Later on in Roa 79,Wierwillie shouted out that there were fbi agents in the crowd.
How did he know or were they even there?We will never know...
Given what I have read here,about his theories,He(wierwillie)really did want us seperated
out.I really hated it when roa went to "internationale)in 78.
More control more micromanaging...........
Exactly!.......when roa was channeled to twi-hq grounds in '78, and every year to follow, the control and wayspeak escaled with each year. By circling the wagons, wierwille drew 'his people' closer to him, closer to his agendas. The WOW program was his sales campaign....and the corps program were his instructed sales force.
Remember those slogans and song lyrics, "It's good to be Home Again, been away too long"........like twi's hqtrs was OUR HOME. Yeah, riiiiight. Sure.....and twi was our family, just like Charles Manson's buzz with his followers were "The Family." Same draw.....same pitch.....same with Jim Jones.
Then......one finds out about wierwille's sex predation, alcoholism, abuse, plagairism, lies, snow-pump calling, liberty lobby connections, paranoia, butt-smacking on corps girls, sex-mentoring to martindale, etc......and the gripping realization that we were in the clutches of a sociopathic con-man.
This weekend marks the 40-year anniversary of the Manson murders. For me, it is a chilling reminder to see the shocking outcome when blind allegiance to a cult leader runs its course.
When I attended wierwille's advanced class, I was surprised to see all the conspiracy theories... ie the illuminati, the myth of the six million, the marxist minstrels, every denomination is headed by seed men etc. etc. Far removed from reading bible verses, this "advanced class" was ushering in ideologies, unsubstantiated theories, us-versus-them agendas. In this isolated class-setting, one needed to severely ante-up to be counted as a faithful advanced class grad.
Then, the corps indoctrination included aspects of MAL-pack (more abundant life in survival settings) where each corps twig was required to map out a secret destination in the event of government collapse/takeover. More so in the corps indoctrination program, the mantra "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command" was well-known and voiced by the corps coordinators. So, the "general" (wierwille) might suggest something in private...and the "soldier" was to follow orders.
Wierwille manipulated an "army" to jump at his command. Don't ask questions, don't ask how high to jump.........just jump. Thaaaaaat's riiiiiight.
IMO, it's chilling to see the parallels of Manson's followers and the extreme subtle suggestions to the corps. Manson directed his followers' actions from behind the scenes. He didn't bloody his own hands. Thankfully, wierwille didn't project violent "prophecies" to his followers.....at least, not to my knowledge. BUT...........how close to the edge did we go????
When so many blame martindale for twi's downfall, they fail to recognize wierwille's ultra-smooth conning of one's conscience.
Chilling reminders..........
:blink:
The interesting part about this is how similar this sounds to many apocalyptic stories and tales. I'm considering many in various Seventh Day Adventist groups (like the Branch Davidians) in particular. There are conspiracy theories with other Christian sects, as well. And it's not limited to religions. If you look at the Alex Jones / Jeff Rense brand of political belief, they are big-time into conspiracy theories, as well. (I am not including all 9-11 Truth conspiracy types, though. While the full extent of that theory is that Bush did it, but he did it at the behest of the Bilderbergers, I think that most 9-11 Truthers just believed that Bush did it for his own jollies, without being ordered around by shadows beyond Cheney).
I think that the common thread is that they are looking for some theory of theories that they can use to rationalize feeling powerless and small.
That Jonestown stuff at AC79 , came out on a night when the power went down, and they couldn't tape the 'regular' class, so they used it as an opportunity to supply the 'information'. I've never thought of it until just now, but I wonder if the power went 'conveniently' out. I recal them making a big deal out of using the situation to give us this 'special' stuff. In light of how Wierwille went ballistic when Joe C#@lter missed a camera cue, he seemed to not be too concerned about a major power outage.
