I sometimes think.....the pfal class had little snippets that disarmed our critical thinking skills and stopped us from voicing (murmuring) discontent, negatives, etc.
Snippets like....."The critics have to attack the man of God because they can't touch the Word."
.................."...some people don't like my shirt, my tie...pretty soon we get down to the bare facts"
.................."I'd want to read it word for word, line by line before I'd think of calling the Apostle Paul a sex pervert.
With red flags flying, we refused to SEE THE OBVIOUS.
holy crap is right Bolshevik, I hadn't connected those dots as of yet.
But I have been feeling sorrow for those who can not even admit to thinking that Wierwille was a perv and a predator because he was built into their faith as some kind of foundational piece in their thinking.
It seems to me that the very, very best he can hope for is being burned up as some kind of hay or stubble in that day.
But I think that there are still folks for whom Wierwille, the legend, is so deeply ingrained into their faith that they can not even listen to his lewdness without feeling their faith is being attacked and undermined. Heck, that might have been me not too long ago.....hhhmmm.
That stuff was actually in the class? Foundational? Intermediate? I was twelve or so and kinda just went cross-eyed and tuned out, it was so boring. I shoulda listened to hear those lines. (Course after I'd say "Four crucified. In my twelve years of existance, I've never heard something so amazing." )
Just so ya'll know, someone will come later on and say I made it all up . . . don't say I didn't warn you . . .
VP had only about ten good years, from when TWI started to grow around 1972 to when he passed the reins to martindale and started to die of cancer (an 18 month process). Had he lived longer, more things would have come out, as they did with other cult leaders like Joe Smith (Mormon). It also takes time for writers to gather and publish the information, which brings things more into the public view than talk does. With talk, people always wonder if it's just rumor.
As a writer, one has to be careful what you publish. Accusations of sexual indiscretions are hot potatoes, especially when some of them could be grounds for lawsuits or criminal actions (as some were). It's too easy to be accused of, or have a lawsuit filed against you for, slander. This happens even today when there ae lots of testimonies of vp's sin and abuse of power.
Publishers are especially hesitant when vpw and his brother (or son or best friend, who may be getting sexual perks too) have complete control over millions of twi's dollars and no accountability or transparency whatsover in how they use the money.
But most of all, people are gullible when it come to charlatans like vp, and he set up a cultic structure which turns the Leaders ("The Teacher")into gods.
I can understand why folks that have been involved have a carefully built-into-them blind spot. Such things have been done to people fairly regularly throughout history. William Tyndale even once spoke of those of whom he would be better off trying to persuade a post than to continue to pluck that folly from their brains.....sigh.
I can understand how Wierwille has his cronies become a network of enablers or fellow pervs. This has happened fairly regularly throughout history too.
I can understand why TWI deliberately includes the threat of lawsuits in it's arsenal. But I am sickened by how they twist scriptures to prevent well meaning folks from going after them while they themselves are just as narrow minded and vindictive as the very worst of any selfish, self centered TWIts.
I can understand why some gentle and kind people would feel that the guilty verdicts weren't worth going after with everything they had, both from the perspective of what it may cost them and what they themselves might become.
I can even understand why some former TWI leadership may unfortunately have encouraged folks to not engage TWI by going after justice in the court system.
Butwhat I do not understand is why more fellow pervs and enablers have not come clean about it all. I think it just makes it more likely for the TWIts to fool more people with their b.s. IMO a guilty verdict might have made a real difference.
Butwhat I do not understand is why more fellow pervs and enablers have not come clean about it all. I think it just makes it more likely for the TWIts to fool more people with their b.s. IMO a guilty verdict might have made a real difference.
Not posted here before, but here we go. I was in the Way in Great Britain in the late 70's to the early 80's. I met VPW on several of his visits, culminating in my deciding to go WOW. I'd had many health issues when I was very young, and the only treatment eventually caused severe deafness as a side-effect of the medication. I had several "great men of Gof" minister to me, without success, and this failure was always placed squarely back on the person being ministered to; we didn't believe hard enough, we had doubts, we didn't have our needs & wants in paralel. Whenever something didn't quite match up, or seemed a little "off" it was purely our fault for not having our minds right. Eventually you develop blinders; anything that you see or hear that didn't quite match up with the teaching, why, it was because I didn't have my mind right; it was MY fault. I've carried that kind of paramoia into my 40's. There's always that niggling wonder if something stinks, or if I'm not thinking things thru properly.
I bitterly regret getting involved with this bunch of shysters; there were so many wonderful people at fellowships, and we were all getting conned blind......So much wasted years and potential.
That nagging feeling that, somehow, "it must of been your own fault"----------It's so liberating to finally realize the whole thing was a sham----It wasn't your fault at all.
That nagging feeling that, somehow, "it must of been your own fault"----------It's so liberating to finally realize the whole thing was a sham----It wasn't your fault at all.
Care for a spot on the house?
Why, thank you. White with one sugar lump, please. I go get some cookies............
Not posted here before, but here we go. I was in the Way in Great Britain in the late 70's to the early 80's. I met VPW on several of his visits, culminating in my deciding to go WOW. I'd had many health issues when I was very young, and the only treatment eventually caused severe deafness as a side-effect of the medication. I had several "great men of Gof" minister to me, without success, and this failure was always placed squarely back on the person being ministered to; we didn't believe hard enough, we had doubts, we didn't have our needs & wants in paralel. Whenever something didn't quite match up, or seemed a little "off" it was purely our fault for not having our minds right. Eventually you develop blinders; anything that you see or hear that didn't quite match up with the teaching, why, it was because I didn't have my mind right; it was MY fault. I've carried that kind of paramoia into my 40's. There's always that niggling wonder if something stinks, or if I'm not thinking things thru properly.
