yell, "I don't care what you think of me!" I also remember that RRF"s manipulation of what people think caused me a lot of grief and cost me a lot too. So, personally, these types of things are harder on me and harder to deal with.
Everyone, to a certain extent, is a manipulator of opinions.
Having said that, I know it's hard to stand by and let people gossip and backbite about you, but it happens all the time. I have found it helpful to believe that anyone who engages in that behavior to my detriment, probably shouldn't have a place in my world. I am saddened that they choose to do that, but the reality is that I can't fix it beyond not giving them any reason to talk. This is frustrating because I really like having the last word.
I don't personally remember getting "bullied" in TWI.
Manipulated?----You bet!
Exploited?------Ditto!
. . .
Does the wooden spoon count as bullying?
twi followers do what they believe they can get away with. As I grew bigger techniques changed - but stayed the same. What used to be wooden sticks, arm and neck twisting is now occasional letters and phone calls, that I can burn or hang up on.
. . . oh wait, if you say the wrong thing there are still a few out there ready to "throw down"
Looking back over my adult life, I think I've been the ideal target for bullying, especially the more subtle kind that slowly eats away at my self-esteem until I will do ANYTHING to get the abuse to stop. At least, until we were told to "get rid of" our son. The bullying stopped there.
Now, especially after severing ourselves from the latest church plant disaster, I can smell a load of theological BS 320 miles away and I am very, very cautious about involvement in any church, ministry, or anything else. I know what's right for me and that is what I will pursue.
I grew big brass ones. I don't let people intimidate me anymore and I've become very very good at covering my arse. I've gotten very good at looking people in the eye and telling them exactly what I'm thinking - whether they want to hear it or not. (Don't take this that I'm nasty - just know myself now, I guess, and won't go thru that again!)
Everyone, to a certain extent, is a manipulator of opinions.
Having said that, I know it's hard to stand by and let people gossip and backbite about you, but it happens all the time. I have found it helpful to believe that anyone who engages in that behavior to my detriment, probably shouldn't have a place in my world. I am saddened that they choose to do that, but the reality is that I can't fix it beyond not giving them any reason to talk. This is frustrating because I really like having the last word.
One of the things that made my former splinter group terrible was how it was run left no room for anyone to have an opinion that did not glorify the leader. And when folks' opinions are managed in such a direct manner it often and rightly seemed that every concern I voiced was automatically considered heresy. So having my own thoughts and opinions were considered to be an attack on "the unity of the spirit", the loyalty that we were taught was owed to the false apostle, and a danger to anyone in the group.
So while they learned to not confront me directly the judgemental, hypocritical, and behind my back judgments were still very harmful to me. I guess that is why these types of situations cause me to feel uneasy, sometimes even when that cruel and thoughtless behavior does not have nearly the potential to directly hurt me.
Looking back over my adult life, I think I've been the ideal target for bullying, especially the more subtle kind that slowly eats away at my self-esteem until I will do ANYTHING to get the abuse to stop. At least, until we were told to "get rid of" our son. The bullying stopped there.
Now, especially after severing ourselves from the latest church plant disaster, I can smell a load of theological BS 320 miles away and I am very, very cautious about involvement in any church, ministry, or anything else. I know what's right for me and that is what I will pursue.
WG
The bullying you feel the most susceptible to seems to be an especially insidious kind of control.
I can relate to your caution too. The one church I was briefly invoved with in this very same small Wisconsin town that I am in today had some really twisted control issues and behind the back stuff going on too.
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waysider
Jeff
You might want to be more specific.
What sort of bullying did you see at RRF?
What sorts of things would you consider bullying at GSC?
It's easier to deal with this stuff if specifics are introduced rather than addressing "certain things".
In other words, I think it would help if you could narrow the scope a bit.
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Bramble
Things get done so much more efficiently without the mouth foaming. It helps me on my day job, I don't get intimidated by the tantrum throwers.
I have the happy job of dealing with escalated situations-- 'I have many resources and want to help you. To do that, I need to gather information' 'Here is what I CAN do.' 'I am trying to help you but if you continue to scream/curse I will cease our interaction.'
Many people have such fantasy expectations!
On GSC I once started a thread about bullies. It ended up in soap opera. The major bully eventually got banned. Too bad so sad. That was a long time ago.
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waterbuffalo
How do I respond to bullying now? Not well.
I lost a job due to standing up to a bully at work one time.
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Shellon
I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
Elie Wiesel
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George Aar
I generally have two words for anybody who chooses to "get in my face" about much of anything anymore.
No, not "Let's Dance!"
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JustThinking
For me, I stopped posting for a long time or even coming here. It is very tiring when it happens. There is a lot of emotion, etc. here based on people's experiences and fairly so. Folks who come here to tell others what they should do, say or think cause me to just log out and do something else.