It was staged. One long time poster has detailed how she and VPW were sitting under a tree having a casual conversation, when a certain believer walked by. Wierwille jumped up and got in his face, delivering an enraged tirade. Then, when he had dismissed the person, he sat back down, smiled, made some off the wall comment about spiritual anger and casually resumed the conversation as if nothing had happened. It was all an act. He slipped in and out of character like a walk-on in a broadway show.
This weekend marks the 40-year anniversary of the Manson murders. For me, it is a chilling reminder to see the shocking outcome when blind allegiance to a cult leader runs its course.
When I attended wierwille's advanced class, I was surprised to see all the conspiracy theories... ie the illuminati, the myth of the six million, the marxist minstrels, every denomination is headed by seed men etc. etc. Far removed from reading bible verses, this "advanced class" was ushering in ideologies, unsubstantiated theories, us-versus-them agendas. In this isolated class-setting, one needed to severely ante-up to be counted as a faithful advanced class grad.
Then, the corps indoctrination included aspects of MAL-pack (more abundant life in survival settings) where each corps twig was required to map out a secret destination in the event of government collapse/takeover. More so in the corps indoctrination program, the mantra "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command" was well-known and voiced by the corps coordinators. So, the "general" (wierwille) might suggest something in private...and the "soldier" was to follow orders.
Wierwille manipulated an "army" to jump at his command. Don't ask questions, don't ask how high to jump.........just jump. Thaaaaaat's riiiiiight.
IMO, it's chilling to see the parallels of Manson's followers and the extreme subtle suggestions to the corps. Manson directed his followers' actions from behind the scenes. He didn't bloody his own hands. Thankfully, wierwille didn't project violent "prophecies" to his followers.....at least, not to my knowledge. BUT...........how close to the edge did we go????
When so many blame martindale for twi's downfall, they fail to recognize wierwille's ultra-smooth conning of one's conscience.
Chilling reminders..........
:blink:
Reading this post I just got that "Novacaine" feeling all over(and that is decades out of TWI)
The interesting part about this is how similar this sounds to many apocalyptic stories and tales. I'm considering many in various Seventh Day Adventist groups (like the Branch Davidians) in particular. There are conspiracy theories with other Christian sects, as well. And it's not limited to religions. If you look at the Alex Jones / Jeff Rense brand of political belief, they are big-time into conspiracy theories, as well. (I am not including all 9-11 Truth conspiracy types, though. While the full extent of that theory is that Bush did it, but he did it at the behest of the Bilderbergers, I think that most 9-11 Truthers just believed that Bush did it for his own jollies, without being ordered around by shadows beyond Cheney).
I think that the common thread is that they are looking for some theory of theories that they can use to rationalize feeling powerless and small.
You mention the other conspiracy theories of other sects. I think the main difference, in the case of twi and herr vicster, they simply were spoken, and not published. One can find past issues of spotlight, various sects predictions of the worlds end, etc..
I never remember seeing anything like this in the magazine, or vic's paid newspaper publications.
The same goes for outrageous claims in classes.. the original sin, noah's supposed castration, etc. etc..
Perhaps the victoid didn't want to give the world concrete proof that he was a.. fraud?
You mention the other conspiracy theories of other sects. I think the main difference, in the case of twi and herr vicster, they simply were spoken, and not published. One can find past issues of spotlight, various sects predictions of the worlds end, etc..
I never remember seeing anything like this in the magazine, or vic's paid newspaper publications.
The same goes for outrageous claims in classes.. the original sin, noah's supposed castration, etc. etc..
Perhaps the victoid didn't want to give the world concrete proof that he was a.. fraud?
Ham, you are asking me to stretch my memory beyond the breaking point...
But weren't some of these conspiracy theories discussed in the tape from the 70s, The Current Psychological Hoax? It's been forever, but I seem to remember him going into some of them there. And I'm thinking that Jeremiah (a really old tape -- 60s or early, early 70s) had some of that content in it, as well. If I have either of those titles wrong, my apologies.
