No matter how often wierwille-apologists heap praise upon wierwille and "his" pfal class.....I can't help but think, "Yeah, but every subsequent class and program led to dependence on twi and control from a multi-leveled bureacracy of its own making." The corps program was wierwille's endgame.........wierwille's brainchild for an army of followers who would serve twi as instructors of pfal classes. Even the ideal "twig fellowship" was a side-show that would be supported and sustained by pfal promotion and involvement.
I think we can trace the vicster's despotic tendencies back to 1942. Maybe even earlier.. in his interview with Whiteside, he describes crying his little eyes out and telling "god" if he didn't give him something he didn't have to back down on, that he could take his religion and stick it somewhere else..
I don't remember ever seeing him in the position where he "backed down" on ANYTHING.. maybe someone else has..
who knows.. maybe he made some kind of "deal" with a different kind of entity in the office across from the gas pumps..
IMO, The Way Corps could have been a good thing, but it was poorly executed.
Too much responsibility was delegated to too many people, too fast. Those people were too inexperienced and had too little training, education, and supervison.
I think instead of letting the program grow slowly and naturally, VP et al saw it as a cash cow and pushed to get as many people signed up as possible. It was sold as a program for people with natural leadership ability who wanted to serve God and God's people. Instead it became a program for anyone who could "get their sponsorhip together," and it attracted many people who, under the self-delusion of "running to serve" were running to climb the twi ladder.
There were plenty of people in the Corps who didn't have a thimbleful of leadership ability, natural or otherwise, and who were extremely immature, in years and in spiritual awareness. They went out "on the field" and ordered people around, broke up thriving fellowships, and made a general mess of things.
I have a hunch that if VPW had allowed George Je$$, a quiet, humble, wise man, to continue to oversee the Corps program, it might have turned out a lot differently. Instead he put wet-behind-the ears LCM and other equally inexperienced, big-personality people in charge of the Corps and other twi programs. Why? Because they knew how to work a crowd. Or, in the case of Ms. Rivenbark, who couldn't work a crowd of starving people if she was throwing steaks and lobsters to them, she knew how to manipulate people who could work a crowd.
THe sad thing about it is that all of it.. Way Corps, WOW program and Twigs could have been a truely remarkable thing .. (Yes I know PFAL = wrong teaching etc.. and weirwille was an egotist)
but really the reason the Corps program and WOW sold so well is that people's intent was to serve God..
unfortunately it was the wrong horse to climb onto.. but the idea itself if properly executed really would have been something remarkable if...
1. We were not out there selling a class but telling about Jesus Christ.
2. The Corps were actually properly trained and then undershepperded before being let loose.
3. Twigs were allowed to grow at their own pace and not continually broken apart.
4. The whole point of TWI and Twigs was to bring people the Good news (That Christ had died for their sins)
What sickens me is here I am 20+ years from leaving and granted the dang hit the fan after I left but I ask myself this as I read the opening post on here....(not to mention all the other abuses foisted upon some of us)
How could I have been so blind that i did not see the biggest flaw of all.
That we were selling a class and not really telling people about Gods word and about Christ. And not really teaching them how to read and study the Bible.
It was all smoke and mirrors.
I am most ashamed of that. That I was a Christian and did not recognize that TWI was not bringing people to Christ.
Edited to add... people joined because they wanted to do something special for God and for other people. to serve God and share that .and they got their whole lives twisted into knots.
IMO, The Way Corps could have been a good thing, but it was poorly executed.
Too much responsibility was delegated to too many people, too fast. Those people were too inexperienced and had too little training, education, and supervison.
I think instead of letting the program grow slowly and naturally, VP et al saw it as a cash cow and pushed to get as many people signed up as possible. It was sold as a program for people with natural leadership ability who wanted to serve God and God's people. Instead it became a program for anyone who could "get their sponsorhip together," and it attracted many people who, under the self-delusion of "running to serve" were running to climb the twi ladder.
There were plenty of people in the Corps who didn't have a thimbleful of leadership ability, natural or otherwise, and who were extremely immature, in years and in spiritual awareness. They went out "on the field" and ordered people around, broke up thriving fellowships, and made a general mess of things.
I have a hunch that if VPW had allowed George Je$$, a quiet, humble, wise man, to continue to oversee the Corps program, it might have turned out a lot differently. Instead he put wet-behind-the ears LCM and other equally inexperienced, big-personality people in charge of the Corps and other twi programs. Why? Because they knew how to work a crowd. Or, in the case of Ms. Rivenbark, who couldn't work a crowd of starving people if she was throwing steaks and lobsters to them, she knew how to manipulate people who could work a crowd.
