Quite a long time ago someone with TWI drew a picture of what he supposed Ezekiel's Vision was. I remember it looked similar to something PICASSO might have come up with. But I cannot remember just where I saw it. I have checked sylabusses and some books, but cannot locate it.
Can someone please help me find that drawing?
I do remember VPW describing the vision as he tried to describe the supposed difference between visions and "revelation" in AC, 1973. Did Meg K. have something like this in the Fine Arts house in St. Mary's?
I do remember VPW describing the vision as he tried to describe the supposed difference between visions and "revelation" in AC, 1973. Did Meg K. have something like this in the Fine Arts house in St. Mary's?
Thanks for trying Waysider! It is probably within one of the AC handouts somewhere. I do remember the picture somewhat. It was a comglomeration of all the elements in Ezekiel 1 in one picture. (Reminded me a bit of the cartoon at the beginning of the old TV show "Dennis the Menace" as he moved about as a tornado upsetting all in his path - ha!)
The drawing of a whirlwind, containing some chariot wheels and faces like a lion and an eagle, etc... all the elements into one BLOB of a picture. I wanted to believe the ministry had uncovered some provocative new "revelation" and wanted to believe it, but my first gut reaction was sheer laughter! It seemed too ridiculous to be true. Such are some of my fondest memories of TWI. How ridiculous it ALL BECAME over the years! (I do remember good times early on with friends, etc, and it wasn't all bad all the time.)
I had some time ago discovered what makes a lot of sense about that record in Ezekiel. Nobody seems to even approach it over the WEB WORLDWIDE either...if you are curious or interested, I could post my findings for all or just privately at first with you...it's your call, my friend...
Thanks Twinky for the link to the various images of Ezekiel's vision – I found Marcus Underwood's to be one of the most interesting of all [see picture below]. Spectrum, your thread got me to review my old study of some visions of God [besides here also getting into Isaiah 6, Revelation 4, 5, 11, & 15].
Ezekiel's frequent use of symbolism and fantastic imagery is quite challenging to interpreters – in my humble opinion – as far as what parts are to be taken figuratively and what is literal. My personal take on the vision in Ezekiel 1, is that it is predominantly symbolic, conveying the strong themes of God's holiness & sovereignty recurring throughout the book.
The images that Ezekiel's words conjure up in my mind are definitely awesome – and actually a little frightening – Underwood's image probably comes close to how I imagine these fantastic creatures would appear. BUT - I tend to think along the lines that the images in this vision are merely representative of how things are in the spiritual realm that by far transcends this earthly domain. I'm thinking they don't literally look like the way Ezekiel describes them – I'm not saying he didn't see them this way – just thinking that since this was a vision – perhaps God was being imaginative in conveying certain ideas.
Maybe it's a poor analogy – but as a technician, how I first learned to understand electronic circuits was by imagining water flowing through a pipe. I couldn't grasp the idea of an invisible force like electricity "moving" through a wire – but I easily understood the activity of water in motion. Thinking of electrical circuits as analagous to the way water flows through man-made conduits gave me something I could easily wrap my mind around.
If you've ever read any of Hugh Ross' stuff [or for that matter stuff by Stephen Hawking, William Dembski, or Brian Greene] – you'll know what I mean by saying there's a lot more going on in our world than meets the eye – something that a number of theories like superstring try to address. It's fun to speculate about the fantastic incidents in the gospels that talk of what Jesus did in His new body or about the nature of the spiritual realm when using something like a superstring theory to explore the possibilities/properties/capabilities in all that. Not saying I understand all the technical stuff in these guys' books - it just gets me to thinking - if God created it all and interacts with it all at will - maybe miracles, supernatural acts, etc. are not as far-fetched as we think.
I dunno.. maybe these living beings he saw actually look something like Underwood's interpretation.. my tendency leans more toward God giving mere mortals some hint about creatures with properties and capabilities far beyond our comprehension. Whatever they really look like, I'd probably faint at the sight of them – wouldn't even make it to the latter part of the vision to see the throne and glory of God. It did take the Spirit of God to set Ezekiel back up on his feet after all that [Ezekiel 2:2].
