Corps and Witnessing

[Bolshevik]

Some of you should really get a life. This is a pathetic topic. Does it really help you deal with your bad Way experience? 'Corpse". Pretty immature. Can't say 'Corps'? You just might do better with therapy. Still struggling to find a topic that has not been covered?

'Christians can't dance' = funny. "Rocky Horror of the Spirit" = hilarious. The forums - what is the point of some of these posts? Wow, I know bitterness can be like a sickness, but this is way over the top.

I just don't see how some of this stuff helps you 'get over it'.

Hi Waylaid,

I think it's more about dealing with future "way experiences". Making fun of them can take the sting out of future words and actions of The Way International and its supporters.

[waylaid]

Thanks, Geisha. A far better welcome than 'misguided comments, pinheaded drive-by poster and knee-jerk ignorant' comments I received from Oakspear. What was all that pent-up frustration about? I think for now I will accept your offer to stick around for a bit. I was asking an honest question and feel that perhaps I pushed some wrong buttons that offended people. I am sorry for that.

For example, I just read the 'What if LCM was president of Home Depot' thread. What's with that? To me (and I repeat, to just me) it sounds like a bunch of p*ssed off people ranting immature comments. What is the profit in that? Is that really how healing occurs? Is that how people get over things? Just asking a sincere question.

It's almost like Tourette's Syndrome is the expected cure. 'D*ckface, scumbag! VeePeePee! The Forehead! Martinpail! Corpse! Der Vey!' I'm fairly new here but, yikes!, seems like a pattern. I will admit, some of it is humorous, but you're scaring the dang out of me. Sounds like a bunch of postal workers at times (I repeat, AT TIMES).

I will go away as quickly as I came if my comments are offensive to some. No biggie. I thought we all had something in common and that's how I landed here. No other explanation. I was a brother in Christ. Don't feel it here.

JeffSio,

You are right. I apologize. I read that again and I suppose you and Oakspear both had valid points. I guess it all caught me by surprise and I should have thought it through before I sent that first post. I can see how that would sound condescending.

MAJOR APOLOGIES TO BOTH OF YOU! I pretty much meant everything else I said (I think). I am beyond certain that you will correct me if I was astray.

[JeffSjo]

Thanks, Geisha. A far better welcome than 'misguided comments, pinheaded drive-by poster and knee-jerk ignorant' comments I received from Oakspear. What was all that pent-up frustration about? I think for now I will accept your offer to stick around for a bit. I was asking an honest question and feel that perhaps I pushed some wrong buttons that offended people. I am sorry for that.

For example, I just read the 'What if LCM was president of Home Depot' thread. What's with that? To me (and I repeat, to just me) it sounds like a bunch of p*ssed off people ranting immature comments. What is the profit in that? Is that really how healing occurs? Is that how people get over things? Just asking a sincere question.

It's almost like Tourette's Syndrome is the expected cure. 'D*ckface, scumbag! VeePeePee! The Forehead! Martinpail! Corpse! Der Vey!' I'm fairly new here but, yikes!, seems like a pattern. I will admit, some of it is humorous, but you're scaring the dang out of me. Sounds like a bunch of postal workers at times (I repeat, AT TIMES).

I will go away as quickly as I came if my comments are offensive to some. No biggie. I thought we all had something in common and that's how I landed here. No other explanation. I was a brother in Christ. Don't feel it here.

JeffSio,

You are right. I apologize. I read that again and I suppose you and Oakspear both had valid points. I guess it all caught me by surprise and I should have thought it through before I sent that first post. I can see how that would sound condescending.

MAJOR APOLOGIES TO BOTH OF YOU! I pretty much meant everything else I said (I think). I am beyond certain that you will correct me if I was astray.

Your words are I'm sorry AND you liken these things to a genetic fault that leads to folks having to deal with multiple misspeaking and embarasing behavior because they are beyond there own control like Tourette's syndrome.

You seem to have a freaking long way to go before you ever help anybody with that tude WAYLAID.

But I am glad that you wish to stick around.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I thought we all had something in common and that's how I landed here. No other explanation. I was a brother in Christ. Don't feel it here.