Wierwille's corps program was not a leadership program......it was a followship program. Wierwille had no interest in raising up leaders to walk in the steps of Jesus Christ......he devised a "marine-style-follow-orders" program to graduate followers who were trained to be his pfal-class instructors.
True to his ideals, wierwille cried his eyes out over the likes of J0hnnie Towns3nd for his "follow-ship and heart to serve" the idolized pfal class. Later, J0hnnie was recognized as honorary corps.....because of his leadership? No.....because of his follow-ship.
What was wrong with wierwille's corps program?
... 1) The foundation was twi-dependency....not the author/finisher of faith, Jesus Christ.
... 2) Too vague in promotion of "serving God"......iron-clad obedience upon graduation to twi???
... 3) Corps "training" was too much rehash of pfal......far too much indoctrination.
... 4) No scope of true ministering....counseling.....relationships.....boundaries....adultery/sin.
... 5) Campus coordinators had to kowtow to wierwille's machinery of regimented control.
... 6) No individuality.....groupthink was standard operation.
... 7) Arrogant leadership monopolize lunchtime announcements during meals.
... 8) Childish songs were sung repeatedly...........subliminal dependency??
... 9) After graduation, and years later......wierwille still labeled some corps as "cop-outs"
... 10) And, besides the manipulation, intimidation, exploitation...........the SEX PREDATION.
When I take a long, hard look at the corps program..........it was a disgrace and disservice to God Almighty from the get-go. Not only was wierwille academically unqualified to oversee the training of future disciples, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and intent on preying and lusting over the females.
The corps program provided the isolation and secrecy for wierwille's sex predation that he voiced in 1969 when he went to those orgies in Haight-Ashbury. As the money poured into twi......the purchase of vp's motorcoach and far-away campuses and soldout bodyguards gave wierwille access to fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and wierwille's pride of life: POWER.
I honestly don't believe wierwille ever had any lofty or long term goals in mind.
The Corps, WOW program, Fellow Laborers, series of classes and advances were all just grease, meant to keep the ABS train on track and running on schedule. If wierwille had truly believed his efforts were the greatest thing the world had witnessed in 2,000 years, he would have sacrificed the motorcycles, the hot cars, the airplanes, the rolling bordello and everything else for the sake of his "cause". After all, that's what he expected us to do, wasn't it?
... 1) The foundation was twi-dependency....not the author/finisher of faith, Jesus Christ.
... 2) Too vague in promotion of "serving God"......iron-clad obedience upon graduation to twi???
... 3) Corps "training" was too much rehash of pfal......far too much indoctrination.
... 4) No scope of true ministering....counseling.....relationships.....boundaries....adultery/sin.
... 5) Campus coordinators had to kowtow to wierwille's machinery of regimented control.
... 6) No individuality.....groupthink was standard operation.
... 7) Arrogant leadership monopolize lunchtime announcements during meals.
... 8) Childish songs were sung repeatedly...........subliminal dependency??
... 9) After graduation, and years later......wierwille still labeled some corps as "cop-outs"
... 10) And, besides the manipulation, intimidation, exploitation...........the SEX PREDATION.
which makes me ask.. why would someone with a half a brain or conscience want to resurrect it?
The NOVICE running it considers the old corps a success..
apparently he isn't aware, or considers your observations of vic and the old corps to be of any relevance:
When I take a long, hard look at the corps program..........it was a disgrace and disservice to God Almighty from the get-go. Not only was wierwille academically unqualified to oversee the training of future disciples, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and intent on preying and lusting over the females.
The corps program provided the isolation and secrecy for wierwille's sex predation that he voiced in 1969 when he went to those orgies in Haight-Ashbury. As the money poured into twi......the purchase of vp's motorcoach and far-away campuses and soldout bodyguards gave wierwille access to fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and wierwille's pride of life: POWER.
No matter how often wierwille-apologists heap praise upon wierwille and "his" pfal class.....I can't help but think, "Yeah, but every subsequent class and program led to dependence on twi and control from a multi-leveled bureacracy of its own making." The corps program was wierwille's endgame.........wierwille's brainchild for an army of followers who would serve twi as instructors of pfal classes. Even the ideal "twig fellowship" was a side-show that would be supported and sustained by pfal promotion and involvement.
Wierwille was a narcissist....thru and thru. He never could see beyond his own self agendas.
OK. Here's the thing. How selfish does one man have to be to institute a program to require lifelong servitude to an organization that has no intentions of providing retirement benefits to it's workers? Without the workers, there would have been no Way Int. and I'm not just talking about the corps.
IMO, The Way Corps could have been a good thing, but it was poorly executed.
I,for one, am glad that it was poorly executed. I disagree that it could have been a good thing...If properly executed, it would have been a bad thing that was successful. The very premise and foundation from which the organization was based on was faulty and harmful. Law of believing??? I cannot overlook the destructive beliefs and practices of twi. Their product was bad.