Some commentaries I've read, interpret the four faces of these incredible beings as symbolic: face of a man = intelligent, face of lion = powerful, king among wild animals, face of bull = a premium servant. and the face of an eagle = swift in execution.
And being the technician that I am – my mind is so intrigued by the wheel within a wheel - geez, how would something like that work?! There's gotta be more to it than those spinner wheel hubcap things you see on cars. Noting that their rims were full of eyes round about [verse 18] – some commentaries suggest it represents God's omniscience – to which I agree. I'm thinking of those crazy looking rings whirling around a central core gravity drive thing in the sci fi movie "Event Horizon" – the gravity drive created a black hole bridging two points in space to reduce the length of their journey.... ok - this had nothing to do with this thread - just wanted some visual aid - haven't seen many good drawings of the wheels, just thought this movie special effect was one way of depicting wheels moving within wheels.
Ezekiel's wheels perhaps being at the crux of activity [between the heavenly & earthly realms] – suggesting the "machinery" of God's program [how God interacts with us] operates under His omniscience/sovereignty rather than some blind impulse or happenstance. Like the expression "where the rubber meets the road", when these wheels engage our world it becomes a crucial moment of truth. And another intriguing aspect of these wheels is that they followed the movement of the angelic beings [as described in verses 19 to 21] – again emphasizing there is intelligence or reasons behind the wheels activity and not just the product of some automatic pilot feature or chance.
My apologies to all -- for making you all wait so long to hear what I had come up with! Please forgive me. Somehow I had gotten so busy with other matters (I am in the middle of publishing my first book) that I had completely forgotten about this post, and only today had I returned to Greasespot to discover my folly.
I shall be spending perhaps a few hours on the matter right away... thank you all for your patience!
Well, folks…here it is, finally. I should inform you all up front that I have not properly researched this at all – no word studies or working of related material in Revelation (where I believe Ezekiel is referring to, etc), or anywhere else. This is just something which occurred to me not too long after I had first joined TWI, and had taken their foundational class a few times, many years ago now.
Around 1976 or so I was in the USAF and worked in a Control Tower. (That’s where I lost my mind – Ha! Ha!) As I read this 1st chapter of Ezekiel, I could not help relating many things with it from my experience as an Air Traffic Controller.
This all might sound ridiculous – and for the life of me I can see absolutely no immediate profit in this, except to possibly satisfy some curiosity out there. But for what it is worth (And DO FEEL FREE to take pot shots at it if you like!), I give you all my take on it.
Please consider this as just something for pure amusement and fun. At the least (though there is no way to prove any of it) much of it seems a plausible and logical explanation to me. Perhaps there are those who could agree. Thank you all for listening – here goes nothing!
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin’s captivity,
3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
At this point, we must realize that whatever Ezekiel actually saw, he had to explain it all somehow in present terms and his understanding of the times.
I submit that what he saw were jet aircraft of the future. (and probably OUR FUTURE as well). The amber color is basically emanating from the cockpit, and the fire he talked about was electric lighting. (There was just no other way to explain it in his terms.)
The fire enfolding itself and the great cloud could be explained by an afterburner and contrails. If you have seen this for yourself, you could relate just as I did. The likeness of a man sounds like the pilots to me (out of the midst of the fire which lit up the cockpits).
An interesting thing to note from here on is the fact that he called these “living creatures”. However, these were SEPARATE from that which he could recognize , which were obviously WHEELS to him. Please bear that in mind as I continue “my ranting”. Ha! Ha!
6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
The faces may be decals, The wings were just that – wings! Two in front, and two behind, at the tail section).
7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf’s foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
The feet were the struts, which were part of the landing gear. The sole of their feet were the TANDEM WHEELS – split, like a calf’s hoof. And they were shiny and polished just like brass.
8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
Hands of a man could again be decals, just as the faces. And the wings he could recognize as such.