Perhaps. I'm stretching my memory as well too.. but I can't remember a single publication where one could quote portions and say "what happened to your prediction?"
I never heard the current psychological hoax tape. Maybe the Belezian group has a copy..
generally though, I think he chose these psychotic rants for noon meals and such, to more of a closed corporation.
or "privileged" teaching for advanced class and such. Same idea..
For me at least while I was in you never heard that stuff except from Corps and advanced class grads.. so I think you are correct it was voiced and only to the (More Committed) :wacko: I do believe it was changing though in early 80's as the Homosexual rants were just starting.
the people higher up the ladder than me had all walked off in disgust.
can we say how many of that 80% went off to be part of "splinter groups" of one form or another?
It was staged. One long time poster has detailed how she and VPW were sitting under a tree having a casual conversation, when a certain believer walked by. Wierwille jumped up and got in his face, delivering an enraged tirade. Then, when he had dismissed the person, he sat back down, smiled, made some off the wall comment about spiritual anger and casually resumed the conversation as if nothing had happened. It was all an act. He slipped in and out of character like a walk-on in a broadway show.
I think they taught us in WayD to do stuff like this. It's about being able to "change gears" quickly.
I'm not sure anyone (at least not me) is saying that human nature is evil. What is being said is that the true nature of the cult was evil. In other words, no one would have joined the cult if they knew they were joining something evil. Even that statement is probably not entirely true but I think is is true in the majority of cases.
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frank123lol
Later on in Roa 79,Wierwillie shouted out that there were fbi agents in the crowd.
How did he know or were they even there?We will never know...
Given what I have read here,about his theories,He(wierwillie)really did want us seperated
out.I really hated it when roa went to "internationale)in 78.
More control more micromanaging...........
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skyrider
Exactly!.......when roa was channeled to twi-hq grounds in '78, and every year to follow, the control and wayspeak escaled with each year. By circling the wagons, wierwille drew 'his people' closer to him, closer to his agendas. The WOW program was his sales campaign....and the corps program were his instructed sales force.
Remember those slogans and song lyrics, "It's good to be Home Again, been away too long"........like twi's hqtrs was OUR HOME. Yeah, riiiiight. Sure.....and twi was our family, just like Charles Manson's buzz with his followers were "The Family." Same draw.....same pitch.....same with Jim Jones.
Then......one finds out about wierwille's sex predation, alcoholism, abuse, plagairism, lies, snow-pump calling, liberty lobby connections, paranoia, butt-smacking on corps girls, sex-mentoring to martindale, etc......and the gripping realization that we were in the clutches of a sociopathic con-man.
Could it be any clearer...?????????
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markomalley
The interesting part about this is how similar this sounds to many apocalyptic stories and tales. I'm considering many in various Seventh Day Adventist groups (like the Branch Davidians) in particular. There are conspiracy theories with other Christian sects, as well. And it's not limited to religions. If you look at the Alex Jones / Jeff Rense brand of political belief, they are big-time into conspiracy theories, as well. (I am not including all 9-11 Truth conspiracy types, though. While the full extent of that theory is that Bush did it, but he did it at the behest of the Bilderbergers, I think that most 9-11 Truthers just believed that Bush did it for his own jollies, without being ordered around by shadows beyond Cheney).
I think that the common thread is that they are looking for some theory of theories that they can use to rationalize feeling powerless and small.
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leafytwiglet
I remember that .. IT was at my first ROA;... and I remember being a little frightened. Trying to figure out what was going on.
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waysider
It was staged. One long time poster has detailed how she and VPW were sitting under a tree having a casual conversation, when a certain believer walked by. Wierwille jumped up and got in his face, delivering an enraged tirade. Then, when he had dismissed the person, he sat back down, smiled, made some off the wall comment about spiritual anger and casually resumed the conversation as if nothing had happened. It was all an act. He slipped in and out of character like a walk-on in a broadway show.