I bitterly regret getting involved with this bunch of shysters; there were so many wonderful people at fellowships, and we were all getting conned blind......So much wasted years and potential.
I hear you Kaptain, welcome to the Greasespot cafe.
I hope that you are doing well in spite of these things.
Recommended Posts
JeffSjo
holy crap is right Bolshevik, I hadn't connected those dots as of yet.
But I have been feeling sorrow for those who can not even admit to thinking that Wierwille was a perv and a predator because he was built into their faith as some kind of foundational piece in their thinking.
It seems to me that the very, very best he can hope for is being burned up as some kind of hay or stubble in that day.
But I think that there are still folks for whom Wierwille, the legend, is so deeply ingrained into their faith that they can not even listen to his lewdness without feeling their faith is being attacked and undermined. Heck, that might have been me not too long ago.....hhhmmm.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
That stuff was actually in the class? Foundational? Intermediate? I was twelve or so and kinda just went cross-eyed and tuned out, it was so boring. I shoulda listened to hear those lines. (Course after I'd say "Four crucified. In my twelve years of existance, I've never heard something so amazing."
)
Just so ya'll know, someone will come later on and say I made it all up . . . don't say I didn't warn you . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
course you go right up to folks still standing an they'll tell you "Oh, those rumors have been around since the seventies"
I don't feel bad for them at all. Not anymore. It's too late, they are equals with Wierwille.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Probably quite a few folks that are his equal Bolshevik.
But ignorance can leave some with clear consciences still. I try not to use too broad a brush.
I may have missed and even ignored much over the years.
But when I heard it for the first time right hear at GSC, I mean REALLY heard it, a lot changed for me very quickly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Well, they might have a point------if they were, in fact, only rumors.
But, what they are really saying is "I have KNOWN about it since the 1970's and I choose to ignore it."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
that's the way I done sees it.
mumble grumble mumble grumble . . .so on and so forth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johnj
VP had only about ten good years, from when TWI started to grow around 1972 to when he passed the reins to martindale and started to die of cancer (an 18 month process). Had he lived longer, more things would have come out, as they did with other cult leaders like Joe Smith (Mormon). It also takes time for writers to gather and publish the information, which brings things more into the public view than talk does. With talk, people always wonder if it's just rumor.
As a writer, one has to be careful what you publish. Accusations of sexual indiscretions are hot potatoes, especially when some of them could be grounds for lawsuits or criminal actions (as some were). It's too easy to be accused of, or have a lawsuit filed against you for, slander. This happens even today when there ae lots of testimonies of vp's sin and abuse of power.
Publishers are especially hesitant when vpw and his brother (or son or best friend, who may be getting sexual perks too) have complete control over millions of twi's dollars and no accountability or transparency whatsover in how they use the money.
But most of all, people are gullible when it come to charlatans like vp, and he set up a cultic structure which turns the Leaders ("The Teacher")into gods.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I can understand why folks that have been involved have a carefully built-into-them blind spot. Such things have been done to people fairly regularly throughout history. William Tyndale even once spoke of those of whom he would be better off trying to persuade a post than to continue to pluck that folly from their brains.....sigh.
I can understand how Wierwille has his cronies become a network of enablers or fellow pervs. This has happened fairly regularly throughout history too.
I can understand why TWI deliberately includes the threat of lawsuits in it's arsenal. But I am sickened by how they twist scriptures to prevent well meaning folks from going after them while they themselves are just as narrow minded and vindictive as the very worst of any selfish, self centered TWIts.
I can understand why some gentle and kind people would feel that the guilty verdicts weren't worth going after with everything they had, both from the perspective of what it may cost them and what they themselves might become.
I can even understand why some former TWI leadership may unfortunately have encouraged folks to not engage TWI by going after justice in the court system.
Butwhat I do not understand is why more fellow pervs and enablers have not come clean about it all. I think it just makes it more likely for the TWIts to fool more people with their b.s. IMO a guilty verdict might have made a real difference.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Life is about passing the buck.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
or more about making one. Or maintaining power over people, when one's past highly disqualifies them..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kaptainkremen
Not posted here before, but here we go. I was in the Way in Great Britain in the late 70's to the early 80's. I met VPW on several of his visits, culminating in my deciding to go WOW. I'd had many health issues when I was very young, and the only treatment eventually caused severe deafness as a side-effect of the medication. I had several "great men of Gof" minister to me, without success, and this failure was always placed squarely back on the person being ministered to; we didn't believe hard enough, we had doubts, we didn't have our needs & wants in paralel. Whenever something didn't quite match up, or seemed a little "off" it was purely our fault for not having our minds right. Eventually you develop blinders; anything that you see or hear that didn't quite match up with the teaching, why, it was because I didn't have my mind right; it was MY fault. I've carried that kind of paramoia into my 40's. There's always that niggling wonder if something stinks, or if I'm not thinking things thru properly.
I bitterly regret getting involved with this bunch of shysters; there were so many wonderful people at fellowships, and we were all getting conned blind......So much wasted years and potential.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Welcome aboard, kaptain k.
That nagging feeling that, somehow, "it must of been your own fault"----------It's so liberating to finally realize the whole thing was a sham----It wasn't your fault at all.
Care for a spot on the house?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kaptainkremen
Why, thank you. White with one sugar lump, please. I go get some cookies............
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I hear you Kaptain, welcome to the Greasespot cafe.
I hope that you are doing well in spite of these things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.