9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
Now this is interesting! For a bird to change direction, it twists or turns its wings. But Ezekiel made the puzzling observation that these wings stayed straight all the time, even when these living creatures turned. And the wings were joined together – they were rigid, unlike birds’ wings which operate independently.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
Again…perhaps decals. Have you ever seen “eagles” painted on aircraft? Hmmm!
11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
Now, their wings were stretched UPWARD. How interesting! I have personally seen naval aircraft whose wings were in a vertical position for easier storage below-deck..
12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
As for this “spirit”, this is what, to Ezekiel, “gives life” to these creatures. We will see later on that he considered this spirit to be “in the wheels”.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
All you have to consider is that these are jet aircraft, and you can immediately see what Ezekiel is trying his best to explain in his own terms. (afterburners, electric lighting, etc.)
14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
And they were FAST too – they went like a flash of lightning, compared to all the birds he had ever seen!
15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
A beryl is a silvery color, like aluminum. A wheel in the middle of a wheel is a great way to describe what we can see from the side of an aircraft’s landing gear. You have the tire, then the hub, with lug nuts all around it, and it all looks just like a wheel within a wheel – much more complex than a chariot wheel for sure!
17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
He really cannot grasp the idea as to why these wings remained straight all the time, could he? It just was not logical. Perhaps he didn’t notice the flaps and ailerons.
18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
The word rings is actually RIMS. And they were much higher than any wheels he had ever seen! The eyes could be explained as lug nuts, or perhaps where the spokes were fastened.
19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
As I said before, Ezekiel treated these planes as a combination of living creatures (the body, wings, and cockpit) and the wheels, which were constructed. And after the planes had taken off, the WHEELS went with them!
20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
He observed that these wheels and the living creatures “somehow” all went together. And he saw the landing gear go right up inside the living creatures after take-off! He supposed that was to “give life” to the creatures, so they could fly.
22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Cockpits?
23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
See? There are two wings on each side. There are many of these types to be seen even today if one were to visit a naval aircraft site on the web.
24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
And here they are on the flight deck with their wings in the upward position. And they were turning on their engines, making a lot of noise, just like great waters. And now you hear the voice of speech, just like God. (sort of reminds me of the movie The Ten Commandments, when God said, “Moses!”. Ha! Ha!)
And as they are preparing for departure, they LET DOWN THEIR WINGS. (Duh!)
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
And now, they hear a voice from the sky (firmament) above.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
This voice came from what looked like a throne (the tower itself) with a man on it (who has a microphone in his hand). Have you ever seen the top of a control tower – how the windows angle upward and outward? This is to reduce glare, so the controllers can see better. And the tower is flat on top. This configuration is well-described by Ezekiel as “a sapphire”!
Was this voice saying something like, “Agar six four – wind, two, one, zero at five knots – altimeter two niner point three – cleared for take-off.” ?? Who the heck knows, anyway?
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
And the amber color all around the man is proper also. I used to work in a tower!
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about.
And there are other colors also. (Blue, green, red, yellow, etc, all having their different significances, but we won’t go into all that detail, except to say it all might remind somebody of a rainbow of sorts.)
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
And this electrical lighting was BRIGHT, just like the glory of the Lord. And then the voice…
Then begins Chapter 2. This voice was God speaking to Ezekiel to inform him of what to say to warn Israel.
Whatever this vision is, it's definitely of some future time for Ezekiel and his contemporaries, and ours as well, as the vision seems to relate with things in the book of Revelation.
I would bet there are a “lot of holes” in my observation. As I said, FEEL FREE to comment, good or bad, it makes no difference to me. As the kids are saying these days – "IT’S ALL GOOD!"
Great post Spectrum! You know - you reminded me of something. Ages ago - my first year in TWI, a friend's mom took PFAL. She was into a lot of things and loaned me a book one day - I think it was "The Space Ships of Ezekiel" or something like that. Anyway - I had a mixed reaction. Some of the stuff was so interesting, I'm a old sci fi fan since I was a kid [the author interpreting things in a similar fashion as you did] - but I could also feel the subtle pressure of seasoned grads to curb my interest in the book.