About the only thing everyone in GS has in common is some association with TWI. Most of us are out (from very recently to decades); some are in; some have family or friends who are in. In general, you will find that most of us had bad experiences. Poking fun at TWI or its leaders is a way to release those experiences. It's also a way to warn innie "lurkers" that life in Wayworld isn't what its salesmen represent it as. At any rate, it should be no concern of yours how long someone has been posting here. If you feel you have nothing to learn or to contribute, you're free to move on. If you feel you DO have something to learn or to contribute, feel free to stay. But tone down the attitude! First impressions, and all. Didn't VP recommend How to Win Friends and Influence People? ;)

George

[waylaid]

Ouch! I'll be more careful in the future. Reproof accepted. I've actually been able to help a bunch of people, but enough about me.

But how about the 'LCM being president of the Home Depot' comment? Was that a fair opinion of mine? I really think it is a stretch to say I referred to a 'genetic fault' of the nice people here. I don't know what that was all about. But the rest of your comments were fair play. So, for my education here at the GreasespotCafe, what is up with the Home Depot post? What is to be learned, garnered, gleened from those comments? What is the message? How will that help anyone?

If you think I am being sarcastic, you are quite wrong. I made an unthoughtful comment - like Oakspear pointed out, 'knee-jerk' and I sincerely apologized. Now I am just asking a question.

[waylaid]

Gee whiz, George! I said I am sorry. VP also recommended 'The Myth of the Six Million'. 'Tone down your attitude?' Okay, Dad. Sorry to get your blood pressure up. I seriously apologized and you guys keep lobbing them over my bow.

I get that this is a very sensitive group. I will be more sensitive. You really don't have to do a 'word-study' on every thing I say. I GET IT! 'Don't make waves!'

I personally found a lot of the material here pretty offensive to people I knew and cared for. Yes, a lot of them turned out to be not as nice as I thought. It was a huge disappointment in my life to realize that. I can clearly see that a lot of folks here are close-knit and that outsiders must tread carefully. I will do so.

[Tzaia]

Ouch! I'll be more careful in the future. Reproof accepted. I've actually been able to help a bunch of people, but enough about me.

But how about the 'LCM being president of the Home Depot' comment? Was that a fair opinion of mine? I really think it is a stretch to say I referred to a 'genetic fault' of the nice people here. I don't know what that was all about. But the rest of your comments were fair play. So, for my education here at the GreasespotCafe, what is up with the Home Depot post? What is to be learned, garnered, gleened from those comments? What is the message? How will that help anyone?

If you think I am being sarcastic, you are quite wrong. I made an unthoughtful comment - like Oakspear pointed out, 'knee-jerk' and I sincerely apologized. Now I am just asking a question.

This is off topic, but the point of the Home Depot references is that (apparently) LCM bragged that he could run a Fortune 500 organization. The consensus around here among those who post, is that the only way he could run any business is into the ground. And some have a lot of fun imagining what that would be like considering the best he's been able to muster is a job at HD, maybe in the paint department, because he was so good at whitewashing and covering up things - well at least until someone figured out he was no VPW and not even an acceptable wannabe. Then it gets even better once people find out he learned all this from VPW himself, and another idol gets whacked off the pedestal. It tends to shed new light on the prevailing truth.

Personally, I don't care if people do drive-bys and knee-jerks. You wouldn't be the first to come here all arrogant and condescending. Heck, some of us go right back at 'cha. That's the fabulous thing about GSC; it's full of people that have some junk to work through, and some who don't even know it until they settle in.

[chockfull]

Ouch! I'll be more careful in the future. Reproof accepted. I've actually been able to help a bunch of people, but enough about me.

But how about the 'LCM being president of the Home Depot' comment? Was that a fair opinion of mine? I really think it is a stretch to say I referred to a 'genetic fault' of the nice people here. I don't know what that was all about. But the rest of your comments were fair play. So, for my education here at the GreasespotCafe, what is up with the Home Depot post? What is to be learned, garnered, gleened from those comments? What is the message? How will that help anyone?

If you think I am being sarcastic, you are quite wrong. I made an unthoughtful comment - like Oakspear pointed out, 'knee-jerk' and I sincerely apologized. Now I am just asking a question.