As others have said, Wierwille was raising up a sales force...not Christian leadership.
I,for one, am glad that it was poorly executed. I disagree that it could have been a good thing...If properly executed, it would have been a bad thing that was successful. The very premise and foundation from which the organization was based on was faulty and harmful. Law of believing??? I cannot overlook the destructive beliefs and practices of twi. Their product was bad.
As others have said, Wierwille was raising up a sales force...not Christian leadership.
As I step back and look at the poorly executed corps program....
Wasn't wierwille the FIRST CORPS DIRECTOR and not George Jess..?? I mean, really, wierwille was the one who was initially involved with corps training and cancelling the "zero corps?" Yeah, sure.....George probably helped direct the corps to dig holes, plant trees, paint the fence, clear the woods....but wierwille taught the corps, set the guidelines and goals, etc.
IMO.....wierwille was quick to set someone else "in charge" so he could get back to "more important work" [ie 'working the word' and all]. If it was so "of God"......then WHY was it *trial and error* and slip-shod from the get-go? I mean, heck.....when men of God walked with God in the Old Testament there were PRECISE DETAILS in conquering the Philistines, or building the Temple. Yet wierwille was flying by the seat of his pants...!!!!!
Wierwille was a con-man. Wierwille was a false teacher.
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waysider
I suppose if one really wanted to, one could even find something kind to say about MUSSOLINI.
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polar bear
I agree Skyrider-
Meter? More like a Geiger counter. We all should be able to smell religion from ten miles away.
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Ham
I think we can trace the vicster's despotic tendencies back to 1942. Maybe even earlier.. in his interview with Whiteside, he describes crying his little eyes out and telling "god" if he didn't give him something he didn't have to back down on, that he could take his religion and stick it somewhere else..
I don't remember ever seeing him in the position where he "backed down" on ANYTHING.. maybe someone else has..
who knows.. maybe he made some kind of "deal" with a different kind of entity in the office across from the gas pumps..
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Linda Z
IMO, The Way Corps could have been a good thing, but it was poorly executed.
Too much responsibility was delegated to too many people, too fast. Those people were too inexperienced and had too little training, education, and supervison.
I think instead of letting the program grow slowly and naturally, VP et al saw it as a cash cow and pushed to get as many people signed up as possible. It was sold as a program for people with natural leadership ability who wanted to serve God and God's people. Instead it became a program for anyone who could "get their sponsorhip together," and it attracted many people who, under the self-delusion of "running to serve" were running to climb the twi ladder.
There were plenty of people in the Corps who didn't have a thimbleful of leadership ability, natural or otherwise, and who were extremely immature, in years and in spiritual awareness. They went out "on the field" and ordered people around, broke up thriving fellowships, and made a general mess of things.
I have a hunch that if VPW had allowed George Je$$, a quiet, humble, wise man, to continue to oversee the Corps program, it might have turned out a lot differently. Instead he put wet-behind-the ears LCM and other equally inexperienced, big-personality people in charge of the Corps and other twi programs. Why? Because they knew how to work a crowd. Or, in the case of Ms. Rivenbark, who couldn't work a crowd of starving people if she was throwing steaks and lobsters to them, she knew how to manipulate people who could work a crowd.
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leafytwiglet
THe sad thing about it is that all of it.. Way Corps, WOW program and Twigs could have been a truely remarkable thing .. (Yes I know PFAL = wrong teaching etc.. and weirwille was an egotist)
but really the reason the Corps program and WOW sold so well is that people's intent was to serve God..
unfortunately it was the wrong horse to climb onto.. but the idea itself if properly executed really would have been something remarkable if...
1. We were not out there selling a class but telling about Jesus Christ.
2. The Corps were actually properly trained and then undershepperded before being let loose.
3. Twigs were allowed to grow at their own pace and not continually broken apart.
4. The whole point of TWI and Twigs was to bring people the Good news (That Christ had died for their sins)
What sickens me is here I am 20+ years from leaving and granted the dang hit the fan after I left but I ask myself this as I read the opening post on here....(not to mention all the other abuses foisted upon some of us)
How could I have been so blind that i did not see the biggest flaw of all.
That we were selling a class and not really telling people about Gods word and about Christ. And not really teaching them how to read and study the Bible.
It was all smoke and mirrors.
I am most ashamed of that. That I was a Christian and did not recognize that TWI was not bringing people to Christ.
Edited to add... people joined because they wanted to do something special for God and for other people. to serve God and share that .and they got their whole lives twisted into knots.
Edited by leafytwigletLink to comment
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skyrider
Wierwille's corps program was not a leadership program......it was a followship program. Wierwille had no interest in raising up leaders to walk in the steps of Jesus Christ......he devised a "marine-style-follow-orders" program to graduate followers who were trained to be his pfal-class instructors.