Hey all...I am still looking for that drawing from TWI. But I found this one, which I thought was especially humorous...
I believe even Picasso would have been proud of it.
Just click on the thumnail below!
SPEC
PS: Added note...
Eze 1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
Could this lightning that went forth be the pilot firing a missle?
the future external vehicle interpretation is interesting. many come to the same kind of conclusions. i once thought so my self.
but my current guess is that the "vehicle" being envisioned and understood during the story of Ezekial's altered state of consciousness is that of a human being.
In essence, Ezekial was being introduced to his self on the inside more clearly...and by doing so, he was beginning to see the nature of humanity. He was beginning to be introduced to the "riddle in the mirror" (often known as "through a glass darkly"). Although he may have gone on to interpret what he saw in his altered state as a literal mythological being. It was a step. A peek.
Not a literal description of an external future object, but a rich composition of archetypes and metaphors that introduce the 4 cardinal points of the constant present potential inner psycho-spiritual dynamics of all human beings.
I have lost count as to how many (ancient, old, new and very new) maps and models and languages of the human psyche almost always seem to start by carving it into 4 quarters....then expanding on each.
imo, it is perennial patterns such as this that point towards the generic divine. Not exclusive momentary shards. But that which is found to be all over...all the time.
So...what use is this kind of information? For one...understanding the cardinal points of the self help us understand the four corners of inner suffering, rather than a one-size fits all type of hammer. To the depth and degree we understand these...we can respond to the human condition more effectively...more specifically...in any tongue.
The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ, by Levi H. Dowling, [1920], at sacred-texts.com
Chapter 53
Jesus passes the sixth brotherhood test and receives the sixth degree, LOVE DIVINE.
1. In all the land there is no place more grandly furnished than the Beauty Parlours of the temple of the sun.
2. Few students ever entered these rich rooms; the priests regarded them with awe, and called them Halls of Mysteries.
3. When Jesus had attained the victory over fear, he gained the right to enter here.
4. The guide led on the way, and after passing many richly furnished rooms they reached the Hall of Harmony; and here was Jesus left alone.
5. Among the instruments of music was a harpsichord, and Jesus sat in thoughtful mood inspecting it, when, quietly, a maiden of entrancing beauty came into the hall.
6. She did not seem to notice Jesus as he sat and mused, so busy with his thoughts.
7. She found her place beside the harpsichord; she touched the chords most gently, and she sung the songs of Israel.
8. And Jesus was entranced; such beauty he had never seen; such music he had never heard.
9. The maiden sung her songs; she did not seem to know that any one was near; she went her way.
10. And Jesus, talking with himself, said out, What is the meaning of this incident? I did not know that such entrancing beauty and such queen-like loveliness were ever found among the sons of men.
11. I did not know that voice of angel ever graced a human form, or that seraphic music ever came from human lips.
12. For days he sat entranced; the current of his thoughts was changed; he thought of nothing but the singer and her songs.
13. He longed to see her once again; and after certain days she came; she spoke and laid her hand upon his head.
14. Her touch thrilled all his soul, and for the time, forgotten was the work that he was sent to do.
15. Few were the words the maiden said; she went her way; but then the heart of Jesus had been touched.
16. A love-flame had been kindled in his soul, and he was brought to face the sorest trial of his life.
17. He could not sleep nor eat. Thoughts of the maiden came; they would not go. His carnal nature called aloud for her companionship.
18. And then he said, Lo, I have conquered every foe that I have met, and shall I now be conquered by this carnal love?
19. My Father sent me here to show the power of love divine, that love that reaches every living thing.
20. Shall this pure, universal love be all absorbed by carnal love? Shall I forget all creatures else, and lose my life in this fair maiden, though she is the highest type of beauty, purity and love?