With the Home Depot thread, it is an appeal to the common sense logic that rules corporate entities. In the business world, anyone who made decisions of the nature that were made in TWI under the guise of 'revelation' would have been fired immediately upon the realization of the results. However, with the mysticism that is attached to these spiritual leaders, and justifying their decisions by saying "God told me this", they get away with far more, and there is far greater destruction experienced as a result in the lives of the average follower.

Sure there is sarcasm, venom towards LCM in that thread. However, there is sarcasm and venom in the business world towards CEO's that run their companies into the ground as well, and surely from corporate employees. I'm sure LCM earned every bit of it by his actions. If the presidents of TWI in the past and present had been held to any kind of reasonable business standard they would not have been able to lead with such poor quality, all the while putting political religious spins on their actions to entice people to believe they are "better than the world".

Your average corporate BOD has former presidents of similar organizations, people with experience in similar markets, and the ability to vote out a cr@ppy CEO. TWI's BOD, and especially the President / CEO position has never had accountability to anybody. They have no accountability to shareholders or members. They say they are accountable only to God. Well, eventually, yes. But right now or in their position they are subject only to their own pride, ego, and selfish interests. They blackball any dissention, and slander and ruin people who present differing opinions. This is corporate unhealthiness and disease all covered over by scriptures on "likemindedness".

You seem to like to pick at some of the terminology around here and ways people express dislike, distaste, and contempt for the evil they've experienced. It is true that there is some jargon going on here that has developed among ex-TWI members. However, if you take the time to think about it, it is far less distasteful than the BS Pollyanna jargon in TWI.

I mean, come on. "We're crossing over the bridge into the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"?????? People gave up careers, took losses on selling houses, moved across the country all for that metaphor which turned out to be some dooface's power mongering false revelation. And now the controlling nature of the leadership is so fear based that people engineer their whole lives around their relationship with the idiot the next step up the chain from them and are so afraid they practically ask if it's ok to go to the bathroom. Leaders love slogans like "We're going to run on the rails that got us here" to discount new ideas and continue to enforce their control and stubborn resistance to change. There is no threat of poor economic returns to oust them. There is no democratic element of leadership. There are no checks and balances. It is far worse than any denomination, which have democratic elements and checks and balances.

Many people who have been here for a long time already have "gotten over it". However, some of us feel that it is service to God and our fellow man to help others "get over it", or "avoid it", or "understand it", or "not get fooled by it". And those of us with that mindset who are hearing your insulting comments towards us pretty much can say to you - "why don't you remove the beam in your own eye there, brother". Then we can have a conversation.

[Watered Garden]

Waylaid,

Why are you here? Are you here to extol TWI, to defend the MOGs?

When I first posted, actually on another, closed site called WayDale, I was somewhat aghast at the tone posters could sometimes take. I had to sit back, calm down, and learn. There are some wonderful people here, people who have suffered as a result of their involvement with TWI. They have, in fact, moved on, and are kind enough to stick around, reaching out a helping hand to those who still suffer ill effects.

I'd suggest some outside reading: "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" is a book much recommended here. I forget the author but someone can fill it in, I'm sure.

If you had a wonderful experience in the Way Corps, that's great, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Many others did not; I found my three months at Indiana Campus to be hell on earth. There were many who experienced far worse and far better than did I.

If you were never mentally or emotionally abused by WC leadership, if you were never sexually molested or even approached, thank God! Some were; others escaped. There are those individuals who have posted here for years and find it impossible to believe that anything untoward happened at the hands of those who held our trust. I believe it.

Take a deep breath, lose the chip on your shoulder, and relax. Listen to those around you. Look for the heart behind the words.

Or we may have to switch you to decaf!

WG

[waylaid]

Tzaira,

Thanks for the straight-forward reply. I understand the Home Depot thing now. I suppose it's an avenue to 'vent' frustrations. It took a while for me to get there, but I get it. I'm not being sarcastic, but I always thought that type of thing was 'rejoicing in iniquity'. Maybe that was something I learned in the Way that I took the wrong way.