However, I come back because of folks like Belle, Lindy, Shellon and others who I really like. (Belle, you're awesome, IMHO!) Like anything else, I suppose, it's the good people that make things worthwhile.
JT
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Shellon
Thanks, just thinking, compliments like that make me want to stick around maybe.
:)
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frank123lol
I hope you do,I need many voices of reason.
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geisha779
Shellon,
I love your posts. I am actually a fan. . . .
Hey, my kid posted a new song on My Space (this is me being creative in getting in touch :) ) when you get a minute check it out.
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Tzaia
I used to be a target for bullies. When I was about 15 I started fighting back, following the rules my dad laid out - Don't throw the first punch. Don't let them get up. Got pulled into the principal's office a couple of times for defending myself. Told him to call my dad, but rest assured that I wasn't going to take any crap from anyone anymore. I was tired of not being able to go to the bathroom, and if the school wasn't going to stop them, I would. That was said in front of my tormentors. From that point, my threshold for bullying was rather low.
By the time I got to TWI, I had learned to ignore or deflect.
People who do not deal well with direct people tend to go behind people's backs, they tend to gossip, and they tend to judge. There is nothing you can do to change their behavior. However, they tend to have a heightened awareness of what's "fair" for them, and little awareness that their own behavior is unfair, so getting in their face just makes things worse.
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waysider
I don't personally remember getting "bullied" in TWI.
Manipulated?----You bet!
Exploited?------Ditto!
On second thought, I guess you could say some of the abuse that was dished out in Fellow Laborers was bullying. I don't respond very favorably when people try to push me around like that now. But then they usually shift gears and go into the manipulation mode,maybe even try the guilt angle. I'm a little softer touch with that stuff---sigh
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Shellon
Thank you, Geisha. I closed my myspace account, so please PM me the link to your kid's song there and I'd love to listen !
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Shellon
My apologies, I didn't mean to turn this into a 'I'm leaving the joint'. That's not the case and I see, now, how it might look like that.
I just meant to say that it's nice, around here, to get compliments once in awhile; encourages one to continue to stick around.
Back to the program......
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JustThinking
Oh, good.
JT
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kimberly
Out of the mouth of babes to my ears.
The boy was in 5th grade. Sean and the boy had been in every grade together in elementary school. He announces after Valentines that Sean is mean and picks on him. How long has this been going on? Almost since the beginning of the school year. I said, well you know his parents divorce has been very nasty. I am sure this has had an affect on Sean. I think he just needs a friend and know he is loved.
A few days later...Sean doesn't aggravate me anymore. Why? What happened? When he was calling me names I just turned around... and then the boy showed me how he pursed his lips out and smooched with that smack at the end...like a kiss. Sean never bothered him after that. I never told him to do that. He just figured that out on his own. Sean has been the boys friend since then. Has been camping with us a couple of times.
It has been my experience that bullies really do need a friend and need love. With children it has everything to do with what is going on or not going on at home. They feel very unsafe and unsure of themselves....With adult bullies the last sentence is true.
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Shellon
I would agree, Kimberly, but would also add it's about power and control.
If the bully, child or adult, has little to no power in his/her home or other circumstances, they surely can and will get it somewhere.
For bullies like TWI and others of that nature, they can use their victims own already low self esteem/doubt/home life/circumstances to gain access to their achilles heel.
My daughter's bully in 7th grade took her as a victim because she stood up for the original victims. Which, perhaps as Jeff is suggesting here, happens frequently at places on the internet as well.
It's such a multi-faceted circle.
I have seen instances where the bully does respond favorably to care and concern, kindness and absorbs that much needed attention and love, much like your story and I love it when that happens.
Much is taught in the home. A child who is abused at home knows only that, needs a place to release his/her own anger and they certainly can not on their own bully.
In a nearby school system, there have been FIVE suicides in 2 years where the children had been bullied and finally had enough; such tragedy and,I think, so avoidable if those with the better power and control over situations had listened and believed and acted. Not to be confused with laying the blame on parents/administrators.
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JeffSjo
Dear Waterbuffalo,
One of the things I was thinking with this thread is that oftentimes when I consider how I've reacted to a situation it seems to me that I can trace my reactions to an emotional response in me that originates in the awful behavior that I received in my former splinter group.
and while it would be pointless to attempt any in-depth analysis of anyone's behavior here at GSC I thought it might be o.k. to share this so that others might see that they are not the only ones who are still carrying baggage from the old days and that it effects how they deal with certain things now.
I hope that whatever life brings you that you handle these things better. Sometimes I know that I could have handled a bully better too.
Dear JT,
I am very glad that you have found people that bless you and leave you feeling built up here at the GSC. that is always a cool thing to happen.