21. Into its very depths his soul was stirred, and long he wrestled with this angel-idol of his heart.
22. But when the day was almost lost, his higher ego rose in might; he found himself again, and then he said,
23. Although my heart shall break I will not fail in this my hardest task; I will be victor over carnal love.
24. And when again the maiden came, and offered him her hand and heart, he said,
25. Fair one, your very presence thrills me with delight; your voice is benediction to my soul; my human self would fly with you, and be contented in your love;
26. But all the world is craving for a love that I have come to manifest.
27. I must, then, bid you go; but we will meet again; our ways on earth will not be cast apart.
28. I see you in the hurrying throngs of earth as minister of love; I hear your voice in song, that wins the hearts of men to better things.
29. And then in sorrow and in tears the maiden went away, and Jesus was again alone.
30. And instantly the great bells of the temple rang; the singers sung a new, new song; the grotto blazed with light.
31. The hierophant himself appeared, and said, All hail! triumphant Logos, hail! The conqueror of carnal love stands on the heights.
32. And then he placed in Jesus' hands a scroll on which was written, LOVE DIVINE.
33. Together they passed through the grotto of the beautiful, and in the banquet hall a feast was served, and Jesus was the honoured guest.
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waysider
I do remember VPW describing the vision as he tried to describe the supposed difference between visions and "revelation" in AC, 1973. Did Meg K. have something like this in the Fine Arts house in St. Mary's?
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spectrum49
Thanks for trying Waysider! It is probably within one of the AC handouts somewhere. I do remember the picture somewhat. It was a comglomeration of all the elements in Ezekiel 1 in one picture. (Reminded me a bit of the cartoon at the beginning of the old TV show "Dennis the Menace" as he moved about as a tornado upsetting all in his path - ha!)
The drawing of a whirlwind, containing some chariot wheels and faces like a lion and an eagle, etc... all the elements into one BLOB of a picture. I wanted to believe the ministry had uncovered some provocative new "revelation" and wanted to believe it, but my first gut reaction was sheer laughter! It seemed too ridiculous to be true. Such are some of my fondest memories of TWI. How ridiculous it ALL BECAME over the years! (I do remember good times early on with friends, etc, and it wasn't all bad all the time.)
I had some time ago discovered what makes a lot of sense about that record in Ezekiel. Nobody seems to even approach it over the WEB WORLDWIDE either...if you are curious or interested, I could post my findings for all or just privately at first with you...it's your call, my friend...
SPEC
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Sunesis
I'd love to hear you share Spectrum :)
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Twinky
Here's what I got from Google:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=ezekiel+vision&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QwK8SqSxIYOhjAetiezICw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1
I'd like to hear what Spectrum has to say, too.
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Twinky
I found this in Wikipedia as "Ezekiel's Vision" which is his idea of God in glory. The reference in my post above should have shown this pic.
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waysider
Oh, great.
Now I can't get that old Steelers Wheel song out of my head.
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am
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T-Bone
Thanks Twinky for the link to the various images of Ezekiel's vision – I found Marcus Underwood's to be one of the most interesting of all [see picture below]. Spectrum, your thread got me to review my old study of some visions of God [besides here also getting into Isaiah 6, Revelation 4, 5, 11, & 15].
Ezekiel's frequent use of symbolism and fantastic imagery is quite challenging to interpreters – in my humble opinion – as far as what parts are to be taken figuratively and what is literal. My personal take on the vision in Ezekiel 1, is that it is predominantly symbolic, conveying the strong themes of God's holiness & sovereignty recurring throughout the book.
The images that Ezekiel's words conjure up in my mind are definitely awesome – and actually a little frightening – Underwood's image probably comes close to how I imagine these fantastic creatures would appear. BUT - I tend to think along the lines that the images in this vision are merely representative of how things are in the spiritual realm that by far transcends this earthly domain. I'm thinking they don't literally look like the way Ezekiel describes them – I'm not saying he didn't see them this way – just thinking that since this was a vision – perhaps God was being imaginative in conveying certain ideas.
