Does God love Satan?

[RottieGrrrl]

Trust, thank you for the explanation of rhema and logos. It is a bit easier to grasp than before. rhemos is the words and logos is the thought behind those words.

And geisha, what can I say, you once again are bringing things up I never gave much thought to before. Thanks for that.

I'm still reading some of the posts here bit by bit.

[geisha779]

Trust and Obey,

I really enjoyed your post. . . you make so many good points. God is love. . . and we just love that verse. . . I do. . . but, I think we humans have a tendency to magnify that attribute of God's, above others. I often do. . . . because THAT is the one I am most comfortable with.

Scripture only magnifies one attribute of God's . . . in it being said three times in two places. . . . Holy, Holy, Holy. . . not love, love, love.

I believe it is the one attribute mentioned most in scripture.

We don't really have anything to compare God's holiness with. . . it is completely unique in that He has no darkness or sin. . . hard to wrap our heads around. Even when we are living holy it is only in a vague or relative manner.

So, yes God is love. . . . that is one thing He is. . . but, it is difficult to define Him(and I could stop there) by that one attribute alone.

[CKnapp3]

Actually, Satan is a creation of God with a purpose. In the Book of Job, Satan's job was to test Job for the purity of his faith. God designed Satan to be evil. Tradition does teach that Satan is the former archangel Lucifer. However, that begs the following question: How can the Prince of Darkness be the Bearer of Light? That would be clearly a contradiction of terms.

In modern society, our government has a satanic nature. I'm talking about the legal, and particularly the criminal justice system. The apostle Paul told the Corinthians to "Turn that evil doer over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh....THAT HIS SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED!" That's a strange reason to consign someone to Satan if you buy into the traditional story. Furthermore, if Satan is truly God's archenemy as tradition teaches, why would God take that which is precious and sacred to him, and turn him over to his archenemy? That sounds like betrayal if you ask me, and God doesn't betray anyone!

Does God love Satan? I would have to say "yes". However when God is finished with Satan, he will be destroyed. Whether the destroyed Satan will be recreated into a good being remains to be seen. What's a vessel of honor today could be a vessel of dishonor tomorrow, and what's a vessel of dishonor today can be transformed into a vessel of honor. God is powerful enough to do this.

Chuck

[year2027]

God first

hi Chuck

does God love Satan yes God has no choice in loving Satan but what is Satan

but flesh that we are but we shall come of it when we die and then we will be born or die the second death

our body was the Bearer of Light of light but it die until Christ quicken it if we believe in love

not our fleshly body but the light that made us alive by Christ if we believe

born is conceive

and we are Satan when we walk by our five senses but we do not have walk by our five senses

we can walk by the spirit of God which the spirit of Christ

G1080. gennao, ghen-nah'-o; from a var. of G1085; to procreate (prop. of the father, but by extens. of the mother); fig. to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Lucifer was just a king

Lucifer was Satan and so was Adam and so was Peter and am I and you

our flesh is Satan

love Roy

[CKnapp3]

God first

hi Chuck

does God love Satan yes God has no choice in loving Satan but what is Satan

but flesh that we are but we shall come of it when we die and then we will be born or die the second death

our body was the Bearer of Light of light but it die until Christ quicken it if we believe in love

not our fleshly body but the light that made us alive by Christ if we believe

born is conceive

and we are Satan when we walk by our five senses but we do not have walk by our five senses

we can walk by the spirit of God which the spirit of Christ

G1080. gennao, ghen-nah'-o; from a var. of G1085; to procreate (prop. of the father, but by extens. of the mother); fig. to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Lucifer was just a king

Lucifer was Satan and so was Adam and so was Peter and am I and you

our flesh is Satan

love Roy

Roy,

I can't really argue on that one. If we are our own worst enemy, then I would agree that Satan is really our own selfish natured little selves. Like you said, our flesh. I no longer beleive that "Lucifer" is now Satan, as if Satan was once a good angel gone bad. Jesus himself said of Satan that he was a liar and a murderer from the very beginning, so he was NEVER good at any time, not even under an alter ego.