I personally get no satisfaction with that type of thing, but I will respect the fact that it helps others work things out. See? I can understand this stuff.

Thanks again.

[Oakspear]

Well, waylaid, if you were the first poster to come through here making the points that you made, I'd be less confrontational. I'm usually pretty easy-going and tolerant with people of opposing viewpoints, even those who support TWI doctrine, (ask around ) but while I've been writing those 7000+ posts, I've encountered dozens of posters whose sole purpose in posting is tell us here at GS what losers we are, who invariably use the phrase "get a life" or some variation on that theme. My patience has run out.

I can only hope that you ease up on the insults and contribute to the mix here, wherever you stand on the ex-TWI spectrum.

You apologized...I appreciate that gesture.

[chockfull]

I have a life. Sometimes it includes posting on these forums. Most of the time, not so much.

[waylaid]

Chockfull and Watered Garden,

Great points. I really don't have a chip on my shoulder about anything. I seriously don't. I came across all wrong on my first comment. I just don't know how the hell you say 'I am sorry' around here. I am home from the Emergency Room after the first dozen comments on my post and understand my place here. Actually, starting to feel like I don't have a place here.

It's not my business to comment on how many posts an individual makes, yet the number of posts is shown below each members name. I was told to mind my own business. Now I am asked what I am doing here. Is that everyone's business? I suppose so. I told you I graduated from the Way Corps and how I felt about the Way International (I didn't say one nice thing about it). Now I am asked if I am 'extolling' (excellent word choice there by the way) the MOG's? I just figured out what MOG's meant. Still working on 'innie lurkers'.

I will sit back and learn (hopefully).

Tough crowd.

[chockfull]

Waylaid,

You sound like a nice person. I didn't mean to pile on with lectures - but there were a few posts around the same time as mine. An "innie lurker" is a person who is still actively involved in a TWI fellowship who reads posts on this forum but typically does not post.

You don't need to apologize a whole lot. People all see if you do it once. It's just that there's a reaction time and people may be responding to a previous post or something.

These forums and the people on it are mostly pretty good folks. They are worth getting to know a little.

[JeffSjo]

Now you made me laugh Waylaid. I'm not kidding either.

I appreciate the apology but I'm betting that a closer look will reveal that at least one of them was qualified with a vagueness that leaves a little bit of a question for the readers.

but your insults were pretty straight forward and to me the responses have been fairly evenhanded and patient considering the head on comparisons you used to mental illnesses or other serious issues.

And Oakspear is exactly right in pointing out that some of your very points were made by folks who looking back on it seem consistent in their agenda more so than any honest consideration of truth. But I, and I'm betting Oakspear, is willing to see where you go with things from here on out.

But as far as the insults go, I assure you that I have no intentions of letting them being welcome here. If you truly are sorry and try to stop it I'm certain that things will go better for you here.

And I'm not a moderator in another avatar either, I have zero authority at GSC.(Greasespot Cafe)

but if you do stop the insults it seems reasonable to assume that you will find that you may feel more welcome, it's mostly the insulting, condescending stuff that I find objectionable so far.

[Tzaia]

I'm not being sarcastic, but I always thought that type of thing was 'rejoicing in iniquity'. Maybe that was something I learned in the Way that I took the wrong way.

You probably took it right, the problem is that so much of what was taught in TWI was designed to hold people accountable while not being accountable. My understanding is that a fair number of people had their lives and reputations trashed by TWI and liken LCM's outcome to be somewhere in the realm of karma. Yes, there is a certain amount of rejoicing in his iniquity, but then again, he brought it on. The truth is that he could come on here, apologize, and attempt to make amends for his part in the damage done to these people's lives, but he has yet to do that. He either feels he owes no apology, or he lacks the guts to face people. Either way, it's hard to respect the guy.

I, for one, am thrilled that the comments have moved beyond the scriptural accuracy doctrine genre and into what these leaders were/are really like and how this has impacted people's lives.

[waylaid]

Thanks, Jeff and Chockfull,

Sometime by tomorrow I should know how my new .... works. I don't think we need to spend anymore time on little ol' me. We can now go back to our regularly scheduled program - "The Corps (or Corpse if you please) and Witnessing". Back to you in the control booth, Jim. Thanks, Waylaid..........