Maybe it's a poor analogy – but as a technician, how I first learned to understand electronic circuits was by imagining water flowing through a pipe. I couldn't grasp the idea of an invisible force like electricity "moving" through a wire – but I easily understood the activity of water in motion. Thinking of electrical circuits as analagous to the way water flows through man-made conduits gave me something I could easily wrap my mind around.
If you've ever read any of Hugh Ross' stuff [or for that matter stuff by Stephen Hawking, William Dembski, or Brian Greene] – you'll know what I mean by saying there's a lot more going on in our world than meets the eye – something that a number of theories like superstring try to address. It's fun to speculate about the fantastic incidents in the gospels that talk of what Jesus did in His new body or about the nature of the spiritual realm when using something like a superstring theory to explore the possibilities/properties/capabilities in all that. Not saying I understand all the technical stuff in these guys' books - it just gets me to thinking - if God created it all and interacts with it all at will - maybe miracles, supernatural acts, etc. are not as far-fetched as we think.
I dunno.. maybe these living beings he saw actually look something like Underwood's interpretation.. my tendency leans more toward God giving mere mortals some hint about creatures with properties and capabilities far beyond our comprehension. Whatever they really look like, I'd probably faint at the sight of them – wouldn't even make it to the latter part of the vision to see the throne and glory of God. It did take the Spirit of God to set Ezekiel back up on his feet after all that [Ezekiel 2:2].
Some commentaries I've read, interpret the four faces of these incredible beings as symbolic: face of a man = intelligent, face of lion = powerful, king among wild animals, face of bull = a premium servant. and the face of an eagle = swift in execution.
And being the technician that I am – my mind is so intrigued by the wheel within a wheel - geez, how would something like that work?! There's gotta be more to it than those spinner wheel hubcap things you see on cars. Noting that their rims were full of eyes round about [verse 18] – some commentaries suggest it represents God's omniscience – to which I agree. I'm thinking of those crazy looking rings whirling around a central core gravity drive thing in the sci fi movie "Event Horizon" – the gravity drive created a black hole bridging two points in space to reduce the length of their journey.... ok - this had nothing to do with this thread - just wanted some visual aid - haven't seen many good drawings of the wheels, just thought this movie special effect was one way of depicting wheels moving within wheels.
Ezekiel's wheels perhaps being at the crux of activity [between the heavenly & earthly realms] – suggesting the "machinery" of God's program [how God interacts with us] operates under His omniscience/sovereignty rather than some blind impulse or happenstance. Like the expression "where the rubber meets the road", when these wheels engage our world it becomes a crucial moment of truth. And another intriguing aspect of these wheels is that they followed the movement of the angelic beings [as described in verses 19 to 21] – again emphasizing there is intelligence or reasons behind the wheels activity and not just the product of some automatic pilot feature or chance.
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sirguessalot
thanks spectrum...i'd certainly be interested in reading what youve come to envision about it
and very nice additions TBone
some here know i like this particular thread of inquiry...always have...even as an artist in twi...i sketched and drew a lot about it...
before during and after twi...always finding ways to give form and dimension to that which the mind is seeing when reading or hearing words
ezekial's description of his experience of these "faces and wheels of being" are a lifelong favorite of mine
...clearly one of the biggest enigmas of the modern bible...even plays a major role in the "throneroom of god" in The Revelation
...connected directly to the four horsemen too
a large part my published and unpublished artworks are but a trail of studies in my ongoing exploration of this archetype.
not only as it appears in the Bible...but as it appears throughout the arts and literatures of the world's histories.
...patterns that are wider than, but include, any particular branch of language
attached is one study of the possible structural components of the pattern
(not the spirals...but the nested circles behind them)
..."a quadralateral intersection of infinite wholes"
...an abstract expression of quantum mechanics
...or "where all touches all" and such
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spectrum49
My apologies to all -- for making you all wait so long to hear what I had come up with! Please forgive me. Somehow I had gotten so busy with other matters (I am in the middle of publishing my first book) that I had completely forgotten about this post, and only today had I returned to Greasespot to discover my folly.