True to his ideals, wierwille cried his eyes out over the likes of J0hnnie Towns3nd for his "follow-ship and heart to serve" the idolized pfal class. Later, J0hnnie was recognized as honorary corps.....because of his leadership? No.....because of his follow-ship.
What was wrong with wierwille's corps program?
... 1) The foundation was twi-dependency....not the author/finisher of faith, Jesus Christ.
... 2) Too vague in promotion of "serving God"......iron-clad obedience upon graduation to twi???
... 3) Corps "training" was too much rehash of pfal......far too much indoctrination.
... 4) No scope of true ministering....counseling.....relationships.....boundaries....adultery/sin.
... 5) Campus coordinators had to kowtow to wierwille's machinery of regimented control.
... 6) No individuality.....groupthink was standard operation.
... 7) Arrogant leadership monopolize lunchtime announcements during meals.
... 8) Childish songs were sung repeatedly...........subliminal dependency??
... 9) After graduation, and years later......wierwille still labeled some corps as "cop-outs"
... 10) And, besides the manipulation, intimidation, exploitation...........the SEX PREDATION.
When I take a long, hard look at the corps program..........it was a disgrace and disservice to God Almighty from the get-go. Not only was wierwille academically unqualified to oversee the training of future disciples, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and intent on preying and lusting over the females.
The corps program provided the isolation and secrecy for wierwille's sex predation that he voiced in 1969 when he went to those orgies in Haight-Ashbury. As the money poured into twi......the purchase of vp's motorcoach and far-away campuses and soldout bodyguards gave wierwille access to fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and wierwille's pride of life: POWER.
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waysider
I honestly don't believe wierwille ever had any lofty or long term goals in mind.
The Corps, WOW program, Fellow Laborers, series of classes and advances were all just grease, meant to keep the ABS train on track and running on schedule. If wierwille had truly believed his efforts were the greatest thing the world had witnessed in 2,000 years, he would have sacrificed the motorcycles, the hot cars, the airplanes, the rolling bordello and everything else for the sake of his "cause". After all, that's what he expected us to do, wasn't it?
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Ham
which makes me ask.. why would someone with a half a brain or conscience want to resurrect it?
The NOVICE running it considers the old corps a success..
apparently he isn't aware, or considers your observations of vic and the old corps to be of any relevance:
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WordWolf
When one takes a hard look at what went into it. it's obvious that the program would flop.
It was concocted by a man who had no experience whatsoever in ANY sort of training program.
It was supposedly based on the Marines-by a man with no military service and an exemption
from the draft as a minister.
It employed no experts in training for Christian ministry.
The only real training ever employed was some of the outdoors/LEAD/rockclimbing,
and the entirety of the DALE CARNEGIE SALES TRAINING.
(The only professional training the "Christian leaders" got was in SALES!!!)
Blow away all the hype, and the "successes" that DID result are the testimony
to wonderful hearts on behalf of many of the early entrants.
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waterbuffalo
OK. Here's the thing. How selfish does one man have to be to institute a program to require lifelong servitude to an organization that has no intentions of providing retirement benefits to it's workers? Without the workers, there would have been no Way Int. and I'm not just talking about the corps.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I,for one, am glad that it was poorly executed. I disagree that it could have been a good thing...If properly executed, it would have been a bad thing that was successful. The very premise and foundation from which the organization was based on was faulty and harmful. Law of believing??? I cannot overlook the destructive beliefs and practices of twi. Their product was bad.
As others have said, Wierwille was raising up a sales force...not Christian leadership.
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skyrider
As I step back and look at the poorly executed corps program....
Wasn't wierwille the FIRST CORPS DIRECTOR and not George Jess..?? I mean, really, wierwille was the one who was initially involved with corps training and cancelling the "zero corps?" Yeah, sure.....George probably helped direct the corps to dig holes, plant trees, paint the fence, clear the woods....but wierwille taught the corps, set the guidelines and goals, etc.
IMO.....wierwille was quick to set someone else "in charge" so he could get back to "more important work" [ie 'working the word' and all]. If it was so "of God"......then WHY was it *trial and error* and slip-shod from the get-go? I mean, heck.....when men of God walked with God in the Old Testament there were PRECISE DETAILS in conquering the Philistines, or building the Temple. Yet wierwille was flying by the seat of his pants...!!!!!
Wierwille was a con-man. Wierwille was a false teacher.
Could it be any more clear???????
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Tzaia
Hindsight has a certain clarity about it that foresight seems to lack.
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skyrider
Ain't that the truth....!!! :)
According to scripture, even the devil would have DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY had he had foresight..
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