Waylaid

[JustThinking]

Some of you should really get a life. This is a pathetic topic. Does it really help you deal with your bad Way experience? 'Corpse". Pretty immature. Can't say 'Corps'? You just might do better with therapy. Still struggling to find a topic that has not been covered?

'Christians can't dance' = funny. "Rocky Horror of the Spirit" = hilarious. The forums - what is the point of some of these posts? Wow, I know bitterness can be like a sickness, but this is way over the top.

I just don't see how some of this stuff helps you 'get over it'.

As the author of the topic (and your hated "Home Depot" too! 2 for 2), I guess I can best answer the question. The point came up in a previous thread and it was a curiosity FOR ME. Sometimes it helps me (and others) to get some context to their TWI experience. As communication was tightly managed by TWI, many here spent years thinking the problem was them. It wasn't until after leaving that so many things came to light (at least for me) that I just didn't know. For those of us who spent a good portion of their life in TWI, there is a LOT to think about. My impression (after 6 years) is that I'm not alone. Talking through topics like this has actually helped me get my life back. (Getting a life, in your words I guess?) If it doens't work for you, no problem. And do some people look to complain? Uh, yeah. If you live around real people, they do that from time to time. But for many of us, we weren't allowed to complain, question, etc. during our time in TWI. Now is our chance to do that. Please allow us to do that without feeling like we've got another "overseer" who wants to dictate how our life should run. For myself, I don't need it.

JT

Edited August 21, 2009 by JustThinking

[waylaid]

My head is starting to hurt. I give up.

[Twinky]

Hey folks, just ease up on Waylaid. He's said sorry, he's backing off.

Now, you lot, stop scaring him off. Pack up ganging up on him. He's here because he's interested. Wherever his head is at, he can move on (if he wants) with help from the crowd here. If people jump on him at an early stage, he's not likely to want to find out more, is he?

You will see Waylaid joined in 2007. Has it taken nearly two years to pluck up courage to post here? Or is he just an irregular looker-in?

Have a bunfight with him when he's got to know y'all a bit better.

[Bolshevik]

My head is starting to hurt. I give up.

It's the high pressure system that brings thunderclouds.

[waylaid]

Shellon, Tzaira, Copenhagen and others - Thanks for the heartfelt personal emails. I learned a bit about this place today and will be careful not to step on toes in the future.

In the words of Ace Ventura, "Alrighty then!"

Take care,

Waylaid

P.S.

I don't feel picked on. I deserved it.

[waysider]

Hello there, waylaid

I'm sure by now you know that there were women in the corps who were LITERALLY drugged and raped by the top dogs. Date rape drugs and such. Some were coerced into abortions so that the "ministry" wouldn't be blamed. VPW was a sexual predator who used his office to violate unsuspecting women. I don't say this out of bitterness. I am simply stating the reality of what happened and offering an explanation of what I think may rile people up regarding your handle. Maybe that's the sore point that revisits the pain. I really don't know.

My handle, also, conjures up a bad image if it is not accompanied with an explanation. It looks as if I am someone who sides with The Way. So here goes. In Fellow Laborers, we weren't allowed to question authority, either directly or amongst ourselves. If you did question decisions amongst yourselves, someone could rat you out and put an end to your stay in the program. So, we would sometimes walk to a nearby truck stop to talk privately without an unwanted audience. The name of the truck stop was The Wayside Truck Stop.

Hope you can stick around and bring a personal perspective that is unique to your experience.

[waylaid]

I am truly sorry that some experienced those type of things. It grieves me beyond explanation. I was one of those that had no idea.

To those that endured that stuff, I am sorry I couldn't help at the time. I certainly would have - just had no idea. Real spiritual awareness and perception, huh?

Take care,

Waylaid

[frank123lol]

I am truly sorry that some experienced those type of things. It grieves me beyond explanation. I was one of those that had no idea.

To those that endured that stuff, I am sorry I couldn't help at the time. I certainly would have - just had no idea. Real spiritual awareness and perception, huh?

Take care,

Waylaid

Dont feel bad,The rest of us had no clue either.