I shall be spending perhaps a few hours on the matter right away... thank you all for your patience!
SPEC
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spectrum49
Well, folks…here it is, finally. I should inform you all up front that I have not properly researched this at all – no word studies or working of related material in Revelation (where I believe Ezekiel is referring to, etc), or anywhere else. This is just something which occurred to me not too long after I had first joined TWI, and had taken their foundational class a few times, many years ago now.
Around 1976 or so I was in the USAF and worked in a Control Tower. (That’s where I lost my mind – Ha! Ha!) As I read this 1st chapter of Ezekiel, I could not help relating many things with it from my experience as an Air Traffic Controller.
This all might sound ridiculous – and for the life of me I can see absolutely no immediate profit in this, except to possibly satisfy some curiosity out there. But for what it is worth (And DO FEEL FREE to take pot shots at it if you like!), I give you all my take on it.
Please consider this as just something for pure amusement and fun. At the least (though there is no way to prove any of it) much of it seems a plausible and logical explanation to me. Perhaps there are those who could agree. Thank you all for listening – here goes nothing!
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin’s captivity,
3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
At this point, we must realize that whatever Ezekiel actually saw, he had to explain it all somehow in present terms and his understanding of the times.
I submit that what he saw were jet aircraft of the future. (and probably OUR FUTURE as well). The amber color is basically emanating from the cockpit, and the fire he talked about was electric lighting. (There was just no other way to explain it in his terms.)
The fire enfolding itself and the great cloud could be explained by an afterburner and contrails. If you have seen this for yourself, you could relate just as I did. The likeness of a man sounds like the pilots to me (out of the midst of the fire which lit up the cockpits).
An interesting thing to note from here on is the fact that he called these “living creatures”. However, these were SEPARATE from that which he could recognize , which were obviously WHEELS to him. Please bear that in mind as I continue “my ranting”. Ha! Ha!
6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
The faces may be decals, The wings were just that – wings! Two in front, and two behind, at the tail section).
7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf’s foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
The feet were the struts, which were part of the landing gear. The sole of their feet were the TANDEM WHEELS – split, like a calf’s hoof. And they were shiny and polished just like brass.
8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
Hands of a man could again be decals, just as the faces. And the wings he could recognize as such.
9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
Now this is interesting! For a bird to change direction, it twists or turns its wings. But Ezekiel made the puzzling observation that these wings stayed straight all the time, even when these living creatures turned. And the wings were joined together – they were rigid, unlike birds’ wings which operate independently.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
Again…perhaps decals. Have you ever seen “eagles” painted on aircraft? Hmmm!
11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
Now, their wings were stretched UPWARD. How interesting! I have personally seen naval aircraft whose wings were in a vertical position for easier storage below-deck..
12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
As for this “spirit”, this is what, to Ezekiel, “gives life” to these creatures. We will see later on that he considered this spirit to be “in the wheels”.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
All you have to consider is that these are jet aircraft, and you can immediately see what Ezekiel is trying his best to explain in his own terms. (afterburners, electric lighting, etc.)
14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
And they were FAST too – they went like a flash of lightning, compared to all the birds he had ever seen!
15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
A beryl is a silvery color, like aluminum. A wheel in the middle of a wheel is a great way to describe what we can see from the side of an aircraft’s landing gear. You have the tire, then the hub, with lug nuts all around it, and it all looks just like a wheel within a wheel – much more complex than a chariot wheel for sure!
17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
He really cannot grasp the idea as to why these wings remained straight all the time, could he? It just was not logical. Perhaps he didn’t notice the flaps and ailerons.
18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
The word rings is actually RIMS. And they were much higher than any wheels he had ever seen! The eyes could be explained as lug nuts, or perhaps where the spokes were fastened.
19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
As I said before, Ezekiel treated these planes as a combination of living creatures (the body, wings, and cockpit) and the wheels, which were constructed. And after the planes had taken off, the WHEELS went with them!
20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
He observed that these wheels and the living creatures “somehow” all went together. And he saw the landing gear go right up inside the living creatures after take-off! He supposed that was to “give life” to the creatures, so they could fly.