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skyrider
Anyone ever notice how wierwille spent his time with the WOMEN......???
WOMEN were invited to travel on his motorcoach.
WOMEN were requested to meet wierwille on his motorcoach.
WOMEN sat with wierwille on his cushman.
Even cute WOW GIRLS got invites to be with "the mog."
MEN????? Hardly ever.
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waysider
And some of the few men who did, seem to develop a distorted memory of how wonderful life was in the good old days
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cheranne
Reading this post I just got that "Novacaine" feeling all over(and that is decades out of TWI)
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Ham
You mention the other conspiracy theories of other sects. I think the main difference, in the case of twi and herr vicster, they simply were spoken, and not published. One can find past issues of spotlight, various sects predictions of the worlds end, etc..
I never remember seeing anything like this in the magazine, or vic's paid newspaper publications.
The same goes for outrageous claims in classes.. the original sin, noah's supposed castration, etc. etc..
Perhaps the victoid didn't want to give the world concrete proof that he was a.. fraud?
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cheranne
I can't believe the simularities throughout either.
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markomalley
Ham, you are asking me to stretch my memory beyond the breaking point...
But weren't some of these conspiracy theories discussed in the tape from the 70s, The Current Psychological Hoax? It's been forever, but I seem to remember him going into some of them there. And I'm thinking that Jeremiah (a really old tape -- 60s or early, early 70s) had some of that content in it, as well. If I have either of those titles wrong, my apologies.
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Ham
Perhaps. I'm stretching my memory as well too.. but I can't remember a single publication where one could quote portions and say "what happened to your prediction?"
I never heard the current psychological hoax tape. Maybe the Belezian group has a copy..
generally though, I think he chose these psychotic rants for noon meals and such, to more of a closed corporation.
or "privileged" teaching for advanced class and such. Same idea..
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leafytwiglet
For me at least while I was in you never heard that stuff except from Corps and advanced class grads.. so I think you are correct it was voiced and only to the (More Committed) :wacko: I do believe it was changing though in early 80's as the Homosexual rants were just starting.
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cheranne
Me too. I was looking for TRUTH.
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WordWolf
So was I. Bolshevik's experience of twi was different from ours.
vpw intentionally targeted the young of the counter-culture movement,
partly because they were young and naive, partly because of their exposure to free sex.
By marketing his stuff as counter-culture, he appealed to their anti-establishment bent.
Doesn't mean every kid twi appealed to at the time joined for that reason, or that everyone
joined as kids or for those reasons even if they WERE kids.
I'm pretty confident vpw would have preferred never to have seen people like me join up.
Smart enough to connect the dots if I can see the dots, unable to be bought off,
and good enough at Bible recitation to climb the ladder to where I'd be able to see and
connect the dots, that's a formula for vpw's cadre being exposed.
But he was already dead when I'd first heard of him, so he had little say about me joining.
And I wasn't high enough up the ladder for lcm to have heard of me when he drew his line in
the sand in '89, which was error-ridden enough to induce me to leave. Ironically, if I'd
stayed, I would have been a lot higher up the ladder all of a sudden- since 80% or more of
the people higher up the ladder than me had all walked off in disgust.
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Bolshevik
can we say how many of that 80% went off to be part of "splinter groups" of one form or another?
I think they taught us in WayD to do stuff like this. It's about being able to "change gears" quickly.
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Bolshevik
human nature?
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waysider
evil nature. Then again-----
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GarthP2000
Contrary to Calvinist and other fundy dogma, human nature does not equal evil nature.
I dropped that outdated, outmoded, and downright controlling steaming pile of excrement a l-o-n-g time ago.
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waysider
I'm not sure anyone (at least not me) is saying that human nature is evil. What is being said is that the true nature of the cult was evil. In other words, no one would have joined the cult if they knew they were joining something evil. Even that statement is probably not entirely true but I think is is true in the majority of cases.
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