As a relatively new guy around here it seems that GSC is dealing much better with those who seems to have proved that their agenda was only to be obnoxious enough to chase people away from the conversations at this site. When I first got here this kind of thing was very common.
But of course some of us may have done or said the very same things at differing times only to find out that we and our bullying only served to make us tools for the manipulators that set us on this course in TWI or the splinters. and as much as anybody else we all have the right to experience a change of heart too.
And I feel that this bullying was especially damaging in that it chased away the very people who were beat up the most as a member of TWI or the splinters.
Dear Kimberly,
I really like it when that kind of thing happens, a misunderstood and hurting person who lashes out at vulnerable people has his/her heart softened....sigh. :)
But when TWI was in full swing it seems like the sociopaths in charge have to a large extent proved themselves beyond reach of this kind of thing. But I can only be certain of that because of 20-20 hindsight, you know, like who can argue with results? Although many still do I suppose.
But it also seems that others have changed......COOL.
great post darlin!!!
It seems that sicko-psycho TWI style leaders have proved themselves very, very adept at finding victims' achilles heals. I can remember many times as a member of "RRF" that anybody who was seeking for things to better were only beat down by leadership casting doubt on them. And when those "RRF" victims internalized these doubt causing attacks they/we had a very, very hard time getting out from under the bully's thumb.
And I personally feel that since TWI leadership pushed people to the point where they committed suicide in despair IN GOD'S NAME that their consequences before God will be especially painful. Regular schoolyard bullies seem to me to be able to become decent people a lot easier than TWI bullies to me. I feel that is so in large part because of how sincerely caring a face they can don when it suits them, they became real pros at hiding their cruelty until it became effective in how it manipulates people.
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JeffSjo
I think I can build on my first post a little Because of how you pointed out a difference here Tzaia.
In my face bullies or a bully who attacks others seems easy to deal with for me now, usually.
But backbiting, gossipy stuff sometimes leaves me feeling weak and even beaten.
I think for me that is because a large part of the meat grinder I went through in "RRF" was based on this kind of stuff. The manipulation of peoples' opinions, heck, even my ex-wife's. Most everyone can relate to these kinds of things in some way I suppose. But as much as I would tend to say or yell, "I don't care what you think of me!" I also remember that RRF"s manipulation of what people think caused me a lot of grief and cost me a lot too. So, personally, these types of things are harder on me and harder to deal with.
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Tzaia
Everyone, to a certain extent, is a manipulator of opinions.
Having said that, I know it's hard to stand by and let people gossip and backbite about you, but it happens all the time. I have found it helpful to believe that anyone who engages in that behavior to my detriment, probably shouldn't have a place in my world. I am saddened that they choose to do that, but the reality is that I can't fix it beyond not giving them any reason to talk. This is frustrating because I really like having the last word.
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Bolshevik
Does the wooden spoon count as bullying?
twi followers do what they believe they can get away with. As I grew bigger techniques changed - but stayed the same. What used to be wooden sticks, arm and neck twisting is now occasional letters and phone calls, that I can burn or hang up on.
. . . oh wait, if you say the wrong thing there are still a few out there ready to "throw down"
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Watered Garden
Looking back over my adult life, I think I've been the ideal target for bullying, especially the more subtle kind that slowly eats away at my self-esteem until I will do ANYTHING to get the abuse to stop. At least, until we were told to "get rid of" our son. The bullying stopped there.
Now, especially after severing ourselves from the latest church plant disaster, I can smell a load of theological BS 320 miles away and I am very, very cautious about involvement in any church, ministry, or anything else. I know what's right for me and that is what I will pursue.
WG
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ChasUFarley
I grew big brass ones. I don't let people intimidate me anymore and I've become very very good at covering my arse. I've gotten very good at looking people in the eye and telling them exactly what I'm thinking - whether they want to hear it or not. (Don't take this that I'm nasty - just know myself now, I guess, and won't go thru that again!)
Maybe I owe them a thank you note...
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JeffSjo
One of the things that made my former splinter group terrible was how it was run left no room for anyone to have an opinion that did not glorify the leader. And when folks' opinions are managed in such a direct manner it often and rightly seemed that every concern I voiced was automatically considered heresy. So having my own thoughts and opinions were considered to be an attack on "the unity of the spirit", the loyalty that we were taught was owed to the false apostle, and a danger to anyone in the group.
So while they learned to not confront me directly the judgemental, hypocritical, and behind my back judgments were still very harmful to me. I guess that is why these types of situations cause me to feel uneasy, sometimes even when that cruel and thoughtless behavior does not have nearly the potential to directly hurt me.
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JeffSjo
The bullying you feel the most susceptible to seems to be an especially insidious kind of control.
I can relate to your caution too. The one church I was briefly invoved with in this very same small Wisconsin town that I am in today had some really twisted control issues and behind the back stuff going on too.
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