22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Cockpits?
23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
See? There are two wings on each side. There are many of these types to be seen even today if one were to visit a naval aircraft site on the web.
24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
And here they are on the flight deck with their wings in the upward position. And they were turning on their engines, making a lot of noise, just like great waters. And now you hear the voice of speech, just like God. (sort of reminds me of the movie The Ten Commandments, when God said, “Moses!”. Ha! Ha!)
And as they are preparing for departure, they LET DOWN THEIR WINGS. (Duh!)
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
And now, they hear a voice from the sky (firmament) above.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
This voice came from what looked like a throne (the tower itself) with a man on it (who has a microphone in his hand). Have you ever seen the top of a control tower – how the windows angle upward and outward? This is to reduce glare, so the controllers can see better. And the tower is flat on top. This configuration is well-described by Ezekiel as “a sapphire”!
Was this voice saying something like, “Agar six four – wind, two, one, zero at five knots – altimeter two niner point three – cleared for take-off.” ?? Who the heck knows, anyway?
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
And the amber color all around the man is proper also. I used to work in a tower!
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about.
And there are other colors also. (Blue, green, red, yellow, etc, all having their different significances, but we won’t go into all that detail, except to say it all might remind somebody of a rainbow of sorts.)
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
And this electrical lighting was BRIGHT, just like the glory of the Lord. And then the voice…
Then begins Chapter 2. This voice was God speaking to Ezekiel to inform him of what to say to warn Israel.
Whatever this vision is, it's definitely of some future time for Ezekiel and his contemporaries, and ours as well, as the vision seems to relate with things in the book of Revelation.
I would bet there are a “lot of holes” in my observation. As I said, FEEL FREE to comment, good or bad, it makes no difference to me. As the kids are saying these days – "IT’S ALL GOOD!"
SO, LET’S HAVE SOME REAL FUN WITH THIS THREAD!
SPEC
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T-Bone
Great post Spectrum! You know - you reminded me of something. Ages ago - my first year in TWI, a friend's mom took PFAL. She was into a lot of things and loaned me a book one day - I think it was "The Space Ships of Ezekiel" or something like that. Anyway - I had a mixed reaction. Some of the stuff was so interesting, I'm a old sci fi fan since I was a kid [the author interpreting things in a similar fashion as you did] - but I could also feel the subtle pressure of seasoned grads to curb my interest in the book.
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spectrum49
Hey all...I am still looking for that drawing from TWI. But I found this one, which I thought was especially humorous...
I believe even Picasso would have been proud of it.
Just click on the thumnail below!
SPEC
PS: Added note...
Eze 1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
Could this lightning that went forth be the pilot firing a missle?
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sirguessalot
the future external vehicle interpretation is interesting. many come to the same kind of conclusions. i once thought so my self.
but my current guess is that the "vehicle" being envisioned and understood during the story of Ezekial's altered state of consciousness is that of a human being.
In essence, Ezekial was being introduced to his self on the inside more clearly...and by doing so, he was beginning to see the nature of humanity. He was beginning to be introduced to the "riddle in the mirror" (often known as "through a glass darkly"). Although he may have gone on to interpret what he saw in his altered state as a literal mythological being. It was a step. A peek.
Not a literal description of an external future object, but a rich composition of archetypes and metaphors that introduce the 4 cardinal points of the constant present potential inner psycho-spiritual dynamics of all human beings.
I have lost count as to how many (ancient, old, new and very new) maps and models and languages of the human psyche almost always seem to start by carving it into 4 quarters....then expanding on each.
imo, it is perennial patterns such as this that point towards the generic divine. Not exclusive momentary shards. But that which is found to be all over...all the time.
So...what use is this kind of information? For one...understanding the cardinal points of the self help us understand the four corners of inner suffering, rather than a one-size fits all type of hammer. To the depth and degree we understand these...we can respond to the human condition more effectively...more specifically...in any tongue.
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year2027
God first
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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