Chuck

[year2027]

God first

hi Chuck

yes just like Adam was who murderer the human race until Christ gave it life again under faith

love Roy

[CKnapp3]

God first

hi Chuck

yes just like Adam was who murderer the human race until Christ gave it life again under faith

love Roy

Roy,

For those who believe both the Lucifer story as well as the Adam and Eve one as factual, a question is begged: Who committed the "original sin"? Tradition says it's Adam and Eve, but Lucifer, according to the same tradition, sinned before Adam and Eve. Furthermore, who tempted Lucifer? Before his so called "fall" as an angel, there was no such a thing as sin. And sin and evil cannot exist unless God had created it in the first place. Just a little food for thought. Could it be that Adam's fall was the rebellion of Lucifer? :)

Chuck

[year2027]

God first

hi Chuck

Adam was the first Lucifer/Satan/Devil Lucifer was just given like Adam's flesh was the first Lucifer/Satan/Devil/Serpent/Beast of the Field/Wicket One/Jesus kind

even that Jesus Christ did not sin but there many people who were call Jesus

Adam was Christ kind too

Adam was made with God's image but he was also made flesh image and life image or body image

Adam was body growth life that goes back its kind and begin again

Adam was soul that dies like we all do like Lucifer/Satan/Devil Lucifer was just given like Adam's flesh was the first Lucifer/Satan/Devil/Serpent/Beast of the Field/Wicket One/Jesus Kind/Animals Kind/Plant Kind

Adam was spirit which God's image that die but Christ created it new or recreated life in it or quicken it made alive again

Adam sinned first but we also sinned

that we got tell God we are sorry

love Roy

[geisha779]

Roy,

For those who believe both the Lucifer story as well as the Adam and Eve one as factual, a question is begged: Who committed the "original sin"? Tradition says it's Adam and Eve, but Lucifer, according to the same tradition, sinned before Adam and Eve. Furthermore, who tempted Lucifer? Before his so called "fall" as an angel, there was no such a thing as sin. And sin and evil cannot exist unless God had created it in the first place. Just a little food for thought. Could it be that Adam's fall was the rebellion of Lucifer? :)

Chuck

Another way to look at it is that God created angels with freewill. . . . to be obedient or disobedient. . . . as well as man. . . . and the choice is really ours. . . . .that God allowed the condition for sin is a reasonable assumption. . . . because with freewill we have the choice to accept or reject Him. . .

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “[/url]I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

What is evil? Can you bottle it. . . .eat it or mow it like grass. . . . throw it like a rock? Isn't evil just the absence of good? Like darkness is the absence of light or cold the absence of heat? It isn't something God had to create. . . . it is simply a rejection of good. . . . the result of a freewill choice. God allows evil to exist but, it does not follow that He created it. . . .

If God didn't allow for both than our service to Him would not be freewill but obligatory. . . .

[year2027]

God first

hi geisha779

I used to think that but I grew past it

One can be say he is tempted of self

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone

for God cannot tempt man but natural flesh can his self he follower his inner self but his his inner Spirit is of God

how it be free will the devil involved in it but it between your inner self flesh life against inner self of spirit life is true free will

evil can be bottle up but neither can good be bottle up

they changed like moods because we can follower our flesh or spirit is our choice

yes dankness is absence of light like evil is absence of good

but I choice good when i don't let mind into it

love Roy

[cman]

I don't think using 'flesh life' or 'spirit life',

really makes much sense to me to help with God and Satan.

If that's what you are doing Roy.

Though I'm sure you know what you are saying.

Could it be that Adam's fall was the rebellion of Lucifer?

Posted by Chuck seems close to the mark.

Every time.

Though I don't believe there was a fall.

Cause it all is about the forces in our mind.

Which are part of other forces that are in direct connection.

and the choice is really ours. . .

Posted by Geisha is very true to a point.

There are powers that be that negate, or will end, some choices.

Our worst enemy is the mind.

Our best weapon is the mind.

And not just figuring things out, thinking,

but being shown, not by man directly,

but God and Satan working.

Which requires thinking.

If we can be still long enough to see it.

It's happening whether we see it or not.

[year2027]

God first

hi cman

the life of the flesh is in the blood but the life of spirit is in the image and we got the image by Christ up his fleshly life which is in his blood

Adam's fall was the rebellion God's will against his inner self

yes the choice is really your's

love Roy

[CKnapp3]

Another way to look at it is that God created angels with freewill. . . . to be obedient or disobedient. . . . as well as man. . . . and the choice is really ours. . . . .that God allowed the condition for sin is a reasonable assumption. . . . because with freewill we have the choice to accept or reject Him. . .

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “[/url]I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

What is evil? Can you bottle it. . . .eat it or mow it like grass. . . . throw it like a rock? Isn't evil just the absence of good? Like darkness is the absence of light or cold the absence of heat? It isn't something God had to create. . . . it is simply a rejection of good. . . . the result of a freewill choice. God allows evil to exist but, it does not follow that He created it. . . .

If God didn't allow for both than our service to Him would not be freewill but obligatory. . . .

Well, it is also written however that God did in fact create evil and darkness:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

As far as one having free-will, you might want to read Romans, Chapter 9. It points out that God is the absolute sovereign, so our so called "free-will" is really a fallacy. Besides, even if we did have free-will, it wouldn't be powerful enough to undermine God and HIS will. ;) We may think we have some sort of free-will, but we are really doing God's will the whole time. We are definitely a slave to somebody. I'll take a cue from the Apostle Paul and say that I'm a slave to The Lord Jesus Christ.

Geisha, I take the viewpoint that our service to God is in fact obligatory (like I said, we are a slave to somebody), not so much that, but moreso it's not even our own work, but God who works through us to do HIS will. That is why Jesus could proclaim "I always do my Father's will".

Chuck

[CKnapp3]

God first

hi cman

the life of the flesh is in the blood but the life of spirit is in the image and we got the image by Christ up his fleshly life which is in his blood

Adam's fall was the rebellion God's will against his inner self

yes the choice is really your's

love Roy

Roy,

I think Adam's "fall" was something God had planned. I believe we are flawed by design. Could God create us without flaws? Absolutely, of course. However, if we were created without flaws, then we would not need God, and God therefore would have no opportunity to bless anyone. God wants to bless people, so naturally God would need those people to have flaws, that they would in turn need God. Furthermore, we ourselves would be bored sick if we were created flawless. Is there anything really exciting in a perfect world? Without a chaotic one to contrast it, we wouldn't really appreciate it. I guess we really don't appreciate anything until we lose it, and realize how miserable we are without it.

I don't buy into this "Plan B" theory. God did not have a "Plan B", or any other backup plan. He always has, and always will work on Plan A. :)

Chuck

[geisha779]

Well, it is also written however that God did in fact create evil and darkness:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

As far as one having free-will, you might want to read Romans, Chapter 9. It points out that God is the absolute sovereign, so our so called "free-will" is really a fallacy. Besides, even if we did have free-will, it wouldn't be powerful enough to undermine God and HIS will. ;) We may think we have some sort of free-will, but we are really doing God's will the whole time. We are definitely a slave to somebody. I'll take a cue from the Apostle Paul and say that I'm a slave to The Lord Jesus Christ.

Geisha, I take the viewpoint that our service to God is in fact obligatory (like I said, we are a slave to somebody), not so much that, but moreso it's not even our own work, but God who works through us to do HIS will. That is why Jesus could proclaim "I always do my Father's will".

Chuck

If you look at newer English translations. . . .that word evil in Is 45:7 is translated disaster or woe. . . it is an assumption to declare it means God brings into existence moral evil. . . .

Yes, God is sovereign. . . . absolutely. . . . I am with you. . . . and funny, I had this conversation with hubby this morning. . . .exact same thing. . . . but, you can choose to do good or to do bad. . . . we(Christians) all sin.

I am not sold on the doctrine of predestination. . . . I still have questions about it. . . . the more I consider it in light of verses like God would have all men to be saved. . . . faith comes by hearing. . . . and what I understand of the attributes of God. . . the more I struggle with it. God is just. . . and will judge us accordingly. . . . this all gives me pause to consider. . . . but, I will not lay evil at His feet. . . . they meant it for evil. . . . he meant it for good.

I really agree with you up to a point. . . . that God used Satan with Job. . . . for His purpose. . . . where we differ is that God designed Him to be evil.

I believe it unfolds and evolves according to God's plan too. . . .but, that God is righteous and holy and not guilty of creating evil, and still able in His perfect design and plan. . . .but always who He is. . . . good. It is not out of His control, yet He is still innocent of evil. . . . or even abiding evil. . . . because it will be judged.

That is why it is so amazing and awe inspiring.

Mere Christianity by CS Lewis is a great read on this stuff. . . . as is A W Tozer's Knowlegde of the Holy. . . . . if you are interested.

Edited September 20, 2009 by geisha779

[year2027]

God first

hi Chuck

plan a or b means nothing to me God know we would sin and he know what it take to save us

I love you

love Roy

Edited September 20, 2009 by year2027

[CKnapp3]

If you look at newer English translations. . . .that word evil in Is 45:7 is translated disaster or woe. . . it is an assumption to declare it means God brings into existence moral evil. . . .

Actually Geisha, the etymology of the word "evil" is an rather interesting one, and originally was not synonymous with "malice" like it is today. The word "evil" comes from the German word "übel", which meant merely "uppity" or "conceited". In other words, an "evil person" in its original meaning meant someone who is "stuck up".

It's amazing how words can change their meanings over a long period of time. Case in point are words like "gay" and "queer". Originally, neither of those words had the homosexual connotations that they have today. "Gay" originally mean "happy" or "cheerful", while "queer" meant "peculiar" or "odd" or even "eccentric".

BTW, if God didn't create moral evil, then in all reality, moral evil doesn't even exist, because nothing exists unless God created it, and we all know only God alone can create. ;)

Chuck

Edited September 21, 2009 by CKnapp3

[geisha779]

Actually Geisha, the etymology of the word "evil" is an rather interesting one, and originally was not synonymous with "malice" like it is today. The word "evil" comes from the German word "übel", which meant merely "uppity" or "conceited". In other words, an "evil person" in its original meaning meant someone who is "stuck up".

It's amazing how words can change their meanings over a long period of time. Case in point are words like "gay" and "queer". Originally, neither of those words had the homosexual connotations that they have today. "Gay" originally mean "happy" or "cheerful", while "queer" meant "peculiar" or "odd" or even "eccentric".

BTW, if God didn't create moral evil, then in all reality, moral evil doesn't even exist, because nothing exists unless God created it, and we all know only God alone can create. ;)

Chuck

I have a friend who is a linguist and she loves to expound on the etymology of words. . . . she is fascinating, but I was speaking of the translated word. . . . maybe this explanation will help.

http://www.carm.org/...god-create-evil

As I mentioned before. . . evil is the absence of good --- opposite of good. . . and it does not follow it had to be created. . . . it is allowed for a time, but I disagree it is created. . . . good isn't created is it?

Just to add. . . . we need to have a high view of God. . . .

Edited September 21, 2009 by geisha779

[oenophile]

I think a better question is if God in His foreknowledge knew that Lucifer would rebel and wreak havoc on His creation, why did He create him?

Edited November 5, 2009 by oenophile

[kimberly]

oenophile, I heard that same thing taught once. Said God does not have perfect foreknowledge cause if He did....what you stated. Funny, I had forgotten until you posted it.

It is a very good argument. Gives one something to think about. I thought about it for a little while. I don't know or have an answer or explanation. I am ok with that.

[oenophile]

oenophile, I heard that same thing taught once. Said God does not have perfect foreknowledge cause if He did....what you stated. Funny, I had forgotten until you posted it.

It is a very good argument. Gives one something to think about. I thought about it for a little while. I don't know or have an answer or explanation. I am ok with that.

Kimberly,

I think the idea that God does not have perfect foreknowledge is a theological cop-out on the question of why did God create Lucifer. Aren't we told that God knows our beginning and end? How does He know that without perfect foreknowledge? How can we trust the events foretold in the book of Revelation will happen if God's foreknowledge is somewhat muddied?

Edited November 5, 2009 by oenophile

[cman]

why is revelations thought of as future events

or even a one time event

it could have already happened

is happening and will happen